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Post by snow on Sept 6, 2015 12:14:49 GMT -5
Has anyone read "When God Becomes a Drug" by Father Leo Booth? Basic premise, anything can become "addicted to" - some have been mentioned in this thread, alcohol, drugs, sugar, food, sex, etc. When it is "god" sufferers become extreme, always having to do or be "more" usually for the praise of religious athorities. I think they have been refered to as "syncophants" on TMB. P.S. Spell check is not working and I can't! Anything can be taken to an extreme I suppose. Kim Davis, the Kentucky Clerk would be a good example of addiction to God I think. You can take it too far and then it becomes harmful.
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Post by bitterbetty on Sept 6, 2015 14:28:40 GMT -5
The most glaring flaw that I see in your post is the mistaken idea that the recovering alcoholic "conquers it" by tapping into some well of inner strength. No, a recovering alcoholic has come to realize that he never has and never will be able "conquer" alcohol. In other words, he surrenders. "I will not get back into the ring...I have been beaten, and if I choose to get back into the ring, I will get beaten again." A person that can say this did not conquer addiction. Its always there, waiting. All he has done is given himself a reprieve. Is that weakness? Maybe in some folks eyes it is. Its unconditional surrender, one day at a time. I can certainly understand wally's assertion about being honest and facing things...honesty is required. Denial can come to the surface all too easily. It does take courage to face the truth. But as to the mentality of 'conquering': that is where the difference lays, I guess. The addict likely comes to a place where they realize that conquering their addiction with some deep inner strength of their own just isn't working. It's not in them to overcome by their own strength...they need something more than their self...a higher power if you will...and yes, a surrender; unconditional; no more bargaining.
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Post by bitterbetty on Sept 6, 2015 14:47:22 GMT -5
do you think having an addiction is a sign of being "strong"? Actually sometimes they are much stronger than most people. If you understand mental illness at all you will understand the huge impact it has on lives. Before diagnosis and even after diagnosis, these people deal with much than a normal person can even dream of dealing with. They may self medicate to feel better, but do you have any concept of how awful they need to be feeling to have to do that? I have a pretty good understanding of addictions working with Corrections Canada in a halfway house and in the Community Service Division of John Howard Society. I also have personal experience with taking drugs that are addictive that were prescribed for my pain management. While I never became psychologically addicted I know what it's like to come off of one and go through the physiological withdrawal. It's not pretty and it takes an incredibly strong person mentally to do it. Just how much more difficult would it be for someone who was also dependent on it psychologically? I can't imagine actually. The physiological withdrawal was brutal enough. So do I think those with mental illnesses are strong? Oh yes! The desperation they must feel and still choose to stay alive! It must be enormous strength. It would be so much easier just to end it all then to go through the pain some tolerate daily. I have a nephew that is bi polar and we are quite close so he talks to me about it a lot. He is struggling and is still refusing medication but also knows he can't use because he is on day parole and it is a condition of his parole. I am his sounding board so I hear the down and out along with the euphoric phases and I have no end of respect for him and what he goes through all the time. So you tell me Wally, are they weak or stronger than you could ever imagine? I totally agree snow. We do not realize the 'strength' it takes for a person to live with a mental malady daily...they are often written off as being 'weak'. But if most of us had lived through what they live/lived through, we might feel differently about it. Their 'victories' are not always appreciated. A 'small victory' in someone else's eyes can be a huge victory in another's. "Baby steps" is a fairly common term that gets thrown around. But what might seem like a baby step to one person may be quite a stride to the one taking that step. The more I think about 'baby steps', the more I think they are not baby steps at all, really. We just don't always know all the reasons or pain a person has endured that might lead them to turning to a substance to self medicate. If a person can get through most of their life not being subjected to such, great. But to look on another with an attitude of "What's you problem? Why can't you just deal with it?", is being judgmental-they simply do not understand. One thing I'd like to point out as well is that people don't always just turn to chemical substances to 'feel better'. There is a whole magnitude of human behavior that can occur-people seeking out ways to feel better. Some turn to relationship addiction. Some are addicted to money. Some to gambling. Some to food. Some to pornography. Some to material things. Some to social media. Some people are obsessed and addiction to looking young-and they do some pretty drastic things. Plastic surgery is becoming more and more common among the type of people it was not common to. Addictions are not just about drugs. Their is something in our composition that gives us rewards/pleasure and something in us that wants to avoid unpleasant feelings. People turn to 'things' that make them feel good, even if it's only temporary or fleeting. The 'key' is find things that bring lasting joy and satisfaction, but that's not always as easy as it seems.
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Post by snow on Sept 6, 2015 14:53:34 GMT -5
Actually sometimes they are much stronger than most people. If you understand mental illness at all you will understand the huge impact it has on lives. Before diagnosis and even after diagnosis, these people deal with much than a normal person can even dream of dealing with. They may self medicate to feel better, but do you have any concept of how awful they need to be feeling to have to do that? I have a pretty good understanding of addictions working with Corrections Canada in a halfway house and in the Community Service Division of John Howard Society. I also have personal experience with taking drugs that are addictive that were prescribed for my pain management. While I never became psychologically addicted I know what it's like to come off of one and go through the physiological withdrawal. It's not pretty and it takes an incredibly strong person mentally to do it. Just how much more difficult would it be for someone who was also dependent on it psychologically? I can't imagine actually. The physiological withdrawal was brutal enough. So do I think those with mental illnesses are strong? Oh yes! The desperation they must feel and still choose to stay alive! It must be enormous strength. It would be so much easier just to end it all then to go through the pain some tolerate daily. I have a nephew that is bi polar and we are quite close so he talks to me about it a lot. He is struggling and is still refusing medication but also knows he can't use because he is on day parole and it is a condition of his parole. I am his sounding board so I hear the down and out along with the euphoric phases and I have no end of respect for him and what he goes through all the time. So you tell me Wally, are they weak or stronger than you could ever imagine? I totally agree snow. We do not realize the 'strength' it takes for a person to live with a mental malady daily...they are often written off as being 'weak'. But if most of us had lived through what they live/lived through, we might feel differently about it. Their 'victories' are not always appreciated. A 'small victory' in someone else's eyes can be a huge victory in another's. "Baby steps" is a fairly common term that gets thrown around. But what might seem like a baby step to one person may be quite a stride to the one taking that step. The more I think about 'baby steps', the more I think they are not baby steps at all, really. Each step in a more healthy direction is a huge step. We just don't always know all the reasons or pain a person has endured that might lead them to turning to a substance to self medicate. If a person can get through most of their life not being subjected to such, great. But to look on another with an attitude of "What's you problem? Why can't you just deal with it?", is being judgmental-they simply do not understand. One thing I'd like to point out as well is that people don't always just turn to chemical substances to 'feel better'. There is a whole magnitude of human behavior that can occur-people seeking out ways to feel better. Some turn to relationship addiction. Some are addicted to money. Some to gambling. Some to food. Some to pornography. Some to social media. Some people are obsessed and addiction to looking young-and they do some pretty drastic things. Plastic surgery is becoming more and more common among the type of people it was not common to. Addictions are not just about drugs. Totally true, your comment about addictions not being just about drugs. When we are in pain we will do what ever it takes to make it bearable. These can be viewed as addictions also. The reason why some of the things you mention aren't seen as addictions is because they might not be as noticeably negative. We see the negatives of addictions to alcohol, drugs and gambling more easily for obvious reasons. But other addictions aren't as noticeably negative. They may be interfering in a person's life, but not to the degree they do if it was a drug, alcohol, or losing your life savings gambling.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2015 15:36:13 GMT -5
I am a case management aid I am surrounded by case managers, counselors, psychiatrists, and psychologists I have read all their reports been to numerous meetings I have even handled a number of cases myself including mentally ill and addiction cases and in EVERY case that I have read about talked about or seen for myself the ones who have some success(very few) are the ones that faced up to the condition they were in reached deep down inside of themselves and conquered it. case managers have said it the doctors have said it it is without question. is it easy? nope are there ups and downs? yep but It has been done... The most successful counselors in alcoholism treatment are alcoholics in recovery themselves. Consider yourself fortunate if you are neither. There, but for the grace...etc. The most glaring flaw that I see in your post is the mistaken idea that the recovering alcoholic "conquers it" by tapping into some well of inner strength. No, a recovering alcoholic has come to realize that he never has and never will be able "conquer" alcohol. In other words, he surrenders. "I will not get back into the ring...I have been beaten, and if I choose to get back into the ring, I will get beaten again." A person that can say this did not conquer addiction. Its always there, waiting. All he has done is given himself a reprieve. Is that weakness? Maybe in some folks eyes it is. Its unconditional surrender, one day at a time. I know of what I speak, 22 years now, one day at a time... If my admitting my weakness has helped you feel stronger then so be it....be happy! we must have a different definition of conquering and addiction then because in my experience that doesn't mean going back to your old ways once you've "conquered it"....
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Post by bitterbetty on Sept 6, 2015 15:42:45 GMT -5
Totally true, your comment about addictions not being just about drugs. When we are in pain we will do what ever it takes to make it bearable. These can be viewed as addictions also. The reason why some of the things you mention aren't seen as addictions is because they might not be as noticeably negative. We see the negatives of addictions to alcohol, drugs and gambling more easily for obvious reasons. But other addictions aren't as noticeably negative. They may be interfering in a person's life, but not to the degree they do if it was a drug, alcohol, or losing your life savings gambling. It's a very interesting study of human behavior, really-when you think about how the brain is "activated" when there is pleasure/reward. Also, how the brain can be AFFECTED when there are unpleasant things, pain, trauma, grief, stress (both acute and chronic). Well, the role that stress plays on our psyche is HUGE. We often think of chronic stress as it relates to a stressful job you go to every day. But, there are many other ways in which a person lives with chronic stress. It could just be living with someone who is most always anxious and/or uptight. Again, I think of children who are brought up in environments they have to face everyday that put stress on them. As kids, they probably don't IDENTIFY it as stress. But, they feel it none-the-less. Some parents can put an awful lot of stress and pressure on their kids and they think they are doing the right thing; pushing them to excel, forcing them, etc. Or, just expecting them to be perfect. Really, it is most likely the parent's own insecurity that makes them want to produce children they are proud of and in a way live vicariously through the child-perhaps the child can accomplish things they wished they had. Maybe a large degree of chronic stress a child lives with everyday is simply living in a home that lacks peace. Or where there is constant strife. My husband came from one of those homes. They moved a lot. Dad was gone a lot. When their dad WAS home there was constant friction between the mom and dad. Mom was anxious plus she had her own issues from her childhood that were never really resolved. And so it goes... Living with chronic pain is also living with chronic stress.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2015 15:47:56 GMT -5
do you think having an addiction is a sign of being "strong"? Actually sometimes they are much stronger than most people. If you understand mental illness at all you will understand the huge impact it has on lives. Before diagnosis and even after diagnosis, these people deal with much than a normal person can even dream of dealing with. They may self medicate to feel better, but do you have any concept of how awful they need to be feeling to have to do that? I have a pretty good understanding of addictions working with Corrections Canada in a halfway house and in the Community Service Division of John Howard Society. I also have personal experience with taking drugs that are addictive that were prescribed for my pain management. While I never became psychologically addicted I know what it's like to come off of one and go through the physiological withdrawal. It's not pretty and it takes an incredibly strong person mentally to do it. Just how much more difficult would it be for someone who was also dependent on it psychologically? I can't imagine actually. The physiological withdrawal was brutal enough. So do I think those with mental illnesses are strong? Oh yes! The desperation they must feel and still choose to stay alive! It must be enormous strength. It would be so much easier just to end it all then to go through the pain some tolerate daily. I have a nephew that is bi polar and we are quite close so he talks to me about it a lot. He is struggling and is still refusing medication but also knows he can't use because he is on day parole and it is a condition of his parole. I am his sounding board so I hear the down and out along with the euphoric phases and I have no end of respect for him and what he goes through all the time. So you tell me Wally, are they weak or stronger than you could ever imagine? I've no doubt that some who faces their condition can BECOME strong but I've never heard of having an addiction is a sign of being strong there are so many disadvantages to being an addict. I've never heard refusing your medication as being a sign of strength either.
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Post by bitterbetty on Sept 6, 2015 16:03:03 GMT -5
there are so many disadvantages to being an addict. Yes, I agree. One of the greatest disadvantages is that while a person is addicted, there is not true liberty. They are yoked to their addiction. They are in a sense married to their addiction. They likely are constantly caught up in how to get that next 'fix' so that they can experience pleasure (again), even if it's only temporary. They will engage in risky behavior to acheive that. But there are other risky behaviors aside from chemical substance abuse that don't seem to carry near the amount of stigma and are not considered as much of a failing or weakness. I think going to extremes in anything can have adverse effects. My mother was never a chemical substance abuser. But she still had issues and dealt with them in different ways. May not be viewed as being as destructive, but neither were they always healthy. There was an imbalance, I guess you could say. She sought pleasure/reward. And the way in which she did it was not always the best option for her marriage, home or health.
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Post by blacksheep on Sept 6, 2015 16:30:20 GMT -5
The most successful counselors in alcoholism treatment are alcoholics in recovery themselves. Consider yourself fortunate if you are neither. There, but for the grace...etc. The most glaring flaw that I see in your post is the mistaken idea that the recovering alcoholic "conquers it" by tapping into some well of inner strength. No, a recovering alcoholic has come to realize that he never has and never will be able "conquer" alcohol. In other words, he surrenders. "I will not get back into the ring...I have been beaten, and if I choose to get back into the ring, I will get beaten again." A person that can say this did not conquer addiction. Its always there, waiting. All he has done is given himself a reprieve. Is that weakness? Maybe in some folks eyes it is. Its unconditional surrender, one day at a time. I know of what I speak, 22 years now, one day at a time... If my admitting my weakness has helped you feel stronger then so be it....be happy! we must have a different definition of conquering and addiction then because in my experience that doesn't mean going back to your old ways once you've "conquered it".... Yes, it seems clear that you don't grasp the concept that a recovering alcoholic never "conquers" alcohol. He is alcoholic for life, whether he drinks or not. It is not important that you do understand this if you are not an alcoholic yourself or you are not working in an alcohol treatment program. But if you work with alcoholics in a recovery setting, it is important that you know they are not "cured". Not in this lifetime. They just learn to live a full life without drinking, knowing that they are just one drink away from.....disaster. A knowledgeable counselor, therapist, or psychologist knows better than to use the word "conquered".
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 6, 2015 16:55:56 GMT -5
The most glaring flaw that I see in your post is the mistaken idea that the recovering alcoholic "conquers it" by tapping into some well of inner strength. No, a recovering alcoholic has come to realize that he never has and never will be able "conquer" alcohol. In other words, he surrenders. "I will not get back into the ring...I have been beaten, and if I choose to get back into the ring, I will get beaten again." A person that can say this did not conquer addiction. Its always there, waiting. All he has done is given himself a reprieve. Is that weakness? Maybe in some folks eyes it is. Its unconditional surrender, one day at a time. I can certainly understand wally's assertion about being honest and facing things...honesty is required. Denial can come to the surface all too easily. It does take courage to face the truth. But as to the mentality of 'conquering': that is where the difference lays, I guess. The addict likely comes to a place where they realize that conquering their addiction with some deep inner strength of their own just isn't working. It's not in them to overcome by their own strength...they need something more than their self...a higher power if you will...and yes, a surrender; unconditional; no more bargaining. No, I do not see it as-"they need something more than their self...a higher power if you will.".. I believe that is akin to what Blacksheep posted.
"A recovering alcoholic has come to realize that he never has and never will be able "conquer" alcohol. In other words, he surrenders. "I will not get back into the ring...I have been beaten, and if I choose to get back into the ring, I will get beaten again." A person that can say this did not conquer addiction."
It is a matter of themselves coming to that conclusion; -not the results of a higher power.
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Post by kurtzphil69 on Sept 6, 2015 16:57:06 GMT -5
there are so many disadvantages to being an addict. Yes, I agree. One of the greatest disadvantages is that while a person is addicted, there is not true liberty. They are yoked to their addiction. They are in a sense married to their addiction. They likely are constantly caught up in how to get that next 'fix' so that they can experience pleasure (again), even if it's only temporary. They will engage in risky behavior to acheive that. But there are other risky behaviors aside from chemical substance abuse that don't seem to carry near the amount of stigma and are not considered as much of a failing or weakness. I think going to extremes in anything can have adverse effects. Don't know that 'disadvantage' is even the right word for it. Most recovering addicts don't describe it that way. "I was at a disadvantage..." I think it is more serious than that.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2015 18:01:51 GMT -5
we must have a different definition of conquering and addiction then because in my experience that doesn't mean going back to your old ways once you've "conquered it".... Yes, it seems clear that you don't grasp the concept that a recovering alcoholic never "conquers" alcohol. He is alcoholic for life, whether he drinks or not. It is not important that you do understand this if you are not an alcoholic yourself or you are not working in an alcohol treatment program. But if you work with alcoholics in a recovery setting, it is important that you know they are not "cured". Not in this lifetime. They just learn to live a full life without drinking, knowing that they are just one drink away from.....disaster. A knowledgeable counselor, therapist, or psychologist knows better than to use the word "conquered". you can continue to believe what you want I know from personal experience a different conclusion and hey I haven't been fired yet nor any of my colleagues...
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 6, 2015 18:36:03 GMT -5
Has anyone read "When God Becomes a Drug" by Father Leo Booth? Basic premise, anything can become "addicted to" - some have been mentioned in this thread, alcohol, drugs, sugar, food, sex, etc. When it is "god" sufferers become extreme, always having to do or be "more" usually for the praise of religious athorities. I think they have been refered to as "syncophants" on TMB. P.S. Spell check is not working and I can't! Anything can be taken to an extreme I suppose. Kim Davis, the Kentucky Clerk would be a good example of addiction to God I think. You can take it too far and then it becomes harmful. This book also sounds interesting, When Religion is an Addiction, by Robert N. Minor "An eye-opening and hard-hitting work, When Religion Is an Addiction not only puts the political activities of the right-wing in a new perspective, but explains how liberal responses have often enabled religious addiction to thrive.
Dr. Minor applies contemporary understandings of addictions to the extreme Christian right-wing in the United States and concludes that for them religion is functioning as a process addiction. Crucial to the addictiveness of such religion is its obsession with human depravity, the ultimate expression of low self-worth.
The emotional "high" of righteousness functions to eliminate the addicts' sense of personal responsibility for their teachings, their actions, and their actions' painful toll on other human beings.
Religious addiction, he observes, often covers sexual addictions. And the current right-wing obsession with political campaigns and victories is the even stronger fix the addiction demands to cover growing fears of failure.
Too often the responses of liberals have been like those of enablers in an addict's family who through their reactions prevent the addict from hitting bottom. Arguing about religion, for example, only promotes the addiction. I n the final chapter Dr. Minor reveals a non-enabling way to respond to those people for whom religion functions as an addiction. One person on this board came immediately to my mind! His "obsession with human depravity," at least what HE calls "depravity! " He can't seem to see a virtue of the advancements of rights for all people, -gay rights, -divorce rights, -mostly issues dealing with sexuality.
He rather views it as the "world going to Hell in a hand-basket."
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Post by Roselyn T on Sept 6, 2015 18:59:49 GMT -5
I am a case management aid I am surrounded by case managers, counselors, psychiatrists, and psychologists I have read all their reports been to numerous meetings I have even handled a number of cases myself including mentally ill and addiction cases and in EVERY case that I have read about talked about or seen for myself the ones who have some success(very few) are the ones that faced up to the condition they were in reached deep down inside of themselves and conquered it. case managers have said it the doctors have said it it is without question. is it easy? nope are there ups and downs? yep but It has been done... The most successful counselors in alcoholism treatment are alcoholics in recovery themselves. Consider yourself fortunate if you are neither. There, but for the grace...etc. The most glaring flaw that I see in your post is the mistaken idea that the recovering alcoholic "conquers it" by tapping into some well of inner strength. No, a recovering alcoholic has come to realize that he never has and never will be able "conquer" alcohol. In other words, he surrenders. "I will not get back into the ring...I have been beaten, and if I choose to get back into the ring, I will get beaten again." A person that can say this did not conquer addiction. Its always there, waiting. All he has done is given himself a reprieve. Is that weakness? Maybe in some folks eyes it is. Its unconditional surrender, one day at a time. I know of what I speak, 22 years now, one day at a time... If my admitting my weakness has helped you feel stronger then so be it....be happy! Thank you blacksheep, for sharing your experience. Thank you for explaining this.
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 6, 2015 19:04:52 GMT -5
Yes, it seems clear that you don't grasp the concept that a recovering alcoholic never "conquers" alcohol. He is alcoholic for life, whether he drinks or not. It is not important that you do understand this if you are not an alcoholic yourself or you are not working in an alcohol treatment program. But if you work with alcoholics in a recovery setting, it is important that you know they are not "cured". Not in this lifetime. They just learn to live a full life without drinking, knowing that they are just one drink away from.....disaster. A knowledgeable counselor, therapist, or psychologist knows better than to use the word "conquered". you can continue to believe what you want I know from personal experience a different conclusion and hey I haven't been fired yet nor any of my colleagues... I think your "personal experience" has not taught you much compassion based on the accusational terms you use toward patients.
I also notice that you have never answered my question concerning the type of the group that you are working for. Is it a Christian religious counseling group? We have quite a few of those around here.
You said yourself that you had "very few" successes, -maybe you should re-consider your methods.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2015 19:14:28 GMT -5
you can continue to believe what you want I know from personal experience a different conclusion and hey I haven't been fired yet nor any of my colleagues... I think your "personal experience" has not taught you much compassion based on the accusational terms you use toward patients.
I also notice that you have never answered my question concerning the type of the group that you are working for. Is it a Christian religious counseling group? We have quite a few of those around here.
You said yourself that you had "very few" successes, -maybe you should re-consider your methods.its a secular mental health group
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Post by bitterbetty on Sept 6, 2015 20:00:25 GMT -5
I think your "personal experience" has not taught you much compassion based on the accusational terms you use toward patients.
I also notice that you have never answered my question concerning the type of the group that you are working for. Is it a Christian religious counseling group? We have quite a few of those around here.
You said yourself that you had "very few" successes, -maybe you should re-consider your methods. its a secular mental health group What kind of training have you had, Wally? On the job, plus classes and workshops? Reading/research? What about your personal life? Have you yourself battled with addiction or mental illness? What do you consider the best way for a person to 'conquer' these ills? I'm just curious. You have states that 'very few' are success stories. In the ones you know that are, what can you identify that worked for them? Please be as specific as possible. Thanks.
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Post by bitterbetty on Sept 6, 2015 20:02:24 GMT -5
Yes, I agree. One of the greatest disadvantages is that while a person is addicted, there is not true liberty. They are yoked to their addiction. They are in a sense married to their addiction. They likely are constantly caught up in how to get that next 'fix' so that they can experience pleasure (again), even if it's only temporary. They will engage in risky behavior to acheive that. But there are other risky behaviors aside from chemical substance abuse that don't seem to carry near the amount of stigma and are not considered as much of a failing or weakness. I think going to extremes in anything can have adverse effects. Don't know that 'disadvantage' is even the right word for it. Most recovering addicts don't describe it that way. "I was at a disadvantage..." I think it is more serious than that. More like: "I was on a path of destruction"?
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Post by kurtzphil69 on Sept 6, 2015 21:14:57 GMT -5
Think of the brain. Think of it as an organ. Think about what it is like when a body part is broken or an organ in the body is diseased or malfunctioning. Think about what it is like to have a broken, diseased mind.
Haven't understood for a very long time why it is people have the inclination to be ashamed when their mind is 'broken'. But they do, they are. Also, because of the shame that could be attached-I believe it feeds into denial about the problem. Who me? "I'm not crazy!" It's like a reflex, almost. What doesn't help is the REACTION(s) and attitudes of people towards those who are mentally ill.
The brain is an organ of the human anatomy, like any other organ. It might be harder to do tests on and those tests are less definitive, and it might be more complex, but it is still an organ.
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Post by kurtzphil69 on Sept 6, 2015 21:30:36 GMT -5
A grim reality. There just doesn't seem to be enough resources and answers about what to do with the mentally ill. It's just not like going and getting a surgery done on your hip. You recover, you heal, in most cases, barring serious post-op complications. Treating mental illness is usually a much longer process. Here is an article I found interesting: www.postandcourier.com/article/20131026/PC16/131029431
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2015 21:55:47 GMT -5
its a secular mental health group What kind of training have you had, Wally? On the job, plus classes and workshops? Reading/research? What about your personal life? Have you yourself battled with addiction or mental illness? What do you consider the best way for a person to 'conquer' these ills? I'm just curious. You have states that 'very few' are success stories. In the ones you know that are, what can you identify that worked for them? Please be as specific as possible. Thanks. I don't have a four year degree like a case manager I have an associates in business degree, on the job training and classes in case management theory etc...the requirements for a case management aid are a high school diploma...I mainly do administrative work but I do intake interviews and such when the case manager is not available. I type up all the reports made by case managers and doctors and counselors. I am in numerous meetings for treatment plans. I also on occasion do things like take clients to appointments to the store or the mall or the mental health club we have. I make assessments on how they are doing by how they interact with me and others how they are taking care of themselves and if they are taking their meds.
its really very simple but hard to do a person has to face their illness/disability come in get on a medicine regime(if necessary) and a counseling program sometimes support groups are recommended that's what works. we also have a help line that clients can use...
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 6, 2015 23:05:00 GMT -5
What kind of training have you had, Wally? On the job, plus classes and workshops? Reading/research? What about your personal life? Have you yourself battled with addiction or mental illness? What do you consider the best way for a person to 'conquer' these ills? I'm just curious. You have states that 'very few' are success stories. In the ones you know that are, what can you identify that worked for them? Please be as specific as possible. Thanks. I don't have a four year degree like a case manager I have an associates in business degree, on the job training and classes in case management theory etc...the requirements for a case management aid are a high school diploma...I mainly do administrative work but I do intake interviews and such when the case manager is not available.
I type up all the reports made by case managers and doctors and counselors.
I am in numerous meetings for treatment plans.
I also on occasion do things like take clients to appointments to the store or the mall or the mental health club we have.
I make assessments on how they are doing by how they interact with me and others how they are taking care of themselves and if they are taking their meds.
its really very simple but hard to do a person has to face their illness/disability come in get on a medicine regime(if necessary) and a counseling program sometimes support groups are recommended that's what works. we also have a help line that clients can use...
That rather puts a different light on your abilities in the mental health profession.
Having a "business degree," & "mainly do administrative work," hardly qualifies one for counseling in a mental health profession and you HAD stated, "I have even handled a number of cases myself including mentally ill and addiction cases."
If that is true, than I think your mental health group may need to be investigated as to whether they are following proper guidelines, especially if they are receiving Federal remuneration.
As a nurse who didn't even specialize in the field mental health, -yet I had more training than a high school diploma...
My training was very basic & a long time ago when we had NO medications for the problems concerning mental disease, but we certainly were aware that mental illness was a disease and patients weren't going to be cured by "pulling up their socks!"
I don't think anyone here is denying that patients need to stay on their medications, but the terms you keep using like "facing their illness/disability" etc. is putting the onus on the patient!
Ever think that it might be you who is putting the blame on the patient for your own failures?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2015 23:22:08 GMT -5
I don't have a four year degree like a case manager I have an associates in business degree, on the job training and classes in case management theory etc...the requirements for a case management aid are a high school diploma...I mainly do administrative work but I do intake interviews and such when the case manager is not available.
I type up all the reports made by case managers and doctors and counselors.
I am in numerous meetings for treatment plans.
I also on occasion do things like take clients to appointments to the store or the mall or the mental health club we have.
I make assessments on how they are doing by how they interact with me and others how they are taking care of themselves and if they are taking their meds.
its really very simple but hard to do a person has to face their illness/disability come in get on a medicine regime(if necessary) and a counseling program sometimes support groups are recommended that's what works. we also have a help line that clients can use...
That rather puts a different light on your abilities in the mental health profession.
Having a "business degree," & "mainly do administrative work," hardly qualifies one for counseling in a mental health profession and you HAD stated, "I have even handled a number of cases myself including mentally ill and addiction cases."
If that is true, than I think your mental health group may need to be investigated as to whether they are following proper guidelines, especially if they are receiving Federal remuneration.
As a nurse who didn't even specialize in the field mental health, -yet I had more training than a high school diploma...
My training was very basic & a long time ago when we had NO medications for the problems concerning mental disease, but we certainly were aware that mental illness was a disease and patients weren't going to be cured by "pulling up their socks!"
I don't think anyone here is denying that patients need to stay on their medications, but the terms you keep using like "facing their illness/disability" etc. is putting the onus on the patient!
Ever think that it might be you who is putting the blame on the patient for your own failures?
I never claimed to be a counselor and I have handle numbers of cases of intakes both mental and addiction I have handled their files and read every report I've partaken in numerous meeting about the clients I've interacted with said clients on a personal and professional level. I've done it for 20 years to the satisfaction of my employers and colleagues my record stands for itself...
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Post by Roselyn T on Sept 6, 2015 23:31:41 GMT -5
That rather puts a different light on your abilities in the mental health profession.
Having a "business degree," & "mainly do administrative work," hardly qualifies one for counseling in a mental health profession and you HAD stated, "I have even handled a number of cases myself including mentally ill and addiction cases."
If that is true, than I think your mental health group may need to be investigated as to whether they are following proper guidelines, especially if they are receiving Federal remuneration.
As a nurse who didn't even specialize in the field mental health, -yet I had more training than a high school diploma...
My training was very basic & a long time ago when we had NO medications for the problems concerning mental disease, but we certainly were aware that mental illness was a disease and patients weren't going to be cured by "pulling up their socks!"
I don't think anyone here is denying that patients need to stay on their medications, but the terms you keep using like "facing their illness/disability" etc. is putting the onus on the patient!
Ever think that it might be you who is putting the blame on the patient for your own failures?
I never claimed to be a counselor and I have handle numbers of cases of intakes both mental and addiction I have handled their files and read every report I've partaken in numerous meeting about the clients I've interacted with said clients on a personal and professional level. I've done it for 20 years to the satisfaction of my employers and colleagues my record stands for itself... But you have never lived with alcoholic, or are not an alcoholic.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2015 23:34:52 GMT -5
I never claimed to be a counselor and I have handle numbers of cases of intakes both mental and addiction I have handled their files and read every report I've partaken in numerous meeting about the clients I've interacted with said clients on a personal and professional level. I've done it for 20 years to the satisfaction of my employers and colleagues my record stands for itself... But you have never lived with alcoholic, or are not an alcoholic. yes my father was an alcoholic lived with him for 13 years while in said condition...
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 6, 2015 23:37:36 GMT -5
That rather puts a different light on your abilities in the mental health profession.
Having a "business degree," & "mainly do administrative work," hardly qualifies one for counseling in a mental health profession and you HAD stated, "I have even handled a number of cases myself including mentally ill and addiction cases."
If that is true, than I think your mental health group may need to be investigated as to whether they are following proper guidelines, especially if they are receiving Federal remuneration.
As a nurse who didn't even specialize in the field mental health, -yet I had more training than a high school diploma...
My training was very basic & a long time ago when we had NO medications for the problems concerning mental disease, but we certainly were aware that mental illness was a disease and patients weren't going to be cured by "pulling up their socks!"
I don't think anyone here is denying that patients need to stay on their medications, but the terms you keep using like "facing their illness/disability" etc. is putting the onus on the patient!
Ever think that it might be you who is putting the blame on the patient for your own failures?
I never claimed to be a counselor and I have handle numbers of cases of intakes both mental and addiction I have handled their files and read every report I've partaken in numerous meeting about the clients I've interacted with said clients on a personal and professional level. I've done it for 20 years to the satisfaction of my employers and colleagues my record stands for itself... Then why did you say this, Wally? "I have even handled a number of cases myself including mentally ill and addiction cases."
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Post by Roselyn T on Sept 6, 2015 23:39:18 GMT -5
Did you see your father as weak ?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2015 23:42:35 GMT -5
I never claimed to be a counselor and I have handle numbers of cases of intakes both mental and addiction I have handled their files and read every report I've partaken in numerous meeting about the clients I've interacted with said clients on a personal and professional level. I've done it for 20 years to the satisfaction of my employers and colleagues my record stands for itself... Then why did you say this, Wally? "I have even handled a number of cases myself including mentally ill and addiction cases."
I did their intakes...both mentally ill and addictions...why am I repeating myself don't you know how to read?
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