|
Post by fred on Sept 7, 2015 17:35:31 GMT -5
I don't understand what you are saying here fixit - could you please explain. There are 1.2 billion Catholics who would not be exactly "grace alone" Christians. 225-300 million Eastern Orthodox. 86 million Oriental orthodox Of the 800 million Protestants some will not be "grace alone" folks, so I think it would be safe to say that most Christians would not rely on grace alone. Thank you fixit, that's sad.
|
|
|
Post by fred on Sept 7, 2015 19:49:37 GMT -5
Round and round the trimulberry bush. Ha ha ha that made me laugh! Anyway I asked in the meeting, and apparently Edward Cooney didn't believe Jesus was God, and I know he's not highly thought of by some people here. But, seeing as he was an early worker, I'm sure he believed as the others did. Which is, one God, his son Christ Jesus, and the holy spirit. All separate but one in heart and mind. And we are at one with them in the spirit when we follow Jesus and give God our heart! I'm reminded of the following quote: I would like to see more of Cooney's preaching and letters before I could come to a conclusion about his beliefs about Jesus. Cooney of course was adamant that this was no new religion - what he failed to foresee was that it would become a new denomination. I believe that one of the reasons he had to leave was that he could see the hand of man encroaching on the "faith once delivered to the Saints", and he was right that the traditions of man were beginning to become important.
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Sept 7, 2015 20:18:20 GMT -5
The key to understanding the word "God" in the bible is to understand the word "Elohim". There's one Almighty God the father, but Elohim is not unique to him. You need to focus on Isaiah 9:6 and Jeremiah 32:18 and work out whether Jesus is given the name Jehovah in the OT. Trinitarians ignore how the Jews understood OT references to God, yet use what the Jews understood in the NT about God to support their theology.
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Sept 7, 2015 21:09:06 GMT -5
You need to study the times that Christ is referred to as Jehovah - the name of God - in the OT. Don't get too caught up on the word Elohim. What Hebrew word is translated "Jehovah"?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2015 22:12:00 GMT -5
Fixit is absolutely correct With what he posted above. The JW's will agree with you wholeheartedly. See my other post on the issue. And in this issue the JWs are correct. I have no problem admitting that.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2015 22:21:31 GMT -5
The next round of. 'round and round the trimullberry bush'? Sorry I'll go with Jesus Christ the Son of God,the Bible writers knew it was correct 46x, so did the early workers, they left trinity talk with the lifeless churches they bravely & courageously stepped of amidst much persecution and opposition. You're a Senior worker and you're to teach others who Jesus is and it seems you don't know who he really is... This is VERY sad. You're NOT a rookie or a baby worker, review... You should KNOW who are the Godhead by NOW!Nathan, ihe's not a rookie, nor is he a sell-out. He clearly knows what he's talking about. The workers in our own area don't do trinity speak.
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Sept 8, 2015 0:40:08 GMT -5
You're a Senior worker and you're to teach others who Jesus is and it seems you don't know who he really is... This is VERY sad. You're NOT a rookie or a baby worker, review... You should KNOW who are the Godhead by NOW! Nathan, ihe's not a rookie, nor is he a sell-out. He clearly knows what he's talking about. The workers in our own area don't do trinity speak. I'm glad Review is holding the line against man-made Trinitarian mumbo jumbo. I believe it was part of the religious theory that early F&W left behind. Sam Jones wrote: 'Twas life I got, not theory: His voice I did obey And entered in by Jesus, God's only way.
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Sept 8, 2015 0:56:23 GMT -5
Amen, Ross... Review and all workers and the friends worship Godhead= Father, Son, and Holy Spirit every Sunday... They believe the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are Divine but they despised the RCC terminology "Trinity" which describe the Godhead beautifully... Review believes the Father, Christ/Son and Holy Spirit are Divine but Jesus is NOT God. Jesus is the Son of God but he is NOT God. Talking about ignorance is BLISS. You might be more comfortable sitting in an Anglican/Episcopal pew with Ross, listening to the RCC terminology from trained theologians, instead of fellowshipping with blissfully ignorant workers and friends. I'm not impressed with the fruits of theological theory. It makes people proud and condescending. I prefer to fellowship with folks who are drawn to the lowly Jesus, conscious of their need of the Holy Spirit's leading.
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Sept 8, 2015 1:00:38 GMT -5
Also don't get upset if some well meaning soul says it is a heresy (bless their soul) .... after all there is so much Scripture that doesn't fit the trinity template, you can understand & sympathise can't you? Calling the Godhead heresy! That's blasphemy. That's unforgiven sin... Blasphemy against the Spirit of God. If I were you I would be very careful to say the Godhead is the devil's doctrine. May Godhead have mercy on their souls for say such horrible thing about God.When did review call the Godhead heresy? I think he referred to man-made religious theory as heresy.
|
|
|
Post by blandie on Sept 8, 2015 1:53:56 GMT -5
6 O praise the Father; praise the Son: Blest Spirit, praise to Thee: All praise to God, the three in One, The One in Thee. Of course, the last verse has subsequently been deleted by 2x2 leadership. There is absolutely no way that a hymn as clear as this about "the three in One" would be included in the hymn book if William Irvine or Edward Cooney did not believe it. They were not wilting violets and anything that they did not stand for what have been omitted very quickly. Since the verse doesn't say anything about jesus being god thats not a statement supporting belief in the trinity or a 3 person godhead - before the verse was taken out or now. It only says they are one in spirit and thats how it was understood and explained. I don't know exactly what Ed Cooney believed about jesus being god but I was told in no uncertain terms that the trinity idea holds no truck with the people who followed him out or were put out of the meetings back in the 20s. The hymn verse can be read in different ways by different people too and some make a big point that the father and the son were one in purpose and spirit - and by that they don't in any way mean that that makes jesus god in any sense. That point has been made many times in different ways - such as the reworking of st. paddy's example of the three leaves of a clover as showing how 3 separate beings can be united in spirit. Thats still what I get from the friends. Its not just a few who believes that jesus is not god but thats what every F&W thats mentioned the subject in my experience has believed and heard and those people have come from places around the world too. Until I came here and saw NathanB teaching that jesus was god I hadn't heard anything but flat denials of that from F&Ws. I think because it is so widespread across fields and continents that jesus not being held as god can only be a belief that started way back when that first crop of workers from the british isles started traveling abroad or before and not something more recently innovated with issuing the latest hymn books. It would be good not to assume and to get the straight story of whatever he taught on the subject direct from Mr. Barkley instead of hearsay.
|
|
|
Post by Grant on Sept 8, 2015 2:02:43 GMT -5
Correct, I guess since some Scripture won't fit a trinity template and then also the omitted verse contains words that some over zealous trinity monk folks slipped into the John's Epistle it was the right and wise decision to omit that that hymn verse. So you are acknowledging that the unchanging way has a history of changing and agree that the early workers did believe in the Trinity but most of the present day workers do not.
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on Sept 8, 2015 2:11:02 GMT -5
Round and round the trimulberry bush. Ha ha ha that made me laugh! Anyway I asked in the meeting, and apparently Edward Cooney didn't believe Jesus was God, and I know he's not highly thought of by some people here. But, seeing as he was an early worker, I'm sure he believed as the others did. Which is, one God, his son Christ Jesus, and the holy spirit. All separate but one in heart and mind. And we are at one with them in the spirit when we follow Jesus and give God our heart! I find it very difficult to believe that Edward Cooney did not believe that Jesus, the Son of God, was also God (along with the Father and Holy Spirit). Why? Edward Cooney was heavily involved in the first Go-Preacher's hymn book published in 1909. Many of his hymns were in the book. The following hymn was also in the book (first and last verses) 1 Our blest Redeemer, ere He breathed His tender, last farewell, A Guide, a Comforter bequeathed With us to dwell. 6 O praise the Father; praise the Son: Blest Spirit, praise to Thee: All praise to God, the three in One, The One in Thee. Of course, the last verse has subsequently been deleted by 2x2 leadership. There is absolutely no way that a hymn as clear as this about "the three in One" would be included in the hymn book if William Irvine or Edward Cooney did not believe it. They were not wilting violets and anything that they did not stand for what have been omitted very quickly. Not one sentence there says Jesus is God! It says they're one. And I've always been taught that the three being one are in heart and mind, Jesus is the express image of God, and the holy spirit only speaks what he has been given from God to say. And we have a choice, we can either agree, or disagree. If we agree, we are at one with them. None of that, makes Jesus God. There is only one God. I read Ephesians 1 yesterday, and it is clear in that chapter that Paul is talking about God being the God of Christ. 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ 17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, Which is his body, the fullness of him that filleth all in all. Everything is Gods work, and it clearly says above that God is also the God of Jesus, and God has given Christ his place. He is in control of everything and everyone including Jesus Christ. Jesus said without the father I can do nothing. Everything is the will of the father the Almighty God. And he has put Christ above everything. But that doesn't make him God. He had the fullness and is the image of God. But he isn't God.
|
|
|
Post by fred on Sept 8, 2015 2:35:00 GMT -5
Unfortunately, contained within this post and a few more following it, is the highly judgemental and self righteous implication that those who involve themselves in theological study will not be getting the living Christ.
The implication is that only the lowly simple folk will have access to the true spirit. I find this attitude highly offensive.
That this attitude is alive and well in the fellowship is a reflection of our roots, where our founding fathers derided the clergy. In many cases this may well have been deserved but alas, the baby has gone out with the bathwater and now I believe we are lacking in leaders who can clearly expound the scriptures.
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on Sept 8, 2015 2:54:00 GMT -5
Not one sentence there says Jesus is God! It says they're one. And I've always been taught that the three being one are in heart and mind, Jesus is the express image of God, and the holy spirit only speaks what he has been given from God to say. And we have a choice, we can either agree, or disagree. If we agree, we are at one with them. None of that, makes Jesus God. There is only one God. I read Ephesians 1 yesterday, and it is clear in that chapter that Paul is talking about God being the God of Christ. 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ 17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, Which is his body, the fullness of him that filleth all in all. Everything is Gods work, and it clearly says above that God is also the God of Jesus, and God has given Christ his place. He is in control of everything and everyone including Jesus Christ. Jesus said without the father I can do nothing. Everything is the will of the father the Almighty God. And he has put Christ above everything. But that doesn't make him God. He had the fullness and is the image of God. But he isn't God. See my other post. It's pretty obvious what the verse is saying. Ross, to me Jesus isn't God. My uncle never believed that. He never ever said that, and he went to meetings with Edward. He told us that God is God almighty, and Jesus is the Christ his son. If you want to believe that so be it. But I don't agree with you in this. Right through the bible God is above Jesus. And Christ is at his right hand. Everything is given to him from God. So he isn't God. That's what I believe is right, because it says so in the bible. I won't say anymore, it will go on and on again otherwise.
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on Sept 8, 2015 3:03:40 GMT -5
Ross, to me Jesus isn't God. My uncle never believed that. He never ever said that, and he went to meetings with Edward. He told us that God is God almighty, and Jesus is the Christ his son. If you want to believe that so be it. But I don't agree with you in this. Right through the bible God is above Jesus. And Jesus is at his right hand. Everything is given to him from God. So he isn't God. That's what I believe is right, because it says so in the bible. My Bible, which is the same as yours, refers to Jesus as God many times. That's correct. It also refers to Jesus as the Son of God - that's correct as well. Jesus claimed to be God in many places. When He was called God he accepted the name. His apostles and disciples worshipped Him and fell at His feet. He accepted their worship, knowing that the OT clearly stated that only God was to be worshipped. I'm clearly happy for you to believe what you want to but I will refute any suggestion that Jesus was not called God in the Bible or that He did not claim to be God. You show me in the bible, where Jesus himself said he's God. Out of his own mouth! Where he said "I am God" or, "i am God the son"?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2015 3:06:26 GMT -5
See my other post. It's pretty obvious what the verse is saying. Ross, to me Jesus isn't God. My uncle never believed that. He never ever said that, and he went to meetings with Edward. He told us that God is God almighty, and Jesus is the Christ his son. If you want to believe that so be it. But I don't agree with you in this. Right through the bible God is above Jesus. And Christ is at his right hand. Everything is given to him from God. So he isn't God. That's what I believe is right, because it says so in the bible. I won't say anymore, it will go on and on again otherwise. no matter how much you struggle to get what you believe across to certain ones it ain't going to happen, so when you say I won't say anymore that is the best policy. God knows your zeal and love for truth
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on Sept 8, 2015 3:08:47 GMT -5
Ross, to me Jesus isn't God. My uncle never believed that. He never ever said that, and he went to meetings with Edward. He told us that God is God almighty, and Jesus is the Christ his son. If you want to believe that so be it. But I don't agree with you in this. Right through the bible God is above Jesus. And Christ is at his right hand. Everything is given to him from God. So he isn't God. That's what I believe is right, because it says so in the bible. I won't say anymore, it will go on and on again otherwise. no matter how much you struggle to get what you believe across to certain ones it ain't going to happen, so when you say I won't say anymore that is the best policy. God knows your zeal and love for truth Yes your right, there's a time to shut up. Mine is now, before it goes on and on again.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2015 3:14:08 GMT -5
no matter how much you struggle to get what you believe across to certain ones it ain't going to happen, so when you say I won't say anymore that is the best policy. God knows your zeal and love for truth Yes your right, there's a time to shut up. Mine is now, before it goes on and on again. then one gets drained and irritable, that's why i don't converse with some now, just the endless around and around
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on Sept 8, 2015 4:38:59 GMT -5
You show me in the bible, where Jesus himself said he's God. Out of his own mouth! Where he said "I am God" or, "i am God the son"? Jesus actually referred to himself mostly as the Son of Man. I have previously quoted many places where he claimed to be God by what He was doing (forgiving sin etc). The Jews knew what he was doing and tried to kill Him because of it. I have also previously stated that He did not call himself God - mostly the Son of Man. But he was called God and didn't refute it. If someone called you the Queen would you refute it. Of course you would because you aren't the Queen (unless she's blogging on this Board Paul, Peter and the Apostles refer to Jesus in Scripture as the Son of God, Lord and God. Our of interest do you believe that Jesus is divine? So you can't show me anywhere where Jesus says I am God or I am God the son? Here is where he says he's the son of God John 10 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? And the Jews wanted to kill him because he said he was the son of God John 19 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God. Also divine, it doesn't mean that Jesus is God, divine also means from God or of God. Why do you keep bringing this up? It's been explained many times! Yes I do think Jesus is divine, he is from God. But he isn't God! Right I'm off out
|
|
|
Post by blandie on Sept 8, 2015 4:58:35 GMT -5
The verse is very clear - praise the Father, praise the Son, praise the blest Spirit. All praise to God - the three (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) being One. I would ask Barry B if I was in the fellowship. He is not the first worker, nor the last, that will support the Trinity and the fact that Jesus is God. The thing is that it isn't clear at all and reading it as saying jesus is god is reading into it something thats not there. I understand that you want it to say jesus is god but it doesn't and neither do similar statements from senior workers over the decades. If you ask if jesus is divine I don't know of a worker or a friend that won't agree that he was divine and if you stop there you might come away thinking the worker or friend thinks jesus is god and thats just not the case. If you ask whether the father son and holy spirit are one you'll get no disagreement from a friend or worker and if you stop there you might come away thinking the worker or friend thinks jesus is god and thats not the case either. If a worker or friend thinks jesus is god then they'd be able to directly tell you that they agree that jesus is god like NathanB does - but none I've heard after being clearly asked have agreed that jesus and the father are one god. Some of the very ones who have been said to support the ideas behind the trinity have put people out of the meetings for insisting that jesus is god and I think there were a couple of workers in Alaska or BC that supposedly 'sort of' supported some parts of the trinity ideas but they were booted a couple of decades back and there was another worker who said something along the lines that if he agreed with belief in the trinity or not depends on who is in the room at the time. I've even heard rationalizations whipped out that it was ok to intimate that jesus was god - tho only in the sense that Israel was said 'ye are all gods' but those who went that far also made it clear that jesus was not god in any way like the father is god and is not one god with the father and that the father alone is god. Not one place in convention notes or letters or statements from senior workers including those in the first group or the quotations given here at times have I ever read an unequivocal statement holding jesus as god tho some have said things that could be taken by outsiders as supporting trinity ideas they actually didn't say that jesus is god but only things that could be interpreted as maybe fitting with trinity ideas. The trinity idea was curtly dismissed with an 'of course not' when the senior worker in these parts was asked and I don't think the view has changed based upon a third-hand post of a second hand internet post that contained impressions instead of direct quotes. Saying that workers have and will support the trinity and jesus as god is something I doubt tho it would be a delight to be shown otherwise. Whether one agrees with the ideas behind the trinity ideas or rejects them - any outsider who comes away from a gospel meeting thinking that the F&W group is one that agrees with the trinity concept hasn't carefully listened or asked the right questions - tho I seriously doubt that they'd be directly disabused of that misconception by being told that it is a false catholic doctrine - until after giving more meetings and a hoped for revelation a chance to sink in. The waters are muddy enough without imprecise and fluff and outright misleading statements being dredged up to supposedly show that trinity ideas were or are accepted - the same muddy use of language that sounds one way on the surface to the world but doesn't tell the whole story is used in other areas to make the doctrine sound non-exclusive or to claim no organization or to rationalize the no name contradiction or to shoehorn the standards but no rules dichotomy or lots else.
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Sept 8, 2015 5:08:08 GMT -5
That point has been made many times in different ways - such as the reworking of st. paddy's example of the three leaves of a clover as showing how 3 separate beings can be united in spirit. Do you consider God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit to be three separate beings?
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Sept 8, 2015 5:12:35 GMT -5
With some he has lost his divinity. Why on earth anyone would believe that a human being who was not divine could save them eternally is hard to fathom. Who's saying Jesus is not divine?
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Sept 8, 2015 5:15:54 GMT -5
You need to study the times that Christ is referred to as Jehovah - the name of God - in the OT. Don't get too caught up on the word Elohim. What Hebrew word is translated "Jehovah"? I see that you answered "Yahweh". Here's what my Youngs Bible Dictionary says for Jehovah: [read by Jews elohim, prob Yahweh] Elohim means: God, gods, objects of worship.
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Sept 8, 2015 5:23:45 GMT -5
You show me in the bible, where Jesus himself said he's God. Out of his own mouth! Where he said "I am God" or, "i am God the son"? Jesus actually referred to himself mostly as the Son of Man. I have previously quoted many places where he claimed to be God by what He was doing (forgiving sin etc). Was Jesus forgiving sin or was he simply saying that God had forgiven their sins? Are Catholic priests God Almighty as well? Is John forgiving sins in his letter? 1 John 2:12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2015 9:42:17 GMT -5
And in this issue the JWs are correct. I have no problem admitting that. Do you believe that Jesus is begotten (John 3:16) or is a created being? Do you believe that Jesus is divine? Do you worship Jesus and fall at his feet? (not the "tipping the hat" worship you implied the other day in your post) I believe that Jesus was begotten of the Father before all beings. Through Jesus God made all things. Jesus was the beginning of the creation of God because all things were made through him and for him. He is the first and last because the first creation and the last creation are through him. He is the beginning and the end because salvation begins with him and is finalized in him. This in no way 'equates' him with the Father. I don't use the word worship in reference to Jesus only because Christians tends to have a wrong understanding of this word IMO. And yes, I do Tip my Hat to him, but I'm pretty sure I'll fall in my face when I stand before him as he is my lord and Master, and he's the one who has been given judgment and has the keys to life and death.
|
|
|
Post by blandie on Sept 8, 2015 13:26:09 GMT -5
That point has been made many times in different ways - such as the reworking of st. paddy's example of the three leaves of a clover as showing how 3 separate beings can be united in spirit. Do you consider God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit to be three separate beings? The pro and anti sides have done good jobs of summarizing their reasoning and I didn't post to add anything to either sides. I don't like it when people take imprecise and unsubstantiated and incomplete and out of context statements and take a big leap to a invalid conclusion that the quoted person said something precise and substantiated and complete in context accounts when their statements were not any of those and then spread a misimpression of what was said or believed. Theres been too much of taking out of context of things like Geo. Walker's 'cloverleaf' illustration or older workers and friends readily saying that jesus is 'divine' to 'prove' that they believed that jesus was god when whats quoted said nothing definite about that and the same peoples statements elsewhere - not to mention the fruit of their ministries - showed that they didn't hold to whats claimed they taught. I don't think they were divided about that topic other than a very few who left or were put out over the years for disturbing by pushing trinity-type views. I get the impression sometimes that the thoughts out there that the friends will jump at accepting the ideas behind the trinity if a case can be cobbled together in which some imprecise and out of context statements by early workers can be selectively presented as if they were accepting of trinity claims and that non-trinity positions are something aberrant thats only recently been introduced by workers. Doesn't work. Without an unequivocal statement direct from Barkley we don't know if his teaching was accurately conveyed or if some newbie just was giving an impression colored by his or her own trinity belief. Either way the report that jesus is being taught as god the son is not the norm or even a minority teaching in any group of workers or friends I've ever encountered - including in Indiana - and if Barry Barkley is heralding such a huge shift in the east part of n. america on the topic then I'd want a more definite account than some anonymous paraphrase that may or may not be accurate. I suppose its possible that this will be another non-trivial teaching like divorces where eastern americans will differ from the rest but without something firmer I still think its more likely that someone mistook what was actually said. Thanks Walker1903 for posting possible news items like this. Even friends I know connected to the friends quicker-than-facebook rumor grapevine hadn't gotten wind of this yet.
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Sept 8, 2015 19:02:28 GMT -5
Do you consider God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit to be three separate beings? The pro and anti sides have done good jobs of summarizing their reasoning and I didn't post to add anything to either sides. I don't like it when people take imprecise and unsubstantiated and incomplete and out of context statements and take a big leap to a invalid conclusion that the quoted person said something precise and substantiated and complete in context accounts when their statements were not any of those and then spread a misimpression of what was said or believed. Theres been too much of taking out of context of things like Geo. Walker's 'cloverleaf' illustration or older workers and friends readily saying that jesus is 'divine' to 'prove' that they believed that jesus was god when whats quoted said nothing definite about that and the same peoples statements elsewhere - not to mention the fruit of their ministries - showed that they didn't hold to whats claimed they taught. I don't think they were divided about that topic other than a very few who left or were put out over the years for disturbing by pushing trinity-type views. I get the impression sometimes that the thoughts out there that the friends will jump at accepting the ideas behind the trinity if a case can be cobbled together in which some imprecise and out of context statements by early workers can be selectively presented as if they were accepting of trinity claims and that non-trinity positions are something aberrant thats only recently been introduced by workers. Doesn't work. Without an unequivocal statement direct from Barkley we don't know if his teaching was accurately conveyed or if some newbie just was giving an impression colored by his or her own trinity belief. Either way the report that jesus is being taught as god the son is not the norm or even a minority teaching in any group of workers or friends I've ever encountered - including in Indiana - and if Barry Barkley is heralding such a huge shift in the east part of n. america on the topic then I'd want a more definite account than some anonymous paraphrase that may or may not be accurate. I suppose its possible that this will be another non-trivial teaching like divorces where eastern americans will differ from the rest but without something firmer I still think its more likely that someone mistook what was actually said. Thanks Walker1903 for posting possible news items like this. Even friends I know connected to the friends quicker-than-facebook rumor grapevine hadn't gotten wind of this yet. I like your answer Blandie. You've skirted around my question, but I don't blame you for that!
|
|
|
Post by holdmyhand on Sept 8, 2015 20:43:48 GMT -5
Do you consider God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit to be three separate beings? Fixit isn't that question attempting to confine the spirit realm to the limitations of our understanding Given that the bible is progressive revelation and in the last chapter we read Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him ( this speaks of one throne) I am trying to understand why it is so important they are seen as completely separate
|
|