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Post by maryhig on Jul 13, 2015 4:36:27 GMT -5
No we can't be 100 percent conscious about our sins, your right. But when we are, I believe we shouldn't do them. I believe that this is going against God. But one thing all these conversations have done, is made me realise how sinful I am. I have a craving for sweet things. And I find it hard to give them up. And the other day I made a cuppa for me and my husband. And I went to get a Kit Kat from the cupboard and straight away I got a conscience. I realised what I had said to Ross about intentionally sinning. And because I crave for these things, then I know it's wrong for me to have them. So I couldn't eat it. My hand was there, but my conscience was too strong to let me. i know God was letting me know that I'm sinning too! I haven't had chocolate or sweets since. So I know this will be a battle, because it's so strong in me, but I can't tell others about wilfully sinning and then do it myself. So now I know in my heart that I'm wrong. I must fight it. And with the help of the spirit I can. Dont be too hard on yourself. Do you think sugar is your enemy? I know my enemy and it isnt sugar I think its lust of the eyes for that yummy piece of almondine or something else. Im joking...x Wilfully sinning for me would commiting adultery or robbing the bank or running a coin down the side of someones car because they pinched a car space. Etc. Or telling a worker he is out of line because he cheesed me off. Oh I don't believe it. I've come to Starbucks with my daughter for a coffee and their giving away free cookies of various types. That never happens here. In fact it hasn't happened to me before ha ha. Talk about being tempted or tested! I took one for my grandson later lol. I looked and in came my conscience. I've condemned myself! I'll never be able to eat sweet food again! But maybe it's a good thing. I need to lose weight!
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Post by jondough on Jul 13, 2015 8:56:05 GMT -5
I think he might already have taken control of your life when you repented turned to Him!! You've already turned to him and have been born again!! He gave you the new life - by His grace. And so you live for Him. Of course, you'll continue to sin until the day you die. But if you continue to trust in Him and follow Him He'll continue to clothe you in His righteousness. I have never said that it's okay to intentionally sin because you are saved - please don't say that! Have a study of the difference between justification and sanctification - what God does when we repent and turn to Him (Paul and others talk about it heaps) and then what the Holy Spirit (God) does in our lives as we live for Him. I think we are saying very similar things now I've just read that, because I agree with what you have said, and understand more by the way you have written it this time. The only exception is that I don't believe that i am completely saved until the end if my life, whereas I think you do. That I will always believe, because Jesus said we must endure to the end to be saved. Endure means suffer, and suffer is denying the flesh and the world. And we are in this fleshly body and sin. And we don't know what we will do in the future. So I just put my faith in God and follow Jesus and if my heart remains right toward God. I believe that Christ will guide me and stay with me and the spirit will teach me daily. And this I must follow and do until the end if my life. And then I will know if I'm going to heaven because only God can decide that. Mary, God gave us natural families in order to understand his spiritual family. What happens when we adopt a child? Is that child not a part of our family the minute we adopt him/her? It is the same when you have been adopted into God's spiritual family. We forgive our children over and over, the same as God forgives us. They do not get kicked out of the family for doing wrong. Neither are we. There could be certain things that they could do to lose their privilege of being a family member, but for this to happen, it must be very grave. So long as you love and appreciate your place in his family....and you do your best to fill that place, you are good. Like we don't want our kids living their entire life feeling guilty, neither does God. He does however, want us to love his family, same as we want our children to love their family. We must trust that God's love is far greater than our own.
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Post by maryhig on Jul 13, 2015 9:27:44 GMT -5
I think we are saying very similar things now I've just read that, because I agree with what you have said, and understand more by the way you have written it this time. The only exception is that I don't believe that i am completely saved until the end if my life, whereas I think you do. That I will always believe, because Jesus said we must endure to the end to be saved. Endure means suffer, and suffer is denying the flesh and the world. And we are in this fleshly body and sin. And we don't know what we will do in the future. So I just put my faith in God and follow Jesus and if my heart remains right toward God. I believe that Christ will guide me and stay with me and the spirit will teach me daily. And this I must follow and do until the end if my life. And then I will know if I'm going to heaven because only God can decide that. Mary, God gave us natural families in order to understand his spiritual family. What happens when we adopt a child? Is that child not a part of our family the minute we adopt him/her? It is the same when you have been adopted into God's spiritual family. We forgive our children over and over, the same as God forgives us. They do not get kicked out of the family for doing wrong. Neither are we. There could be certain things that they could do to lose their privilege of being a family member, but for this to happen, it must be very grave. So long as you love and appreciate your place in his family....and you do your best to fill that place, you are good. Like we don't want our kids living their entire life feeling guilty, neither does God. He does however, want us to love his family, same as we want our children to love their family. We must trust that God's love is far greater than our own. Really? So if that's the case, would you being a loving parent, turn away and forsake you're child and pour all your wrath out on them when they were going through what Jesus was going through at the end if his life? When you have promised never to forsake or leave them because they always do what you ask them? Because as a loving parent I couldn't. And I'm sure you wouldn't either. Yet (from what I'm seeing) most people who believe in God believe he would? As you say Gods love is far greater than ours. And I can't Believe he would ever turn away and forsake Jesus when he needed him so much, I believe he strengthened him! But what i do believe is that God doesn't let us off if we sin wilfully. As a mother, what I would do and have done is chastise my children for purposely doing wrong, which I believe is what God does to us. Otherwise my children would be spoilt rotten if I just forgave them every time they wilfully went against me? As a mother I was very loving and fair, but I wasn't over soft and I now have very caring, loving, respectful children. Who are there for me. And that's what I believe God is like with us.
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Post by jondough on Jul 13, 2015 9:48:09 GMT -5
Yes, there is correction. But he doesn't dis-own us. You are still part of his family. This is how our kids were able to learn. Same with us.
Did God forsake Jesus? I don't believe he did. He could not be a part of the sin that Jesus bore for us. Jesus had to die with this sin that God could not be a part of, so he had to do it on his own. God couldn't not be with him until this sin was put to death. Then Jesus was raised again, and God could once again be with him.
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Post by maryhig on Jul 13, 2015 10:33:19 GMT -5
Yes, there is correction. But he doesn't dis-own us. You are still part of his family. This is how our kids were able to learn. Same with us. Did God forsake Jesus? I don't believe he did. He could not be a part of the sin that Jesus bore for us. Jesus had to die with this sin that God could not be a part of, so he had to do it on his own. God couldn't not be with him until this sin was put to death. Then Jesus was raised again, and God could once again be with him. Thanks for your answer, but I'm sorry but I can't get how Satan murdering Jesus on a cross whilst God can't look is going to save us! There would be no need (as some say) for God to come himself into flesh and let Satan murder him to forgive our sins. And then not look at himself whilst he's being crucified. It all makes no sense! And then were all saved. How did Jesus being murdered by sinful men under the influence of Satan save us? I believe that Jesus came and bore all our sins in his flesh (his cross). He felt the same temptations as we do and resisted them all, and also put sin to death in his flesh, he remained pure and sinless. So as Satan couldn't touch him because Jesus was too strong for him, and Jesus overcame Satan. Showing us a way to follow by not living to please himself, but living to please God. And we have to do this also, thus following him. And if we follow him and start to deny sin, we will inherit the holy spirit... Which is a gift we don't deserve because we are sinful but we receive him by the grace of God. And its only Christ's righteousness within our hearts that is saving us. But we only receive the holy spirit if our hearts are right and God blesses us. We won't receive him by just saying we believe, we have to truly believe, truly repent and mean it and turn away from the corruptness of this world and the sins of the flesh. Thus denying Satan, and Jesus will help us through the holy spirit, to overcome. Because he has overcome Satan and the world.
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Post by maryhig on Jul 13, 2015 10:41:15 GMT -5
Yes, there is correction. But he doesn't dis-own us. You are still part of his family. This is how our kids were able to learn. Same with us. Did God forsake Jesus? I don't believe he did. He could not be a part of the sin that Jesus bore for us. Jesus had to die with this sin that God could not be a part of, so he had to do it on his own. God couldn't not be with him until this sin was put to death. Then Jesus was raised again, and God could once again be with him. By the way, one other thing, did I say God disowns us? I don't think I said that? We turn from him, not him from us!
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Post by jondough on Jul 13, 2015 10:45:47 GMT -5
Yes, there is correction. But he doesn't dis-own us. You are still part of his family. This is how our kids were able to learn. Same with us. Did God forsake Jesus? I don't believe he did. He could not be a part of the sin that Jesus bore for us. Jesus had to die with this sin that God could not be a part of, so he had to do it on his own. God couldn't not be with him until this sin was put to death. Then Jesus was raised again, and God could once again be with him. Thanks for your answer, but I'm sorry but I can't get how Satan murdering Jesus on a cross whilst God can't look is going to save us! There would be no need (as some say) for God to come himself into flesh and let Satan murder him to forgive our sins. And then not look at himself whilst he's being crucified. It all makes no sense! And then were all saved. How did Jesus being murdered by sinful men under the influence of Satan save us? I believe that Jesus came and bore all our sins in his flesh (his cross). He felt the same temptations as we do and resisted them all, and also put sin to death in his flesh, he remained pure and sinless. So as Satan couldn't touch him because Jesus was too strong for him, and Jesus overcame Satan. Showing us a way to follow by not living to please himself, but living to please God. And we have to do this also, thus following him. And if we follow him and start to deny sin, we will inherit the holy spirit... Which is a gift we don't deserve because we are sinful but we receive him by the grace of God. And its only Christ's righteousness within our hearts that is saving us. But we only receive the holy spirit if our hearts are right and God blesses us. We won't receive him by just saying we believe, we have to truly believe, truly repent and mean it and turn away from the corruptness of this world and the sins of the flesh. Thus denying Satan, and Jesus will help us through the holy spirit, to overcome. Because he has overcome Satan and the world. Yes, I agree Mary, its not what we say, its what is in our hearts. I believe the entire sacrifice is part of God's perfect plan. He could have created robots, but he wanted a people that would love him because of his love, mercy and grace for us. The love that my wife and I have for each other today is so far beyond what it was when we first got married. Why? Because all that we have been through together. Laughing and tears. You could never just create this kind of love. It happens through experience. Not all good. Lots of forgiveness involved.
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Post by jondough on Jul 13, 2015 10:46:39 GMT -5
Yes, there is correction. But he doesn't dis-own us. You are still part of his family. This is how our kids were able to learn. Same with us. Did God forsake Jesus? I don't believe he did. He could not be a part of the sin that Jesus bore for us. Jesus had to die with this sin that God could not be a part of, so he had to do it on his own. God couldn't not be with him until this sin was put to death. Then Jesus was raised again, and God could once again be with him. By the way, one other thing, did I say God disowns us? I don't think I said that? We turn from him, not him from us! I thought you indicated above that we were not saved until we have endured to the very end?? Am I wrong?
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Post by maryhig on Jul 13, 2015 11:02:12 GMT -5
By the way, one other thing, did I say God disowns us? I don't think I said that? We turn from him, not him from us! I thought you indicated above that we were not saved until we have endured to the very end?? Am I wrong? That doesn't mean he disowns us, it means we disown him! How can we say we believe and then live our own lives and expect to get into heaven. What about the people who say they believe, go to church or a meeting on Sunday. Then wilfully sin all week. You can't tell them that they are definitely going to heaven! Matthew 15 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me withtheir lips; but their heart is far from me. Some of the scribes and pharasees said they loved God, but there heart wasn't right, as Jesus said they were far from him. Yet they thought they were ok to sin, even as far as murdering Jesus through pilate and that God would be ok with them. But Jesus said that they weren't children of God, but children of the devil. Because they did wicked works. We can't just say we believe, we must truly believe and give our hearts to God. And we can't say were definitely saved, because we are sinful flesh and anything can happen in our lives and only God can say who's going to heaven. Ps. It does say what I have written in the bible about enduring to the end to be saved I'm glad you and your wife are so happy, it's nice to hear that in this day and age. My husband and I are like this also, and our love for God has brought is even closer
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Post by jondough on Jul 13, 2015 11:33:26 GMT -5
Exactly,
Only us and God knows what is in our own heart. Words mean nothing. So if its as you say, lip service only, then we never did give our lives to him, and were never a part of the family. And I agree that it's possible that we would turn from him. But its not by sinning. Not by loosing our temper. Not by making a mistake.
I just can't believe that you honestly think Peter did NOT know he was lieing when he said he didn't know Jesus - 3 different times. Did he have amnesia, and not recognize him then? Would not he have known he was lieing, but was just not willing for the cost of admitting that he knew him? Maybe was weak at that particular moment. Whatever....but he would have known who Jesus was....and he said he didn't. That was a lie. How could he now know that was not the truth?
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Post by maryhig on Jul 13, 2015 13:33:20 GMT -5
Exactly, Only us and God knows what is in our own heart. Words mean nothing. So if its as you say, lip service only, then we never did give our lives to him, and were never a part of the family. And I agree that it's possible that we would turn from him. But its not by sinning. Not by loosing our temper. Not by making a mistake. I just can't believe that you honestly think Peter did NOT know he was lieing when he said he didn't know Jesus - 3 different times. Did he have amnesia, and not recognize him then? Would not he have known he was lieing, but was just not willing for the cost of admitting that he knew him? Maybe was weak at that particular moment. Whatever....but he would have known who Jesus was....and he said he didn't. That was a lie. How could he now know that was not the truth? Does it really matter what I think about Peter, its what God thinks not me. I'm not Peter's judge. And at that time he was weak and afraid i don't think he would have been thinking if he was sinning or not. He was scared for his life! It does say that when the cock crowed he remembered what the lord said. Also, he didn't have the holy spirit until Christ had risen, and once Christ is risen in us and we have the spirit then we should be stronger and be turning from intentionally sinning. I can't understand how you can't see that? And also saying you know that it's possible that we can turn away from him, but it's not by sinning? What?? Of course we turn away from him by sinning. It tells us plainly in the bible not to sin. What does this mean, in Jesus own words! You sins are forgiven go sin no more? And then Hebrews 10 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins 1 John 3 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. Romans 6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Again Romans 6 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? What is, take up your cross, deny yourself and follow me daily? what does that mean? What about this. A man looks holy, church on Sunday, says he's saved because he's a believer. Inside he's greedy, hard, full of spite, hatred and full of selfishness, but he believes he's ok, because he's been told he's saved if he believes? Believing is doing, and that includes not intentionally sinning! I'm not saying people aren't going to heaven if they intentionally sin, I'm not their judge, but we can't wilfully sin and then say were definitely saved and going to heaven! I would worried about saying that! Especially because I believe in God!
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hberry
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Post by hberry on Jul 13, 2015 13:47:03 GMT -5
Exactly, Only us and God knows what is in our own heart. Words mean nothing. So if its as you say, lip service only, then we never did give our lives to him, and were never a part of the family. And I agree that it's possible that we would turn from him. But its not by sinning. Not by loosing our temper. Not by making a mistake. I just can't believe that you honestly think Peter did NOT know he was lieing when he said he didn't know Jesus - 3 different times. Did he have amnesia, and not recognize him then? Would not he have known he was lieing, but was just not willing for the cost of admitting that he knew him? Maybe was weak at that particular moment. Whatever....but he would have known who Jesus was....and he said he didn't. That was a lie. How could he now know that was not the truth? I'm with you, JD. Peter knew Jesus very well. Peter followed Jesus to the courtyard. Peter was asked if he knew Jesus. Peter three times said he did not. Peter also knew the 10 commandments, and the 9th says "thou shalt not bear false witness." Peter perjured himself before God and man--he lied intentionally to avoid any consequences. I'm not sitting in judgment on Peter, just don't see how not telling the truth on purpose is not a lie--and therefore an intentional sin.
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Post by maryhig on Jul 13, 2015 14:00:23 GMT -5
Exactly, Only us and God knows what is in our own heart. Words mean nothing. So if its as you say, lip service only, then we never did give our lives to him, and were never a part of the family. And I agree that it's possible that we would turn from him. But its not by sinning. Not by loosing our temper. Not by making a mistake. I just can't believe that you honestly think Peter did NOT know he was lieing when he said he didn't know Jesus - 3 different times. Did he have amnesia, and not recognize him then? Would not he have known he was lieing, but was just not willing for the cost of admitting that he knew him? Maybe was weak at that particular moment. Whatever....but he would have known who Jesus was....and he said he didn't. That was a lie. How could he now know that was not the truth? I'm with you, JD. Peter knew Jesus very well. Peter followed Jesus to the courtyard. Peter was asked if he knew Jesus. Peter three times said he did not. Peter also knew the 10 commandments, and the 9th says "thou shalt not bear false witness." Peter perjured himself before God and man--he lied intentionally to avoid any consequences. I'm not sitting in judgment on Peter, just don't see how not telling the truth on purpose is not a lie--and therefore an intentional sin. Blimey my heart feels for what Peter was going through, sin or not, it's not up to us to judge him. And he hadn't received the holy spirit at that time. I would rather hope he hadn't sinned than judge him and say he definitely did. None of you knew his heart! We shouldn't judge anyone at all past, present or future. Only God can judge! Also, If we belong to God and have received the holy spirit, how can we say that we don't turn away from God by sinning? Isn't there anybody here who believes that that's wrong? Surely I'm not the only one who believes it's wrong to wilfully sin and its against God and believe that we are turning from him by doing so? I can't believe what I'm reading! I've never in my life been taught this! And my heart tells me this is wrong!
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Post by jondough on Jul 13, 2015 14:13:05 GMT -5
I'm with you, JD. Peter knew Jesus very well. Peter followed Jesus to the courtyard. Peter was asked if he knew Jesus. Peter three times said he did not. Peter also knew the 10 commandments, and the 9th says "thou shalt not bear false witness." Peter perjured himself before God and man--he lied intentionally to avoid any consequences. I'm not sitting in judgment on Peter, just don't see how not telling the truth on purpose is not a lie--and therefore an intentional sin. Blimey my heart feels for what Peter was going through, sin or not, it's not up to us to judge him. And he hadn't received the holy spirit at that time. I would rather hope he hadn't sinned than judge him and say he definitely did. None of you knew his heart! We shouldn't judge anyone at all past, present or future. Only God can judge! Also, If we belong to God and have received the holy spirit, how can we say that we don't turn away from God by sinning? Isn't there anybody here who believes that that's wrong? Surely I'm not the only one who believes it's wrong to wilfully sin and its against God and believe that we are turning from him by doing so? I can't believe what I'm reading! I've never in my life been taught this! And my heart tells me this is wrong! Mary, You're getting way to riled up over this. I think we are all saying the same thing. Most of us believe that just to blatantly sin over and over - thinking "I'm OK - there's forgiveness for this" is wrong, and would be turning from God. I'm only trying to get you to see that sometimes we DO willfully sin for whatever reason - Peter was just one example. I've said more than once now that only God and our self know what is in our heart. That's why we should not judge someone else. What comes out of our lips means nothing. There IS forgiveness when we DO willfully sin for whatever reason - Peter is case in point. Can you imagine how few people there would be in Heaven if anyone who has EVER willfully sinned, not make it? I would have been gone the first week.
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Post by maryhig on Jul 13, 2015 14:20:13 GMT -5
Blimey my heart feels for what Peter was going through, sin or not, it's not up to us to judge him. And he hadn't received the holy spirit at that time. I would rather hope he hadn't sinned than judge him and say he definitely did. None of you knew his heart! We shouldn't judge anyone at all past, present or future. Only God can judge! Also, If we belong to God and have received the holy spirit, how can we say that we don't turn away from God by sinning? Isn't there anybody here who believes that that's wrong? Surely I'm not the only one who believes it's wrong to wilfully sin and its against God and believe that we are turning from him by doing so? I can't believe what I'm reading! I've never in my life been taught this! And my heart tells me this is wrong! Mary, You're getting way to riled up over this. I think we are all saying the same thing. Most of us believe that just to blatantly sin over and over - thinking "I'm OK - there's forgiveness for this" is wrong, and would be turning from God. I'm only trying to get you to see that sometimes we DO willfully sin for whatever reason - Peter was just one example. I've said more than once now that only God and our self know what is in our heart. That's why we should not judge someone else. What comes out of our lips means nothing. There IS forgiveness when we DO willfully sin for whatever reason - Peter is case in point. Can you imagine how few people there would be in Heaven if anyone who has EVER willfully sinned, not make it? I would have been gone the first week. I might look riled up in writing but I'm honestly not. I've just never heard anyone say before that were not turning away from God when we wilfully sin. But there's no point in going on. We will have to believe what's right in our own hearts. As for Peter, I've said what I think, and I don't like saying people have definitely done something when I don't know their hearts! Or what they were going through at the time!
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hberry
Senior Member
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Post by hberry on Jul 13, 2015 16:55:26 GMT -5
I'm with you, JD. Peter knew Jesus very well. Peter followed Jesus to the courtyard. Peter was asked if he knew Jesus. Peter three times said he did not. Peter also knew the 10 commandments, and the 9th says "thou shalt not bear false witness." Peter perjured himself before God and man--he lied intentionally to avoid any consequences. I'm not sitting in judgment on Peter, just don't see how not telling the truth on purpose is not a lie--and therefore an intentional sin. snip.... I can't believe what I'm reading! I've never in my life been taught this! And my heart tells me this is wrong! You mention being taught. Does your whole group believe as you do? Was this Edward Cooney's teaching? Not finding fault, just curious.
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Post by bubbles on Jul 13, 2015 19:16:25 GMT -5
Every biblical figure had charactor flaws. No different to us. The only perfect person was christ.
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Post by bubbles on Jul 13, 2015 19:20:27 GMT -5
Dont be too hard on yourself. Do you think sugar is your enemy? I know my enemy and it isnt sugar I think its lust of the eyes for that yummy piece of almondine or something else. Im joking...x Wilfully sinning for me would commiting adultery or robbing the bank or running a coin down the side of someones car because they pinched a car space. Etc. Or telling a worker he is out of line because he cheesed me off. Ha ha bubbles, you often make me smile! I understand what you mean, but just after I said that to Ross, I got a conscience about eating too much sweet food and its not the food. It's the craving. And I can't tell others that we should listen to our conscience and not do it myself, anyway I might be a size 10 this time next year . Just had a brilliant rush to the brain. Why dont I swing by in my electromagnetic cube and drop in for some tete a tete? You could take me to starbucks and I could fill you with froth n bubble nonsense. X
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Post by maryhig on Jul 14, 2015 0:57:25 GMT -5
snip.... I can't believe what I'm reading! I've never in my life been taught this! And my heart tells me this is wrong! You mention being taught. Does your whole group believe as you do? Was this Edward Cooney's teaching? Not finding fault, just curious. Hiya. I'm not talking about Peter there, but about wilfully sinning, and yes, our meeting believe this about wilfully sinning too. I don't know what Edward Cooney believed, I didn't know him! But regardless of who taught what, my heart tells me that sinning wilfully is wrong.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2015 5:42:02 GMT -5
Re Edward Cooney Asking us if we follow Edward Cooney's teachings is about as silly as me asking do former members follow William Irvine's teachings.
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Post by maryhig on Jul 14, 2015 5:54:33 GMT -5
Hiya. I'm not talking about Peter there, but about wilfully sinning, and yes, our meeting believe this about wilfully sinning too. I don't know what Edward Cooney believed, I didn't know him! But regardless of who taught what, my heart tells me that sinning wilfully is wrong. Of course it is wrong - sin is wrong period. But as you know there is a perfect solution! As JD has said God has adopted us into His family. He's already rescued and adopted us and says "you are now part of my family....I want you to live as part of my family". We know (because of sin) that we will make plenty of mistakes (just like Peter and others did) but God has said "you no longer live under condemnation" (Romans 8). And he's given us an absolute assurance that if continue to trust and turn to Him that His Holy Spirit will work in us and Christ's blood will cover our sins when we stand before Him on judgement day. We all know that we can never be good enough to enter Heaven. So there's little point in trusting in our own goodness - (btw I'm not in any way saying you are doing this) Why don't we instead, like He has asked us to, just trust completely in His goodness and righteousness? After all, we know He is completely sovereign and knows best for each of us. It's clear from your posts that this is what you are doing! I've appreciated the dialogue..... Ross, Firstly I never said we won't go to heaven if we wilfully sin, i leave all that in Gods hands, I've sinned enough so i can't say anything. What I did say is that we can't wilfully sin and think were ok! God may not see it quite like that and we can't presume he will Romans 8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. There is no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus who walk not after the flesh but after the spirit, because if we're walking after the spirit and not after the flesh then Christ in our hearts is making us free from sin and death (Satan). (He's casting out our devils) And he has the power to make us free, because he overcame Satan and condemned him in his flesh by dying to self! So Satan had no place in him. Now he can help us overcome sin in our hearts if we let him in and follow him. If the spirit is in our hearts we should be finding it very hard to wilfully sin. Our conscience should be in overdrive! I can't say I'm going to heaven, only God can decide that. And I'll find that out when I die. But I can be saved from sin by Christ bringing the spirit into my heart in my life now, this saving me from sin! I'm more concerned by those around me receiving this word of God than myself getting into heaven. I leave my life in Gods hands. I hope, (God willing) that if we both get to heaven, that were not like this there. Right back to my cleaning
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Post by maryhig on Jul 14, 2015 6:14:22 GMT -5
Re Edward Cooney Asking us if we follow Edward Cooney's teachings is about as silly as me asking do former members follow William Irvine's teachings. Sorry, I didn't say that Bert, I believe we all follow Jesus teachings, I believe all the different people since Jesus has passed the word on, and now we're blessed to receive it. It's not the man preaching (although I reckon they're very special in Gods eyes) it's Christ in their heart bringing us the spirit, through the man. I believe like you. Our teachings go right back to Galilee where Jesus first preached. In our meeting, we believe we've just removed the add on doctrines and gone back to basics. Whoever is following Jesus in spirit and in truth. Loving God and their neighbour, and taking up their cross, denying the flesh daily, taking Christ into their hearts is a part of Gods kingdom Matthew 10 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it. I believe if we lose our lives now, we receive Christ in the heart, and find life! Which keeps us alive in God! It's not us that's important, its God! As Jesus said, we must remain humble and stay as unprofitable servants.
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Post by Mary on Jul 14, 2015 6:14:38 GMT -5
Re Edward Cooney Asking us if we follow Edward Cooney's teachings is about as silly as me asking do former members follow William Irvine's teachings. Yes it is ridiculous to say exes follow Irvine's teachings because when they left your church they left Irvine's teaching behind. You believe his teachings were from God who rose him up to establish the true church. To you it's Irvine's way or no way.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2015 6:26:38 GMT -5
My understanding is that our church and Ministry is based upon the teaching and practices of the New Testament church. If I have a contention with any person in my church we both refer to the bible to settle the issue. Is there any doctrine we believe you can point to as coming from Irvine?
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Post by Mary on Jul 14, 2015 6:31:13 GMT -5
You have only picked on the few verses Irvine chose to focus on, formed a church around that and neglected the rest of the Bible. Any one can take a few verses and form a church around them and say their church is in the Bible.
A few single people giving up marriage ( a lot for only a few years) and going around living on people, driving free cars, is not the New Testament ministry Bert.
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hberry
Senior Member
Posts: 743
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Post by hberry on Jul 14, 2015 9:41:41 GMT -5
I hope, (God willing) that if we both get to heaven, that were not like this there. Right back to my cleaning Yep, I know you leave it in God's hands - they're the best hands to leave it in. No, somehow I don't think TMB will be in heaven! Aghhhhh - cleaning - does it say that there will be no more cleaning in heaven? I much prefer the gardening side of things.... The only thing I have against gardening these days is the sunburn I get when I forget to put sunscreen on. I've put a few new trees in and the birds are very happy with me. Well, not that they've told me....but I'm sure they are!
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Post by snow on Jul 14, 2015 17:18:16 GMT -5
Dont be too hard on yourself. Do you think sugar is your enemy? I know my enemy and it isnt sugar I think its lust of the eyes for that yummy piece of almondine or something else. Im joking...x Wilfully sinning for me would commiting adultery or robbing the bank or running a coin down the side of someones car because they pinched a car space. Etc. Or telling a worker he is out of line because he cheesed me off. Oh I don't believe it. I've come to Starbucks with my daughter for a coffee and their giving away free cookies of various types. That never happens here. In fact it hasn't happened to me before ha ha. Talk about being tempted or tested! I took one for my grandson later lol. I looked and in came my conscience. I've condemned myself! I'll never be able to eat sweet food again! But maybe it's a good thing. I need to lose weight! Now if that was me I would be thinking the opposite. It's obvious to me that God is telling you it's okay to eat cookies or he wouldn't have gone out of his way getting you a free one today! And here you are denying him the pleasure of watching you enjoy the free cookie he got for you! Oh my!
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Post by emy on Jul 14, 2015 21:15:40 GMT -5
I'm with you, JD. Peter knew Jesus very well. Peter followed Jesus to the courtyard. Peter was asked if he knew Jesus. Peter three times said he did not. Peter also knew the 10 commandments, and the 9th says "thou shalt not bear false witness." Peter perjured himself before God and man--he lied intentionally to avoid any consequences. I'm not sitting in judgment on Peter, just don't see how not telling the truth on purpose is not a lie--and therefore an intentional sin. ... Also, If we belong to God and have received the holy spirit, how can we say that we don't turn away from God by sinning? Isn't there anybody here who believes that that's wrong? Surely I'm not the only one who believes it's wrong to wilfully sin and its against God and believe that we are turning from him by doing so? P I can't believe what I'm reading! I've never in my life been taught this! And my heart tells me this is wrong! Yes, we do turn from God when we sin, especially if we know we are sinning. But in His mercy, He willingly accepts us if we turn back and sincerely repent. Even if we commit the same sin multiple times (like Peter). However, that will eventually take us farther and farther from God if we do not realize the consequences of what we are doing. I don't think God approves of us doing presumptuous sin. He does allow time to learn, just as we allow our children to learn over time, what we expect. from the Bible: 2 Chronicles 30:9 For if ye turn again unto the Lord, your brethren and your children shall find compassion before them that lead them captive, so that they shall come again into this land: for the Lord your God is gracious and merciful, and will not turn away his face from you, if ye return unto him.Psalm 80 (3 times)
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