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Post by emerald on Jul 6, 2015 0:57:22 GMT -5
I don't know if I can read some of these posts, they're too upsetting, I love a loving God, not a God that would turn his face from his son when he's dying, or a God that would take out his wrath on innocence, you're all making him sound like Satan, it makes me cry not rejoice. Would you turn away from your children who were doing your will when they needed you most, what kind of father do you think we have? You make him sound evil! I feel sick! I've never heart such wicked things about God than the things I've heard here! The lord Jesus came full of love and gentleness, just really think in your hearts about him being crucified. Would you all stand there saying he's dying for me? I don't want him to die like that for me and my sins, they're my sins not his. I'm grateful for him coming and dying to self, and showing me how to put Satan to death in my life! And him giving me the strength to love so much in my heart that his love overcomes Satan's wickedness within. If I was at the cross when they were crucifying Jesus I would have begged them not to kill him. My sins are just that, my sins. And God will forgive us once we turn away from sin and repent. And turn and follow his ever loving every caring ever forgiving son. And we do the same, love, care and forgive. Also, I wouldn't dare say I'm going to heaven and I'm ok and I'm saved. I've got the rest of my life to live and I could go wrong at anytime! The only thing I'm saved from in this life is Satan, if I let Christ into my heart and let the Christ through the holy spirit of God save me by showing me my sins, and helping me wash them away in Gods water which is the word of God, cleansing my heart from sin, giving me the power to overcome. And saving me from that abomination Satan! And I must do this till I die to be eternally saved! Really think about this, what would make you happier as a parent, a willing son going from you out and denying sin to be a guide to others and show them the way, Or A loving son, who is innocent going out and being torn to shreds whilst you forsake him and leave him in his hour of need, and you can't look at his sin? What? ?? What kind of father is that? We're supposed to be in the image of God, would you do that? I believe dying on the cross is his body the cross, if I thought like you all do, it would make me physically sick The God I love is a loving father, he is nothing like this. He strengthens me when I need help, he guides me, he lifts my heart when I'm down, he's showed me many wonderful things, he gives sun and rain the moon at night to guide and the stars also to the wicked as well as the just, he gives us love, and if we truly let him, in then our hearts are full of love and compassion for others. Maryhig, I always understood that God turned His face because He could not look on sin.
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Post by maryhig on Jul 6, 2015 1:03:29 GMT -5
I don't know if I can read some of these posts, they're too upsetting, I love a loving God, not a God that would turn his face from his son when he's dying, or a God that would take out his wrath on innocence, you're all making him sound like Satan, it makes me cry not rejoice. Would you turn away from your children who were doing your will when they needed you most, what kind of father do you think we have? You make him sound evil! I feel sick! I've never heart such wicked things about God than the things I've heard here! The lord Jesus came full of love and gentleness, just really think in your hearts about him being crucified. Would you all stand there saying he's dying for me? I don't want him to die like that for me and my sins, they're my sins not his. I'm grateful for him coming and dying to self, and showing me how to put Satan to death in my life! And him giving me the strength to love so much in my heart that his love overcomes Satan's wickedness within. If I was at the cross when they were crucifying Jesus I would have begged them not to kill him. My sins are just that, my sins. And God will forgive us once we turn away from sin and repent. And turn and follow his ever loving every caring ever forgiving son. And we do the same, love, care and forgive. Also, I wouldn't dare say I'm going to heaven and I'm ok and I'm saved. I've got the rest of my life to live and I could go wrong at anytime! The only thing I'm saved from in this life is Satan, if I let Christ into my heart and let the Christ through the holy spirit of God save me by showing me my sins, and helping me wash them away in Gods water which is the word of God, cleansing my heart from sin, giving me the power to overcome. And saving me from that abomination Satan! And I must do this till I die to be eternally saved! Really think about this, what would make you happier as a parent, a willing son going from you out and denying sin to be a guide to others and show them the way, Or A loving son, who is innocent going out and being torn to shreds whilst you forsake him and leave him in his hour of need, and you can't look at his sin? What? ?? What kind of father is that? We're supposed to be in the image of God, would you do that? I believe dying on the cross is his body the cross, if I thought like you all do, it would make me physically sick The God I love is a loving father, he is nothing like this. He strengthens me when I need help, he guides me, he lifts my heart when I'm down, he's showed me many wonderful things, he gives sun and rain the moon at night to guide and the stars also to the wicked as well as the just, he gives us love, and if we truly let him, in then our hearts are full of love and compassion for others. Maryhig, I always understood that God turned His face because He could not look on sin. Jesus wasn't sin though, he never sinned. He came into this body of sin and denied Satan. He never sinned once. How can we say he never sinned, but God couldn't look at him when he needed him most because of sin? It makes no sense. It makes no sense to any of his life he lived if he was going to be crucified to save us. And it definitely makes no sense to me, that God himself would come into this flesh and have himself crucified by Satan to have us forgiven of all sin?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2015 1:11:15 GMT -5
Maryhig, I always understood that God turned His face because He could not look on sin. Jesus wasn't sin though, he never sinned. He came into this body of sin and denied Satan. He never sinned once. How can we say he never sinned, but God couldn't look at him when he needed him most because of sin? It makes no sense. It makes no sense to any of his life he lived if he was going to be crucified to save us. And it definitely makes no sense to me, that God himself would come into this flesh and have himself crucified by Satan to have us forgiven of all sin? you know the reason, He took the sin of all mankind on Himself and opened the way to God for mankind, that is what God could not look at there would have been no other way we would have ended with no hope of reconciliation with God
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Post by maryhig on Jul 6, 2015 1:15:38 GMT -5
Jesus wasn't sin though, he never sinned. He came into this body of sin and denied Satan. He never sinned once. How can we say he never sinned, but God couldn't look at him when he needed him most because of sin? It makes no sense. It makes no sense to any of his life he lived if he was going to be crucified to save us. And it definitely makes no sense to me, that God himself would come into this flesh and have himself crucified by Satan to have us forgiven of all sin? you know the reason, He took the sin of all mankind on Himself and opened the way to God for mankind, that is what God could not look at there would have been no other way we would have ended with no hope of reconciliation with God I'm sorry Virgo, I agree with you on many things, but not with this. He came and died to self to reconcile us to God. But it's by his life we are saved, not his death on the cross.
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Post by maryhig on Jul 6, 2015 1:17:41 GMT -5
Jesus said in John 3:14-15 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up (Calvary's Cross). That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. How is Moses lifting up the serpent in the wilderness be the same as Calvary's cross? Do you know what the serpent is a picture of? Ps in numbers 21, it says if a serpent had bitten any man, those that beheld the serpent of brass lived. If Satan takes a hold of us. And we look toward Jesus, and we take him into our hearts, we will live in God, and not be dead to him! Jesus wasn't sin, but the fleshly body was, this is the serpent, Satan is all through this flesh, this is the dust he crawls in, but if we lift Jesus up and show him to others then he will save them from sin and if they believe then they will live! Doesn't anyone understand me?
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Post by Lee on Jul 6, 2015 1:35:43 GMT -5
Romans 5:10
For if, while we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!
Seems like there's two sides to this narrative. There's the [seemingly] God-forsaken, Jesus, and then there's the victorious, risen Lord. The duality corresponds to the nature of our redemption: first out with the bad, then in with the good.
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Post by maryhig on Jul 6, 2015 1:40:38 GMT -5
How is Moses lifting up the serpent in the wilderness be the same as Calvary's cross? Do you know what the serpent is a picture of? Ps in numbers 21, it says those that beheld the serpent of brass lived. Symbolic values frequently assigned to serpents
Fertility and rebirth
Historically, serpents and snakes represent fertility or a creative life force. As snakes shed their skin through sloughing, they are symbols of rebirth, transformation, immortality, and healing.[7] The ouroboros is a symbol of eternity and continual renewal of life. Serpents are connected with poison and medicine. The snake's venom is associated with the chemicals of plants and fungi[11][12][13] that have the power to either heal, poison or provide expanded consciousness (and even the elixir of life and immortality) through divine intoxication. Because of its herbal knowledge and entheogenic association the snake was often considered one of the wisest animals, being (close to the) divine. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpent_(symbolism)The serpent represents Satan and sinful flesh
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Post by maryhig on Jul 6, 2015 1:41:59 GMT -5
Romans 5:10 For if, while we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! Seems like there's two sides to this narrative. There's the [seemingly] God-forsaken, Jesus, and then there's the victorious, risen Lord. The duality coincides with the nature of our redemption: first out with the bad, then in with the good. This is death to self, and we are saved by repenting and following him and letting his life live within us.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2015 1:45:16 GMT -5
you know the reason, He took the sin of all mankind on Himself and opened the way to God for mankind, that is what God could not look at there would have been no other way we would have ended with no hope of reconciliation with God I'm sorry Virgo, I agree with you on many things, but not with this. He came and died to self to reconcile us to God. But it's by his life we are saved, not his death on the cross. Acts 2 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
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Post by maryhig on Jul 6, 2015 1:49:06 GMT -5
The serpent represents Satan Yes, I know the serpent represents Satan but NOT in this case Numbers 21 and John 3:14-15.The serpent is Satan in sinful flesh. And Jesus was in sinful flesh. It didn't say in numbers that they should crucify the serpent, it said they must look upon to to live. And we must look upon Jesus to live in God!
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Post by maryhig on Jul 6, 2015 1:51:23 GMT -5
I'm sorry Virgo, I agree with you on many things, but not with this. He came and died to self to reconcile us to God. But it's by his life we are saved, not his death on the cross. Acts 2 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Virgo, would you say that you are saved by his death on a wooden cross, or by his resurrection in your heart which is his life?
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Post by maryhig on Jul 6, 2015 2:02:55 GMT -5
The serpent is Satan in sinful flesh. And Jesus was in sinful flesh. It didn't say in numbers that they should crucify the serpent, it said they must look upon to to live. And we must look upon Jesus to live in God! In Old Testament those who had sinned against God looked on the Brass Serpent Pole! lived...
In the New Testament sinners looked/believed when the Romans soldier lifted Jesus on Calvary's Cross to be crucified= Jesus death shall live forever.
Romans 8:32 God who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? God didn't spare Jesus, because he put him into sinful flesh, so that he would suffer as we do and when he was tempted he should deny sin. And he did this willingly to show us the way to God, he came to show us the way the truth and the life! John 18 To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2015 2:04:20 GMT -5
Acts 2 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Virgo, would you say that you are saved by his death on a wooden cross, or by his resurrection in your heart which is his life? i am saved by His rising again, i am saved by faith, i am saved by the grace of God Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. Romans 8:24 For we are saved by hope: Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. and so on
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Post by maryhig on Jul 6, 2015 2:05:53 GMT -5
Virgo, would you say that you are saved by his death on a wooden cross, or by his resurrection in your heart which is his life? i am saved by His rising again, i am saved by faith, i am saved by the grace of God Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. Romans 8:24 For we are saved by hope: Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. and so on I totally agree with that Virgo.
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Post by maryhig on Jul 6, 2015 2:10:59 GMT -5
I believe we have to put off sinful flesh, and put on the new man which is Christ in the heart thus creating a new person, a clean vessel. A temple not made with men's hands, but a temple for fit Gods holy spirit to dwell in. Walking in the ways of God through Christ. And loving him with all our hearts and loving our neighbour as ourselves and following Jesus because he did all this and never sinned! And he can help us overcome sin.
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Post by maryhig on Jul 6, 2015 2:12:52 GMT -5
Paul wrote in I Cor. 1:18,21 Christ Crucified Is God’s Power and Wisdom
For the message of the CROSS is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being SAVED it is the power of God... It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to SAVE them that BELIEVE.
Maryh, does your little group believes the way you do? Or is this your own personal understanding? Paul also said he was crucified with Christ, but this doesn't mean on a wooden cross! He's talking about his body the cross This is what taking up your cross is, it's your body the cross and the burdens of this life, and denying sin, and following Jesus. And showing love, no matter what happens to us, Because he did this also, and he will give us the strength to do the same if we believe and keep our faith! And yes we all believe this way Ps in the verse you've quoted it says being saved. Not are saved. We are being saved from sin, if we let Christ into our hearts!
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Post by maryhig on Jul 6, 2015 2:15:01 GMT -5
Does your group all believe in valiant thor?
Is this in the bible is it in your teachings?
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Post by maryhig on Jul 6, 2015 2:17:30 GMT -5
Paul also said he was crucified with Christ, but this doesn't mean on a wooden cross! Also he's talking about the body the cross And yes we all believe this way Thanks, who taught you folks that? The leaders in your churches?God
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Post by maryhig on Jul 6, 2015 2:22:39 GMT -5
Nathan, I must go, my daughter in law is coming to take me out, so I'm but being ignorant if I don't answer.
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Post by emerald on Jul 6, 2015 12:03:49 GMT -5
Jesus wasn't sin though, he never sinned. He came into this body of sin and denied Satan. He never sinned once. How can we say he never sinned, but God couldn't look at him when he needed him most because of sin? It makes no sense. It makes no sense to any of his life he lived if he was going to be crucified to save us. And it definitely makes no sense to me, that God himself would come into this flesh and have himself crucified by Satan to have us forgiven of all sin? you know the reason, He took the sin of all mankind on Himself and opened the way to God for mankind, that is what God could not look at there would have been no other way we would have ended with no hope of reconciliation with God Absolutely, Virgo. I like your reply and the fact that it wasn't a snippy one-liner designed to annoy people. More of these helpful posts please.
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Post by emerald on Jul 6, 2015 12:09:49 GMT -5
Thanks, who taught you folks that? The leaders in your churches? God Same as our church then. And like your church, we aren't taught about Valiant Thor. I'd love to believe in VT but I believe in a flat earth.
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Post by What Hat on Jul 6, 2015 14:49:46 GMT -5
I don't know if I can read some of these posts, they're too upsetting, I love a loving God, not a God that would turn his face from his son when he's dying, or a God that would take out his wrath on innocence, you're all making him sound like Satan, it makes me cry not rejoice. Would you turn away from your children who were doing your will when they needed you most, what kind of father do you think we have? You make him sound evil! I feel sick! I've never heart such wicked things about God than the things I've heard here! The lord Jesus came full of love and gentleness, just really think in your hearts about him being crucified. Would you all stand there saying he's dying for me? I don't want him to die like that for me and my sins, they're my sins not his. I'm grateful for him coming and dying to self, and showing me how to put Satan to death in my life! And him giving me the strength to love so much in my heart that his love overcomes Satan's wickedness within. If I was at the cross when they were crucifying Jesus I would have begged them not to kill him. My sins are just that, my sins. And God will forgive us once we turn away from sin and repent. And turn and follow his ever loving every caring ever forgiving son. And we do the same, love, care and forgive. Also, I wouldn't dare say I'm going to heaven and I'm ok and I'm saved. I've got the rest of my life to live and I could go wrong at anytime! The only thing I'm saved from in this life is Satan, if I let Christ into my heart and let the Christ through the holy spirit of God save me by showing me my sins, and helping me wash them away in Gods water which is the word of God, cleansing my heart from sin, giving me the power to overcome with his love. And saving me from that abomination Satan! And I must do this till I die to be eternally saved! Really think about this, what would make you happier as a parent, a willing son going from you out and denying sin to be a guide to others and show them the way, Or A loving son, who is innocent going out and being torn to shreds whilst you forsake him and leave him in his hour of need, and you can't look at his sin? What? ?? What kind of father is that? We're supposed to be in the image of God, would you do that? I believe dying on the cross is his body the cross, if I thought like you all do, it would make me physically sick The God I love is a loving father, he is nothing like this. He strengthens me when I need help, he guides me, he lifts my heart when I'm down, he's showed me many wonderful things, he gives sun and rain the moon at night to guide and the stars also to the wicked as well as the just, he gives us love, and if we truly let him, in then our hearts are full of love and compassion for others. That's a God that loved us so much that he allowed his Son to be sacrificed on the Cross. There are many verses that support this. What do you think of Abraham offering up his son as a sacrifice in obedience to God's Will. If Abraham could do this, why not God? The ram in the thicket is a foreshadowing of the eventual coming of Jesus Christ. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth on Him shall not perish, but shall have eternal life. (John 3:16) What do you think is meant by God giving his Son? Someone's posted about propitiation, but here is the same verse in a modern translation. New Living Translation (Romans 3:25) For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, Hebrews 10 is also very helpful and clear on the role of Jesus' sacrifice. Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. contrasted with Heb 10:19,20 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; But please read the entire chapter.
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Post by maryhig on Jul 6, 2015 15:27:40 GMT -5
I don't know if I can read some of these posts, they're too upsetting, I love a loving God, not a God that would turn his face from his son when he's dying, or a God that would take out his wrath on innocence, you're all making him sound like Satan, it makes me cry not rejoice. Would you turn away from your children who were doing your will when they needed you most, what kind of father do you think we have? You make him sound evil! I feel sick! I've never heart such wicked things about God than the things I've heard here! The lord Jesus came full of love and gentleness, just really think in your hearts about him being crucified. Would you all stand there saying he's dying for me? I don't want him to die like that for me and my sins, they're my sins not his. I'm grateful for him coming and dying to self, and showing me how to put Satan to death in my life! And him giving me the strength to love so much in my heart that his love overcomes Satan's wickedness within. If I was at the cross when they were crucifying Jesus I would have begged them not to kill him. My sins are just that, my sins. And God will forgive us once we turn away from sin and repent. And turn and follow his ever loving every caring ever forgiving son. And we do the same, love, care and forgive. Also, I wouldn't dare say I'm going to heaven and I'm ok and I'm saved. I've got the rest of my life to live and I could go wrong at anytime! The only thing I'm saved from in this life is Satan, if I let Christ into my heart and let the Christ through the holy spirit of God save me by showing me my sins, and helping me wash them away in Gods water which is the word of God, cleansing my heart from sin, giving me the power to overcome with his love. And saving me from that abomination Satan! And I must do this till I die to be eternally saved! Really think about this, what would make you happier as a parent, a willing son going from you out and denying sin to be a guide to others and show them the way, Or A loving son, who is innocent going out and being torn to shreds whilst you forsake him and leave him in his hour of need, and you can't look at his sin? What? ?? What kind of father is that? We're supposed to be in the image of God, would you do that? I believe dying on the cross is his body the cross, if I thought like you all do, it would make me physically sick The God I love is a loving father, he is nothing like this. He strengthens me when I need help, he guides me, he lifts my heart when I'm down, he's showed me many wonderful things, he gives sun and rain the moon at night to guide and the stars also to the wicked as well as the just, he gives us love, and if we truly let him, in then our hearts are full of love and compassion for others. That's a God that loved us so much that he allowed his Son to be sacrificed on the Cross. There are many verses that support this. What do you think of Abraham offering up his son as a sacrifice in obedience to God's Will. If Abraham could do this, why not God? The ram in the thicket is a foreshadowing of the eventual coming of Jesus Christ. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth on Him shall not perish, but shall have eternal life. (John 3:16) What do you think is meant by God giving his Son? Someone's posted about propitiation, but here is the same verse in a modern translation. New Living Translation (Romans 3:25) For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, Hebrews 10 is also very helpful and clear on the role of Jesus' sacrifice. Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. contrasted with Heb 10:19,20 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; But please read the entire chapter. Hi what hat, Firstly,I believe that God giving his son of Christ coming into sinful flesh, to show us the way back to God, by showing us the way, the truth and the life, I believe he came and died in the flesh but was alive in the spirit. Bringing the love of God to us by not living to please himself but giving up his life and living to please the father. Does this sound like a loving God to you? A God who not only sacrificed his own innocent son on a wooden cross, at the hands of Satan when his commandment is thou shalt not kill, he then goes on to forsake him when he needed him most and turned his face away because he couldn't look at him because of the sin, which he never even committed. And let him suffer one of the most horrific deaths a human can suffer to take away our sins? So does this sound like a loving God to you? How would this murderous act save us? How can Jesus being murdered by Satan save us? How can his natural blood pouring out of his body save us? It's his death to self and his life that saves us and we have to die to self and follow him. Romans 6 this is death to self. What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptised into Jesus Christ were baptised into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin What hat, I believe in a God of love, and it breaks my heart to think that his people could believe that he would do this to Jesus, who is so soft and merciful. Satan did this to Jesus, not God.
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Post by maryhig on Jul 6, 2015 15:45:35 GMT -5
I don't know if I can read some of these posts, they're too upsetting, I love a loving God, not a God that would turn his face from his son when he's dying, or a God that would take out his wrath on innocence, you're all making him sound like Satan, it makes me cry not rejoice. Would you turn away from your children who were doing your will when they needed you most, what kind of father do you think we have? You make him sound evil! I feel sick! I've never heart such wicked things about God than the things I've heard here! The lord Jesus came full of love and gentleness, just really think in your hearts about him being crucified. Would you all stand there saying he's dying for me? I don't want him to die like that for me and my sins, they're my sins not his. I'm grateful for him coming and dying to self, and showing me how to put Satan to death in my life! And him giving me the strength to love so much in my heart that his love overcomes Satan's wickedness within. If I was at the cross when they were crucifying Jesus I would have begged them not to kill him. My sins are just that, my sins. And God will forgive us once we turn away from sin and repent. And turn and follow his ever loving every caring ever forgiving son. And we do the same, love, care and forgive. Also, I wouldn't dare say I'm going to heaven and I'm ok and I'm saved. I've got the rest of my life to live and I could go wrong at anytime! The only thing I'm saved from in this life is Satan, if I let Christ into my heart and let the Christ through the holy spirit of God save me by showing me my sins, and helping me wash them away in Gods water which is the word of God, cleansing my heart from sin, giving me the power to overcome with his love. And saving me from that abomination Satan! And I must do this till I die to be eternally saved! Really think about this, what would make you happier as a parent, a willing son going from you out and denying sin to be a guide to others and show them the way, Or A loving son, who is innocent going out and being torn to shreds whilst you forsake him and leave him in his hour of need, and you can't look at his sin? What? ?? What kind of father is that? We're supposed to be in the image of God, would you do that? I believe dying on the cross is his body the cross, if I thought like you all do, it would make me physically sick The God I love is a loving father, he is nothing like this. He strengthens me when I need help, he guides me, he lifts my heart when I'm down, he's showed me many wonderful things, he gives sun and rain the moon at night to guide and the stars also to the wicked as well as the just, he gives us love, and if we truly let him, in then our hearts are full of love and compassion for others. That's a God that loved us so much that he allowed his Son to be sacrificed on the Cross. There are many verses that support this. What do you think of Abraham offering up his son as a sacrifice in obedience to God's Will. If Abraham could do this, why not God? The ram in the thicket is a foreshadowing of the eventual coming of Jesus Christ. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth on Him shall not perish, but shall have eternal life. (John 3:16) What do you think is meant by God giving his Son? Someone's posted about propitiation, but here is the same verse in a modern translation. New Living Translation (Romans 3:25) For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, Hebrews 10 is also very helpful and clear on the role of Jesus' sacrifice. Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. contrasted with Heb 10:19,20 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; But please read the entire chapter. Hebrews 10 19:20 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; The blood of Jesus is his life, poured out for us, and we must take all of it in. (new testament) And live a new way, following Jesus where he took his heart away from worldly sin and flesh and gave his life up so he could please God and show us through his flesh how to be reconciled to God. Thus we by denying sin also, putting our flesh to death by receiving Gods holy spirit through Christ and following the way that Jesus showed and lived. This is what I believe those verses in Hebrews 10 mean. Satan wanted Jesus gone, because in the words of one, if he is left then the whole world will follow him. So Satan through wicked hands murdered Jesus. This is nothing to do with God. God loved us so much that he gave us his son to die for us (death to self) and save us from sin. And to show us a way back to God which is a narrow way. Showing us how to endure to the end and show love always, no matter what we go through, and forgive. Showing our loving father to others. With the help of Christ in our hearts giving us the strength to overcome. And Satan murdered him, because he is a liar and a murderer and has always been. I truly believe this, I'm sorry but I don't see my God and father like this as you here all see him, turning away when Jesus needed him most. He is a loving God!
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Post by What Hat on Jul 6, 2015 15:53:45 GMT -5
That's a God that loved us so much that he allowed his Son to be sacrificed on the Cross. There are many verses that support this. What do you think of Abraham offering up his son as a sacrifice in obedience to God's Will. If Abraham could do this, why not God? The ram in the thicket is a foreshadowing of the eventual coming of Jesus Christ. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth on Him shall not perish, but shall have eternal life. (John 3:16) What do you think is meant by God giving his Son? Someone's posted about propitiation, but here is the same verse in a modern translation. New Living Translation (Romans 3:25) For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, Hebrews 10 is also very helpful and clear on the role of Jesus' sacrifice. Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. contrasted with Heb 10:19,20 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; But please read the entire chapter. Hi what hat, Firstly,I believe that God giving his son of Christ coming into sinful flesh, to show us the way back to God, by showing us the way, the truth and the life, I believe he came and died in the flesh but was alive in the spirit. Bringing the love of God to us by not living to please himself but giving up his life and living to please the father. Does this sound like a loving God to you? A God who not only sacrificed his own innocent son on a wooden cross, at the hands of Satan when his commandment is thou shalt not kill, he then goes on to forsake him when he needed him most and turned his face away because he couldn't look at him because of the sin, which he never even committed. And let him suffer one of the most horrific deaths a human can suffer to take away our sins? So does this sound like a loving God to you? How would this murderous act save us? How can Jesus being murdered by Satan save us? How can his natural blood pouring out of his body save us? It's his death to self and his life that saves us and we have to die to self and follow him. Romans 6 this is death to self. What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptised into Jesus Christ were baptised into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin What hat, I believe in a God of love, and it breaks my heart to think that his people could believe that he would do this to Jesus, who is so soft and merciful. Satan did this to Jesus, not God. There are many aspects of Jesus going to the Cross and also the Cross itself, most if not all of which are correct. Jesus did die to self and we are committed to do the same. I think everything you say about dieing to self is correct, but it harmonizes with the idea of sacrifice; it doesn't stand against it. Jesus' death on the Cross represents the culmination of dieing to self, because Jesus could have taken himself out of the picture at any time. He had to just let it happen, like a lamb led to the slaughter, he opened not his mouth. He verified aloud with God, "if you are willing, let this Cup of suffering be taken away from me", that it was necessary to go this far. God did not crucify Jesus, but He did stand by and allow it to happen. He had the power to prevent Jesus death, but had He prevented it, mankind would not have been redeemed. In doing this, Jesus broke the power of the world and Satan that sent him to the Cross. One way I understand this is: do your absolute worst, you will not conquer the love of God. Once they had done their worst, the power of the love of God was intact. And this broke the gates of Hell. God did not forsake Jesus in terms of loving Him. He always loved Jesus as His Son, but He allowed His Son to die and to suffer. He couldn't look at it. I think the forsaking part has to be understood as a singularity; just while Jesus was suffering, and just in terms of allowing the suffering to happen. God never stopped loving Jesus. It wasn't a rejection and it wasn't cold-hearted. It was inevitable, something that had to be done. If we don't then die to self, and follow his example for the bit God gives to us, then we just haven't really understood His love. People do drift on "easy grace", the mentality that God saved me through Jesus so I don't have to do much. But no one who understands the love of God and the nature of his sacrifice would drift on God's grace. The sacrifice has to move us to follow Jesus, or we make his sacrifice, his gift, to be nothing.
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Post by maryhig on Jul 6, 2015 15:56:23 GMT -5
Hi what hat, Firstly,I believe that God giving his son of Christ coming into sinful flesh, to show us the way back to God, by showing us the way, the truth and the life, I believe he came and died in the flesh but was alive in the spirit. Bringing the love of God to us by not living to please himself but giving up his life and living to please the father. Does this sound like a loving God to you? A God who not only sacrificed his own innocent son on a wooden cross, at the hands of Satan when his commandment is thou shalt not kill, he then goes on to forsake him when he needed him most and turned his face away because he couldn't look at him because of the sin, which he never even committed. And let him suffer one of the most horrific deaths a human can suffer to take away our sins? So does this sound like a loving God to you? How would this murderous act save us? How can Jesus being murdered by Satan save us? How can his natural blood pouring out of his body save us? It's his death to self and his life that saves us and we have to die to self and follow him. Romans 6 this is death to self. What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptised into Jesus Christ were baptised into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin What hat, I believe in a God of love, and it breaks my heart to think that his people could believe that he would do this to Jesus, who is so soft and merciful. Satan did this to Jesus, not God. There are many aspects of Jesus going to the Cross and also the Cross itself, most if all of which are correct. Jesus did die to self and we are committed to do the same. I think everything you say about dieing to self is correct, but it harmonizes with the idea of sacrifice; it doesn't stand against it. Jesus' death on the Cross represents the culmination of dieing to self, because Jesus could have taken himself out of the picture at any time. He had to just let it happen, like a lamb led to the slaughter, he opened not his mouth. He verified aloud with God, "if you are willing, let this Cup of suffering be taken away from me", that it was necessary to go this far. God did not crucify Jesus, but He did stand by and allow it to happen. He had the power to prevent Jesus death, but had He prevented it, mankind would not have been redeemed. In doing this, Jesus broke the power of the world and Satan that sent him to the Cross. One way I understand this is: do your absolute worst, you will not conquer the love of God. Once they had done their worst, the power of the love of God was intact. And this broke the gates of Hell. God did not forsake Jesus in terms of loving Him. He always loved Jesus as His Son, but He allowed His Son to die and to suffer. He couldn't look at it. I think the forsaking part has to be understood as a singularity; just while Jesus was suffering, and just in terms of allowing the suffering to happen. God never stopped loving Jesus. It wasn't a rejection and it wasn't cold-hearted. It was inevitable, something that had to be done. If we don't then die to self, and follow his example for the bit God gives to us, then we just haven't really understood His love. People do drift on "easy grace", the mentality that God saved me through Jesus so I don't have to do much. But no one who understands the love of God and the nature of his sacrifice would drift on God's grace. The sacrifice has to move us to follow Jesus, or we make his sacrifice, his gift, to be nothing. Why did it have to be done?
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Post by snow on Jul 6, 2015 16:01:19 GMT -5
Actually, saying people act like beasts isn't being very fair to beasts. I think humans can be the most cruel of all animals and also the most loving of all animals. It's what you decide to choose, love or hate. And, most of the time it is a choice unless you have a brain dysfunction that does not allow you to feel empathy or other things that are required to be able to make choices. I have similar thoughts when actions of adults are compared with actions of children. "That's childish!" Somewhat insulting, at times, of children. That's true too. Never thought of that, but I agree!
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Post by maryhig on Jul 6, 2015 16:04:38 GMT -5
Hi what hat, Firstly,I believe that God giving his son of Christ coming into sinful flesh, to show us the way back to God, by showing us the way, the truth and the life, I believe he came and died in the flesh but was alive in the spirit. Bringing the love of God to us by not living to please himself but giving up his life and living to please the father. Does this sound like a loving God to you? A God who not only sacrificed his own innocent son on a wooden cross, at the hands of Satan when his commandment is thou shalt not kill, he then goes on to forsake him when he needed him most and turned his face away because he couldn't look at him because of the sin, which he never even committed. And let him suffer one of the most horrific deaths a human can suffer to take away our sins? So does this sound like a loving God to you? How would this murderous act save us? How can Jesus being murdered by Satan save us? How can his natural blood pouring out of his body save us? It's his death to self and his life that saves us and we have to die to self and follow him. Romans 6 this is death to self. What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptised into Jesus Christ were baptised into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin What hat, I believe in a God of love, and it breaks my heart to think that his people could believe that he would do this to Jesus, who is so soft and merciful. Satan did this to Jesus, not God. There are many aspects of Jesus going to the Cross and also the Cross itself, most if not all of which are correct. Jesus did die to self and we are committed to do the same. I think everything you say about dieing to self is correct, but it harmonizes with the idea of sacrifice; it doesn't stand against it. Jesus' death on the Cross represents the culmination of dieing to self, because Jesus could have taken himself out of the picture at any time. He had to just let it happen, like a lamb led to the slaughter, he opened not his mouth. He verified aloud with God, "if you are willing, let this Cup of suffering be taken away from me", that it was necessary to go this far. God did not crucify Jesus, but He did stand by and allow it to happen. He had the power to prevent Jesus death, but had He prevented it, mankind would not have been redeemed. In doing this, Jesus broke the power of the world and Satan that sent him to the Cross. One way I understand this is: do your absolute worst, you will not conquer the love of God. Once they had done their worst, the power of the love of God was intact. And this broke the gates of Hell. God did not forsake Jesus in terms of loving Him. He always loved Jesus as His Son, but He allowed His Son to die and to suffer. He couldn't look at it. I think the forsaking part has to be understood as a singularity; just while Jesus was suffering, and just in terms of allowing the suffering to happen. God never stopped loving Jesus. It wasn't a rejection and it wasn't cold-hearted. It was inevitable, something that had to be done. If we don't then die to self, and follow his example for the bit God gives to us, then we just haven't really understood His love. People do drift on "easy grace", the mentality that God saved me through Jesus so I don't have to do much. But no one who understands the love of God and the nature of his sacrifice would drift on God's grace. The sacrifice has to move us to follow Jesus, or we make his sacrifice, his gift, to be nothing. Jesus could have taken himself or of the picture at anytime yes. But then Satan would have overcome him, Jesus had to endure to the end and suffer whatever Satan threw at him, even the death on the cross. And show love, and forgiveness thus overcoming Satan and the world, God sending Jesus to die on a wooden cross at the hands of Satan to save me, makes no sense to me. But God sending Jesus to die to self and not sin, showing love and forgivness to the end of his life denying Satan even through the death on the wooden cross showing me the way, showing me that no matter what anyone does to me I must forgive and show love and he will give me the strength to do this. This does make sense to me! Although I do sin and fall. And, if I endure to the end I will be saved. But Jesus was perfect, he was the perfect sacrifice!
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