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Post by Roselyn T on May 8, 2015 1:40:01 GMT -5
Review you seem to forget a lot of us are at least 3rd or more generation B&R. We know how it works, how workers are sent from one state to another when something needs to be covered up. A recent older worker from Vic sent to Qld for example. Of course people are going to question if Allan is sent back to NSW, particularly with the past events with Steve S being sent home. As I have stated before the re-baptism of Noel Harvey is of concern to me even as an ex considering I personally know a lot of his victims & what they have been through. Nice job of avoiding the main issue by the way ! "Maybe Allan doesn't agree with Clydie re-baptising Noel Harvey ! Or does it have something to do with Steve S being sent home ...... !"
The reveals more to me of the mind of the poster than anything about those mentioned in the post. Of course it does Review, I can be as sarcastic as you can be sometimes ! But that doesn't change the facts ! I am sure there are workers that don't agree with Clyde's decision or Allan's for that matter !
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Post by Roselyn T on May 8, 2015 1:42:10 GMT -5
Actually I was also including the exes who have had 'decades ago experiences'. I think some of them who post here have been deeply hurt (a huge difference to being just bitter) and they are concerned enough for the current friends and workers to want to see changes. People need to know about their experiences so there will be less chance of the same things happening again whether it is CSA or some other problem they have been 'shunned' or pushed out of the meetings for. A good organisation and the people in it will always want to know of any problems and try to fix them. If they ever are fixed some of these people may want to come back to the meetings and isn't that what the fellowship is all about. Helping those who need it most and not just writing them off as brooding and bitter? Good point those a)who have been hurt and b) those as you say that are just bitter. My observation is that any who have been hurt post a lot less than those who are still 'out of sorts' and as you say bitter after decades. Some of the posts of the latter group are sadly are nothing short of illogical and ridiculous. Wow Review so now you tell by people posts who is bitter & who has been hurt ! People react in different ways.
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Post by Roselyn T on May 8, 2015 1:48:52 GMT -5
I wonder what group you would put the girls that Noel Harvey abused in A or B ? You don't seem to understand that hurt people sometimes become bitter !
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Post by matisse on May 8, 2015 1:58:03 GMT -5
Good post kittens, You say 'not all exes'... . You are correct Actually there are many, probably most exes are not nasty' Like most always it is a very small vocal minority that is heard. You are correct the majority are not nasty and bitter. They don't brood and post about their often decades ago experience in our church. For better or for worse a number of the minority enjoy posting on TMB. Enjoy! ;) Actually I was also including the exes who have had 'decades ago experiences'. I think some of them who post here have been deeply hurt (a huge difference to being just bitter) and they are concerned enough for the current friends and workers to want to see changes. People need to know about their experiences so there will be less chance of the same things happening again whether it is CSA or some other problem they have been 'shunned' or pushed out of the meetings for. A good organisation and the people in it will always want to know of any problems and try to fix them. If they ever are fixed some of these people may want to come back to the meetings and isn't that what the fellowship is all about. Helping those who need it most and not just writing them off as brooding and bitter? Another point is that discussion boards like TMB are a relatively recent development. Decades ago, when I left meetings, there was no internet and little chance that I would find other former members for mutual support. For better or worse, the F&W and Ex's will always be "my people"; I am glad for the opportunity to connect and participate here.
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Post by fixit on May 8, 2015 6:36:46 GMT -5
You could try telling the truth and being open and honest. Why does it matter if exes learn there's a new overseer in South Australia? Secrecy encourages speculation. Fixit Did you put your brain in gear before making this post? I simply cannot see any logic, reason or connection in your post. Enlighten me if there is a any. Thanks
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Post by Gene on May 8, 2015 10:54:45 GMT -5
Nathanyou posted: " If you don't know the answer, just say I don't KNOW. Don't try to go in circle with your answers."I am not aware doing such. Can you provide an example of such? I'll appreciate that, thanks! Gene
I understand your sentiment and agree with it. However that doesn't change my statement: "There is no need for it (sarcasm) with most posts/posters but there is a small minority where it effectively delivers the message."Gene you are no fool, absolutely not; you are very astute, in fact probably more so than many posters. Whether you agree with the use of sarcasm or not. I would think you will understand the spirit and motive behind the posts that I respond to making use of it. You wrote: You could well be right. Could you provide a few words on how you know it to be effective, and what the effect has been? Thanks, Gene
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Post by snow on May 8, 2015 10:54:59 GMT -5
Actually I was also including the exes who have had 'decades ago experiences'. I think some of them who post here have been deeply hurt (a huge difference to being just bitter) and they are concerned enough for the current friends and workers to want to see changes. People need to know about their experiences so there will be less chance of the same things happening again whether it is CSA or some other problem they have been 'shunned' or pushed out of the meetings for. A good organisation and the people in it will always want to know of any problems and try to fix them. If they ever are fixed some of these people may want to come back to the meetings and isn't that what the fellowship is all about. Helping those who need it most and not just writing them off as brooding and bitter? Good point those a)who have been hurt and b) those as you say that are just bitter. My observation is that any who have been hurt post a lot less than those who are still 'out of sorts' and as you say bitter after decades. Some of the posts of the latter group are sadly are nothing short of illogical and ridiculous. But here is the thing. There is usually a reason for someone being bitter and that reason usually is being hurt. when you simply write people off as bitter you don't explore why that may be. I am not bitter and was a bit surprised when I found TMB and saw how upset a lot of exes were. I left as soon as I could leave home and never really thought about it anymore for a lot of years. I was surprised to see a 2x2 forum actually as I never once suspected that they would be on the internet so I joined the forum to reconnect in a sense and ask questions about things I never knew and found interesting. But as a worker it makes more sense to me that you would be very interested in why they left, and why some do appear to be very hurt and now bitter so that you can possibly change those things and prevent it from happening again. I don't think it's in your best interests to lose your members or in their best interest either. Most have family still professing and by leaving they have created a division. It's sad to hear of so many that are at odds with their families just because they left. I know that leaving can be stressful when there is still family members professing. My parents were 2nd generation and professed since the 1920's. They were in their 90's when they died and they were still professing. But the sad part is they always grieved that I was not part of the Truth because they felt I was going to hell. Not being part of their religion doomed me to hell in their opinion. I lived with their beliefs and towards the end of their lives I think they finally were more accepting but I know it was an issue. I think I probably had it pretty easy compared to many who left. I was never cut off by my parents. We couldn't be as close of course, but I wasn't completely shunned like some have been. I can see how that would cause a lot of hurt and bitterness. It would be nice if that was recognized and some compassion shown for those who do feel that way. It's not the ones like me who had it pretty good that need compassion, it's the ones that you have labelled as bitter that need your kindness. If they respond in ways you don't like, maybe there is a reason for that. As kittens pointed out (great post btw kittens) some exes may return at some point or are at least considering it. Do you think they might have second thoughts regarding returning if they are bashed for their thoughts and feelings? Sarcasm only harms, creates division and as a person that is supposed to be a messenger for God I wonder if that is the right message to be sending? Compassion builds bridges, sarcasm burns bridges that could have been repaired.
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Post by snow on May 8, 2015 11:00:47 GMT -5
Actually I was also including the exes who have had 'decades ago experiences'. I think some of them who post here have been deeply hurt (a huge difference to being just bitter) and they are concerned enough for the current friends and workers to want to see changes. People need to know about their experiences so there will be less chance of the same things happening again whether it is CSA or some other problem they have been 'shunned' or pushed out of the meetings for. A good organisation and the people in it will always want to know of any problems and try to fix them. If they ever are fixed some of these people may want to come back to the meetings and isn't that what the fellowship is all about. Helping those who need it most and not just writing them off as brooding and bitter? Another point is that discussion boards like TMB are a relatively recent development. Decades ago, when I left meetings, there was no internet and little chance that I would find other former members for mutual support. For better or worse, the F&W and Ex's will always be "my people"; I am glad for the opportunity to connect and participate here. Exactly, that's how I feel too. There were no groups or forums when I left. I thought I was pretty much the only one that left. All my friends that I had as a child are still professing. So I never even dreamed there were a lot of ex members. It was a non issue to me. I still have contact with some of the friends I had back then and like you, they will always be 'my people'. We shared an important part of my life, have good memories and also some not so good, but all are part of life. I am also glad for the 'opportunity to connect and participate here' even though my beliefs are vastly different from the majority.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2015 13:09:26 GMT -5
If Allan is coming back to NSW and is still in the work then that wouldn't be a good option. Clyde is the head worker and he wouldn't like any of his workers disagreeing with his decisions. Does it have anything to do with Ian Taylor or Wayne Dean? Where is morriss? He/she started this topic and obviously now knows what is happening but is unwilling to inform anyone except to say Allan will be in NSW. Morriss started the rumour so should finish it. Nothing nasty has to be said if you just present the facts. A snippet of news is worse than no news at all because it just creates speculation. I did speak to someone about this and casually asked if they knew anything but got shot down very quickly. If anyone knew what was happening this person would have. [/quote] I have read a few of your posts and am sorry that you have not been treated with more respect. Be assured there is no big scandal concerning Alan’s return to NSW that people need worry about. I will drop you a brief PM that you may find helpful.
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Post by dmmichgood on May 8, 2015 15:43:00 GMT -5
Actually I was also including the exes who have had 'decades ago experiences'. I think some of them who post here have been deeply hurt (a huge difference to being just bitter) and they are concerned enough for the current friends and workers to want to see changes. People need to know about their experiences so there will be less chance of the same things happening again whether it is CSA or some other problem they have been 'shunned' or pushed out of the meetings for. A good organisation and the people in it will always want to know of any problems and try to fix them. If they ever are fixed some of these people may want to come back to the meetings and isn't that what the fellowship is all about. Helping those who need it most and not just writing them off as brooding and bitter? Good point those a)who have been hurt and b) those as you say that are just bitter. My observation is that any who have been hurt post a lot less than those who are still 'out of sorts' and as you say bitter after decades. Some of the posts of the latter group are sadly are nothing short of illogical and ridiculous. Well, of course! According to the Gospel of Review005!
Oh master of the TRUTH, -please teach us how to be "logical" so we won't be "ridiculous."
BTW, since there is no list, how can you know from your "observation is that any who have been hurt post a lot less than those who are still 'out of sorts' and as you say bitter after decades?
Oh, my! how can I be so dumb!
By divine revelation, of course!
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Post by fixit on May 8, 2015 16:00:08 GMT -5
Fixit The mystery gets deeper with your latest post. Go back to the post of yours that I first referred to. Please re read it and explain to me your logic and meaning in it. I can't for the life of me see what it is. My post was entirely too cryptic and I think you've taken it more personally than what I intended and that's my fault and I apologise. I retain the opinion that more openness would be beneficial and would help to reduce speculation.
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Post by fixit on May 8, 2015 16:11:56 GMT -5
Nathan I find your post entirely predictable. You quote the oft quoted trinity verses. As I said a while ago there are verses in the Bible to support the trinity camp and verses to support the non trinity camp. Yes of course you can come with verses where Jesus is referred to as God. I personally know of no friend or worker who denies his divinity. My observation and conviction is: Jesus is mostly referred to as the Son of God in the Bible. Our Heavenly Father is very often referred to God in the Bible The Holy Spirit although divine is not referred to as God the Holy Spirit in the Bible. So Nathan for this reason I am comfortable with calling Jesus the Son of God rather God the Son or God. That's fine if you wish to call him God the Son, or God... even if you concede you can offer no explanation why the writers of the Gospels referred to him as the Son of God 46 times and God the Son zero times. Forget about God the Son terminology. However, the scriptures teach Jesus is God but you don't believe this. How come? you just pick and choose which verses you believe Jesus is the Son and forget some of the verses talk about Jesus is God. You teach and believe ONLY half truth NOT the whole truth from the Bible. The Bible teaches Jesus is the Son of God and Jesus is God.Scripture teaches that Jesus is God's son, and the Holy Spirit is God's spirit. By definition a son emanates from a father. Jesus referred to himself mostly as the son of man. Why do you think he did that?
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Post by fixit on May 8, 2015 16:47:42 GMT -5
My post was entirely too cryptic and I think you've taken it more personally than what I intended and that's my fault and I apologise. I retain the opinion that more openness would be beneficial and would help to reduce speculation. I don't know what on earth you were going on about! I appreciate apologies from others and I also seek to make them this way myself where there is no second line to follow on. I find a second line really takes away from any meaning of the first line. I like to just say "I was wrong, I'm sorry, I apologise." This might be better... I retain the opinion that more openness would be beneficial and would help to reduce speculation. My post was entirely too cryptic and I think you've taken it more personally than what I intended and that's my fault and I apologise.
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Post by dmmichgood on May 8, 2015 17:06:18 GMT -5
My post was entirely too cryptic and I think you've taken it more personally than what I intended and that's my fault and I apologise. I retain the opinion that more openness would be beneficial and would help to reduce speculation. I don't know what on earth you were going on about! I appreciate apologies from others and I also seek to make them this way myself where there is no second line to follow on. I find a second line really takes away from any meaning of the first line. I like to just say "I was wrong, I'm sorry, I apologise." Review005 , Can you post where you ever once said, "I was wrong, I'm sorry, I apologize."?
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Post by dmmichgood on May 8, 2015 17:12:07 GMT -5
Good point those a)who have been hurt and b) those as you say that are just bitter. My observation is that any who have been hurt post a lot less than those who are still 'out of sorts' and as you say bitter after decades. Some of the posts of the latter group are sadly are nothing short of illogical and ridiculous. But here is the thing. There is usually a reason for someone being bitter and that reason usually is being hurt. when you simply write people off as bitter you don't explore why that may be. I am not bitter and was a bit surprised when I found TMB and saw how upset a lot of exes were. I left as soon as I could leave home and never really thought about it anymore for a lot of years. I was surprised to see a 2x2 forum actually as I never once suspected that they would be on the internet so I joined the forum to reconnect in a sense and ask questions about things I never knew and found interesting. But as a worker it makes more sense to me that you would be very interested in why they left, and why some do appear to be very hurt and now bitter so that you can possibly change those things and prevent it from happening again. I don't think it's in your best interests to lose your members or in their best interest either. Most have family still professing and by leaving they have created a division. It's sad to hear of so many that are at odds with their families just because they left. I know that leaving can be stressful when there is still family members professing. My parents were 2nd generation and professed since the 1920's. They were in their 90's when they died and they were still professing. But the sad part is they always grieved that I was not part of the Truth because they felt I was going to hell. Not being part of their religion doomed me to hell in their opinion. I lived with their beliefs and towards the end of their lives I think they finally were more accepting but I know it was an issue. I think I probably had it pretty easy compared to many who left. I was never cut off by my parents. We couldn't be as close of course, but I wasn't completely shunned like some have been. I can see how that would cause a lot of hurt and bitterness. It would be nice if that was recognized and some compassion shown for those who do feel that way. It's not the ones like me who had it pretty good that need compassion, it's the ones that you have labelled as bitter that need your kindness. If they respond in ways you don't like, maybe there is a reason for that. As kittens pointed out (great post btw kittens) some exes may return at some point or are at least considering it. Do you think they might have second thoughts regarding returning if they are bashed for their thoughts and feelings? Sarcasm only harms, creates division and as a person that is supposed to be a messenger for God I wonder if that is the right message to be sending? Compassion builds bridges, sarcasm burns bridges that could have been repaired. Snow, do you honestly think that you will ever get an answer from review005?
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hberry
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Post by hberry on May 8, 2015 17:15:26 GMT -5
I don't know what on earth you were going on about! I appreciate apologies from others and I also seek to make them this way myself where there is no second line to follow on. I find a second line really takes away from any meaning of the first line. I like to just say "I was wrong, I'm sorry, I apologise." Review005 , Can you post where you ever once said, "I was wrong, I'm sorry, I apologize."?As Review won't answer you directly, I noticed that he has apologized once, to kittens, when he called her an ex-member when she is actually a current member.
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Post by snow on May 8, 2015 17:18:37 GMT -5
But here is the thing. There is usually a reason for someone being bitter and that reason usually is being hurt. when you simply write people off as bitter you don't explore why that may be. I am not bitter and was a bit surprised when I found TMB and saw how upset a lot of exes were. I left as soon as I could leave home and never really thought about it anymore for a lot of years. I was surprised to see a 2x2 forum actually as I never once suspected that they would be on the internet so I joined the forum to reconnect in a sense and ask questions about things I never knew and found interesting. But as a worker it makes more sense to me that you would be very interested in why they left, and why some do appear to be very hurt and now bitter so that you can possibly change those things and prevent it from happening again. I don't think it's in your best interests to lose your members or in their best interest either. Most have family still professing and by leaving they have created a division. It's sad to hear of so many that are at odds with their families just because they left. I know that leaving can be stressful when there is still family members professing. My parents were 2nd generation and professed since the 1920's. They were in their 90's when they died and they were still professing. But the sad part is they always grieved that I was not part of the Truth because they felt I was going to hell. Not being part of their religion doomed me to hell in their opinion. I lived with their beliefs and towards the end of their lives I think they finally were more accepting but I know it was an issue. I think I probably had it pretty easy compared to many who left. I was never cut off by my parents. We couldn't be as close of course, but I wasn't completely shunned like some have been. I can see how that would cause a lot of hurt and bitterness. It would be nice if that was recognized and some compassion shown for those who do feel that way. It's not the ones like me who had it pretty good that need compassion, it's the ones that you have labelled as bitter that need your kindness. If they respond in ways you don't like, maybe there is a reason for that. As kittens pointed out (great post btw kittens) some exes may return at some point or are at least considering it. Do you think they might have second thoughts regarding returning if they are bashed for their thoughts and feelings? Sarcasm only harms, creates division and as a person that is supposed to be a messenger for God I wonder if that is the right message to be sending? Compassion builds bridges, sarcasm burns bridges that could have been repaired. Snow, do you honestly think that you will ever get an answer from review005? No, he pretty much ignores me. Which is fine and his right.
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Post by Mary on May 8, 2015 19:42:30 GMT -5
Good point those a)who have been hurt and b) those as you say that are just bitter. My observation is that any who have been hurt post a lot less than those who are still 'out of sorts' and as you say bitter after decades. Some of the posts of the latter group are sadly are nothing short of illogical and ridiculous. Wow Review so now you tell by people posts who is bitter & who has been hurt ! People react in different ways. Most people leave because they have simply woken up to what they were told was not true. Reading that the group was started by a man around 1897 and not Jesus was one of the things that woke me up. Being founded by Jesus was the supposed truth that our ancestors and those since were taught and believed. So disillusioned or even betrayed would be words to describe the reason for many of us leaving. Finding out that the truth was not the truth is why many leave or left. People like to label those who speak out against error as bitter as a way to shut them down, but speaking out is about telling the truth. I'm waiting for review's attacks of which he is first class on this board. People who report their abuse have been labelled as angry, unforgiving, revengeful and all sorts of names, but for most it is because of concern, Concern for others. Speaking out is more for concern (for others) than out of revenge. The root is concern not bitterness. Concern is a thought, bitterness is a feeling from a different line of thoughts.
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Post by dmmichgood on May 8, 2015 21:23:22 GMT -5
dmg, If you wish to reduce the number of times you make a fool of yourself then read a thread through before posting. (especially when you post in large size font) I ALWAYS read a thread through before posting AND I ALWAYS read my replies before posting.
I do a lot of research while I am posting so that I keep coming back to my post several different times & have to go back & edit the previous ones out.
ehum,...It's too bad that you don't seem to have an "insult check," -you know, like a "spell check."
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Post by dmmichgood on May 8, 2015 21:33:19 GMT -5
Review005 , Can you post where you ever once said, "I was wrong, I'm sorry, I apologize."? As Review won't answer you directly, I noticed that he has apologized once, to kittens, when he called her an ex-member when she is actually a current member. OMG, really?
That was just a matter of her status as an ex or current 2x2! God forbid that he would admit to any other kind of error.
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Post by dmmichgood on May 8, 2015 21:41:43 GMT -5
dmg Spell check? hmm. Not sure about that? What about 'readb4post'check? Anyway I seem to hold you spellbound, you are most everyday posting to me on tm be. I feel unworthy of such. Ah, Come on!
You love all that attention!
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Post by dmmichgood on May 8, 2015 21:52:49 GMT -5
Snow, do you honestly think that you will ever get an answer from review005? No, he pretty much ignores me. Which is fine and his right. He has a hard time with anyone who posts a well reasoned, thoughtful kind of post as yours.
Probably because he can't answer in the same well reasoned, thoughtful way, -so he just doesn't answer.
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Post by dmmichgood on May 8, 2015 21:58:06 GMT -5
I am once again amazed by Ross, the commitment and time he gives to post about the church he left 20 years ago. He speaks at length of something he describes as 'unremarkable and concludes with his customary /trademark crack at the workers based on his (questionable) perspective. Ah, and I, -I am once again amazed by review005's attention to something that I would think he shouldn't have time for while tending his flock!
Must be having too much time on his hands.
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Post by bubbles on May 8, 2015 21:58:23 GMT -5
Review005
Our lives were immersed with friends &workers a lifetime. We do have the right and freedom to speak. When I was attending I was very easyily intimidated by people with your call. Some workers I remember I will always love and have fond memories of. You have courage to speak here I will give you that. It appears that your emotions get the better of you sometimes. It would be encouraging for some exs Im sure to see you be an encourager rather than a fighter. Now and then. Im not here to fight. Ross points out things from his perspective just as fixit,curly,Mary, I and others do. Our lives took different turns. Seriously I would not want to be in your shoes. Do other workers in your country know you post?
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Post by whyisitso on May 8, 2015 22:00:54 GMT -5
I am once again amazed by Ross, the commitment and time he gives to post about the church he left 20 years ago. He speaks at length of something he describes as 'unremarkable and concludes with his customary /trademark crack at the workers based on his (questionable) perspective. And then Review follows it up with a customary/trademark crack at Ross and .... . Here. We. Go. Again!!! PS I actually didn't think Ross WAS having a crack ((your words) I thought his post was very factual ..... He ended it by saying 'I don't know what Alan preaches today' (I read that as him giving room that Alan might have a different view 20 years later - I guess it's all perspective and if you want to find an issue for the sake of finding an issue then you will) What else should/ could he say Review? :/
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Post by Roselyn T on May 8, 2015 22:11:08 GMT -5
I think Review forgets that some of us have been around for awhile and have known these workers all our lives and have had personal dealing with them !
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Post by Roselyn T on May 8, 2015 22:14:33 GMT -5
I wonder what group you would put the girls that Noel Harvey abused in A or B ? You don't seem to understand that hurt people sometimes become bitter ! Review are you still thinking about this ?
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Post by dmmichgood on May 8, 2015 22:25:42 GMT -5
I'd apologise for obviously not reading a thread and then erroneously posting large font a false statement/accusation! Baloney!
You have made plenty of nasty erroneous postings that you are not apologizing for, -a whole straw stack full!
But I'M suppose to apologize for that one little needle I missed in all that bunch of chaff that you have produced?
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