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Post by bubbles on Apr 17, 2015 22:42:39 GMT -5
Its good to have fun and a good laugh.
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 17, 2015 22:43:13 GMT -5
Nathan, I knew Narelle & her family, I went to the Convention they went to. You make statements like "Knowing her background" how do you know her background ? As to the worker well do some research yourself by getting a workers list for 1993/94 in that area. As to insinuating things as facts maybe you should go back through this thread & see all the things YOU have stated as facts that you know nothing about.
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 17, 2015 23:25:35 GMT -5
If your son had some of these signs then he was demon possessed. If he didn't then he had just a regular mental illness and need to take and stay on his medications.
Descriptions of demonic possessions often include erased memories or personalities, convulsions, "fits" and fainting as if one were dying. Other descriptions include access to hidden knowledge (gnosis) and foreign languages (glossolalia), drastic changes in vocal intonation and facial structure, the sudden appearance of injuries (scratches, bite marks) or lesions, and superhuman strength. Nathan, I can give you a medical reason for everyone of your so-called "demon possessed problems." (some times I can even give you a personal incident)Lets take them one at a time: 1) erased memories or personalities,:
Amnesia, amnesia is loss of memory. caused by brain damage, disease, or psychological trauma. (My husband woke up one morning, not able to remember anything. He would ask the same question over & over, even when you had just answered. He would immediately ask the same question forgetting that he had just asked the question and you had just answered . "What day is it?", "where am I,? He finally gradually reclaimed his memory by the afternoon, before the neurologist even got to the hospital. He was lucky to have the amnesia be so brief & never to return
2) convulsions, "fits" and fainting as if one were dying:
epilepsy! (just one cause) Epilepsy is a central nervous system disorder (neurological disorder) in which nerve cell activity in the brain becomes disrupted, causing seizures or periods of unusual behavior, sensations and sometimes loss of consciousness.
3)hidden knowledge (gnosis):
meglo-mania: noted for confabulation is a memory disturbance, defined as the production of fabricated, distorted or misinterpreted memories about oneself or the world, without the conscious intention to deceive. Think that they are some great figure, King of England, etc. 4) drastic changes in vocal intonation and facial structure: Tourette syndrome (one of many causes.) is an inherited neuropsychiatric disorder with onset in childhood, characterized by multiple physical (motor) tics and at least one vocal (phonic) tic. one of many causes. (My mother was once on a medication which caused her to make a barking sound. I recognized that it was side effect of the medicine (AND NOT THAT SHE WAS POSSESSED BY A DEMON ) and gradually worked her off the medicine)
5 ) sudden appearance of injuries (scratches, bite marks) or lesions, abuse : watch out for abuse by someone , ( in day care or nursing home, spousal or child abuse)
6) superhuman strength.:
Steroid abuse?
OOPS: almost for got: 7) foreign languages (glossolalia):
"It is verbal behaviour that consists of using a certain number of consonants and vowels[...]in a limited number of syllables that in turn are organized into larger units that are taken apart and rearranged pseudogrammatically[...]with variations in pitch, volume, speed and intensity.[7]
Glossolalia consists of strings of syllables, made up of sounds taken from all those that the speaker knows, put together more or less haphazardly but emerging nevertheless as word-like and sentence-like units because of realistic, language-like rhythm and melody.[8]
That the sounds are taken from the set of sounds already known to the speaker is confirmed by others. Felicitas Goodman, a psychological anthropologist and linguist, also found that the speech of glossolalists reflected the patterns of speech of the speaker's native language, (from wiki)
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 18, 2015 0:08:25 GMT -5
Nathan, I knew Narelle & her family, I went to the Convention they went to. You make statements like "Knowing her background" how do you know her background ? As to the worker well do some research yourself by getting a workers list for 1993/94 in that area. As to insinuating things as facts maybe you should go back through this thread & see all the things YOU have stated as facts that you know nothing about. I showed you facts and you haven't told us much about the facts which you know from many of your posts. NOTHING!Statement by Evan Jones Overseer of Victoria and Tasmania, Australia Revised Jan 12, 2007 I am 84 years old and reside at houses belonging to various members of the same Christian Faith as myself. I am presently staying at 35 Park Rd. Surry Hills. I am the Senior Minister of a fellowship that meets at various private homes through out Victoria and Tasmania. There are members of our group through out the World. In Victoria, we have about 40 ministers of the Gospel and about 2,500 members. These people meet every Sunday and on Wednesday Evenings. At these meetings we sing Hymns, we have a prayer session and then a period when each person speaks of their experience or something that has appealed to them from the scripture. We follow Teachings of the New Testament given to us by the Lord Jesus. I have been a member of this group for 70 years and my parents before me were members of the same group. I have been a Minister since 1938 when I left home to do the work of an evangelist. I have been supported since I became a Minister by people of the same faith who give voluntary donations. All the people who have forsaken their occupations and have gone forth to Minister this Gospel are supported in the same way. We have no specific name as such and have never had. There is no individual person who could claim to be the founder of our organization. We believe that this group has its origin in the mind of God before the foundation of the World and it was revealed in it's fullness in the coming of the Lord Jesus into this world and his teachings which we endeavor to follow today. We are not a Registered Church or Body of any description. We are involved with the support of Third World Organizations. We currently have over 20 ministers in foreign fields preaching, assisting and doing evangelistic work. These evangelists are sent overseas with funds raised through the group. Our organization is financially well off. The funds are controlled by a Trust Fund with the Trustees being Arthur Robinson, Alan Bird and Ian Gunst, who are elders of the Church. I am in charge of the Trustees and have the final say as to where the funds will be sent or spent. Once I make that decision, the Trustees withdraw the funds and give me a bank draft for the amount required in various areas as requested by me. The Senior Minister is usually appointed on the death or mental impairment of the outgoing overseer. He is usually nominated by the outgoing Minister to the other Senior Ministers in Australia and New Zealand and approached by them to take over. In addition to our weekly meetings, we have been gathering on the property of Mr. Fred Lowe, for one of our annual Convention for the past 20 years. We hold 5 conventions in Victoria each year. These conventions are held World wide and all run along the same lines. The purpose of these conventions is to strengthen the faith of all who believe in the teachings of Jesus. All members are there by invitation. I have known Mr. Lowe for about 50 years and have known his daughter Heather since she was a teenage girl. I have met Geoffrey, Narelle and Stephen Henderson on numerous occasions at our meetings and previous conventions. I have not had any more dealings with the Henderson Children other than they have been at meetings where I have been declaring the Gospel. Our organization has no restrictions on music, dancing, television, sport, food or anything else for that matter. We do not exercise any authority over an individuals faith. However a member of our faith would not be interested in Music, Television or the like, as life is complete without them. When sending a person overseas and they require an official document we use the letterhead of "Christian Conventions" underlined by "REPRESENTING ASSEMBLIES OF CHRISTIANS ASSUMING THIS NAME ONLY" I am aware that Narelle and Stephen Henderson are believed to have committed suicide and have left a note stating in essence that they did it rather than go to the convention. I cannot for the life of me think of any reason why they would do such a thing. Signed_______________ John Evan Jones Statement taken and signature witnessed to me at Surry Hills at 1.27 pm on the 29th of November, 1994. www.tellingthetruth.info/workers_later/jonesevan.phpHere are some FACTS that Evan Jones might NOT have known the reason why Narelle why didn't want to attend convention. Narelle choice had a great influence on her brother death also. Narelle had written in a note, mentioning Kurt Cobain (killed himself in 1993) had influence, the weeks before she killed herself in 1994. She wrote " Satan, I need help, I want to SERVE you, and be a Devil worshipper, God is DEAD and no one cares. I am planning to Kill myself Tuesday. When I die, let me be a devil, or a demon and Destroy everyone who hurts me. I might have a séance and try to communicate with Kurt Corbain. I Love him. When I die, can I meet him, please. I need to. Let me be a devil or demon, please Satan. I love you." The high school student, Narelle wrote on her arm "Kurt Corbain is a legend."
www.votisalive.com/print/3173
Someone asked me to write to Verena S. because this person might know Narrele abused by a worker.
9/18/2014
1) Hi Verena S.
Thanks, did Narelle's mother give any indication that she/Narelle was abused by a worker? Does anyone know or have any hard evidence on the abused?
Sincerely, NathanB.
2) Verena Speers replied: "No, there was nothing said about that at all. No hard evidence as there was none in any other case reported."
Nathan is this what you call knowing her background? I have seen the above letter countless times by Evan Jones & the lies he has said ! " Our organization has no restrictions on music, dancing, television, sport, food or anything else for that matter. We do not exercise any authority over an individuals faith." So from this letter you have determined that Narelle was possessed because she didn't want to go to convention !! That is the point I am trying to make Nathan, you did not know this family or Narelle but you have made statements and put them on your website as facts.
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 18, 2015 0:27:34 GMT -5
Statement by Evan Jones Overseer of Victoria and Tasmania, Australia Revised Jan 12, 2007 I am 84 years old and reside at houses belonging to various members of the same Christian Faith as myself. I am presently staying at 35 Park Rd. Surry Hills. I am the Senior Minister of a fellowship that meets at various private homes through out Victoria and Tasmania. There are members of our group through out the World. In Victoria, we have about 40 ministers of the Gospel and about 2,500 members. These people meet every Sunday and on Wednesday Evenings. At these meetings we sing Hymns, we have a prayer session and then a period when each person speaks of their experience or something that has appealed to them from the scripture. We follow Teachings of the New Testament given to us by the Lord Jesus. I have been a member of this group for 70 years and my parents before me were members of the same group. I have been a Minister since 1938 when I left home to do the work of an evangelist. I have been supported since I became a Minister by people of the same faith who give voluntary donations. All the people who have forsaken their occupations and have gone forth to Minister this Gospel are supported in the same way. We have no specific name as such and have never had. There is no individual person who could claim to be the founder of our organization. We believe that this group has its origin in the mind of God before the foundation of the World and it was revealed in it's fullness in the coming of the Lord Jesus into this world and his teachings which we endeavor to follow today.
We are not a Registered Church or Body of any description. We are involved with the support of Third World Organizations. We currently have over 20 ministers in foreign fields preaching, assisting and doing evangelistic work. These evangelists are sent overseas with funds raised through the group. Our organization is financially well off. The funds are controlled by a Trust Fund with the Trustees being Arthur Robinson, Alan Bird and Ian Gunst, who are elders of the Church. I am in charge of the Trustees and have the final say as to where the funds will be sent or spent. Once I make that decision, the Trustees withdraw the funds and give me a bank draft for the amount required in various areas as requested by me.
The Senior Minister is usually appointed on the death or mental impairment of the outgoing overseer. He is usually nominated by the outgoing Minister to the other Senior Ministers in Australia and New Zealand and approached by them to take over. In addition to our weekly meetings, we have been gathering on the property of Mr. Fred Lowe, for one of our annual Convention for the past 20 years. We hold 5 conventions in Victoria each year. These conventions are held World wide and all run along the same lines. The purpose of these conventions is to strengthen the faith of all who believe in the teachings of Jesus. All members are there by invitation.
I have known Mr. Lowe for about 50 years and have known his daughter Heather since she was a teenage girl. I have met Geoffrey, Narelle and Stephen Henderson on numerous occasions at our meetings and previous conventions. I have not had any more dealings with the Henderson Children other than they have been at meetings where I have been declaring the Gospel.
Our organization has no restrictions on music, dancing, television, sport, food or anything else for that matter. We do not exercise any authority over an individuals faith.
However a member of our faith would not be interested in Music, Television or the like, as life is complete without them.
When sending a person overseas and they require an official document we use the letterhead of "Christian Conventions" underlined by "REPRESENTING ASSEMBLIES OF CHRISTIANS ASSUMING THIS NAME ONLY" I am aware that Narelle and Stephen Henderson are believed to have committed suicide and have left a note stating in essence that they did it rather than go to the convention. I cannot for the life of me think of any reason why they would do such a thing. Signed_______________ John Evan Jones Statement taken and signature witnessed to me at Surry Hills at 1.27 pm on the 29th of November, 1994. www.tellingthetruth.info/workers_later/jonesevan.php
That is just a way of getting around something. Anyone ever in the TRUTH-WAY knows that this statement simply isn't true!
No one even has to know the family to know this isn't true. Just see how long you would have lasted if you had openly went dancing or had a television.
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Post by maryhig on Apr 18, 2015 0:43:00 GMT -5
Do you not feel though that the works of the flesh are done through letting Satan into your heart? I feel that Satan is the cause of hatred etc. So if we let Satan in our hearts then we can't inherit God's kingdom in our hearts as that's where his kingdom is in earth! Jesus said the kingdom of God is within you. We have a choice everyday, if we choose to sin, we wont receive Christ and we won't inherit Gods Holy Spirit! Our flesh when tempted leads us to sin. Lets take adultry. It can begin with someone seducing a person over time with words. The seed is planted in their mind. I wont repent for anything until im convicted by the holy spirit. That is the correct time for repentance. Some christians will tell others openly. ' YOU are a sinner you need to repent.'if a person repents to please another person then that often is ineffective. They turn around and do it again. With true repentance there is evidence of the fruit of repentance which is the person doesnt ever fall like that again. That is the reason I would not tell anyone to repent. Bible says we are to resist the devil ad he will flee from us. There is only one unforgivable sin. Blaspheming the holy spirit. Sin will always be a part of our lives. I think the only reason a person allowed satan to enter their heart would be if they openly became a satanist. I think that is forgivable too. Becoming a satanist isnt IMO blaspheming the holy spirit. Ive known satanist who came to christ. Also known murders, thieves, gang members who vomited up blood because of canabalisim in their ancestory when they had deliverance. These wild people become beautiful heart changed individuals because of Christ. What happens when people are prayed for there is a transferance of gods power from one to another. The kingdom of god from one person to another and that is how the process of laying on of hands works. Luke 10:9 Matt8:28 As for the reasons that happens. (Becoming a satanist) My opinion is that god is a god of mercy and knows all things. He knows what hurts us and breaks us. He can heal any wound. I think I just knocked over much of my needed talkin quota for the day..lol I agree with all that, and I agree that everyone has a chance of forgiveness, if they truly repent and go to God, and mean it. Not doing it for other people, just because they ask you to, but truly meaning it from your heart. But I do feel Satan can enter into our hearts if we let him. That's the suffering we have to bear, fighting wickedness and denying Satan, with Christ in our hearts we can overcome him and if we keep Christ in our hearts he won't get in. But he is always trying! God's Holy Spirit will always show us the right path to take via our conscience. But Satan is there also, tempting us, and if we let him in, he will overcome us. Satan is like a weed, because you don't have to plant or spread a weed like a seed, it just appears in the garden and always where you don't want it to be and if left the worst types can get out of control it can kill the plants. It's better to pull it out when you see it. Matthew 15 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man. Luke 22 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve Acts 5 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? Satan couldn't do the above unless he got into the heart. But it's up to us not to let him in, so when we we know something is wrong to do, then it's best to touch not, taste not and handle not. And listen to our conscience. Jesus said to the woman caught in adultery, your sins are forgiven, go sin no more. Sins in ignorance are forgiven. But you can't wilfully sin that's letting Satan in. And this is blasphemy! Matthew 12 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
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Post by matisse on Apr 18, 2015 1:55:52 GMT -5
The Unforgiveable Sin. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, yes? Just what is that?
When one denies the Holy Spirit as God, how, why should they ever expect to be forgiven, as that is the very means by which forgiveness is given and received. No, I don't even expect non-believers to comprehend this nor understand it. Let such party on in a dream world of non-belief. Not for me. The bubble burst and there is no putting it back together.
Funny about forgiveness. After my faith shattered, over time, and with considerable labor - even tears, I learned to forgive myself for being human. Once I was able to forgive myself for being human, I found, with joy, that I could forgive others for being human as well. I have come to believe that although it may take time and reflection, and in some cases, even a bit of imagination and creativity, one can always find a way to feel compassion for another human being. Interestingly, the verse "The Kingdom of Heaven is within you" probably means more to me today than it did when I was a believer.
I don't expect you to understand nor accept nor respect my experience.
"Party on!"
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 18, 2015 2:08:49 GMT -5
Narelle had written in a note, mentioning Kurt Cobain (killed himself in 1993) had influence, the weeks before she killed herself in 1994. She wrote " Satan, I need help, I want to SERVE you, and be a Devil worshipper, God is DEAD and no one cares. I am planning to Kill myself Tuesday. When I die, let me be a devil, or a demon and Destroy everyone who hurts me. I might have a séance and try to communicate with Kurt Corbain. I Love him. When I die, can I meet him, please. I need to. Let me be a devil or demon, please Satan. I love you." The high school student, Narelle wrote on her arm "Kurt Corbain is a legend."
www.votisalive.com/print/3173
Someone asked me to write to Verena S. because this person might know Narrele abused by a worker.
9/18/2014
1) Hi Verena S.
Thanks, did Narelle's mother give any indication that she/Narelle was abused by a worker? Does anyone know or have any hard evidence on the abused?
Sincerely, NathanB.
2) Verena Speers replied: "No, there was nothing said about that at all. No hard evidence as there was none in any other case reported." 1) Rose T. wrote: Nathan is this what you call knowing her background? I have seen the above letter countless times by Evan Jones & the lies he has said ! " Our organization has no restrictions on music, dancing, television, sport, food or anything else for that matter. We do not exercise any authority over an individuals faith." So from this letter you have determined that Narelle was possessed because she didn't want to go to convention !! That is the point I am trying to make Nathan, you did not know this family or Narelle but you have made statements and put them on your website as facts. According to Narrelle's note she didn't want to go conventions because he was One of Satan followers, therefore she hated going to conventions. She declared it plainly Satan was her god and master.
In USA many of the teens listen to different types of music, go dancing, playing sports in high school, going to college, wearing pants in public, etc... read what they do on their Facebook. The workers today are NOT so strict like they were in the old days! They let the Spirit teaches and convicts their hearts. They know what the workers teach.
Rose T. you haven't shown or revealed to us anything new information/Facts about Narrelle's background that we haven't read... STILL nothing!
[/quote] And I wonder why she didn't want to go to Convention ? Like I said before Nathan, contact her family & see what they have to say before you go putting rubbish on you website also check the workers list for those years ..... but of course you won't do that will you ! You justify someone like Noel Harvey & say he has repented yet you say a young girl was possessed with demons !
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 18, 2015 2:25:46 GMT -5
Nathan, I have read BOTH OF Narrelle's note's, - there were TWO of them!
She did NOT say, "she didn't want to go conventions because she was One of Satan followers, therefore she hated going to conventions. "
There were were two different notes, --one was about why they were committing suicide, -and the other NOTE was TO Satan.
You have just put the two together and have her saying something that she did NOT say!
She has been dead for eight (8) years and you still want to malign her by putting words into her mouth that she didn't say!
She was only 14 years old, -a terrible age to be!
An age when you are no longer a child but not yet an adult, - the age, when at convention you hear that, "last verse of that last song, at that last meeting, of the last day," and sometimes repeated for good measure!
The age when young people are already in such angst about life!
Yet, YOU, -you are still trying to make her possessed by a "DEMON!" - at the young age of 14 (fourteen)!
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 18, 2015 2:35:06 GMT -5
The Unforgiveable Sin. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, yes? Just what is that?
When one denies the Holy Spirit as God, how, why should they ever expect to be forgiven, as that is the very means by which forgiveness is given and received. No, I don't even expect non-believers to comprehend this nor understand it. Let such party on in a dream world of non-belief. Not for me. The bubble burst and there is no putting it back together.
Funny about forgiveness. After my faith shattered, over time, and with considerable labor - even tears, I learned to forgive myself for being human. Once I was able to forgive myself for being human, I found, with joy, that I could forgive others for being human as well. I have come to believe that although it may take time and reflection, and in some cases, even a bit of imagination and creativity, one can always find a way to feel compassion for another human being. Interestingly, the verse "The Kingdom of Heaven is within you" probably means more to me today than it did when I was a believer.
I don't expect you to understand nor accept nor respect my experience.
"Party on!" Roger that, -matisse!
Let's have a party!
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Post by maryhig on Apr 18, 2015 6:18:31 GMT -5
When one thinks about that one unforgivable sin, Blaspheming ,- it seems interesting that god gives people "free will" but not "free speech!
Heres the thing. Blaspheming speaking evil, insulting towards god? I dont think it means that. I think it would be more say someone who has known the holy spirit, seen him move in power, touching peoples hearts changing lives. Then for that person to turn away from the lord and speak untruths and lies and curse. I dont think a non believer could blaspheme and suffer the consequences because an unbeliever wouldnt understand the holy spirit. Then theres the concept of 'speaking'. When god spoke. It was so. When man speaks he can curse or bless with his mouth. The spoken word is powerful either way. Cursing brings you down. Blessing encourages you. Yes God forgives ignorance, and there's hope for everyone, and God is full of mercy. I like these verses in micah Micah 7 Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy. He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea But once we have known we must be careful of what we say and do. John 9 And Jesus said, For judgement I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind. And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also? Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth. God's people are held more accountable because we know him. When a child does something wrong and doesn't know, a good parent won't reprimand them, they will just show them what they have done wrong and guide them the right way. But when a child purposely does wrong then the parent will reprimand the child. Or else the child will carry on, and get worse. God is like this also. But I love knowing him, and I can honestly say I have never felt peace in my heart like I have now. God has taken my pain and suffering from my past and had replaced it with forgiveness and love. It's all left me, and it's wonderful to be free!
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Post by bubbles on Apr 18, 2015 7:05:56 GMT -5
Heres the thing. Blaspheming speaking evil, insulting towards god? I dont think it means that. I think it would be more say someone who has known the holy spirit, seen him move in power, touching peoples hearts changing lives. Then for that person to turn away from the lord and speak untruths and lies and curse. I dont think a non believer could blaspheme and suffer the consequences because an unbeliever wouldnt understand the holy spirit. Then theres the concept of 'speaking'. When god spoke. It was so. When man speaks he can curse or bless with his mouth. The spoken word is powerful either way. Cursing brings you down. Blessing encourages you. Yes God forgives ignorance, and there's hope for everyone, and God is full of mercy. I like these verses in micah Micah 7 Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy. He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea But once we have known we must be careful of what we say and do. John 9 And Jesus said, For judgement I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind. And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also? Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth. God's people are held more accountable because we know him. When a child does something wrong and doesn't know, a good parent won't reprimand them, they will just show them what they have done wrong and guide them the right way. But when a child purposely does wrong then the parent will reprimand the child. Or else the child will carry on, and get worse. God is like this also. But I love knowing him, and I can honestly say I have never felt peace in my heart like I have now. God has taken my pain and suffering from my past and had replaced it with forgiveness and love. It's all left me, and it's wonderful to be free! Loved your post .. I love knowing him too. Theres a number of scriptures that talk about 'what the devil meant for evil god meant for good.' We cant see the why until we have moved through it. I love to meditate on the verses that describe what happens when we give thanks and praise to him. It becomes incense which goes into the bowls under his feet and the lord is glorified. Revelations When Jesus is glorified the father is glorified. Then his presence is magnified through the holy spirit and he dwells and communes with us. He becomes magnified in us. This is how we grow in him from glory to glory. When I think on these things my heart softens and fear of man leaves. I love my god.
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Post by matisse on Apr 18, 2015 7:45:47 GMT -5
The bubble burst and there is no putting it back together.
Funny about forgiveness. After my faith shattered, over time, and with considerable labor - even tears, I learned to forgive myself for being human. Once I was able to forgive myself for being human, I found, with joy, that I could forgive others for being human as well. I have come to believe that although it may take time and reflection, and in some cases, even a bit of imagination and creativity, one can always find a way to feel compassion for another human being. Interestingly, the verse "The Kingdom of Heaven is within you" probably means more to me today than it did when I was a believer.
I don't expect you to understand nor accept nor respect my experience.
"Party on!" Roger that, -matisse!
Let's have a party!
HA! That might be fun, though if I remember correctly from discussions past, many of us are introverts....so let's make it an introvert-friendly party. Perhaps BYOB? (Bring your own book!)
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Post by xna on Apr 18, 2015 11:01:08 GMT -5
When I professed this was my understanding of the blasphemer... If a non believer shows lack of reverence or denies the Christian God, he commits blasphemy. Once that bell has been rung - it cannot be Un-rung. All hope for salvation ends for that person. The blasphemer is damned to suffer in hell for all eternity, without hope of escape. This was the greatest fear weapon to stay a believer, and to persuade the nonbelievers from thinking or saying; I don’t believe in the Christian God. In the OT the act of blasphemy was - game over. The blasphemer was to be put to death. Leviticus 24;16 “And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the LORD, shall be put to death.”In the NT it’s not game over, as we read 1 Timothy 1:12-13 “I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has strengthened me, because He considered me faithful, putting me into service, even though I was formerly a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent aggressor. Yet I was shown mercy because I acted ignorantly in unbelief”What are the real world consequences today of this kind of thinking? The religious are killing each other, and non believers because the other guy doesn’t believe in their god. This condition seems to be getting worse, especially between Muslims, and Christians. There is a real and present danger of nuclear war over religious blasphemy if Iran, or Saudi Arabia gets nukes. Acting on the belief in blasphemy is dangerous for the world. www.countercurrents.org/hashmi110415.htmwww.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2014/11/pakistan-couple-killed-blasphemy-suspicion-201411422510874131.htmlI find when christians engage in a discussion with a nonbeliever (by definition the non-believer is a blasphemer, as they show a lack of reverence for God) the believer will show the blasphemy card as the strongest and last defense when their faith is questioned. So what is the strongest and last defense of the non believer to the believer? I think it would be something like.... Time to grow up, gods are myth and imaginations. There is but one life so enjoy it.
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Post by snow on Apr 18, 2015 12:31:18 GMT -5
When I professed this was my understanding of the blasphemer... If a non believer shows lack of reverence or denies the Christian God, he commits blasphemy. Once that bell has been rung - it cannot be Un-rung. All hope for salvation ends for that person. The blasphemer is damned to suffer in hell for all eternity, without hope of escape. This was the greatest fear weapon to stay a believer, and to persuade the nonbelievers from thinking or saying; I don’t believe in the Christian God. In the OT the act of blasphemy was - game over. The blasphemer was to be put to death. Leviticus 24;16 “And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the LORD, shall be put to death.”In the NT it’s not game over, as we read 1 Timothy 1:12-13 “I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has strengthened me, because He considered me faithful, putting me into service, even though I was formerly a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent aggressor. Yet I was shown mercy because I acted ignorantly in unbelief”What are the real world consequences today of this kind of thinking? The religious are killing each other, and non believers because all because the other guy doesn’t believe in their god. This condition seems to be getting worse, especially between Muslims, and Christians. There is a real and present danger of nuclear war over religious blasphemy if Iran, or Saudi Arabia gets nukes. Acting on the belief in blasphemy is dangerous for the world. www.countercurrents.org/hashmi110415.htmwww.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2014/11/pakistan-couple-killed-blasphemy-suspicion-201411422510874131.htmlI find when christians engage in a discussion with a nonbeliever (by definition the non-believer is a blasphemer, as they show a lack of reverence for God) the believer will show the blasphemy card as the strongest and last defense when their faith is questioned. So what is the strongest and last defense of the non believer to the believer? I think it would be something like.... Time to grow up, gods are myth and imaginations. There is but one life so enjoy it. Absolutely. Religious beliefs, my god is right your's is wrong, is getting more and more dangerous for our world. The situation between Christians and Muslims does not look good for the rest of us because the two of them hold such hatred for each other. That certainly could end up in nuclear war especially if you add Israel into the equation because they do have nuclear weapons. The very topic of this thread is another way religious beliefs are dangerous. Saying mental illness is demon possession is not just offensive it is highly dangerous for those in the care of people who believe these things. The things that are going on in the States right now has the potential to be very dangerous to certain groups also.
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Post by bubbles on Apr 18, 2015 19:09:06 GMT -5
Roger that, -matisse!
Let's have a party!
HA! That might be fun, though if I remember correctly from discussions past, many of us are introverts....so let's make it an introvert-friendly party. Perhaps BYOB? (Bring your own book!)Introverts? No one comes across as introverted to me.
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 18, 2015 19:12:48 GMT -5
When I professed this was my understanding of the blasphemer... If a non believer shows lack of reverence or denies the Christian God, he commits blasphemy. Once that bell has been rung - it cannot be Un-rung. All hope for salvation ends for that person. The blasphemer is damned to suffer in hell for all eternity, without hope of escape. T his was the greatest fear weapon to stay a believer, and to persuade the nonbelievers from thinking or saying; I don’t believe in the Christian God. In the OT the act of blasphemy was - game over. The blasphemer was to be put to death. Leviticus 24;16 “And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the LORD, shall be put to death.”In the NT it’s not game over, as we read 1 Timothy 1:12-13 “I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has strengthened me, because He considered me faithful, putting me into service, even though I was formerly a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent aggressor. Yet I was shown mercy because I acted ignorantly in unbelief”What are the real world consequences today of this kind of thinking? The religious are killing each other, and non believers because the other guy doesn’t believe in their god. This condition seems to be getting worse, especially between Muslims, and Christians. There is a real and present danger of nuclear war over religious blasphemy if Iran, or Saudi Arabia gets nukes. Acting on the belief in blasphemy is dangerous for the world. www.countercurrents.org/hashmi110415.htmwww.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2014/11/pakistan-couple-killed-blasphemy-suspicion-201411422510874131.htmlI find when christians engage in a discussion with a nonbeliever (by definition the non-believer is a blasphemer, as they show a lack of reverence for God) the believer will show the blasphemy card as the strongest and last defense when their faith is questioned.
So what is the strongest and last defense of the non believer to the believer? I think it would be something like... . Time to grow up, gods are myth and imaginations. There is but one life so enjoy it. Yes, I agree, -if we spend our life worrying about getting to some great, fantastic after life, we waste the wonderful life that we have in the here & now.
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Post by bubbles on Apr 18, 2015 19:13:33 GMT -5
Xna Some of your comments seem unfair. Sounds like you group all christians in the same mold. Anyone can be excused for speaking their mind on here.
Last night I heard a wild statement about atheists. "The rising group of atheists are selfish materialists.' Seemed harsh.
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Post by bubbles on Apr 18, 2015 19:35:48 GMT -5
D I do agree we need to enjoy our life. Seize the moment!!
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Post by xna on Apr 18, 2015 19:44:06 GMT -5
Xna Some of your comments seem unfair. Sounds like you group all christians in the same mold. Anyone can be excused for speaking their mind on here. Last night I heard a wild statement about atheists. "The rising group of atheists are selfish materialists.' Seemed harsh. Which part do you think is unfair? One thing life taught me after I left the 2x2 was you need to be pleased with yourself before you can please someone else. Some people you will never please.
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Post by matisse on Apr 18, 2015 20:49:53 GMT -5
HA! That might be fun, though if I remember correctly from discussions past, many of us are introverts....so let's make it an introvert-friendly party. Perhaps BYOB? (Bring your own book!) Introverts? No one comes across as introverted to me. It's not in an anti-social kind of way. Introverts recharge by spending time alone while extroverts recharge by spending time with people. Here is a link to a brief discussion from a couple of years ago: Earlier in Snow's "What I learned today" threadI think we introverts can blend in well on-line. I spotted your question a couple of hours ago and have been thinking in the back of my mind about how to answer. Now that I have sat down to answer, I am doing so in the privacy and comfort and quietness of my home, alone with my laptop and my cats. I can type, read to see if I have said what I want to say, revise with abandon, continue to edit even after I have posted....super low stress for an introvert!
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 18, 2015 23:03:29 GMT -5
Introverts? No one comes across as introverted to me. It's not in an anti-social kind of way. Introverts recharge by spending time alone while extroverts recharge by spending time with people. Here is a link to a brief discussion from a couple of years ago: Earlier in Snow's "What I learned today" threadI think we introverts can blend in well on-line. I spotted your question a couple of hours ago and have been thinking in the back of my mind about how to answer. Now that I have sat down to answer, I am doing so in the privacy and comfort and quietness of my home, alone with my laptop and my cats. I can type, read to see if I have said what I want to say, revise with abandon, continue to edit even after I have posted....super low stress for an introvert! Indeed! I think it is the same way for me!
I always found it difficult to talk to people, one on one.
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 18, 2015 23:16:31 GMT -5
OOPS: almost for got: 7) foreign languages (glossolalia): "It is verbal behaviour that consists of using a certain number of consonants and vowels[...]in a limited number of syllables that in turn are organized into larger units that are taken apart and rearranged pseudogrammatically[...]with variations in pitch, volume, speed and intensity.[7]
Glossolalia consists of strings of syllables, made up of sounds taken from all those that the speaker knows, put together more or less haphazardly but emerging nevertheless as word-like and sentence-like units because of realistic, language-like rhythm and melody.[8]
That the sounds are taken from the set of sounds already known to the speaker is confirmed by others. Felicitas Goodman, a psychological anthropologist and linguist, also found that the speech of glossolalists reflected the patterns of speech of the speaker's native language, (from wiki) Your diagnose is faulty.... demon-Possessed speaking in known languages without study and learning it. Nathan, Read this:
"Stories of the miraculous abilities of certain individuals to read, write, speak, or understand a foreign language that appear in the Bible and other Christian religious literature went on to inspire similar accounts and stories during the Middle Ages.[6]
Claims of mediums speaking foreign languages were made by Spiritualists in the 19th century, as well as by Pentacostals in the 20th century, but these did not hold up to scientific scrutiny.
More recent claims of xenoglossy have come from reincarnation researchers who have alleged that individuals were able to recall a language spoken in a past life.[4] Some reports of xenoglossy have surfaced in the popular press, such as Czech speedway rider Matěj Kůs who in September 2007 supposedly awoke after a crash and was able to converse in perfect English; however press reports of his fluency in English were based entirely on anecdotal stories told by his Czech team-mates" from wiki
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Post by bubbles on Apr 18, 2015 23:25:51 GMT -5
Introverts? No one comes across as introverted to me. It's not in an anti-social kind of way. Introverts recharge by spending time alone while extroverts recharge by spending time with people. Here is a link to a brief discussion from a couple of years ago: Earlier in Snow's "What I learned today" threadI think we introverts can blend in well on-line. I spotted your question a couple of hours ago and have been thinking in the back of my mind about how to answer. Now that I have sat down to answer, I am doing so in the privacy and comfort and quietness of my home, alone with my laptop and my cats. I can type, read to see if I have said what I want to say, revise with abandon, continue to edit even after I have posted....super low stress for an introvert! I knew a lot of people online yrs ago and many suffered depression and were on meds. The internet does allow freedom of speach. Your house sounds similar to mine. (most of the time.)
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Post by bubbles on Apr 18, 2015 23:27:42 GMT -5
It's not in an anti-social kind of way. Introverts recharge by spending time alone while extroverts recharge by spending time with people. Here is a link to a brief discussion from a couple of years ago: Earlier in Snow's "What I learned today" threadI think we introverts can blend in well on-line. I spotted your question a couple of hours ago and have been thinking in the back of my mind about how to answer. Now that I have sat down to answer, I am doing so in the privacy and comfort and quietness of my home, alone with my laptop and my cats. I can type, read to see if I have said what I want to say, revise with abandon, continue to edit even after I have posted....super low stress for an introvert! Indeed! I think it is the same way for me!
I always found it difficult to talk to people, one on one.Gosh D. Really? Who would have thought it. Im the opposite. Great one on one. Still a bit uncomfortable in a crowded room.
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Post by matisse on Apr 18, 2015 23:33:54 GMT -5
Indeed! I think it is the same way for me!
I always found it difficult to talk to people, one on one. Gosh D. Really? Who would have thought it. Im the opposite. Great one on one. Still a bit uncomfortable in a crowded room. I like small group conversations....especially with people I know. Big parties and crowded rooms can be draining.
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 18, 2015 23:34:18 GMT -5
Nathan, Read this:
"Stories of the miraculous abilities of certain individuals to read, write, speak, or understand a foreign language that appear in the Bible and other Christian religious literature went on to inspire similar accounts and stories during the Middle Ages.[6]
Claims of mediums speaking foreign languages were made by Spiritualists in the 19th century, as well as by Pentacostals in the 20th century, but these did not hold up to scientific scrutiny.
More recent claims of xenoglossy have come from reincarnation researchers who have alleged that individuals were able to recall a language spoken in a past life.[4] Some reports of xenoglossy have surfaced in the popular press, such as Czech speedway rider Matěj Kůs who in September 2007 supposedly awoke after a crash and was able to converse in perfect English; however press reports of his fluency in English were based entirely on anecdotal stories told by his Czech team-mates" from wiki OOPS: almost for got: 7) foreign languages (glossolalia): "It is verbal behaviour that consists of using a certain number of consonants and vowels[...]in a limited number of syllables that in turn are organized into larger units that are taken apart and rearranged pseudogrammatically[...]with variations in pitch, volume, speed and intensity.[7]
Glossolalia consists of strings of syllables, made up of sounds taken from all those that the speaker knows, put together more or less haphazardly but emerging nevertheless as word-like and sentence-like units because of realistic, language-like rhythm and melody.[8]
That the sounds are taken from the set of sounds already known to the speaker is confirmed by others. Felicitas Goodman, a psychological anthropologist and linguist, also found that the speech of glossolalists reflected the patterns of speech of the speaker's native language, (from wiki) Your diagnose is faulty.... demon-Possessed speaking in known languages without study and learning it. Is that the only ones that you discount?How about the others? 1) erased memories or personalities,:
Amnesia, amnesia is loss of memory. caused by brain damage, disease, or psychological trauma. (My husband woke up one morning, not able to remember anything. He would ask the same question over & over, even when you had just answered. He would immediately ask the same question forgetting that he had just asked the question and you had just answered . "What day is it?", "where am I,? He finally gradually reclaimed his memory by the afternoon, before the neurologist even got to the hospital. He was lucky to have the amnesia be so brief & never to return
2) convulsions, "fits" and fainting as if one were dying:
epilepsy! (just one cause) Epilepsy is a central nervous system disorder (neurological disorder) in which nerve cell activity in the brain becomes disrupted, causing seizures or periods of unusual behavior, sensations and sometimes loss of consciousness.
3)hidden knowledge (gnosis):
meglo-mania: noted for confabulation is a memory disturbance, defined as the production of fabricated, distorted or misinterpreted memories about oneself or the world, without the conscious intention to deceive. Think that they are some great figure, King of England, etc. 4) drastic changes in vocal intonation and facial structure: Tourette syndrome (one of many causes.) is an inherited neuropsychiatric disorder with onset in childhood, characterized by multiple physical (motor) tics and at least one vocal (phonic) tic. one of many causes. (My mother was once on a medication which caused her to make a barking sound. I recognized that it was side effect of the medicine (AND NOT THAT SHE WAS POSSESSED BY A DEMON ) and gradually worked her off the medicine)
5 ) sudden appearance of injuries (scratches, bite marks) or lesions, abuse : watch out for abuse by someone , ( in day care or nursing home, spousal or child abuse)
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Post by bubbles on Apr 18, 2015 23:34:48 GMT -5
When I professed this was my understanding of the blasphemer... If a non believer shows lack of reverence or denies the Christian God, he commits blasphemy. Once that bell has been rung - it cannot be Un-rung. All hope for salvation ends for that person. The blasphemer is damned to suffer in hell for all eternity, without hope of escape. This was the greatest fear weapon to stay a believer, and to persuade the nonbelievers from thinking or saying; I don’t believe in the Christian God. In the OT the act of blasphemy was - game over. The blasphemer was to be put to death. Leviticus 24;16 “And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the LORD, shall be put to death.”In the NT it’s not game over, as we read 1 Timothy 1:12-13 “I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has strengthened me, because He considered me faithful, putting me into service, even though I was formerly a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent aggressor. Yet I was shown mercy because I acted ignorantly in unbelief”What are the real world consequences today of this kind of thinking? The religious are killing each other, and non believers because all because the other guy doesn’t believe in their god. This condition seems to be getting worse, especially between Muslims, and Christians. There is a real and present danger of nuclear war over religious blasphemy if Iran, or Saudi Arabia gets nukes. Acting on the belief in blasphemy is dangerous for the world. www.countercurrents.org/hashmi110415.htmwww.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2014/11/pakistan-couple-killed-blasphemy-suspicion-201411422510874131.htmlI find when christians engage in a discussion with a nonbeliever (by definition the non-believer is a blasphemer, as they show a lack of reverence for God) the believer will show the blasphemy card as the strongest and last defense when their faith is questioned. So what is the strongest and last defense of the non believer to the believer? I think it would be something like.... Time to grow up, gods are myth and imaginations. There is but one life so enjoy it. Absolutely. Religious beliefs, my god is right your's is wrong, is getting more and more dangerous for our world. The situation between Christians and Muslims does not look good for the rest of us because the two of them hold such hatred for each other. That certainly could end up in nuclear war especially if you add Israel into the equation because they do have nuclear weapons. The very topic of this thread is another way religious beliefs are dangerous. Saying mental illness is demon possession is not just offensive it is highly dangerous for those in the care of people who believe these things. The things that are going on in the States right now has the potential to be very dangerous to certain groups also. When I read your last paragraph I thought it was unfair to group people together. Not all christians are full of hatred for muslims nor muslims to christians. I would guess the radicals are the minority. I havent googled to find out. What are you referring to? ....things that are going on in the states?
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