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Post by rational on Feb 4, 2015 20:02:10 GMT -5
I think burglary should be legal. The only reason burglars steal is because they have to. People shouldn't be mean to burglars. They have rights like the rest of us and should be protected. You are really reaching to support your premise here! Burglary should indeed be legal if the burglar is offering services and the victim is willing to accept those services and the appropriate compensation is offered. But in your example I don't think this is what you had in mind. Can you explain why you want to control what goes on between consenting adults?
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Post by rational on Feb 4, 2015 20:05:23 GMT -5
A prostitute steals the integrity of their client. My understanding of the prostitution trade is that the client pays the prostitute for the services they desire. Do you think there are a lot of prostitutes who force their clients to avail themselves of their services? Can you explain what integrity is taken?
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Post by bubbles on Feb 4, 2015 20:44:12 GMT -5
In what ways are prostitutes good people? They sell something they have that other people want. If the prostitute is of age and the client is also of age why would you question if they were good? They provide a service that the public wants. Outside of your religious belief is there anything about the transaction that you consider wrong - assuming it is a free will transaction and not the product of 'slavery'. If Jim is willing to sell the use of his body to Mary for an agreed upon price why would this make either of them good or bad? Ive known prostitutes and they are like most people helpful and kind to others. They choose to sell their bodies for lucre. I dont agree with their choice of employment because I think it is degrading to women and it wouldnt appeal to me as a job. Many have been sexually abused as children. That doesnt stop me caring or befriending them.
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Post by snow on Feb 4, 2015 20:49:17 GMT -5
They sell something they have that other people want. If the prostitute is of age and the client is also of age why would you question if they were good? They provide a service that the public wants. Outside of your religious belief is there anything about the transaction that you consider wrong - assuming it is a free will transaction and not the product of 'slavery'. If Jim is willing to sell the use of his body to Mary for an agreed upon price why would this make either of them good or bad? Ive known prostitutes and they are like most people helpful and kind to others. They choose to sell their bodies for lucre. I dont agree with their choice of employment because I think it is degrading to women and it wouldnt appeal to me as a job. Many have been sexually abused as children. That doesnt stop me caring or befriending them. I agree with you Bubbles. I volunteer with those who are trying to get off the street and finish high school. I assist in a classroom that helps them get their GED (general Education Diploma) so they can go to college or university. Sometimes I help in the childcare areas too. The stories some of these girls have to tell are just horrific and so when I hear Lee saying that they steal the integrity of their clients, it just makes me realize how little he knows about them or understands what their lives are really like.
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Post by rational on Feb 4, 2015 21:23:40 GMT -5
Ive known prostitutes and they are like most people helpful and kind to others. They choose to sell their bodies for lucre. I dont agree with their choice of employment because I think it is degrading to women and it wouldnt appeal to me as a job. Many have been sexually abused as children. That doesnt stop me caring or befriending them. I agree with you Bubbles. I volunteer with those who are trying to get off the street and finish high school. I assist in a classroom that helps them get their GED (general Education Diploma) so they can go to college or university. Sometimes I help in the childcare areas too. The stories some of these girls have to tell are just horrific and so when I hear Lee saying that they steal the integrity of their clients, it just makes me realize how little he knows about them or understands what their lives are really like. I was speaking of the concept of prostitution and not specific reasons why the legal system places prostitutes at a severe disadvantage. It also seems like the focus is on female prostitutes. Are there any negatives in allowing people to sell their services?
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Post by rational on Feb 4, 2015 21:26:45 GMT -5
I dont agree with their choice of employment because I think it is degrading to women and it wouldnt appeal to me as a job. If the prostitute has chosen to sell their services how is it degrading? Is the service a massage therapist provides degrading?
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Post by Lee on Feb 4, 2015 22:17:18 GMT -5
I have no interest in participating on this subject anymore. It was a deflection from the OP anyway. Anyone who thinks prostitution is good for prostitutes or society has a mental deficiency. Goodbye!
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Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Feb 4, 2015 23:05:06 GMT -5
Is the issue whether or not selling one's body gives them a distorted picture of what gives their life value? Is there any evidence for this? It sort of makes sense to me.
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Post by snow on Feb 4, 2015 23:20:50 GMT -5
I agree with you Bubbles. I volunteer with those who are trying to get off the street and finish high school. I assist in a classroom that helps them get their GED (general Education Diploma) so they can go to college or university. Sometimes I help in the childcare areas too. The stories some of these girls have to tell are just horrific and so when I hear Lee saying that they steal the integrity of their clients, it just makes me realize how little he knows about them or understands what their lives are really like. I was speaking of the concept of prostitution and not specific reasons why the legal system places prostitutes at a severe disadvantage. It also seems like the focus is on female prostitutes. Are there any negatives in allowing people to sell their services? None that I can see when it is consenting adults. I wish it was legalized so that they had better protection. It seems to work fine in countries that do legalize it, though I must admit I haven't studied up on it a great deal, so I could be wrong.
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Post by bubbles on Feb 4, 2015 23:21:21 GMT -5
I dont agree with their choice of employment because I think it is degrading to women and it wouldnt appeal to me as a job. If the prostitute has chosen to sell their services how is it degrading? Is the service a massage therapist provides degrading? Prostitution by its content turns the female into an object of sex. Rather than women being nurtured and cherished by the male species. They are adored and worshiped for a mans sole pleasure whether abusive,perverted, fetishes, or otherwise. How many are pleasured for who they are? After the act paid and left to their own devices. Women are emotional sensitive creatures. Prostitution has its place in society but I dont know how much it keeps rapist and peadophiles off the street. All women deserve respect honor because they are the gentler sex.
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Post by bubbles on Feb 4, 2015 23:23:25 GMT -5
I dont agree with their choice of employment because I think it is degrading to women and it wouldnt appeal to me as a job. If the prostitute has chosen to sell their services how is it degrading? Is the service a massage therapist provides degrading? Lol...sometimes one and the same?
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Post by dmmichgood on Feb 4, 2015 23:31:45 GMT -5
I have no interest in participating on this subject anymore. It was a deflection from the OP anyway. Anyone who thinks prostitution is good for prostitutes or society has a mental deficiency. Goodbye! Well, I believe that you entered the thread with your comment:"Pornography reduces procreation to a pleasure. Selling it should always be a crime."
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Post by dmmichgood on Feb 4, 2015 23:38:04 GMT -5
Is the issue whether or not selling one's body gives them a distorted picture of what gives their life value? Is there any evidence for this? It sort of makes sense to me. No, the real issue is whether someone selling sex, as long as it is with their consent, is their right to do so.
Why they do so may actually give value to their life or the lives of others.
It really isn't ours to decide whether it has anything to do with giving value to their lives .
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Post by dmmichgood on Feb 4, 2015 23:51:57 GMT -5
If the prostitute has chosen to sell their services how is it degrading? Is the service a massage therapist provides degrading? Prostitution by its content turns the female into an object of sex. Rather than women b eing nurtured and cherished by the male species. They are adored and worshiped for a mans sole pleasure whether abusive,perverted, fetishes, or otherwise. How many are pleasured for who they are? After the act paid and left to their own devices. Women are emotional sensitive creatures. Prostitution has its place in society but I dont know how much it keeps rapist and peadophiles off the street. All women deserve respect honor because they are the gentler sex. Oh, Bubbles! come into the 21th Century !
Tell me when women were ever "nurtured and cherished by the male species?"
That was a load of crap that the male species used through out history to keep women in their place (subservient to the men) without control of their lives or the institutions that ruled over them.
Women as too "emotional,sensitive creatures and were the gentler sex" was an argument used to keep women from getting the vote,!
They couldn't even vote for the people who made that laws that controlled their very lives!
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Post by slowtosee on Feb 5, 2015 0:24:33 GMT -5
Is the issue whether or not selling one's body gives them a distorted picture of what gives their life value? Is there any evidence for this? It sort of makes sense to me. No, the real issue is whether someone selling sex, as long as it is with their consent, is their right to do so.
Why they do so may actually give value to their life or the lives of others.
It really isn't ours to decide whether it has anything to do with [focolor="060b76"]giving value to their lives. I fail to see how "sex tourism" adds value to women. Maybe financially, but not really value? Surely was revolting to observe in Thailand, and although it was between consenting adults, (and sometimes"childten"), I do not understand how it should be supported. It was very degrading, it seemed like. Trading money for sex is not really adding "value" to women, imo. Alvin Edit. My post starts at I fail to see....
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Post by dmmichgood on Feb 5, 2015 1:01:42 GMT -5
You seem to have gotten your post mixed in with mine. I makes it appear all my post which of course is not.
This yours:
"I fail to see how "sex tourism" adds value to women. Maybe financially, but not really value? Surely was revolting to observe in Thailand, and although it was between consenting adults, (and sometimes"childten"), I do not understand how it should be supported. It was very degrading, it seemed like. Trading money for sex is not really adding "value" to women, imo. Alvin
I will try to address your post. "Sex tourism" is not between consenting adults & children.
Certainly no ethical person would ever condone such criminal offenses & the absolute disregard for human rights.
This is NOT what I am talking about.
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Post by bubbles on Feb 5, 2015 6:40:18 GMT -5
My father was a nurturing loving devoted man to his family. He had good morals and taught me that women as the weaker sex deserve love and care. Not abuse in any way shape or form. He respected women. He felt for any female that was not treated with respect and honor. While it is purely a persons choice to sell their body. It doesnt make it right. I question how the self esteem of these people are they age.my opinions come more from my fathers influence than my christian beliefs.
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Post by slowtosee on Feb 5, 2015 9:35:35 GMT -5
My father was a nurturing loving devoted man to his family. He had good morals and taught me that women as the weaker sex deserve love and care. Not abuse in any way shape or form. He respected women. He felt for any female that was not treated with respect and honor. While it is purely a persons choice to sell their body. It doesnt make it right. I question how the self esteem of these people are they age.my opinions come more from my fathers influence than my christian beliefs. I was also blessed to have a father and family, that respected and cherished women. I suppose , from a physical strength viewpoint, maybe women were viewed as the "weaker sex", but certainly not viewed as the "weaker sex" overall. There were and are some very "strong" women in our family , and they are cherished and respected, bigtime. I don't view women as "the weaker sex". hmmmm, I can't even imagine having a baby........ Alvin
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Post by slowtosee on Feb 5, 2015 9:57:12 GMT -5
You seem to have gotten your post mixed in with mine. I makes it appear all my post which of course is not.
This yours: "I fail to see how "sex tourism" adds value to women. Maybe financially, but not really value? Surely was revolting to observe in Thailand, and although it was between consenting adults, (and sometimes"childten"), I do not understand how it should be supported. It was very degrading, it seemed like. Trading money for sex is not really adding "value" to women, imo. Alvin
I will try to address your post. "Sex tourism" is not between consenting adults & children.
Certainly no ethical person would ever condone such criminal offenses & the absolute disregard for human rights.
This is NOT what I am talking about.
. Somehow my mobile phone mistakenly makes text appear like yours. Sorry. The people I was speaking about are consenting adults , who are trading money for sex. It is legal and their right to do so, even making it a major tourist attraction, in many places, but I still fail to see that as adding Real value to women . Quite the opposite. (Technically, of course, Thailand says prostitution is "illegal ). Alvin
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Post by rational on Feb 5, 2015 11:43:25 GMT -5
I have no interest in participating on this subject anymore. It was a deflection from the OP anyway. Anyone who thinks prostitution is good for prostitutes or society has a mental deficiency. Goodbye! Prostitution is neither good nor bad for prostitutes - it is the definition of what a prostitute does. Perhaps there should be a new thread to explore what people should and should not be allowed to do with their bodies. You have voiced your opinions but seem reluctant to offer any reasons for your condemnation.
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Post by snow on Feb 5, 2015 12:10:38 GMT -5
I think if Lee spent any amount of time working with prostitutes in the capacity that I have, he would have a very different understanding of the whole situation. He might not be so quick to condemn. But that is usually what causes us to condemn, an inadequate understanding of the subject, person or situation.
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Post by bubbles on Feb 5, 2015 12:56:54 GMT -5
My father was a nurturing loving devoted man to his family. He had good morals and taught me that women as the weaker sex deserve love and care. Not abuse in any way shape or form. He respected women. He felt for any female that was not treated with respect and honor. While it is purely a persons choice to sell their body. It doesnt make it right. I question how the self esteem of these people are they age.my opinions come more from my fathers influence than my christian beliefs. I was also blessed to have a father and family, that respected and cherished women. I suppose , from a physical strength viewpoint, maybe women were viewed as the "weaker sex", but certainly not viewed as the "weaker sex" overall. There were and are some very "strong" women in our family , and they are cherished and respected, bigtime. I don't view women as "the weaker sex". hmmmm, I can't even imagine having a baby........ Alvin Yes Alvin. There are no 'weak ' women in mine either. Least of all my mother. I probably used the wrong term for want of a better word.
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Post by dmmichgood on Feb 5, 2015 17:09:31 GMT -5
My father was a nurturing loving devoted man to his family. He had good morals and taught me that women as the weaker sex deserve love and care.
Not abuse in any way shape or form. He respected women. He felt for any female that was not treated with respect and honor. While it is purely a persons choice to sell their body. It doesnt make it right. I question how the self esteem of these people are they age. my opinions come more from my fathers influence than my christian beliefs. Men taught that women were the weaker sex & "deserve love and care" & while at the same time they gave them their seat on the bus, when they got off the bus they went to their office where they dictated letters to the secretary, the same woman on the bus.
She could only take the dictation & type the letters to the powers that affected her own life, while at the same time had no voice in the matter.
A big return for the man for the small token of giving up your seat!
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Post by dmmichgood on Feb 5, 2015 18:17:16 GMT -5
My father was a nurturing loving devoted man to his family. He had good morals and taught me that women as the weaker sex deserve love and care. Not abuse in any way shape or form. He respected women. He felt for any female that was not treated with respect and honor. While it is purely a persons choice to sell their body. It doesnt make it right. I question how the self esteem of these people are they age.my opinions come more from my fathers influence than my christian beliefs. Who has the right to judge whether it is "right?"
Think their "self esteem " is as much a concern as their economic ability to care for themselves?
And your father's opinions were no doubt was influenced by Christians beliefs.
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Post by snow on Feb 5, 2015 18:26:20 GMT -5
My father was a nurturing loving devoted man to his family. He had good morals and taught me that women as the weaker sex deserve love and care.
Not abuse in any way shape or form. He respected women. He felt for any female that was not treated with respect and honor. While it is purely a persons choice to sell their body. It doesnt make it right. I question how the self esteem of these people are they age. my opinions come more from my fathers influence than my christian beliefs. Men taught that women were the weaker sex & "deserve love and care" & while at the same time they gave them their seat on the bus, when they got off the bus they went to their office where they dictated letters to the secretary, the same woman on the bus.
She could only take the dictation & type the letters to the powers that affected her own life, while at the same time had no voice in the matter.
A big return for the man for the small token of giving up your seat!
You were treated ok as long as you knew your place. Submitted and didn't make waves. Since I always seemed to make waves I remember my father telling my husband that he had to use a firm hand on me because I was a 'strong willed woman'. That was the mindset. He would have said women were to be protected, but it was usually this protection that kept women in their 'place'.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2015 7:30:45 GMT -5
I would like to see women (feminists to be precise) put in the front lines of the next major wars. Instead of hearing of 50,000 men dying at the Somme, for instance, we will hear "50,000 women casualties."
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Post by rational on Feb 6, 2015 10:16:01 GMT -5
I would like to see women (feminists to be precise) put in the front lines of the next major wars. Instead of hearing of 50,000 men dying at the Somme, for instance, we will hear "50,000 women casualties." Are you thinking like the scene in The Intervention of the Sabine Women?
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Post by fixit on Feb 6, 2015 12:48:08 GMT -5
I would like to see women (feminists to be precise) put in the front lines of the next major wars. Instead of hearing of 50,000 men dying at the Somme, for instance, we will hear "50,000 women casualties." Watch the video on this page, and you'll see that women are on the front lines: www.liveleak.com/view?i=44e_1377363030
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