Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2015 6:21:55 GMT -5
Is there an OT and NT God? You would think so going by the internet and numerous books on the subject.
The myth goes there is an Old Testament God and a New Testament God. As Dawkins would put it, the OT God "is a sh.. " as opposed to Jesus being a "milksop persona." Why teach this? To give the impression that God is made up.
Luke 19, Worth reading.
Summary Jesus tells the richest man in Jericho (Zacchaeus) he is going to stay with him.
Jesus tells a parable about a Noble giving talents to ten servants and then condemning the one who correctly called the Noble an "austere man" who "reaps where he hasn't sown." Then the Noble gave the single talent to the one who already had ten. Then the Noble has those rebellious citizens slain before his eyes.
Then Jesus says everyone who has shall be given more, and those with nothing will have whatever they have taken from them.
Jesus takes the donkey. He didn't ask, he took it as if it was his own.
Jesus then tells the Jews their enemy will destroy everything - even their children.
He then enters the Temple and throws out the money changers (who's job it was to facilitate temple worship.)
At the end of this chapter the Jews sought to destroy Jesus. It isn't hard to see why - five times the Jews murmured against him. Those saw him as arrogant, exclusive, judgmental, narrow-minded, indifferent to anyone who didn't believe in him, assuming that what he saw was his own, unfair and cruel.
And not just Jews, but try and find this Jesus in most church today. You won't.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Jan 27, 2015 12:12:32 GMT -5
How can God not be made up? There isn't one person who doesn't have their own understanding of who and what God is. There are guidelines in sacred books, but in the end it is a very personal understanding is it not? We as a species seem to need some kind of reassurance that there is an afterlife and that there is a parent figure watching over us, loving us and willing to help us when we ask for help. But that is also a very unique and personal phenomena. Once you realize how impossible these different versions of God can be, it is no longer a comfort to try and believe in them. It's impossible actually. I remember when I came to this realization how alone I felt and it took quite awhile to understand how to live without a God to go to for everything. But I now understand how I was using the concept of God as a crutch in my life and though I did have some of the beliefs about the Christian God I grew up with, I know my understanding of that God was a different from others as anyone's is. You have to have faith to believe in something that has no proof of existing, has never been seen etc. I found I could no longer lie to myself.
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Jan 27, 2015 17:22:43 GMT -5
How can God not be made up? There isn't one person who doesn't have their own understanding of who and what God is. There are guidelines in sacred books, but in the end it is a very personal understanding is it not? We as a species seem to need some kind of reassurance that there is an afterlife and that there is a parent figure watching over us, loving us and willing to help us when we ask for help But that is also a very unique and personal phenomena. Once you realize how impossible these different versions of God can be, it is no longer a comfort to try and believe in them. It's impossible actually. I remember when I came to this realization how alone I felt and it took quite awhile to understand how to live without a God to go to for everything. But I now understand how I was using the concept of God as a crutch in my life and though I did have some of the beliefs about the Christian God I grew up with, I know my understanding of that God was a different from others as anyone's is. You have to have faith to believe in something that has no proof of existing, has never been seen etc. I found I could no longer lie to myself. I agree, snow.
I had to realize that was the reason that I believed in god, I needed parent figure watching over me.
When I realized that, I knew that I simply needed to grow up.
As you said, with that realization I felt alone and it took quite awhile.
I had to start taking responsibility & start making decisions for myself with none of the excuses that religious people make such as, "It is the will of God" etc.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2015 1:32:34 GMT -5
And do you believe that since the decline in Christianity that people are more mature, responsible, loyal and honest?
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Jan 28, 2015 1:41:57 GMT -5
And do you believe that since the decline in Christianity that people are more mature, responsible, loyal and honest? Yep.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2015 1:53:51 GMT -5
Okay, "Prove it."
Take on board welfare dependency, teenage pregnancy, mainstreaming of gambling, prostitution and porn etc.. Loyalty to country, brand and community has lessened. Responsibility is becoming collective rather than personal. Some speak of a "Peter Pan Syndrome."
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Jan 28, 2015 2:31:00 GMT -5
Okay, "Prove it." Take on board welfare dependency, teenage pregnancy, mainstreaming of gambling, prostitution and porn etc.. Loyalty to country, brand and community has lessened. Responsibility is becoming collective rather than personal. Some speak of a "Peter Pan Syndrome." What you state as welfare is one of the things that is better than the days you seem to morn for. People aren't put out on the streets to beg.
All pregnancies are actually declining, including teen pregnancies, as more birth control methods have become more available. Whether you like it or not that happens to be a good thing for the health of women & their families. (actually the whole world)
Gambling is a problem only i f someone becomes addicted.
Prostitution isn't increasing where women have better ways of making a living for themselves & their families.
"Porn" is only a problem for people who believe sex is a sin.
Loyalty to country, brand?? and community hasn't lessened just because we aren't all wearing the rose tinted glasses as we did in the past and now acknowledge our country's not always virtuous past.
Taking Responsibility for our own actions instead of saying they are the "Will of god" happens to be a good thing.
Don't bother yourself with the "Peter Pan Syndrome," the "immature" male.
Think about the immaturity of religion that makes so many people still hang onto a "parent figure watching over them." THAT is immaturity!
|
|
|
Post by Mary on Jan 28, 2015 4:16:49 GMT -5
Come on dmm... you can do better than that. So you would have no problem with your husband looking at Porn or looking at it your self?
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Jan 28, 2015 4:31:23 GMT -5
Come on dmm... you can do better than that. So you would have no problem with your husband looking at Porn or looking at it your self? It usually treats woman as sex objects. Mary, whether I or my husband might want to view "porn" (erotica) really hasn't anything to do with the subject.
Some men & women both like to view erotic, sometimes even together.
It wouldn't be such a big deal if Augustine hadn't put so much emphasis on sex as a sin.
Never mind that he himself had a child by woman too "beneath his class" to marry.
|
|
|
Post by Mary on Jan 28, 2015 4:37:17 GMT -5
A lot of people do not think porn is good and nothing to do with thinking sex is a sin. Wouldn't the porn addicts love that as an excuse. I took out the words it treats women as sex objects as porn can be males too. And children.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2015 5:59:36 GMT -5
Quote - "Think about the immaturity of religion that makes so many people still hang onto a "parent figure watching over them." THAT is immaturity!"
Do you think that is what people in the bible actually sought, to have someone "watching over them?" What is it when Jesus spoke of those who obeyed, and those who wouldn't obey, "Whoever falls upon this stone will be broken, but upon whoever it falls, it will grind them to powder."
|
|
|
Post by xna on Jan 28, 2015 12:15:47 GMT -5
Some say; "god is a conservative - Jesus was a liberal" "Lewis Black - The Old Testament" a very funny bit on the OT vs. the NT from a Jewish perspective. Warning has a few "bad words", but all in all for Lewis Black, this is "clean".www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGrlWOhtj3g
|
|
|
Post by snow on Jan 28, 2015 14:54:59 GMT -5
Okay, "Prove it." Take on board welfare dependency, teenage pregnancy, mainstreaming of gambling, prostitution and porn etc.. Loyalty to country, brand and community has lessened. Responsibility is becoming collective rather than personal. Some speak of a "Peter Pan Syndrome." What you state as welfare is one of the things that is better than the days you seem to morn for. People aren't put out on the streets to beg.
All pregnancies are actually declining, including teen pregnancies, as more birth control methods have become more available. Whether you like it or not that happens to be a good thing for the health of women & their families. (actually the whole world)
Gambling is a problem only i f someone becomes addicted.
Prostitution isn't increasing where women have better ways of making a living for themselves & their families.
"Porn" is only a problem for people who believe sex is a sin.
Loyalty to country, brand?? and community hasn't lessened just because we aren't all wearing the rose tinted glasses as we did in the past and now acknowledge our country's not always virtuous past.
Taking Responsibility for our own actions instead of saying they are the "Will of god" happens to be a good thing.
Don't bother yourself with the "Peter Pan Syndrome," the "immature" male.
Think about the immaturity of religion that makes so many people still hang onto a "parent figure watching over them." THAT is immaturity!
Thank you dmg. So much about our world is improving. The things that are not are usually the things that get stuck up on old religious OT rules that people still seem to think are relevant. All the things that Bert has mentioned have been around forever. As the world improves in human rights we will see less problems. It may not be the world Bert wants to see, but it will be a better one imo.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2015 16:30:20 GMT -5
I fully acknowledge all the good which is happening in the world. I like to remind people that there are fewer wars than at anytime before. Fewer people in abject poverty. In Aust fewer young people drinking and smoking. It's hard to believe, but there is less violence against women worldwide. From slate.com comes this revealing article which I would like to digest. www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2014/12/the_world_is_not_falling_apart_the_trend_lines_reveal_an_increasingly_peaceful.htmlBut again, there's nuances in this argument about whether the world is going to hell in a basket. For example, less drinking and smoking but more drugs. How do we measure if the world is getting better or worse? If we for instance increased the number of police and security personnel; installed literally millions of CCD's; legalized drugs, prostitution, pornography, public drinking, adultery etc then of course crime stats will "show" we are getting "better." It's an interesting topic - should be a thread all of its own and not distracting from a subject few wish to discuss.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Jan 28, 2015 20:07:26 GMT -5
In some ways, it's been the illegal status of some of the things you mention that have drawn people to them in the past. Not entirely of course, but there will always be a group of people that will do something just because of the thrill of doing something illegal.
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Jan 28, 2015 20:44:07 GMT -5
I fully acknowledge all the good which is happening in the world. I like to remind people that there are fewer wars than at anytime before. Fewer people in abject poverty. In Aust fewer young people drinking and smoking. It's hard to believe, but there is less violence against women worldwide. From slate.com comes this revealing article which I would like to digest. www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2014/12/the_world_is_not_falling_apart_the_trend_lines_reveal_an_increasingly_peaceful.htmlBut again, there's nuances in this argument about whether the world is going to hell in a basket. For example, less drinking and smoking but more drugs. How do we measure if the world is getting better or worse? If we for instance increased the number of police and security personnel; installed literally millions of CCD's; legalized drugs, prostitution, pornography, public drinking, legalized drugs, prostitution, pornography, public drinking, adultery etc then of course crime stats will "show" we are getting "better." It's an interesting topic - should be a thread all of its own and not distracting from a subject few wish to discuss. Just curious, Bert. How have they legalized adultery?
Hasn't "public drinking" had been legal since Prohibition had been revoked?
What new "drugs" have they legalized?
Prostitution would better all around if it were legalized as it has been in some countries. Sex workers would be protected from the abuse that they often suffer now.
Pornography, erotica, -is a right to view sexual media without considering it to be a crime.
|
|
|
Post by Lee on Jan 28, 2015 23:34:51 GMT -5
Pornography reduces procreation to a pleasure. Selling it should always be a crime.
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Jan 28, 2015 23:59:32 GMT -5
Pornography reduces procreation to a pleasure. Selling it should always be a crime. Come off of it, lee!
Now you are sounding like (St)Augustine or the Pope!
|
|
|
Post by Lee on Jan 29, 2015 0:05:25 GMT -5
If you're not for criminalizing the sale of pornography you're an enabler of exploitation.
|
|
|
Post by Lee on Jan 29, 2015 0:13:24 GMT -5
The OT is God revealing himself to man visa vie a nation. God embedded himself in the evolutionary strata when he took possession of a nation to reveal his name. Culminating in his son, he cut the crap and showed his cards. That went over so well with the people they killed him.
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Jan 29, 2015 0:17:37 GMT -5
Pornography reduces procreation to a pleasure. Selling it should always be a crime. What other genre of information do you think is a crime?
Birth control info?
No doubt you would have right there beside old Anthony Comstock, United States Postal Inspector who as ideas of what might be "obscene, lewd, or lascivious" were quite broad.
During his time of greatest power, even some anatomy textbooks were prohibited from being sent to medical students by the United States Postal Service.He was the driving force behind imprisoning Margaret Sanger for sending birth control literature through the mail!
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Jan 29, 2015 0:20:39 GMT -5
If you're not for criminalizing the sale of pornography you're an enabler of exploitation. Baloney!
If you think it is pornography that enables exploitation of women or men, you have a lot yet to learn.
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Jan 29, 2015 0:24:27 GMT -5
The OT is God revealing himself to man visa vie a nation. God embedded himself in the evolutionary strata when he took possession of one nation to reveal his name. Culminating in his son, he cut the crap and showed his cards. That went over so well with the people they killed him. The OT was a saga of a warrior God created by a tribe of people who wanted have a backing for the invasion & conquering of the other tribes around them.
|
|
|
Post by Lee on Jan 29, 2015 0:33:58 GMT -5
If you're not for criminalizing the sale of pornography you're an enabler of exploitation. Baloney!
If you think it is pornography that enables exploitation of women or men, you have a lot yet to learn.
Sounds like you're agreeing with me.
|
|
|
Post by Lee on Jan 29, 2015 0:34:20 GMT -5
The OT is God revealing himself to man visa vie a nation. God embedded himself in the evolutionary strata when he took possession of one nation to reveal his name. Culminating in his son, he cut the crap and showed his cards. That went over so well with the people they killed him. The OT was a saga of a warrior God created by a tribe of people who wanted have a backing for the invasion & conquering of the other tribes around them.
How do you know?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2015 0:48:49 GMT -5
Dmmichgood Quote - "The OT was a saga of a warrior God created by a tribe of people who wanted have a backing for the invasion & conquering of the other tribes around them." Lee Quote - "How do you know?"
I think Dmmichgood knows because he/she has been reading books, surfing the internet or watching movies about the bible. The ACTUAL OLD TESTAMENT is about the covenanted relationship between God and His creation. Two major themes are: God's blessing symbolized by land - the Promised Land given to the Jews. God's redemption symbolized the blood of the lamb - the promise of the Messiah.
In that God promised that the Jews would TWICE lose and TWICE be restored to their land, we are in one sense living in Old Testament times today.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2015 0:50:44 GMT -5
Just curious, Bert. How have they legalized adultery? Most cultures, including our own until the 17th Century, saw adultery as punishable by death.
Hasn't "public drinking" had been legal since Prohibition had been revoked? Yes and no. Thats not what I meant.
What new "drugs" have they legalized? Marijuana is currently being legalized around the world. Crack, Ice, Meth, Heroin etc will follow. Authorities are simply giving up.
Prostitution would better all around if it were legalized as it has been in some countries. Sex workers would be protected from the abuse that they often suffer now. I suspect there's more of it now. And there's less of a scandal attached to it.
Pornography, erotica, -is a right to view sexual media without considering it to be a crime. This is not about "rights" but the prevalence of behavior once seen as impermissible. Today "porn" is scarcely recognizable as porn. A friend of mine told me yesterday she was going to see Fifty Shades of Grey. I was surprised as I didn't know she was "into" that sort of movie. Quote from Morality in Media "humiliation, manipulation, abuse, and degradation of women. Sexual violence and sexual exploitation are at an all time high, permeating our culture by way of hardcore pornography and now praised by films like Fifty Shades of Grey."
|
|
|
Post by Lee on Jan 29, 2015 1:18:19 GMT -5
Pornography reduces procreation to a pleasure. Selling it should always be a crime. What other genre of information do you think is a crime?
Birth control info?
No doubt you would have right there beside old Anthony Comstock, United States Postal Inspector who as ideas of what might be "obscene, lewd, or lascivious" were quite broad.
During his time of greatest power, even some anatomy textbooks were prohibited from being sent to medical students by the United States Postal Service.He was the driving force behind imprisoning Margaret Sanger for sending birth control literature through the mail!
Are you saying pornography and sex education are one and the same?
|
|