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Post by xna on Jan 1, 2015 20:44:49 GMT -5
Do you think that people would be more or less kind and loving to one another, and in the absence of the fear of God, would there be many more violent crimes like murder etc. would many more folks be more ruthless and cruel/heartless? Would there be a sort of universal " law of the jungle" where the fittest in societies would survive? Would there be far greater immorality? What would there be to hold people back if it were not for the belief that an Almighty God is watching over us? To me, humans with all their gods are more violent than most animals in the Jungle. Bonobo must think we are like the chimpanzees, than bonobo's. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Na0veo9xEq0
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 1, 2015 21:17:11 GMT -5
And why do Good things happen to bad people? Why does the sun shine on the righteous as well as the unrighteous? I have convinced myself that in such matters, ours is not to reason why, because such knowledge is too wonderful for us mortal beings. We don't know what the future holds for any of us, but scripture teaches us that God holds the future. The Psalmist wrote that his feet had nigh on to have slipped when he considered the evil and how they prospered in their lifetime...all the riches they obtained, all the privileges they had, etc...then he sent on to say much later in the Psalm...." Until I went into the sanctuary of God, then I understood their end."Then he went on to say that God reserved these evil or ungodly people to use when the time came for whatever the need was. An example I consistently think of is the Pharaoh of Moses' day! God told Pharaoh that God had made Pharaoh who he was and for the reason that God's name would go out into all the countrysides and be glorified! In other words, the world is just GOD'S chess board and we poor creatures are the Chess men(and women)
There are a few Kings & Queens, Bishops (don't forget the bishops ) but most of us are only pawns, worth very little. 'nough said. The Psalmist must have happened onto the game room (sanctuary) where he found God & Satan at a game of chess!
That would indeed cause the Psalmist to understand quite a lot.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2015 4:15:26 GMT -5
I understand your position and I respect you for declaring it so boldly. Do you think that the world would have been a much better place if there was never any mention about God, heaven, hell, commandments, religeon etc.? Do you think that people would be more or less kind and loving to one another, and in the absence of the fear of God, would there be many more violent crimes like murder etc. would many more folks be more ruthless and cruel/heartless? Would there be a sort of universal " law of the jungle" where the fittest in societies would survive? Would there be far greater immorality? What would there be to hold people back if it was not for the belief that an Almighty God is watching over us? Well the world survived just fine and probably no more violently before the birth of the Christian God. Hinduism and Buddhism entered the world before Judaism or Christianity. They weren't perfect either, but they also have attempted to give guidelines of how to live a more fulfilling, peaceful and loving life. So do I think religion has no place? No, I think it probably had it's place, but I also believe those days are quickly declining and there is far more need for an understanding of how humanity can work and live together in greater harmony. Unfortunately, the very thing that was used to make people more loving and compassionate has now declined to a place where it is used to justify division and judgment on groups that do not agree with them. Watching a debate last night really brought that to light in a very big way. There was an atheist, a couple of traditional Christians, but not fundamentalists, a gay ordained priest and a fundamentalist Christian. The fundamentalist Christian was the only one that could not allow the others to have their views, because it was rigidly set in his mind that if it wasn't the way he understood the bible, then it wasn't right and could not be condoned. He even called down the gay priest telling him he would should be very careful and that he felt that Jesus would turn him away when he died. It is pretty disgusting listening to that kind of rhetoric in this day and age, where more and more people are beginning to see the violence and danger in that kind of thought. More and more people are trying to allow people to have their own beliefs without condemning them to an eternity of hell. while most of these people always like to add the caveat 'I will let God be the judge', you know very well what they really think. They have decided where you are going and that you are a sinner that is lost. Once someone holds that mindset about another person, it is very easy to deny them their humanity and easier to do things to them that imitate the actions of the OT God, or the God of the Quran and justify their willingness to do harm in God's name. It is seen when groups wish to bring their own beliefs into government and impose them on others that hold different beliefs. Just some of the thoughts I have about rigid religious beliefs. Beautiful when loving, dangerous when judging. Thanks, snow, fair comment.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2015 4:35:02 GMT -5
I understand your position and I respect you for declaring it so boldly. Do you think that the world would have been a much better place if there was never any mention about God, heaven, hell, commandments, religion etc.? Do you think that people would be more or less kind and loving to one another, and in the absence of the fear of God, would there be many more violent crimes like murder etc. would many more folks be more ruthless and cruel/heartless? Would there be a sort of universal " law of the jungle" where the fittest in societies would survive? Would there be far greater immorality? What would there be to hold people back if it were not for the belief that an Almighty God is watching over us? Partaker, do you think that the world HAS been a better place because of a belief in "God, heaven, hell, and the commandments?"
There is a factor in evolutionary biology concerning people being cooperative & treating one another with justice & kindness.
If "God is watching over them" is all that is holding people back from acting unkindly toward their fellowmen doesn't that mean they aren't very in control of themselves?
I don't know if it would have been a better place, but I believe it could have been a worse place. I believe that the fear of God might have held a lot of people back from wrong doing.
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Post by rational on Jan 2, 2015 8:43:26 GMT -5
Looks like another question that basically we all agree on the answer. I don't know. Cool. Alvin Not so fast! The question was: Why does God allow suffering and pain?The answer "I don't know." only works is you first of all believe in a paranormal being. Otherwise the question is as meaningful as "Why does the pink giraffe drink blue paint?" Pain and suffering, along with a multitude of other things, happen. Some people take steps to reduce the probability of the negative evens or at least reduce the severity. Others do not.
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Post by rational on Jan 2, 2015 8:53:13 GMT -5
I understand your position and I respect you for declaring it so boldly. Do you think that the world would have been a much better place if there was never any mention about God, heaven, hell, commandments, religeon etc.? I believe that man's creation and establishment of organized religion has caused more pain and suffering that any other invention of man.If your behavior is based on the fear os a being that can cause you more harm than you can cause that entity, there is little home that your behavior will be based on positive traits.People will imitate the model they are following. It would be a more honest model.Moral and immoral behavior is not dependent on organized religion.You have got to be kidding. Do you really believe good behavior is the result of the fear that a paranormal being is watching and ready to punish people? Do you really believe that every immoral act is punished by the all seeing, all knowing, all powerful being you call god?
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Post by slowtosee on Jan 2, 2015 9:39:35 GMT -5
Looks like another question that basically we all agree on the answer. I don't know. Cool. Alvin Not so fast! The question was: Why does God allow suffering and pain?The answer "I don't know." only works is you first of all believe in a paranormal being. Otherwise the question is as meaningful as "Why does the pink giraffe drink blue paint?" Pain and suffering, along with a multitude of other things, happen. Some people take steps to reduce the probability of the negative evens or at least reduce the severity. Others do not. Ah, ok. I was on the wrong question. Keep on talking about existence or not of God. Let me know once you all have resolved that one, then we can proceed on to other questions. Alvin
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Post by Johnny DeRaad on Jan 2, 2015 9:54:51 GMT -5
again. .the source of pain and sorrows is identified above. . Christ is the one who can alleviate that . .and will, but if you are not willing to look to him then you stand alone. ..and God does definitely allow gravity to happen to all men Did You misunderstand what I said?
I didn't say, "God is NOT to blame" I said that, "There isn't any god to blame."
In other words, "There is no god."
The idea of God was created by man & exists in people's minds.
God did NOT create "man" in god's image; man DID create a god in man's image!
Man also created the whole rigamarole of "guys in red suit..pointy horns .. pitchfork" as well as angels, heaven, hell, etc.
As for Christ,- he also was created by man as well. (As well as many other gods & christs have been created) Christ hasn't alleviated the "suffering & pain" in the world, even for those who already "look to him. "
It is better to face reality and know that we already stand alone.
yup ..got it . ..so because you said it ..it's fact . .why should my statement be any less fact ..a simple response of fact rebutting your fact . . ... if you haven't had a God experience then I very much understand why your in the position your in . .but when you have then there isn't anyone who'll ever be able to put you back in that box .. . and it isn't about a religion ..it's about knowing Him and being aware He's there . .I do . . I wish that for you because it changes everything ..
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Post by rational on Jan 2, 2015 10:35:40 GMT -5
Not so fast! The question was: Why does God allow suffering and pain?The answer "I don't know." only works is you first of all believe in a paranormal being. Otherwise the question is as meaningful as "Why does the pink giraffe drink blue paint?" Pain and suffering, along with a multitude of other things, happen. Some people take steps to reduce the probability of the negative evens or at least reduce the severity. Others do not. Ah, ok. I was on the wrong question. Keep on talking about existence or not of God. Let me know once you all have resolved that one, then we can proceed on to other questions. Alvin I was responding to your comment stating we were all in agreement with the answer "I don't know" and not debating whether or not there actually is a god. Just to let you know - Unless you have some new evidence regarding the existence of god I have resolved that question.
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Post by slowtosee on Jan 2, 2015 10:42:52 GMT -5
Again, I was on the wrong question, which I inappropriately had asked earlier. There is mostly only interest in the debate of existence or not of God,of which you have already come to a conclusive opinion. Carry on. Alvin
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2015 10:50:00 GMT -5
Did You misunderstand what I said?
I didn't say, "God is NOT to blame" I said that, "There isn't any god to blame."
In other words, "There is no god."
The idea of God was created by man & exists in people's minds.
God did NOT create "man" in god's image; man DID create a god in man's image!
Man also created the whole rigamarole of "guys in red suit..pointy horns .. pitchfork" as well as angels, heaven, hell, etc.
As for Christ,- he also was created by man as well. (As well as many other gods & christs have been created) Christ hasn't alleviated the "suffering & pain" in the world, even for those who already "look to him. "
It is better to face reality and know that we already stand alone.
yup ..got it . ..so because you said it ..it's fact . .why should my statement be any less fact ..a simple response of fact rebutting your fact . . ... if you haven't had a God experience then I very much understand why your in the position your in . .but when you have then there isn't anyone who'll ever be able to put you back in that box .. . and it isn't about a religion ..it's about knowing Him and being aware He's there . .I do . . I wish that for you because it changes everything .. I think I'll take a break from this board. Things are starting to get out of hand. This guy's talking sense!
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Post by placid-void on Jan 2, 2015 11:03:19 GMT -5
Pain and suffering.
I begin thinking about both by setting "God" aside for awhile and just thinking about 'pain and suffering' as I have known them.
Over the years, my wife has taught me that "pain is inevitable" but "suffering is optional". She suffers from a nasty chronic condition (lupus) and her capacity to manage the ravages of the disease defies description.
For me, pain is a messenger. Pain is the way that my body tells me something is out of kilter (and often requires some sort of attention).
But pain is also a teacher. Has anyone else had the experience of feeling pain and then realizing that the action or behavior that led to the pain was probably unwise and the pain could have been avoided?
Pain provides context. Has anyone ever burned their finger on the stove and then thought about a person with 1st degree burns over 50-60% of their bodies?
Pain provides grounding for empathy. I find that expressions of compassion has a deeper resonance when expressed by one who has experienced comparable pain.
What my wife has taught me is that suffering is a natural, reasonable and even rational response to pain. But just as pain is often beyond one's control, suffering is very much within one's control. Each person sets their own thresholds as to the pain they can tolerate and function. Pain beyond that threshold will cause suffering. For pain below that threshold, suffering is optional, it is the individuals choice if the benefit they will receive from expressions of suffering will surpass the the benefit of acknowledging the pain and then proceeding with life as presented.
Sometimes I wonder, in the absence of pain/suffering could there be compassion? In the absence of compassion how might the experience of love be altered?
Mere musings of an old man but I have found them constructive contributors to the weightier questions of beliefs.
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Post by snow on Jan 2, 2015 12:14:30 GMT -5
Do you think that the world would have been a much better place if there was never any mention about God, heaven, hell, commandments, religeon etc.? Do you think that people would be more or less kind and loving to one another, and in the absence of the fear of God, would there be many more violent crimes like murder etc. would many more folks be more ruthless and cruel/heartless? Would there be a sort of universal " law of the jungle" where the fittest in societies would survive? Would there be far greater immorality? What would there be to hold people back if it were not for the belief that an Almighty God is watching over us? Very important question. I find the Scientific method to be the most reliable way of knowing. You might enjoy this short talk by Paul Bloom, Professor of Psychology and Cognitive Science at Yale University on this topic. www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPr1N6XVYWsI think he hit quite a few things that I believe too. One thing I have always wondered about is why some religious take the 'positive' things taught by their religion and live them while others seem to focus on the 'negative' things their religions teach them and live more by them. It would seem to have more to do with the personality of the 'believer' as to which kind of things they focus on in their religious beliefs. For example, those who focus on the couple of verses in Leviticus to justify their feelings about homosexuals, seem to be the kind that focus on the negatives and tend to be more into the teachings that everyone goes to hell that do not believe as they do. Whereas those who follow the positive things in the bible or other sacred books, tend to ignore the negatives and focus more on the love, compassion teachings. So does this mean we are predestined due to our personalities to either take religious beliefs and make them into horrific actions, or become a loving compassionate human being? It would be the same for atheists of course. Are their personalities the determination of how they will act in this world more than any code of ethics? It seems from this speech that it is a sense of community that makes humans more likely to be loving and generous for atheists anyway. Seems for believers this can go either direction depending on the mindset of the group they are born into.
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Post by snow on Jan 2, 2015 12:39:04 GMT -5
Pain and suffering. I begin thinking about both by setting "God" aside for awhile and just thinking about 'pain and suffering' as I have known them. Over the years, my wife has taught me that "pain is inevitable" but "suffering is optional". She suffers from a nasty chronic condition (lupus) and her capacity to manage the ravages of the disease defies description. For me, pain is a messenger. Pain is the way that my body tells me something is out of kilter (and often requires some sort of attention). But pain is also a teacher. Has anyone else had the experience of feeling pain and then realizing that the action or behavior that led to the pain was probably unwise and the pain could have been avoided? Pain provides context. Has anyone ever burned their finger on the stove and then thought about a person with 1st degree burns over 50-60% of their bodies? Pain provides grounding for empathy. I find that expressions of compassion has a deeper resonance when expressed by one who has experienced comparable pain. What my wife has taught me is that suffering is a natural, reasonable and even rational response to pain. But just as pain is often beyond one's control, suffering is very much within one's control. Each person sets their own thresholds as to the pain they can tolerate and function. Pain beyond that threshold will cause suffering. For pain below that threshold, suffering is optional, it is the individuals choice if the benefit they will receive from expressions of suffering will surpass the the benefit of acknowledging the pain and then proceeding with life as presented. Sometimes I wonder, in the absence of pain/suffering could there be compassion? In the absence of compassion how might the experience of love be altered? Mere musings of an old man but I have found them constructive contributors to the weightier questions of beliefs. I agree with most of what you have said about suffering yknot but I question your 'question' about whether there can be compassion in the absence of pain/suffering. I think there can be. They may not understand the depth of suffering, but that doesn't need to prevent compassion. In fact, sometimes those who have experienced chronic pain for a long time have less compassion for others in the same boat because they think if they can handle the pain, others should be able to too. I have met people like that in groups for chronic pain sufferers.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 2, 2015 20:01:33 GMT -5
Did You misunderstand what I said?
I didn't say, "God is NOT to blame" I said that, "There isn't any god to blame."
In other words, "There is no god."
The idea of God was created by man & exists in people's minds.
God did NOT create "man" in god's image; man DID create a god in man's image!
Man also created the whole rigamarole of "guys in red suit..pointy horns .. pitchfork" as well as angels, heaven, hell, etc.
As for Christ,- he also was created by man as well. (As well as many other gods & christs have been created) Christ hasn't alleviated the "suffering & pain" in the world, even for those who already "look to him. "
It is better to face reality and know that we already stand alone.
yup ..got it . ..so because you said it ..it's fact . .why should my statement be any less fact ..a simple response of fact rebutting your fact . Did I say anything about facts? I was simply trying to understand what I had said. . ... if you haven't had a God experience then I very much understand why your in the position your in . . but when you have then there isn't anyone who'll ever be able to put you back in that box .. . and it isn't about a religion ..it's about knowing Him and being aware He's there . .I do . . I wish that for you because it changes everything .. I was simply trying to clear up my post to the thread called, "Why does God allow suffering and pain?"
I felt my statement: "Why? There isn't any god to blame." wasn't very clear.
As for your statement... "if you haven't had a God experience then I very much understand why your (you're) in the position your (you're) in . ."
I've HAVE had what you call "a God experience," I therefore can tell you I realize just how that that so-called experience is only a product of one's mind.
Thank you for your concern (wish) but that "experience" won't happen again unless my brain becomes impaired & therefore my mind does also.
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Post by placid-void on Jan 2, 2015 20:57:19 GMT -5
I agree with most of what you have said about suffering yknot but I question your 'question' about whether there can be compassion in the absence of pain/suffering. I think there can be. They may not understand the depth of suffering, but that doesn't need to prevent compassion. In fact, sometimes those who have experienced chronic pain for a long time have less compassion for others in the same boat because they think if they can handle the pain, others should be able to too. I have met people like that in groups for chronic pain sufferers. Your point is well taken, snow. Your point about being able to express compassion even though one may not have experienced the depth of pain and your point about those who take the position if they can handle the pain why can't others are very valid points and I agree with both. The idea that I was reaching for (and did not express well) was a more theoretical question intended to reach toward the question raised in the opening post. Sometimes I try to conceive of a world in which there is neither pain or suffering, what would that world be like? I have trouble imagining a role for compassion in a world in which there is no suffering. And beyond that I have difficulty imagining the nature of love in a world that needs no compassion. These are idle musing of the "what if" variety but have no basis in factual reality. The value of the "what if" questions for me is that it makes me think that perhaps both pain and suffering in fact serve very meaningful and useful roles in our development both as a species and as individuals. To me, the "value of pain and suffering" seems to be a question or concept worth contemplation. Perhaps if I were rephrasing the question of the opening post, I probably would not ask "Why does God allow suffering and pain", since I think there may be constructive value to both pain and suffering (and how we respond to both) that contributes to our development as individuals and as a species. Rather, I find myself conflicted by the question "What value emerges from one individual inflicting pain and suffering on another individual" or phrased more closely to the opening post - "Why does God allow one to inflict suffering and pain on another?" I suspect that evolutionary psychologists can construct teleological responses to this question relating to kinship groups and clan formation in support of survival, but I perceive the ice to be thin as we reach for these understandings.
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Post by placid-void on Jan 2, 2015 21:26:20 GMT -5
Another question that comes to mind as I try to think my way through the question in the opening post is this:
In a world in which there is neither pain or suffering, would there be a need for religious belief?
It seems to me that the absence of pain and suffering would reduce the need/desire for comforting.
In some ways the desire for understanding is a consequence of a desire for comfort. If we believe that we can explain our environment, we will feel comforted by that understanding and the sense of "control" that accompanies understanding.
But if our desire/need for comforting is reduced (since pain and suffering is not allowed in this make-believe world), then our need for understanding might be reduced as well. In the absence of a drive to understand, we would be less likely to seek explanations either in the form of a "God" or "the scientific method".
If we don't seek a "God", there is no need for religion, but neither is there a need for objective reasoning.
It seems that I have argued myself into a corner of stasis and ultimately regression. Is it possible that "pain and suffering" are actually a necessary part of the whole?
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 2, 2015 22:09:12 GMT -5
Another question that comes to mind as I try to think my way through the question in the opening post is this: In a world in which there is neither pain or suffering, would there be a need for religious belief? It seems to me that the absence of pain and suffering would reduce the need/desire for comforting. In some ways the desire for understanding is a consequence of a desire for comfort. If we believe that we can explain our environment, we will feel comforted by that understanding and the sense of "control" that accompanies understanding. But if our desire/need for comforting is reduced (since pain and suffering is not allowed in this make-believe world), then our need for understanding might be reduced as well. In the absence of a drive to understand, we would be less likely to seek explanations either in the form of a "God" or "the scientific method". If we don't seek a "God", there is no need for religion, but neither is there a need for objective reasoning. I t seems that I have argued myself into a corner of stasis and ultimately regression. Is it possible that "pain and suffering" are actually a necessary part of the whole? Thanks, yknot!
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who sometimes does that! (argue myself into a corner of stasis and ultimately regression.)
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Post by rational on Jan 2, 2015 23:22:01 GMT -5
. if you haven't had a God experience then I very much understand why your in the position your in . .but when you have then there isn't anyone who'll ever be able to put you back in that box .. . and it isn't about a religion ..it's about knowing Him and being aware He's there . .I do . . I wish that for you because it changes everything .. It might be interesting to know what you consider a "God experience" and how do you know that others have not had the same experience as you have but simply attribute it to a more prosaic cause? Many use the word 'miracle' to describe easily explainable events. Care to share?
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Post by rational on Jan 2, 2015 23:30:34 GMT -5
It seems that I have argued myself into a corner of stasis and ultimately regression. Is it possible that "pain and suffering" are actually a necessary part of the whole? Pain and suffering are as much a part of reality as comfort and joy. Without them life would be pablum! All, on some level, are the result of taking a risk.
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Post by snow on Jan 3, 2015 0:24:15 GMT -5
Another question that comes to mind as I try to think my way through the question in the opening post is this: In a world in which there is neither pain or suffering, would there be a need for religious belief? It seems to me that the absence of pain and suffering would reduce the need/desire for comforting. In some ways the desire for understanding is a consequence of a desire for comfort. If we believe that we can explain our environment, we will feel comforted by that understanding and the sense of "control" that accompanies understanding. But if our desire/need for comforting is reduced (since pain and suffering is not allowed in this make-believe world), then our need for understanding might be reduced as well. In the absence of a drive to understand, we would be less likely to seek explanations either in the form of a "God" or "the scientific method". If we don't seek a "God", there is no need for religion, but neither is there a need for objective reasoning. It seems that I have argued myself into a corner of stasis and ultimately regression. Is it possible that "pain and suffering" are actually a necessary part of the whole? Which leads me to believe that this world is a perfect place to experience whatever we want to. There is endless opportunity to learn to love, show compassion, or the opposite. But without the opposite life would definitely not be as interesting. That's one reason why I have always felt heaven to be a boring place, with all that bliss ha! I think the polarities help us to have a fuller physical experience. Whatever that might mean.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2015 5:48:55 GMT -5
Why does God allow suffering and pain? Virgo, your question appears to make an assumption that God allows suffering and pain but yet you don't clarify why you make that assumption. Could it be that you believe (a) God to be loving and (b) God to be all powerful and that what you are attempting to do here to resolve the contradiction between a supposedly loving God and a God who allows terrible things to happen? For me, the great flaw in your question is your assumption that God allows things to happen which probably explains why no one has been able to provide you with a satisfactory answer. I think God makes a lot more sense if you accept that God doesn't allow things to happen. It's not the case that God makes a choice as to whether to allow pain and suffering to happen but rather that God cannot prevent pain and suffering happening. Of course that doesn't make Him a bad God. It just makes Him a marginally less powerful God than you'd been led to imagine. If one has a pitchfork inserted in one's bottom then pain and suffering are inevitable. God cannot do a thing to prevent the pain and suffering happening. Pitchforks hurt and that's that. Neither does God care about the pain and suffering. The idea that God looks down upon a man with a pitchfork stuck in his bottom and thinks, dear me that is awful, I wonder should I do something about his pain and suffering ... is absurd. If God really could do something about pain and suffering surely there would be at least one example throughout history of a man having a pitchfork inserted in his bottom and being immune from any pain and suffering. But there isn't. Just like there isn't a single example of God ever restoring a missing limb, preventing the pain that comes with having an abscess in one's tooth or bringing a dead dog back to life to ease the pain that comes with the loss to the pet owner. Again not having the power to do something doesn't make Him a bad God. Just a rather different type of God than you'd come to imagine. For me it's much better to believe in a God who cannot prevent pain and suffering than a God who can, but chooses instead to stand idly by while observing it happening. So perhaps the question you should be asking is not why does God allow pain and suffering but rather can God prevent pain and suffering? And the answer is clearly that He can't. Matt10
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2015 7:15:43 GMT -5
We have been indoctrinated from way back when, and many of us believe, that with God all things are possible. We believe that He created us and gave us free will to make choices- the freedom to choose. He does not force anyone to do anything, either we believe or we choose not believe.
I think that the question posed is valid as it is based on the belief that with God all things are possible. It is possible for him to prevent pain and suffering but chooses not to for reasons best known to Himself.
ps. Isn't pain and suffering part of the path Jesus marked out? If He is our example then I think that we can expect to have to endure these things to the end.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2015 7:21:45 GMT -5
Personally I think Matt 10 needs to have a think about this guy with the pitchforks? Isn't it the god of this world who goes around sticking pitchforks into peoples' bums?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2015 7:44:31 GMT -5
Maybe we should turn the issue on its head: I have a friend who is rich, and can't understand anyone who struggles financially. She has never been sick, and has no time for people who talk about their health struggles. She has been popular all her life, and can't understand people who are lonely. She is attractive and had no time for unattractive people. Basically she has no feelings for anyone because life has been so good to her. I wound up feeling more sorry for her than I did for those who are lonely, down and out, or sick.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2015 7:57:51 GMT -5
Personally I think Matt 10 needs to have a think about this guy with the pitchforks? Isn't it the god of this world who goes around sticking pitchforks into peoples' bums? Trust you to come up with that one!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2015 7:58:02 GMT -5
Maybe we should turn the issue on its head: I have a friend who is rich, and can't understand anyone who struggles financially. She has never been sick, and has no time for people who talk about their health struggles. She has been popular all her life, and can't understand people who are lonely. She is attractive and had no time for unattractive people. Basically she has no feelings for anyone because life has been so good to her. I wound up feeling more sorry for her than I did for those who are lonely, down and out, or sick. Rather than feeling sorry for her, Bert, I think you need to go and find a pitchfork! Remember, before you use it, tell her, her shoe lace is undone!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2015 8:03:15 GMT -5
Life apparently was good for King Solomon. Unlike his father he never had to struggle for anything - and at the end of days, as shown in his book Leviticus, he had grown dark and cold in himself.
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