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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2014 18:31:33 GMT -5
Wasn't Noah's ark actually found on Mount Ararat in Turkey? yes i forget the name of the explorer who seen it first, most recently a team of people visited the ark and it was still there buried in the ice.... Wally, I read that somewhere recently but can't remember where. A guy down the pub told me they'd found a couple of dead dodos inside the ark together with seven perfectly preserved Irish Elk. Matt10
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Post by xna on Dec 21, 2014 18:35:13 GMT -5
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 21, 2014 19:01:51 GMT -5
The archaeologist Leonard Woolley discovered evidence for one flood as his team dug through the ruins of Ur. They found eight feet of clean soil between two layers of pottery and flint implements. Don't know, just sayin' They have evidence of a dozen such floods in Arizona. And in Nevada they find sea shells in their gardens at 5,000 feet above sea level. Must have been a tsunami during the great flood.
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 21, 2014 19:08:18 GMT -5
Wasn't Noah's ark actually found on Mount Ararat in Turkey? I think there's one in Kentucky too ... or is it Tennessee?
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Post by placid-void on Dec 21, 2014 19:25:28 GMT -5
They have evidence of a dozen such floods in Arizona. And in Nevada they find sea shells in their gardens at 5,000 feet above sea level. Must have been a tsunami during the great flood. I love the progression, don’t you? In this one short thread we have gone from: Flood. to What flood? to How big a flood? to Where was the flood? to There have been lots of floods (perhaps with tsunamis on top)! . . . Who’s on first?
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Post by xna on Dec 21, 2014 19:39:37 GMT -5
They have evidence of a dozen such floods in Arizona. And in Nevada they find sea shells in their gardens at 5,000 feet above sea level. Must have been a tsunami during the great flood. I love the progression, don’t you? In this one short thread we have gone from: Flood. to What flood? to How big a flood? to Where was the flood? to There have been lots of floods (perhaps with tsunamis on top)! . . . Who’s on first? There may well have been was a global flood but of molten rock not water during the Hadean Eon. Interesting video for those who like new commandment # 2. Strive to understand what is most likely to be true, not to believe what you wish to be true. youtu.be/Odf8HAqXsTQ
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 21, 2014 19:53:16 GMT -5
I love the progression, don’t you? In this one short thread we have gone from: Flood. to What flood? to How big a flood? to Where was the flood? to There have been lots of floods (perhaps with tsunamis on top)! . . . Who’s on first? There may well have been was a global flood but of molten rock not water during the Hadean Eon. Interesting video for those who like new commandment # 2. Strive to understand what is most likely to be true, not to believe what you wish to be true. youtu.be/Odf8HAqXsTQSo can you reproduce this? Huh??? Duhhh!!! I knew the Bible was right. But what does the Bible really say about HOW the earth was formed? Come on, guys, think of something.
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Post by placid-void on Dec 21, 2014 20:06:41 GMT -5
Kitschy coo . . . .
Isn't it possible to tickle even the remotest expression of a latent sense of humor?
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Post by dmmichgood on Dec 21, 2014 20:14:56 GMT -5
yes i forget the name of the explorer who seen it first, most recently a team of people visited the ark and it was still there buried in the ice.... Wally, I read that somewhere recently but can't remember where. A guy down the pub told me they'd found a couple of dead dodos inside the ark together with seven perfectly preserved Irish Elk. Matt10 Matt, were those Irish Elk "wee" elk, you know, like those "wee" folk the Irish see?
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Post by snow on Dec 21, 2014 22:23:31 GMT -5
Then how did they survive after they got out of the ark? Everything would have been destroyed. Even if they took seeds on board with them they would have to wait for any of it to grow so they could eat. Why do some versions say that Noah took 7 each and another version says he took 2 of each. The story is a revamp of the Sumarian myth of the great flood which was taken from earlier sources, likely oral in nature. I have no problem believing the region had a great flood, but the whole world? No way I can believe that. www.livius.org/fa-fn/flood/flood2.html Noah's family brought a lot of food in the Ark, so they had plenty of food to survive after the flood of water is gone. The story world wide flood is found around the world.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_mythswww.earthage.org/EarthOldorYoung/scientific_evidence_for_a_worldwide_flood.htmNo boat made in those days is large enough for all the different animals never mind enough food for all of them. You have to remember that there is a huge span of time between landing on dry ground and growing enough to feed all the animals what they required. The problem of eucalyptus alone is an issue for the koala bears. Yes most cultures do have a flood story, but that doesn't mean they were anything but regional floods and that is very believable. Tell me where enough water to cover the highest mountains world wide came from and then tell me where all that water went again? All your aliens inside of the hollow earth would be drowned Nathan.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2014 22:29:20 GMT -5
No boat made in those days is large enough for all the different animals never mind enough food for all of them. You have to remember that there is a huge span of time between landing on dry ground and growing enough to feed all the animals what they required. The problem of eucalyptus alone is an issue for the koala bears. Yes most cultures do have a flood story, but that doesn't mean they were anything but regional floods and that is very believable. Tell me where enough water to cover the highest mountains world wide came from and then tell me where all that water went again? All your aliens inside of the hollow earth would be drowned Nathan. it came from the windows of heaven and from under the earth......my opinion: the earth once it had voided itself of underground water then collapsed in on itself giving us our oceans today... funny that if regional they all(100%) believe there was a global flood...
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Post by snow on Dec 21, 2014 22:29:41 GMT -5
One thing I have never understood is why God needed a flood to kill everything and everyone and why he had to kill any of the animals at all. Seems like an awful lot of work to go to when he could have just waved his hand and annihilated everything he wanted annihilated and voila, just Noah and his family?
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Post by snow on Dec 21, 2014 22:30:37 GMT -5
No boat made in those days is large enough for all the different animals never mind enough food for all of them. You have to remember that there is a huge span of time between landing on dry ground and growing enough to feed all the animals what they required. The problem of eucalyptus alone is an issue for the koala bears. Yes most cultures do have a flood story, but that doesn't mean they were anything but regional floods and that is very believable. Tell me where enough water to cover the highest mountains world wide came from and then tell me where all that water went again? All your aliens inside of the hollow earth would be drowned Nathan. it came from the windows of heaven and from under the earth......my opinion: the earth once it had voided itself of underground water then collapsed in on itself giving us our oceans today... So you don't agree with Nathan that the earth is hollow?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2014 22:32:39 GMT -5
it came from the windows of heaven and from under the earth......my opinion: the earth once it had voided itself of underground water then collapsed in on itself giving us our oceans today... So you don't agree with Nathan that the earth is hollow? no i don't believe in a hollow earth....
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2014 22:37:22 GMT -5
One thing I have never understood is why God needed a flood to kill everything and everyone and why he had to kill any of the animals at all. Seems like an awful lot of work to go to when he could have just waved his hand and annihilated everything he wanted annihilated and voila, just Noah and his family? he could have done it that way but i think there needed to be noahs faith involved also in building the ark, gathering in all the food and then the animals as a lesson for future generations... as to the animals later on in other stories God had the isrealites kill everything including the animals when they went after cities of their enemies...God must want a completely clean slate
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Post by snow on Dec 21, 2014 22:41:14 GMT -5
One thing I have never understood is why God needed a flood to kill everything and everyone and why he had to kill any of the animals at all. Seems like an awful lot of work to go to when he could have just waved his hand and annihilated everything he wanted annihilated and voila, just Noah and his family? he could have done it that way but i think there needed to be noahs faith involved also in building the ark, gathering in all the food and then the animals as a lesson for future generations... So what was the lesson? If we don't obey God will commit another genocide?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2014 22:45:20 GMT -5
he could have done it that way but i think there needed to be noahs faith involved also in building the ark, gathering in all the food and then the animals as a lesson for future generations... So what was the lesson? If we don't obey God will commit another genocide? there will be a sort of genocide on judgment day when Christ returns...after the 1000 year reign all non-believers will go to the lake of fire and the 2nd death and a remnant will be saved
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 22, 2014 0:34:14 GMT -5
One thing I have never understood is why God needed a flood to kill everything and everyone and why he had to kill any of the animals at all. Seems like an awful lot of work to go to when he could have just waved his hand and annihilated everything he wanted annihilated and voila, just Noah and his family? They copied the story from a couple of other stories from the more ancient societies. People should be forced to study ancient myths in school -- they could forget about all this nonsensical imaginative explanation for their imagined perfect normalness of such events. The earth collapsing in on itself? Why hasn't someone even been smart enough to at least imagine a massive body from outer space landing in the Indian Ocean and flooding all the Middle East? At least it would make a bit of sense. Or maybe God took some water from another planet and threw it onto the earth until it siphoned back to where it came from.
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 22, 2014 0:36:41 GMT -5
One thing I have never understood is why God needed a flood to kill everything and everyone and why he had to kill any of the animals at all. Seems like an awful lot of work to go to when he could have just waved his hand and annihilated everything he wanted annihilated and voila, just Noah and his family? he could have done it that way but i think there needed to be noahs faith involved also in building the ark, gathering in all the food and then the animals as a lesson for future generations... as to the animals later on in other stories God had the isrealites kill everything including the animals when they went after cities of their enemies...God must want a completely clean slate But they didn't kill all the animals in the whole world, did they? What's the comparison? One is killing everything, and the other is destroying the enemy's property.
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 22, 2014 3:01:45 GMT -5
They copied the story from a couple of other stories from the more ancient societies. People should be forced to study ancient myths in school -- they could forget about all this nonsensical imaginative explanation for their imagined perfect normalness of such events. The earth collapsing in on itself? Why hasn't someone even been smart enough to at least imagine a massive body from outer space landing in the Indian Ocean and flooding all the Middle East? At least it would make a bit of sense. Or maybe God took some water from another planet and threw it onto the earth until it siphoned back to where it came from. The Book of Noah 65 : (1) And in those days, Noah saw the earth had tilted and that its destruction was near. Book of Noah 67 : (1) And in those days, the word of the Lord came to me, and he said to me: “Noah, behold: your lot has come up before me, a lot of love without reproach, a lot of uprightness. (2) And now the angels are making a wooden structure and when the angels come out from that task, I will put my hand on it and keep it safe. And a change shall take place so that the ground may not remain empty. Book of Parables 54 : (7) And in those days, the punishment of the Lord of Spirits will go out, and the storehouses of the waters which are above the sky and under the earth will be opened. (8) And all the waters will be joined with the waters that are above the sky. The water that is above the sky is male and the water that is under the earth is female. See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread111480/pg1#sthash.ea6CJ0co.dpufHuge Reservoir of Water Discovered in Space 30 Billion Trillion Miles Away. "... the researchers have found a mass of water vapor that’s at least 140 trillion times that of all the water in the world’s oceans combined, and 100,000 times more massive than the sun." www.universetoday.com/87669/huge-resevoir-of-water-discovered-in-space-30-billion-trillion-miles-away/#ixzz39STcMiwPWow. I was right. hahaha
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Post by snow on Dec 22, 2014 10:49:08 GMT -5
No boat made in those days is large enough for all the different animals never mind enough food for all of them. You have to remember that there is a huge span of time between landing on dry ground and growing enough to feed all the animals what they required. The problem of eucalyptus alone is an issue for the koala bears. Yes most cultures do have a flood story, but that doesn't mean they were anything but regional floods and that is very believable. Tell me where enough water to cover the highest mountains world wide came from and then tell me where all that water went again? All your aliens inside of the hollow earth would be drowned Nathan. All of the flood water recede back into the hollow earth. NOT all of the Nephilims drown, they survived because they came out of the hollow earth, because AFTER the flood, the children of Israel saw many Nephilim/giants living in the promised lands. God wanted them to Destroyed all of the Nephilims/Anak/Raphalims and give the land to the children of Israel.
The ETs have been living in the hollow earth for millions of years. They were still living there when admiral Richard E. Byrd met them in person 1947.Nathan, if the water went into the hollow earth there is no way of living in it. Where did the water go from there? Think about what you're telling us and ask yourself, is it even logical thinking. To have enough water to cover the entire earth, even the highest mountains is a heck of a lot of water and it then has no where to go to recede in the first place, never mind you saying it goes into the hollow earth but somehow that hollow earth was able to get rid of the water enough for the aliens to go back and live there. That's just not how things work Nathan. Also Nathan, you obviously don't believe the bible when it says that the water came from below and above.
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Post by snow on Dec 22, 2014 12:04:18 GMT -5
Right Nathan, that's the only answer that can work. "With God nothing is impossible". Otherwise it is totally illogical. There is no way there was enough water on or in earth to completely cover the earth then somehow magically just recede to some mysterious place so the aliens can live in the hollow earth again. It definitely would take a miracle because there is no other way this can be explained.
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Post by matisse on Dec 22, 2014 17:20:56 GMT -5
To the folks concluding that there must have been a global flood because many other traditions refer to a flood...are you imagining that there were people in other parts of the globe who survived to bear witness to the same flood that Noah reportedly experienced?
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Post by snow on Dec 22, 2014 17:20:56 GMT -5
Right Nathan, that's the only answer that can work. "With God nothing is impossible". Otherwise it is totally illogical. There is no way there was enough water on or in earth to completely cover the earth then somehow magically just recede to some mysterious place so the aliens can live in the hollow earth again. It definitely would take a miracle because there is no other way this can be explained. You are correct, it's Impossible for the highest mountains on earth to be covered with water unless God rained from above the earth and for the ocean in hollow earth opened up. All of the water on the ocean on the surface CAN'T cover the highest mountain on earth. It took a lot of water from above and below to cover the whole earth and the highest mountains on the surface.Here is a list of the ten highest peaks in the world, as measured from sea level. As you can see, eight of them are in or partially in Nepal: Name Country Continent Meters Feet Mount Everest China, Nepal Asia 8,850 29,035 K2 China, Pakistan Asia 8,611 28,251 Kangchenjunga India, Nepal Asia 8,586 28,169 Lhotse China, Nepal Asia 8,516 27,940 Makalu China, Nepal Asia 8,485 27,838 Kangchenjunga South India, Nepal Asia 8,76 27,808 Lhotse Middle Nepal Asia 8,430 27,657 Kangchenjunga West Nepal Asia 8,420 27,25 Lhotse Shar Nepal Asia 8,400 27,559 Cho Oyu China, Nepal Asia 8,201 26,906 So this only works for you if there is a hollow earth? Are the other people who believe in the flood that don't believe in a hollow earth wrong?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2014 20:35:25 GMT -5
To the folks concluding that there must have been a global flood because many other traditions refer to a flood...are you imagining that there were people in other parts of the globe who survived to bear witness to the same flood that Noah reportedly experienced? no they got their "story" from noah passed down through the generations through shem, japheth and ham...
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 22, 2014 22:13:43 GMT -5
To the folks concluding that there must have been a global flood because many other traditions refer to a flood...are you imagining that there were people in other parts of the globe who survived to bear witness to the same flood that Noah reportedly experienced? no they got their "story" from noah passed down through the generations through shem, japheth and ham... The Bible datings must be out of order, then.
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Post by snow on Dec 23, 2014 9:32:51 GMT -5
So this only works for you if there is a hollow earth? Are the other people who believe in the flood that don't believe in a hollow earth wrong? Most people read that the water came from above/sky/heaven... but NOT too many people take the time to contemplate how did the water came out from below the earth, that part went over their heads.
Can you explain where did the water come out from below the earth? And where did the most of water recede to after the flood so the Noah's ark could land on Mt. Ararat?
Book of Parables 54 : (7) And in those days, the punishment of the Lord of Spirits will go out, and the storehouses of the waters which are above the sky and under the earth will be opened. (8) And all the waters will be joined with the waters that are above the sky. The water that is above the sky is male and the water that is under the earth is female.No, That's why I don't believe the myth of the world wide flood. It's impossible for it to have happened logistically. You have to believe in a hollow earth and that is also impossible. So....
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Post by placid-void on Dec 23, 2014 9:54:23 GMT -5
I marvel.
We have a thread, here, that has now grown to three pages on the strength of alternate interpretations of a story that has been retold for millennia. I am unable to find much evidence that anyone’s convictions about the topic have been altered by the discussion. In fact, it is difficult to discern where one contributor has “heard” the point of view of another and tried to think their way through that perspective . . . . it’s origins, it’s value, it’s consequences, etc.
Rather, each of us tries, by whatever rhetorical device, to demonstrate the wisdom of our own point of view and the impaired logic of some point of view expressed by another contributor.
I am loath to admit it, but for some reason, “strain the gnat but swallow the camel” comes to mind.
Personally, I find so many aspects of the flood story absolutely awesome. From Gilgamesh to the Twitter response to the 2011 tsunami, humans respond to the devastation of epic catastrophes in truly remarkable ways. The plasticity of the brain of homo sapiens to respond to completely unexpected phenomena, draw solace from each other and from their understanding of their environment and process all of this in a manner directed toward learning and communicating for future generations is simply astounding to me.
I think about an ancient representative of my species, similar in essentially all respects to myself, facing the consequence of a natural disaster that has reduced his known world to no more than a handful of kin and yet emotionally surviving that trauma. I dare not ask myself the question; “Could I?”
I think about the scientific studies that suggest that perhaps our species was catastrophically brought to the precipice of extinction by natural phenomena (perhaps no more than 2000 members of the species surviving). How thin our tether to existence!
So do I believe that Noah literally loaded two of every species into a craft and survived the expressed wrath of a transcendent consciousness? No, I can’t say that I believe in the word for word literal interpretation of that story.
But I do believe in the power of that and other myths and stories to induce me to contemplate questions that transcend my own existence and experience. I feel that I am richer as a consequence of other people’s stories. For me, the stories of others will always carry meaning, it is my choice how much effort I want to exert to search for and derive benefit from that meaning.
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