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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 18, 2014 21:55:28 GMT -5
I would remind Honestabe that I have a black niece whose black father lives in the Upper Midwest, and he has never let his daughter join him there for her own safety -- she grew up with her mother in Canada. She would go to visit her relatives in the US and was freaked out by the way she was "looked at" when they were out in public. I often say that the privilege of being a minority is that you get an honest view of the underside of the upper class. I'm sorry she was "looked at" funny. My guess is she must have been somewhere that it's rare to see a black person. It's a human reaction to be slightly taken aback by seeing someone/something different than you're used to. I'm sure whites that enroll at Grambling get "looked at" differently. In both cases, the proof is in how they get treated (along with what people actually think about them in their heart, but that is not usually discernible in casual contact in public). People recognize phoney faces in casual contact. That's not racism. Racism is what happens when no one is looking, and you're right -- YOU PERSONALLY don't see it. Just because you can't see it, you can't say it's even rare -- how would you know? You have to get over the notion that if white people can't see it, then it's not a problem. Any black people in Minneapolis? Or do they routinely follow shoppers around the stores there when they're shopping? Or do white people in Canada just look at all people differently than white people in the USA look at people? Or are all black people liars? With all due respect, you aren't in any position to assess the problems black people have in this country. The stumbling blocks set in place to inhibit their progress never apply to your DNA.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Dec 19, 2014 12:17:42 GMT -5
I would remind Honestabe that I have a black niece whose black father lives in the Upper Midwest, and he has never let his daughter join him there for her own safety -- she grew up with her mother in Canada. She would go to visit her relatives in the US and was freaked out by the way she was "looked at" when they were out in public. I often say that the privilege of being a minority is that you get an honest view of the underside of the upper class. That's pretty subjective, I know you can't broad brush stereotype the entire "Upper Midwest" like that. As far as safety there's a black man in an upper midwest city who was apprehensive about the racism alleged to be in "the upper Midwest" but instead found that white people stopped and asked if he needed a ride when he walked from place to place. He was amazed. He told one of my kids he will never move back south. He feels safer in the upper Midwest city.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Dec 19, 2014 13:12:47 GMT -5
There are quite a few blacks with basically the same message on social media.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Dec 19, 2014 13:55:26 GMT -5
Here's another, it has almost a million shares on facebook;
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Post by emy on Dec 19, 2014 14:57:10 GMT -5
Awww... just a couple of "uppity" blacks!!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2014 16:10:31 GMT -5
Awww... just a couple of "uppity" blacks!! Naaaaaaa, uncle toms, more likely.
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 19, 2014 18:39:03 GMT -5
You haven't been listening. Did you follow the discussion on grand juries, and how many WHITE people didn't know how they work? ? The poverty is not the real problem. The mechanisms that keep poor people poor are the tyranny that hasn't yet reached established white people. It's coming. Yes. For lots of reasons. But most obvious is the fact that white faces are a lot less scary than black faces. Similarly "Joe" gets called for interviews far more often than "José". Of course, white people can't see that happening, so they don't think it's a problem. No, I'm not a legal expert and don't know the ins and outs of a Grand Jury. DMG is arguing that poverty is one of the large issues, maybe you and her should have it out. I know your white face / black face statement is not true in the field I work. Granted, those jobs are not available to people with no education (which sometimes accompanies poverty), but it still speaks to the color of the face not being an issue (maybe it is some places or to some people, but it's not this national epidemic that you make it seem). Of course it doesn't make any difference where you work. You both have to behave yourselves or get fired. That's not where the real discriminastion happens anyway. Do you think someone in this country is stupid enough to discriminate in front of "white" people -- reputation comes first, you know. There was no discrimination where I worked either -- until the other teacher whispered to me one day, "Look at them -- how many generations away from ape do you think they are? They know what to do with them in Russia." "What do they do with them in Russia?" "They kill them." No one knew why he never came back the following year ..... except me!!!!!
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 19, 2014 18:40:49 GMT -5
I recognized where you live by what you wrote. If you lived anywhere else in this country you'd never have made that statement. You are more transparent than you think. Not trying to be overly transparent. When I say I live in a major city in the U.S. upper midwest, that doesn't leave too many options, does it? I didn't say you were trying to be transparent. I know you're not trying. You just are and don't know it.
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 19, 2014 19:48:20 GMT -5
If nobody can see it, how do you know it exists (sounds like a familiar argument on this board)? You're becoming circular now. So let's get off on MY tangent. Knowing you've been discriminated against because of race is evident by the doors of opportunity that are slammed in your face for "fake" reasons. Knowing you're discriminated against is when all the soccer team members who aren't invited to the victory parties are the same race. Knowing me, they asked me what to do. The next year they all refused to play, and the school never won a game. And you know what the complaint was in the teachers' room: Those f... ....s, they will cheat you every time they get a chance -- ungrateful good for nothings. And not a single one of them had the guts to acknowledge that they'd not even invited the ....s to celebrate with them. After all, it's "our" (white) school and we know it. You want to send your black kid to a school like that? That's a poor argument. You know the "I" know it wasn't. The freedom that the Civil War and Emancipation Proclamation gave the blacks lasted for about 10 years -- just long enough to "the people" to design barriers to franchisement that did not mention color. And they succeeded in separating the blacks from the whites with the magical expression "separate but equal". You think the blacks believed that BS explanation. Then came the Civil Rights Movement aimed at getting rid of the then obvious (and embarrassing) (un)equal separations, and the whites complained grievously for about 10 years. But by then they had discovered ways to secretly and/or tacitly discriminate that would not offend the laws against the overt practices of pre-Civil Rights Movements. Which means that today the style of racial discrimination is far more sophisticated and defensible than ever before. Which also means, white people can be totally and absolutely ignorant of it all if they don't INVESTIGATE FOR THEMSELVES. All a white person needs now is the "token black friend" and he thinks he's not a racist. I have no idea if that's you or not -- I'm just telling you how the rest of the world turns. Come on -- you know when they want to sell you something, they make sure you know they're there. With blacks and white teenagers (and other people who can't afford anything they're looking at) they hover just out of reach ... from the time they enter the store until they leave. Successful blacks know exactly what I'm talking about. Oprah Winfrey, of all people, when she asked about a thousand dollar watch on sale, was just told, "Oh, you don't have enough money to buy that." Obviously didn't watch afternoon TV or read the newspapers. The new elevator operator in the US Supreme Court, when Thurgood Marshall attempted to step into the elevator, asked him if he had been authorized to go to the justices offices. Don't worry, there is always a successful black person who meets the white person who doesn't know who he is. Do you think Thurgood Marshall was asked that question because he didn't have his judge's robes on? That's a weak defense. I'm not talking about how they catch white people shoplifting. I'm talking about how they treat suspect individuals when someone is available to watch them. Didn't you know that black people have such slick moves and so much experience at shoplifting that the cameras don't catch it all? It didn't inhibit her progress -- she went home to Canada when her vacation was over. !!!!! You know I didn't say that. It's more subtle than that. Best example: Why on earth does the prosecutor have to option to "try" someone in secret or in public? No one has ever explained in because it only serves one purpose, if he doesn't want to prosecute someone for any reason he will take them to the grand jury and interpret their advice however he wants and there is no recourse ... whatsoever. The prosecutor is not bound to take the grand juror's advice, and it is a crime for a grand juror to say a single word about anything that happens in the grand jury. Is that a national mandate? Yes. Is it a national racial mandate? No. A grand jury is something like the bank manager giving the teller the option of locking the safe at the end of the day, or leaving it open ... for some reason, naturally. I know. You can't get off with this kind of discrimination on a large scale because the equal employment opportunity people will investigate you, and who wants the publicity. Why is there such a fetish for being your own employer in this country? And I have just explained why there's such a thing as affirmative action. And why it didn't start until some time after the Civil Rights Bills were passed. For some reason, some politicians understand that the larger and more comfortable the middle class, the healthier the economy. Some racists actually do understand that -- so if they can keep the black people spending money, more of the money will end up in the right bank accounts eventually anyway. If you need to tolerate them for now, it's okay, because by the time that you've destroyed the whole country with your greed you won't be around to have to solve the problem anyway. The objective of racism is to keep others poor and powerless.
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 19, 2014 20:10:29 GMT -5
I would remind Honestabe that I have a black niece whose black father lives in the Upper Midwest, and he has never let his daughter join him there for her own safety -- she grew up with her mother in Canada. She would go to visit her relatives in the US and was freaked out by the way she was "looked at" when they were out in public. I often say that the privilege of being a minority is that you get an honest view of the underside of the upper class. That's pretty subjective, I know you can't broad brush stereotype the entire "Upper Midwest" like that. As far as safety there's a black man in an upper midwest city who was apprehensive about the racism alleged to be in "the upper Midwest" but instead found that white people stopped and asked if he needed a ride when he walked from place to place. He was amazed. He told one of my kids he will never move back south. He feels safer in the upper Midwest city. So there are no racist in the upper Midwest -- simply because it is worse in the south. That's crap. I lived in the NE in Civil Rights Times -- the big civil rights riots were mostly in the North. Northerners complained about how badly the blacks were being treated in the South, but in the North they were segregating busses, 2x2 meetings, taxis refusing black passengers, selling houses when blacks moved in down the street, and refusing to be assigned to a desk at work beside a black person. Yeah, that is better than getting towed behind a pickup truck for a couple of miles. Remember, in my lifetime, they lynched blacks in Ohio and stood around to have their picture taken with the corps hanging in the tree so it could appear in the newspaper. And what is Michigan hiding -- some of the largest and most virulent white supremacist groups in the country. The difference between Northern racism and Southern racism is that in the North they are far more sophisticated about their equality appearances. Anyway, I wasn't painting a broad brush. I was telling the experience of my niece. But who needs a broad brush? How many snubs a day does one need to get the point? Bullying has been getting some attention these days. How many kids are being bullied? The majority. How many "non-kids" witness bullying? A decent number to witness it, many who call it "kids stuff", and a very few who will make a fuss about it. We have a case in town right now -- a 11,12 year old girl committed suicide because she could not handle the bullying at school. The school had don't nothing about it, and claimed to know nothing about it. After a 2 year fight with the school district the father discovered that there was a complaint filed about the bullying weeks before her suicide, so he is suing the school district. The school district's response was that the kid had planned the suicide, prepared for it, and carried it out. She had committed first degree murder against herself and her death was not caused by bullying. Did the people who jumped from the World Trade Center murder themselves? Do you have to lynch a black man to prove you're a racist?
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Dec 19, 2014 20:46:23 GMT -5
So there are no racist in the upper Midwest -- simply because it is worse in the south. That's crap. It's also crap to imply I meant "there are no racist in the upper Midwest -- simply because it is worse in the south".
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 19, 2014 21:19:58 GMT -5
So there are no racist in the upper Midwest -- simply because it is worse in the south. That's crap. It's also crap to imply I meant "there are no racist in the upper Midwest -- simply because it is worse in the south". Now I suspect you're defensive on this topic. Or are you hoping I will imply?
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Dec 19, 2014 21:52:51 GMT -5
"So there are no racist in the upper Midwest -- simply because it is worse in the south. That's crap. What does the word "So" in context mean? What is it used in response to? Would there be any point to defend against another's suspicions? I don't think so. BTW I agree this statement is crap; "So there are no racist in the upper Midwest -- simply because it is worse in the south." That statement is as crappy as implying "Canada" is much safer for a black girl than mysterious places like "the Upper Midwest."
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 19, 2014 22:04:11 GMT -5
"So there are no racist in the upper Midwest -- simply because it is worse in the south. That's crap." What does the word "So" in context mean? What is in in response to? Would there be any point to defend against another's suspicions? I don't think so. No, of course not. But don't worry, I have no interest whatsoever in investigating your thought process in this matter. But for anyone who has suspicions about the vitality of racism in this country -- here's something to stoke your fires: m.dailykos.com/story/2014/12/18/1352704/-4-things-that-should-happen-now-that-we-know-the-truth-about-witness-40-a-white-supremacistHonestabe may appreciate how the grand jury operates.
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 19, 2014 22:05:04 GMT -5
"So there are no racist in the upper Midwest -- simply because it is worse in the south. That's crap. What does the word "So" in context mean? What is it used in response to? Would there be any point to defend against another's suspicions? I don't think so. BTW I agree this statement is crap; "So there are no racist in the upper Midwest -- simply because it is worse in the south." That statement is as crappy as implying "Canada" is much safer for a black girl than mysterious places like "the Upper Midwest." I'm sure you're the one to ask.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Dec 19, 2014 22:15:52 GMT -5
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 19, 2014 22:19:12 GMT -5
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 19, 2014 22:27:58 GMT -5
He does have a brown nose, doesn't he?
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 19, 2014 22:29:37 GMT -5
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Dec 19, 2014 22:36:51 GMT -5
He does have a brown nose, doesn't he? What do you mean by that?
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Dec 19, 2014 22:39:16 GMT -5
In the video Derrick actually discusses both of the issues the pictures in your posts refer to.
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 19, 2014 22:46:08 GMT -5
In the video Derrick actually discusses both of the issues the pictures in your posts refer to. Rather that argue endlessly -- why are you so adamantly contesting what I have been saying about racist people?
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Dec 19, 2014 23:07:53 GMT -5
I'm not really adamantly contesting, you have opinions, honestabe has opinions, the black men in the videos I've linked have opinions, and I have opinions. I do find what black people say about racism on social media way more interesting than the status quo stuff we see in the main stream media.
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 19, 2014 23:12:04 GMT -5
I'm not really adamantly contesting, you have opinions, honestabe has opinions, the black men in the videos I've linked have opinions, and I have opinions. I do find what black people say about racism on social media way more interesting than the status quo stuff we see in the main stream media. Well that's a non-commitment if I ever heard one.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Dec 20, 2014 10:12:59 GMT -5
"So there are no racist in the upper Midwest -- simply because it is worse in the south. That's crap." What does the word "So" in context mean? What is in in response to? Would there be any point to defend against another's suspicions? I don't think so. No, of course not. But don't worry, I have no interest whatsoever in investigating your thought process in this matter. But for anyone who has suspicions about the vitality of racism in this country -- here's something to stoke your fires: m.dailykos.com/story/2014/12/18/1352704/-4-things-that-should-happen-now-that-we-know-the-truth-about-witness-40-a-white-supremacistHonestabe may appreciate how the grand jury operates. I was wondering about the thought process behind the word "So". It seems to indicate reference to what I said, and what follows the word "So" seems to be a paraphrase (incorrect) of what I said. I'm not committed to arguing about that thought processes though. dailyKos is a pretty far left site. I've read that witness 40's "testimony" was thoroughly discredited during the grand jury proceedings. Part of that discrediting probably was when the FBI interrogation of witness 40 (mentioned in the article you linked) was introduced as evidence. There was perjury from Witness 10 and others. It's the Grand Jury's job to sort through all that. If witness 40 was charged with perjury the others would have to be too. Apparently none of the witnesses committing perjury are going to be charged.
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 20, 2014 18:38:58 GMT -5
I was wondering about the thought process behind the word "So". It seems to indicate reference to what I said, and what follows the word "So" seems to be a paraphrase (incorrect) of what I said. I'm not committed to arguing about that thought processes though. dailyKos is a pretty far left site. I've read that witness 40's "testimony" was thoroughly discredited during the grand jury proceedings. Part of that discrediting probably was when the FBI interrogation of witness 40 (mentioned in the article you linked) was introduced as evidence. There was perjury from Witness 10 and others. It's the Grand Jury's job to sort through all that. If witness 40 was charged with perjury the others would have to be too. Apparently none of the witnesses committing perjury are going to be charged. Of course they won't be charged. It's not in the interest of the prosecutor to charge them. That's why grand jury proceedings are secret.
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Post by fred on Dec 20, 2014 18:59:07 GMT -5
To my little mind and my limited grey cells that is a completely stupid comment. [re: cops and isis]
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 20, 2014 19:12:30 GMT -5
To my little mind and my limited grey cells that is a completely stupid comment. [re: cops and isis] Did I say something about cops and isis???
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