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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 16, 2014 18:47:25 GMT -5
When Arabs say: "Death to Americans", it means the same to them as "To hell with Arabs" means to Americans. Each language likes its own curses better. So does that mean they don't mean to kill us all or does it mean that they will try? It means something like when an American parent says to her child, "If you do that I will kill you." Such talk is oddly enough common in this country, anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2014 19:28:53 GMT -5
We have nice Muslim neighbours - They looked after our house while we were away for seven weeks. But with all this horror of Muslim /Christian it breeds distrust and I just don't want to be too friendly with them. It is a shame they are a lovely couple. Underneath there is a little bit of fear that they empathise with the fanatics.
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 16, 2014 19:34:05 GMT -5
We have nice Muslim neighbours - They looked after our house while we were away for seven weeks. But with all this horror of Muslim /Christian it breeds distrust and I just don't want to be too friendly with them. It is a shame they are a lovely couple. Underneath there is a little bit of fear that they empathise with the fanatics. Do you realize that they have more to be afraid of than you do? Have you discussed with them the difficulties they experience being Muslim in your community ... without trying to convince them that they're imagining their fears? I do that. I also stopped in at a mosque that is being built a couple of blocks away and told them what a beautiful structure they are building -- it really is beautiful, and they're building it themselves with their own volunteer labor. They're no more devious than anyone else in my town, and they don't try to convert me.
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Post by fixit on Nov 16, 2014 20:14:34 GMT -5
We have nice Muslim neighbours - They looked after our house while we were away for seven weeks. But with all this horror of Muslim /Christian it breeds distrust and I just don't want to be too friendly with them. It is a shame they are a lovely couple. Underneath there is a little bit of fear that they empathise with the fanatics. Yes, there are some Muslim killing Christian horror stories, but most Muslim fanatics are as anti-secular as they are anti-Christian. They may refer to Europeans and North Americans as "Crusaders" but its mostly our secular culture and values that they hate.
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Post by snow on Nov 16, 2014 21:14:45 GMT -5
So does that mean they don't mean to kill us all or does it mean that they will try? It means something like when an American parent says to her child, "If you do that I will kill you." Such talk is oddly enough common in this country, anyway. Really, parents say that? hmm Well my response initially was meant to be sarcastic, about God works in mysterious ways. ISIS are warriors for God. Well it's just one more delusion among many as far as I'm concerned.
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Post by snow on Nov 16, 2014 21:19:22 GMT -5
We have nice Muslim neighbours - They looked after our house while we were away for seven weeks. But with all this horror of Muslim /Christian it breeds distrust and I just don't want to be too friendly with them. It is a shame they are a lovely couple. Underneath there is a little bit of fear that they empathise with the fanatics. That's just sad. Aren't you more likely to be safer if you are friends? People are less likely to hurt people they have connected with. This is why I really don't like religion. It is so divisive. They are likely more fearful and have more reason to be than you do.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2014 3:46:19 GMT -5
Let me respond this way: wrong + wrong= wrong; wrong + Wrong not= right; true or false?
i suppose "true" in the laws of the jungle where the fitest survive. Partaker, Can you explain in examples what the heck this is suppose to mean: wrong + wrong= wrong; wrong + Wrong not= right; true or false?Ok, simple explanation. You broke into your neighbors house and smashes up everything in sight, that wrong. You suspect that your neighbour is the culprit, so when your neighbour is away, you break into his house and smashes up everything, that also is wrong legally. So that amounts to two illegally wrongs actions = wrong. I believe that the more propular way of saying it is: "two wrongs never makes it right." That is looking at it from a legal stance, but from a moral stance, I suppose you should turn the other cheek and not retaliate "tit for tat."
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 17, 2014 16:11:15 GMT -5
We have nice Muslim neighbours - They looked after our house while we were away for seven weeks. But with all this horror of Muslim /Christian it breeds distrust and I just don't want to be too friendly with them. It is a shame they are a lovely couple. Underneath there is a little bit of fear that they empathise with the fanatics. Yes, there are some Muslim killing Christian horror stories, but most Muslim fanatics are as anti-secular as they are anti-Christian. They may refer to Europeans and North Americans as "Crusaders" but its mostly our secular culture and values that they hate. On the contrary - they know perfectly well that the US President called his war in the Middle East a "crusade" -- explicitly. And they've never been told it was otherwise. Now we all have to live with the consequences. And don't forget Western predatory capitalism -- that's Western (especially American) culture and values, neither Christian nor Muslim.
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Post by fixit on Nov 17, 2014 16:59:39 GMT -5
Yes, there are some Muslim killing Christian horror stories, but most Muslim fanatics are as anti-secular as they are anti-Christian. They may refer to Europeans and North Americans as "Crusaders" but its mostly our secular culture and values that they hate. On the contrary - they know perfectly well that the US President called his war in the Middle East a "crusade" -- explicitly. And they've never been told it was otherwise. Now we all have to live with the consequences. And don't forget Western predatory capitalism -- that's Western (especially American) culture and values, neither Christian nor Muslim. Yes, Bush made the mistake of using the c word. Obama tried very hard to say the right things to the Islamic world. Has it helped?
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Post by déjà vu on Nov 28, 2014 19:15:46 GMT -5
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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 28, 2014 20:54:53 GMT -5
We have nice Muslim neighbours - They looked after our house while we were away for seven weeks. But with all this horror of Muslim /Christian it breeds distrust and I just don't want to be too friendly with them. It is a shame they are a lovely couple. Underneath there is a little bit of fear that they empathise with the fanatics. Yes, it is a shame that you don't want to be too friendly with them!
Actually you could be an example to other people by becoming friends with them.
They are more likely in need of friends right now, than in the past.
Some we women got together after 9/11 with Muslim women & offered them any help that we might be able to provide , -escort them in public because they might be afraid etc.
My husband & I visited a Mosque.
Quite an enlightening experience.
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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 28, 2014 21:00:10 GMT -5
The man in the video doesn't know history or religion.
He's only portraying his ignorance.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2014 22:11:38 GMT -5
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Nov 28, 2014 22:48:52 GMT -5
The difference is that the West has made a lot of progress in that respect over the last few hundred years while the Islamic world has regressed. Islamists are not fighting Christianity so much as modernity. From groups such as the Army of God and the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan in the US to the sectarian conflict in the Central African Republic to the National Liberation Front of Tripura in India there are Christian groups who are doing, today, much the same thing Islamist's are doing. As long as groups feel their god is the only right one the conflicts will continue. The only problem I see with your comment Rational is that these Christians you mention may only be Christian in name. There works show that they are otherwise so it is hardly fitting to blame our God.
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 28, 2014 23:05:33 GMT -5
From groups such as the Army of God and the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan in the US to the sectarian conflict in the Central African Republic to the National Liberation Front of Tripura in India there are Christian groups who are doing, today, much the same thing Islamist's are doing. As long as groups feel their god is the only right one the conflicts will continue. The only problem I see with your comment Rational is that these Christians you mention may only be Christian in name. There works show that they are otherwise so it is hardly fitting to blame our God. What the heck difference does that make? Muslim terrorists are no more behaving like Muslims than KKK is behaving like Christians --- but you have no other name for them. They're Christians and Muslims. The problem with Christians when it comes to understanding this whole situation is that Christians refuse to acknowledge that all their terrorist groups are nominally Christians, and that all the Muslim terrorist groups are mainstream practicing Muslims.
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Post by snow on Nov 29, 2014 12:25:02 GMT -5
The only problem I see with your comment Rational is that these Christians you mention may only be Christian in name. There works show that they are otherwise so it is hardly fitting to blame our God. What the heck difference does that make? Muslim terrorists are no more behaving like Muslims than KKK is behaving like Christians --- but you have no other name for them. They're Christians and Muslims. The problem with Christians when it comes to understanding this whole situation is that Christians refuse to acknowledge that all their terrorist groups are nominally Christians, and that all the Muslim terrorist groups are mainstream practicing Muslims. I agree. Which is why labels can be so deceiving. Why being a particular religion or non religion is no guarantee that you are a loving human. Also, imo, the Christian God is just the role model people like the KKK can use to justify their biased, prejudicial behavior. No one needs to look at the behavior of these so called Christians to blame the Christian God. They just need to look at the God to blame for the behavior of some of his adherents.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Nov 29, 2014 13:26:42 GMT -5
Good points Bob and Snow. Labeling can be so deceptive.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2014 14:11:14 GMT -5
Good points Bob and Snow. Labeling can be so deceptive. Labeling, stereotyping call it what you will, it can be really vicious to those affected because once you are labelled you have a really difficult time throwing it off. I know because it was part of my studies years ago, and nothing much has changed.
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Post by SharonArnold on Nov 29, 2014 18:39:41 GMT -5
Good points Bob and Snow. Labeling can be so deceptive. I think as soon as you label something/someone, you no longer really "see" it/them. Once we apply a label, it somehow becomes all about us and how we live inside our own heads. (I do think it is necessary for us to label/categorize at times - for example, to communicate meaningfully with other people or even for our own mental health.) However, I have found it is an interesting exercise to attempt to simply perceive without labelling. Sometimes I see things as I have never seen them since I was a child. Sometimes I see people as I have never seen them before.) There is a book with the title "Seeing Is Forgetting the Name of the Thing One Sees". I think there is a certain truth to this.
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Post by rational on Nov 30, 2014 1:32:46 GMT -5
The only problem I see with your comment Rational is that these Christians you mention may only be Christian in name. There works show that they are otherwise so it is hardly fitting to blame our God. I am certain that the same could be said for the Islamists. They may well be Islamists only in name.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Nov 30, 2014 1:41:43 GMT -5
Exactly, there is more at play here in the middle east than religion. One of the major goings on is control of territory and what goes on in that territory. Another issue seems to be that there is quite a few psychopathic killers over there. I recently read that the USA has a death by bullet annual rate of between 20000 to 30000. Wow. Whats all that about?
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 30, 2014 1:47:17 GMT -5
Exactly, there is more at play here in the middle east than religion. One of the major goings on is control of territory and what goes on in that territory. Another issue seems to be that there is quite a few psychopathic killers over there. I recently read that the USA has a death by bullet annual rate of between 20000 to 30000. Wow. Whats all that about? It's about the US being a more violent place to live than in the Middle East -- and that's not a war zone. Imagine what it would be like if we had a war here ..... our psychos would all come out of hiding just for the fun of it.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Nov 30, 2014 2:13:27 GMT -5
Actually I am quite comfortable with that death rate as I see it as a by product of having an armed public which provides a balance to the armed forces of the USA. In countries where there is a bit of suppression going on there is still a lot of lead poisoning happening. Without that balance the USA under some kind of nutcase president (more nuttier than some of those lately to hold office) could very well turn against some sections of USA society. Yes I do own firearms and regularly hunt for meat.
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 30, 2014 4:10:58 GMT -5
Actually I am quite comfortable with that death rate as I see it as a by product of having an armed public which provides a balance to the armed forces of the USA. In countries where there is a bit of suppression going on there is still a lot of lead poisoning happening. Without that balance the USA under some kind of nutcase president (more nuttier than some of those lately to hold office) could very well turn against some sections of USA society. Yes I do own firearms and regularly hunt for meat. Heh all you non-Americans out there -- this is the kind of voting public we have in the great American democracy! And 30,000 shooting deaths a year is a comfortable balance against the country's military? See -- we prefer to shoot each other instead of have the military shoot us. Do you really think the your rifle is any match for the American military, or any other military for that matter? Maybe the next freedom Americans will get is the right to own your own private tank. I don't care whether you hunt or not -- what has that to do with the 30,000 people being shot in this country each year?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2014 15:09:00 GMT -5
Exactly, there is more at play here in the middle east than religion. One of the major goings on is control of territory and what goes on in that territory. Another issue seems to be that there is quite a few psychopathic killers over there. I recently read that the USA has a death by bullet annual rate of between 20000 to 30000. Wow. Whats all that about? some interesting statistics usconservatives.about.com/od/capitalpunishment/a/Putting-Gun-Death-Statistics-In-Perspective.htm
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2014 15:38:48 GMT -5
Exactly, there is more at play here in the middle east than religion. One of the major goings on is control of territory and what goes on in that territory. Another issue seems to be that there is quite a few psychopathic killers over there. I recently read that the USA has a death by bullet annual rate of between 20000 to 30000. Wow. Whats all that about? Owning a fire arm does not make life safer for citizens.If everyone owns a firearm, at the slightest disturbance some will shoot first and then ask questions. Everyone lives on tender hooks, if you are in the right place at the wrong time you can fall victim of armed criminals, because dead men can tell no tales, or you can get caught in cross fire innocently minding your own business.
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 30, 2014 15:47:49 GMT -5
Exactly, there is more at play here in the middle east than religion. One of the major goings on is control of territory and what goes on in that territory. Another issue seems to be that there is quite a few psychopathic killers over there. I recently read that the USA has a death by bullet annual rate of between 20000 to 30000. Wow. Whats all that about? Owning a fire arm does not make life safer for citizens.If everyone owns a firearm, at the slightest disturbance some will shoot first and then ask questions. Everyone lives on tender hooks, if you are in the right place at the wrong time you can fall victim of armed criminals, because dead men can tell no tales, or you can get caught in cross fire innocently minding your own business. And for some reason Americans seem to need machine guns to go hunting. Yeah .... hunting you know what ....
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2014 15:57:52 GMT -5
Owning a fire arm does not make life safer for citizens.If everyone owns a firearm, at the slightest disturbance some will shoot first and then ask questions. Everyone lives on tender hooks, if you are in the right place at the wrong time you can fall victim of armed criminals, because dead men can tell no tales, or you can get caught in cross fire innocently minding your own business. And for some reason Americans seem to need machine guns to go hunting. Yeah .... hunting you know what .... I often wonder how many other countries allow citizens to own and carry a firearm as a constitutional right.
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