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Post by rational on Nov 30, 2014 16:08:40 GMT -5
Exactly, there is more at play here in the middle east than religion. One of the major goings on is control of territory and what goes on in that territory. Another issue seems to be that there is quite a few psychopathic killers over there. I recently read that the USA has a death by bullet annual rate of between 20000 to 30000. Wow. Whats all that about? Owning a fire arm does not make life safer for citizens.If everyone owns a firearm, at the slightest disturbance some will shoot first and then ask questions. Everyone lives on tender hooks, if you are in the right place at the wrong time you can fall victim of armed criminals, because dead men can tell no tales, or you can get caught in cross fire innocently minding your own business. I sense a lot of projection in this post. I am not sure how this makes a difference on the average citizen. While there is the occasional innocent bystander the majority of the murders are between members who have a disagreement. Just agree and all will be well! Remember that of that 30,000 about 60% are self inflicted - perhaps people who do not agree with their decisions. Not that it makes anything any better but unless the shooter is a terrible shot you are safe!
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Post by rational on Nov 30, 2014 16:11:59 GMT -5
I often wonder how many other countries allow citizens to own and carry a firearm as a constitutional right. Three is a good number, being odd and prime. (As well as the correct answer.)
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Post by snow on Nov 30, 2014 17:10:57 GMT -5
And for some reason Americans seem to need machine guns to go hunting. Yeah .... hunting you know what .... I often wonder how many other countries allow citizens to own and carry a firearm as a constitutional right. The States is still a tad red neck! There is something about bibles and guns and I for the life of me can't quite understand the connection, but it's there.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2014 18:12:31 GMT -5
I often wonder how many other countries allow citizens to own and carry a firearm as a constitutional right. The States is still a tad red neck! There is something about bibles and guns and I for the life of me can't quite understand the connection, but it's there. It makes the mind boggle, why this fascination with guns? Some folks don't have just one gun, but a whole collection of them and seem to worship them; even fairly elderly folks seem to have this fascination with guns. It make it so easy for youngsters to get hold of them and do mischief with them even in schools as we have been seeing in recent years; guns are lethal weapons and not toys which sometimes look like real guns. There was an old saying when I was a lad growing up: " you look like a monkey handling gun or never allow a monkey to handle a gun." I wonder why?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2014 18:15:35 GMT -5
The States is still a tad red neck! There is something about bibles and guns and I for the life of me can't quite understand the connection, but it's there. It makes the mind boggle, why this fascination with guns? Some folks don't have just one gun, but a whole collection of them and seem to worship them; even fairly elderly folks seem to have this fascination with guns. It make it so easy for youngsters to get hold of them and do mischief with them even in schools as we have been seeing in recent years; guns are lethal weapons and not toys which sometimes look like real guns. There was an old saying when I was a lad growing up: " you look like a monkey handling gun or never allow a monkey to handle a gun." I wonder why? blame the british if they hadn't tried confiscating firearms it would have changed the way america looks at them i'll bet...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2014 18:26:44 GMT -5
It makes the mind boggle, why this fascination with guns? Some folks don't have just one gun, but a whole collection of them and seem to worship them; even fairly elderly folks seem to have this fascination with guns. It make it so easy for youngsters to get hold of them and do mischief with them even in schools as we have been seeing in recent years; guns are lethal weapons and not toys which sometimes look like real guns. There was an old saying when I was a lad growing up: " you look like a monkey handling gun or never allow a monkey to handle a gun." I wonder why? blame the british if they hadn't tried confiscating firearms it would have changed the way america looks at them i'll bet... Well every time somebody get shot to death in the USA then their surviving relatives and sympathetic citizens should demand a declaration of war on the British, because The British have no such gun ownership law enshrined in their Constitution; actually they don't even have a written Constitution document.
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Post by rational on Nov 30, 2014 18:28:54 GMT -5
The States is still a tad red neck! There is something about bibles and guns and I for the life of me can't quite understand the connection, but it's there. It makes the mind boggle, why this fascination with guns? Some folks don't have just one gun, but a whole collection of them and seem to worship them; even fairly elderly folks seem to have this fascination with guns. It make it so easy for youngsters to get hold of them and do mischief with them even in schools as we have been seeing in recent years; guns are lethal weapons and not toys which sometimes look like real guns. There was an old saying when I was a lad growing up: " you look like a monkey handling gun or never allow a monkey to handle a gun." I wonder why? Collecting guns, cars, steam engines, siege engines, or Hummel figurines. This is not the problem. Guns are interesting. Any hand held device that can propel over 700 projectiles a minute to a distance of 6-800 meters is interesting. It allows the user to reach out and inflict damage without, in general, endangering themselves. I am not a gun collector. I haven't hunted game in 40 years. However, I can see the attraction of firing a weapon. And firing it 200 times in a very short time is, to me interesting and exciting. I believe it is a cultural issue that, while very noticeable in the US, is also found in many other cultures. Sadly it is not always the good guys that have the guns.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2014 22:07:34 GMT -5
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 30, 2014 23:30:37 GMT -5
It makes the mind boggle, why this fascination with guns? Some folks don't have just one gun, but a whole collection of them and seem to worship them; even fairly elderly folks seem to have this fascination with guns. It make it so easy for youngsters to get hold of them and do mischief with them even in schools as we have been seeing in recent years; guns are lethal weapons and not toys which sometimes look like real guns. There was an old saying when I was a lad growing up: " you look like a monkey handling gun or never allow a monkey to handle a gun." I wonder why? Collecting guns, cars, steam engines, siege engines, or Hummel figurines. This is not the problem. Guns are interesting. Any hand held device that can propel over 700 projectiles a minute to a distance of 6-800 meters is interesting. It allows the user to reach out and inflict damage without, in general, endangering themselves. I am not a gun collector. I haven't hunted game in 40 years. However, I can see the attraction of firing a weapon. And firing it 200 times in a very short time is, to me interesting and exciting. I believe it is a cultural issue that, while very noticeable in the US, is also found in many other cultures. Sadly it is not always the good guys that have the guns. You are quite right. The US has a very sizeable gun culture, and people celebrate teaching their elementary school kids how to shoot guns. Occasionally it backfires -- near here an 11 year old girl shot and killed her instructor at their local gun club. The first shot knocked her down and the second one of the later ones got him in the head. But some US states have some unusual laws related to guns and/or murder. Unless it's been changed, and man in Texas is entitled to shoot his wife is she has been cheating on him. In Louisiana you are entitled to shoot someone walking across your lawn. Gun manufacturing is very big business in this country. It turns out that US gun manufacturers have supplied 80% of the drug cartels' arsenals in Mexico.
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Post by rational on Nov 30, 2014 23:34:26 GMT -5
Collecting guns, cars, steam engines, siege engines, or Hummel figurines. This is not the problem. Guns are interesting. Any hand held device that can propel over 700 projectiles a minute to a distance of 6-800 meters is interesting. It allows the user to reach out and inflict damage without, in general, endangering themselves. I am not a gun collector. I haven't hunted game in 40 years. However, I can see the attraction of firing a weapon. And firing it 200 times in a very short time is, to me interesting and exciting. I believe it is a cultural issue that, while very noticeable in the US, is also found in many other cultures. Sadly it is not always the good guys that have the guns. You are quite right. The US has a very sizeable gun culture, and people celebrate teaching their elementary school kids how to shoot guns. Occasionally it backfires -- near here an 11 year old girl shot and killed her instructor at their local gun club. The first shot knocked her down and the second one of the later ones got him in the head. But some US states have some unusual laws related to guns and/or murder. Unless it's been changed, and man in Texas is entitled to shoot his wife is she has been cheating on him. In Louisiana you are entitled to shoot someone walking across your lawn. Gun manufacturing is very big business in this country. It turns out that US gun manufacturers have supplied 80% of the drug cartels' arsenals in Mexico. I understand that the major automobile manufacturers have provided a means of transportation to the drug cartels as well.
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 30, 2014 23:42:49 GMT -5
It makes the mind boggle, why this fascination with guns? Some folks don't have just one gun, but a whole collection of them and seem to worship them; even fairly elderly folks seem to have this fascination with guns. It make it so easy for youngsters to get hold of them and do mischief with them even in schools as we have been seeing in recent years; guns are lethal weapons and not toys which sometimes look like real guns. There was an old saying when I was a lad growing up: " you look like a monkey handling gun or never allow a monkey to handle a gun." I wonder why? blame the british if they hadn't tried confiscating firearms it would have changed the way america looks at them i'll bet... The actual blame for the right of individuals to own firearms originated approximately during the presidency of Reagan, when the Supreme Court changed the meaning of the second amendment to apply to individuals. The 2nd amendment uses the word "people", not "persons". In law, "people" refers to the state, and "persons" refers to individuals. Note that in the 5th Amendment it says it applies to "persons", NOT the state. Also, the 2nd amendment clearly states that the state's possession of firearms was to in the form of a "well regulated militia", not in person's private possession. The exact reason that the 2nd amendment was added to the US Constitution was because, after the Constitution was adopted and the 13 states were no longer independent countries, there was still concern that states might attack themselves, or have no means of putting down an internal rebellion in their own state. So the 2nd amendment was added to permit the individual states to organize and maintain what we now call their National Guards. What country's constitution gives people the right to arm themselves against their own government and military? Nuff said.
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 30, 2014 23:46:54 GMT -5
You are quite right. The US has a very sizeable gun culture, and people celebrate teaching their elementary school kids how to shoot guns. Occasionally it backfires -- near here an 11 year old girl shot and killed her instructor at their local gun club. The first shot knocked her down and the second one of the later ones got him in the head. But some US states have some unusual laws related to guns and/or murder. Unless it's been changed, and man in Texas is entitled to shoot his wife is she has been cheating on him. In Louisiana you are entitled to shoot someone walking across your lawn. Gun manufacturing is very big business in this country. It turns out that US gun manufacturers have supplied 80% of the drug cartels' arsenals in Mexico. I understand that the major automobile manufacturers have provided a means of transportation to the drug cartels as well. It might be a good idea for the Mexican border patrol to inspect cargo leaving the US as well as coming in -- we're in effect arming the people who are waging the drug was against us. They discovered a gun store in a tiny little village in New Mexico, right on the border, who was doing a fantastic business selling guns. Enough guns every week to supply everyone in the village. They discovered that they were all going off into the desert on the Mexican side of the border. Is no one writing good novels about this stuff?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2014 23:53:11 GMT -5
blame the british if they hadn't tried confiscating firearms it would have changed the way america looks at them i'll bet... The actual blame for the right of individuals to own firearms originated approximately during the presidency of Reagan, when the Supreme Court changed the meaning of the second amendment to apply to individuals. The 2nd amendment uses the word "people", not "persons". In law, "people" refers to the state, and "persons" refers to individuals. Note that in the 5th Amendment it says it applies to "persons", NOT the state. Also, the 2nd amendment clearly states that the state's possession of firearms was to in the form of a "well regulated militia", not in person's private possession. The exact reason that the 2nd amendment was added to the US Constitution was because, after the Constitution was adopted and the 13 states were no longer independent countries, there was still concern that states might attack themselves, or have no means of putting down an internal rebellion in their own state. So the 2nd amendment was added to permit the individual states to organize and maintain what we now call their National Guards. What country's constitution gives people the right to arm themselves against their own government and military? Nuff said. what you forget is how they put the 2nd into practice, how did they put it into practice? 1. they opened gunshops in the colonies 2. then ANYONE who could afford it could walk in and buy a firearm no questions asked... you should really give the 2nd amendment primer a read bob...
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 30, 2014 23:54:22 GMT -5
The actual blame for the right of individuals to own firearms originated approximately during the presidency of Reagan, when the Supreme Court changed the meaning of the second amendment to apply to individuals. The 2nd amendment uses the word "people", not "persons". In law, "people" refers to the state, and "persons" refers to individuals. Note that in the 5th Amendment it says it applies to "persons", NOT the state. Also, the 2nd amendment clearly states that the state's possession of firearms was to in the form of a "well regulated militia", not in person's private possession. The exact reason that the 2nd amendment was added to the US Constitution was because, after the Constitution was adopted and the 13 states were no longer independent countries, there was still concern that states might attack themselves, or have no means of putting down an internal rebellion in their own state. So the 2nd amendment was added to permit the individual states to organize and maintain what we now call their National Guards. What country's constitution gives people the right to arm themselves against their own government and military? Nuff said. what you forget is how they put the 2nd into practice, how did they put it into practice? 1. they opened gunshops in the colonies 2. then ANYONE who could afford it could walk in and buy a firearm no questions asked... you should really give the 2nd amendment primer a read bob... No thanks. I took the law school course.
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Post by rational on Dec 1, 2014 0:00:23 GMT -5
What country's constitution gives people the right to arm themselves against their own government and military? Nuff said. Mexico?
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 1, 2014 0:10:01 GMT -5
What country's constitution gives people the right to arm themselves against their own government and military? Nuff said. Mexico? Mexico doesn't allow people to carry firearms.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2014 4:07:42 GMT -5
Mexico doesn't allow people to carry firearms. Even so, is it a case of what is good for the goose must be good for the gander? Should not the gander try to to show a better example? In my opinion the gun culture attracts the minds of savages, no offence intended to the decent citizens. I have watched a few demonstrations in the USA against pigeon shooting on You tube, it was sickening to watch the wounded birds suffer, and they call it game sport. The Police were there protecting the shooters' Rights and freedom to game shoot. I like to quote old wise sayings and here is one: a dog was harassing a frog playing very rough, after a few minutes the frog protested the treatment and the dog said "I am just have fun with you" to which the frog replied: "yeh, what may be fun sport for you is death for me, so cut it out."
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2014 4:44:53 GMT -5
Absolutely pathetic, old folks excited about killing people, at least one sensible female said that it was too much violence, too much about killing people.
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Post by snow on Dec 1, 2014 11:50:41 GMT -5
It seems to me that those who feel more killing done is 'justice' really don't understand much about humanity. The fact that this is being hailed by Christians as being a wonderful thing with headlines, 'Justice is served' tells you a lot about the mindset. Religions really need to take a good long look at themselves and do some soul searching if they think this kind of thing is right. I don't support the killings of either side. I will point out that it is religious fervor that has caused this to happen in the first place. conservativetribune.com/kenyan-government-100-muslims/
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Post by rational on Dec 1, 2014 12:00:00 GMT -5
Mexico doesn't allow people to carry firearms. No, but that was not the question. It was a constitutional question. Article 10 of the present Constitution gives the people the right to own firearms.
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Post by rational on Dec 1, 2014 12:11:34 GMT -5
The exact reason that the 2nd amendment was added to the US Constitution was because, after the Constitution was adopted and the 13 states were no longer independent countries, there was still concern that states might attack themselves, or have no means of putting down an internal rebellion in their own state. So the 2nd amendment was added to permit the individual states to organize and maintain what we now call their National Guards. Of course, the members of the National Guard are members of the militia of the United States and the Nation Guard units are under the duel control of the federal government and the state government. The DoD, army, and air force are heavily invested as well. Not sure who would be in control if push came to shove.
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 1, 2014 19:02:45 GMT -5
Mexico doesn't allow people to carry firearms. No, but that was not the question. It was a constitutional question. Article 10 of the present Constitution gives the people the right to own firearms. That is "people", not "persons". I was treating it like a constitutional question. My error was that I used the word "people" -- Mexico doesn't give "persons" the right to carry firearms. In democracies, "people" means the "state", and "persons" means individuals.
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 1, 2014 19:14:39 GMT -5
The exact reason that the 2nd amendment was added to the US Constitution was because, after the Constitution was adopted and the 13 states were no longer independent countries, there was still concern that states might attack themselves, or have no means of putting down an internal rebellion in their own state. So the 2nd amendment was added to permit the individual states to organize and maintain what we now call their National Guards. Of course, the members of the National Guard are members of the militia of the United States and the Nation Guard units are under the duel control of the federal government and the state government. The DoD, army, and air force are heavily invested as well. Not sure who would be in control if push came to shove. I've never heard of "Nation Guard". I was referring to the state national guards. Yes, I know there are army national guards, etc., but that's not what the 2nd amendment is about. That amendment was specifically added to the constitution for the benefit of the sovereign states. They're organized by the states and controlled by the states -- as the governor of Missouri demonstrated just recently. Of course, nothing in the constitution denies the federal government control over national defense, so the federal government maintains the right to call on the state national guards to assist the national military when they feel necessary. The state national guard in Nevada has taken action against federal agencies on occasion when they exceeded their mandate.
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 1, 2014 19:22:22 GMT -5
Mexico doesn't allow people to carry firearms. Even so, is it a case of what is good for the goose must be good for the gander? Should not the gander try to to show a better example? In my opinion the gun culture attracts the minds of savages, no offence intended to the decent citizens. I have watched a few demonstrations in the USA against pigeon shooting on You tube, it was sickening to watch the wounded birds suffer, and they call it game sport. The Police were there protecting the shooters' Rights and freedom to game shoot. I like to quote old wise sayings and here is one: a dog was harassing a frog playing very rough, after a few minutes the frog protested the treatment and the dog said "I am just have fun with you" to which the frog replied: "yeh, what may be fun sport for you is death for me, so cut it out." Only human beings kill for the fun of it. People who do that are not good people, unfortunately. They are called sadists.
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Post by déjà vu on Dec 1, 2014 19:44:49 GMT -5
Bobs quote Only human beings kill for the fun of it. People who do that are not good people, unfortunately. They are called sadists". you mean hunters?
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 1, 2014 20:30:19 GMT -5
Bobs quote Only human beings kill for the fun of it. People who do that are not good people, unfortunately. They are called sadists". you mean hunters? I mean People who kill for the fun/sport of it, not people who kill for food.
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Post by dmmichgood on Dec 1, 2014 23:08:20 GMT -5
The actual blame for the right of individuals to own firearms originated approximately during the presidency of Reagan, when the Supreme Court changed the meaning of the second amendment to apply to individuals. The 2nd amendment uses the word "people", not "persons". In law, "people" refers to the state, and "persons" refers to individuals. Note that in the 5th Amendment it says it applies to "persons", NOT the state. Also, the 2nd amendment clearly states that the state's possession of firearms was to in the form of a "well regulated militia", not in person's private possession. The exact reason that the 2nd amendment was added to the US Constitution was because, after the Constitution was adopted and the 13 states were no longer independent countries, there was still concern that states might attack themselves, or have no means of putting down an internal rebellion in their own state. So the 2nd amendment was added to permit the individual states to organize and maintain what we now call their National Guards. What country's constitution gives people the right to arm themselves against their own government and military? Nuff said. what you forget is how they put the 2nd into practice, how did they put it into practice? 1. they opened gunshops in the colonies 2. then ANYONE who could afford it could walk in and buy a firearm no questions asked... you should really give the 2nd amendment primer a read bob... Oh Wally, your information of history constantly overwhelms me!
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 1, 2014 23:22:14 GMT -5
what you forget is how they put the 2nd into practice, how did they put it into practice? 1. they opened gunshops in the colonies 2. then ANYONE who could afford it could walk in and buy a firearm no questions asked... you should really give the 2nd amendment primer a read bob... Oh Wally, your formation of history constantly overwhelms me! Wally must be getting the same Tea-Party e-mails I am getting. I have never in my life read so much ignorant drivel in my lifetime. They seem to believe that anyone who went past the 8th grade in school is either delusional, stupid, brainwashed, Satanic, or Communist -- unless, of course, he is .... better not say. I get several e-mails daily. I have no clue how they got my e-mail address, but I am so startled by everything they write that I haven't yet decided to tell them to get lost.
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