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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 2, 2015 17:46:01 GMT -5
Slippery slope IS a Logic Fallacy. But it can also BE TRUE. You not only see this with euthanasia, the sexual revolution, drugs etc but it's quite common in politics. That's one reason why the West should never temper its values because it offends Islam - we give an inch and they want a mile. This slippery slope happened with Hitler, and it was a strategy for Communist parties. Example Many who promoted women in the Ministry in the Australian Uniting Church in the 1970's were accused of having hidden agendas such as homosexual priests. This was roundly denied. The church got its women priests and IMMEDIATELY the issue moved to gay priests ---- slippery slope. Hence the value of a toboggan.
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 2, 2015 17:54:09 GMT -5
Gay marriage? I know 2 gay men. They are gorgeous people. And extremely funny and good to be around. In a yr they will marry. One is my daughters best friend from school and was her matron of honour at her wedding. That caused a huge ruckus. It was her choice. Her wedding. Not mine. They dont need my judgement. They need my love and acceptance as human beings. I think with gay people most of the stigma is related to the sexual side of things. Hey who knows what your friends family neighbors do behind closed doors? Under the sheets. Etc etc etc. As a matter of fact, I learned by the most curious means that what even a perfectly normal long-time married heterosexual couple do between the sheets can get you called a pervert. So why try to please anyone.
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 2, 2015 17:55:03 GMT -5
Slippery slope IS a Logic Fallacy. But it can also BE TRUE. You not only see this with euthanasia, the sexual revolution, drugs etc but it's quite common in politics. That's one reason why the West should never temper its values because it offends Islam - we give an inch and they want a mile. This slippery slope happened with Hitler, and it was a strategy for Communist parties. Example Many who promoted women in the Ministry in the Australian Uniting Church in the 1970's were accused of having hidden agendas such as homosexual priests. This was roundly denied. The church got its women priests and IMMEDIATELY the issue moved to gay priests ---- slippery slope. "slippery slope?"
Why would that be a slippery slope?
If both were qualified to lead the church what would be the difference?
It would only be a slippery slope, if someone like yourself thought that it was wrong to have women & gay men leading the church.
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Post by rational on Mar 2, 2015 21:23:20 GMT -5
Exactly, NathanB. I said requirement, using the common definition, and you agreed. requirementa thing that is compulsory; a necessary condition.Jesus didn't have a choice. It was compulsory. If he did not do what he did Christianity would be a very different religion. There would need to be a completely different doctrine regarding someone dying to somehow cure the sins of some pair of mythical beings. Who knows - it might have been a kinder religion than one based on blood sacrifice and inherited sin(s). If this is your definition of a requirement then I disagree because it wasn't an obligation for Jesus to die on the Cross but by his own freewill and Love for humanity. This isn't my definition - it is the common definition of the word. What was the definition you had in mind?
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 2, 2015 22:28:05 GMT -5
If this is your definition of a requirement then I disagree because it wasn't an obligation for Jesus to die on the Cross but by his own freewill and Love for humanity. This isn't my definition - it is the common definition of the word. What was the definition you had in mind? Nathan should have been an attorney.
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 2, 2015 22:33:41 GMT -5
This isn't my definition - it is the common definition of the word. What was the definition you had in mind? Nathan should have been an attorney. God forbid! Perhaps he should have been English teacher?
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 2, 2015 23:08:49 GMT -5
Nathan should have been an attorney. God forbid! Perhaps he should have been English teacher?
But his logic is so inspeckable.
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 3, 2015 1:55:20 GMT -5
God forbid! Perhaps he should have been English teacher?
But his logic is so inspeckable. Then a philosopher maybe?
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 3, 2015 1:58:32 GMT -5
But his logic is so inspeckable. Then a philosopher maybe?Well, he does have a good foundation for that.
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 3, 2015 3:12:02 GMT -5
Nathan, if this is all really true that it had been decided "before the foundation of the world & agreed long, long ago by the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit... "
why does it say in the bible that Jesus "moved a little way from the three men to pray, and twice He asked His Father to remove the cup of wrath He was about to drink, but each time He submitted to the Father’s will. He was “exceedingly sorrowful unto death,” Jesus own human flesh did NOT want to die a horrible, and painful death of crucifiction on Calvary's Cross.... However, Jesus Spirit was willing and ready to die for humanity.... Because that was one of the main reasons for Jesus to be begotten by God the Father, the Holy Spirit and Mary. Problem with that argument, Nathan, is that Jesus hasn't been the only one who was willing to die for others. Just one instance: "England's Edward III, after a victory in the Battle of Crécy, laid siege to Calais, while Philip VI of France ordered the city to hold out at all costs. Philip failed to lift the siege, and starvation eventually forced the city to parley for surrender.
According to medieval writer Jean Froissart, Edward offered to spare the people of the city if any six of its top leaders would surrender themselves to him, presumably to be executed.
Edward demanded that they walk out wearing nooses around their necks, and carrying the keys to the city and castle. One of the wealthiest of the town leaders, Eustache de Saint Pierre, volunteered first, and five other burghers joined with him.[2]
Saint Pierre led this envoy of volunteers to the city gates."Many people throughout history has been willing to die to save others actual lives, -not just some idea of saving them from supposed sins!
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Post by bubbles on Mar 3, 2015 3:14:10 GMT -5
So? Xna why would you quote this one verse it made it appear like this was referring to CSA. If you read verse 31 - 37 its recalling how the child is healed by Elisha. 1st & 2nd Kings talks multiple times about the evil sodomites. But let's say a priest did this today, would they not he be investigated for CSA, regardless if the boy was dead or alive? If a child was dead I think I would try anything I was inspired to do. After CPR, defrib failed. If the child was naked? Probably. What if the child was healed?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2015 4:44:22 GMT -5
To dmg, Jesus death was VERY unique because ALL of humanity sins were laid on his shoulders! Jesus was the ONLY sacrificial Lamb of God that was acceptable before God the Father. No one on earth could take Jesus place. If Jesus had failed from going all the way to the Cross then there was NO salvation for anyone, from Adam to the last person on the earth.
Peter said in Acts 4:10-12 10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Nathan, we assume that Peter knew what he was talking about, but who was Peter anyway;what did he know about Jesus? Well, just do some research on the man and see if he was qualified to make such statements. I am being a little wickedly facetious, of course, as you have probably detected.
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Post by xna on Mar 3, 2015 6:04:37 GMT -5
What if the child was healed? That would be a "miracle".
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Post by bubbles on Mar 3, 2015 6:08:44 GMT -5
What if the child was healed? That would be a "miracle". Lol...yes of course..I meant I doubt they would regard it as CSA.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2015 6:35:28 GMT -5
Quote - "Problem with that argument, Nathan, is that Jesus hasn't been the only one who was willing to die for others."
True. Why Wiki English history? Just read your newspapers and see how many Muslims are happy to die for a cause! They will happily blow themselves and kill as many people as they can. But Jesus died to these human impulses. He didn't die for heroism, or hate, or revenge, or to satiate some lust with seventy virgins in heaven. Jesus came to die, and to lay down his life every day he lived.
This is his death:
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain. Like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised, and we held him in low esteem. Surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering, yet we considered him punished by God, stricken by him, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; ... he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth. By oppression and judgment he was taken away. Yet who of his generation protested? For he was cut off from the land of the living; ... Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin...
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Post by xna on Mar 3, 2015 6:51:02 GMT -5
That would be a "miracle". Lol...yes of course..I meant I doubt they would regard it as CSA. I was commenting on strange things can happen. Like the man and dead child story. But let's go down the road anyway. ;-) It depends on where the acts happened and the governing law. In the USA in AZ for example such acts as recorded in 2 Kings may fall under the crime of sex acts with a minor by necrophilia. www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/32/01364.htmIt seems a strange way to raise the dead. Why not just say an incantation.
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Post by bubbles on Mar 3, 2015 7:03:23 GMT -5
Lol...yes of course..I meant I doubt they would regard it as CSA. I was commenting on strange things can happen. Like the man and dead child story. But let's go down the road anyway. ;-) It depends on where the acts happened and the governing law. In the USA in AZ for example such acts as recorded in 2 Kings may fall under the crime of sex acts with a minor by necrophilia. www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/32/01364.htmIt seems a strange way to raise the dead. Why not just say an incantation. Lol..you and incantations. That would be like repeat repeat? I do believe in miracles and the impossible. Im sure you know that by now. Ps:many things are strange to us if we dont understand them.
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Post by xna on Mar 3, 2015 7:14:44 GMT -5
I was commenting on strange things can happen. Like the man and dead child story. But let's go down the road anyway. ;-) It depends on where the acts happened and the governing law. In the USA in AZ for example such acts as recorded in 2 Kings may fall under the crime of sex acts with a minor by necrophilia. www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/32/01364.htmIt seems a strange way to raise the dead. Why not just say an incantation. Lol..you and incantations. That would be like repeat repeat? I do believe in miracles and the impossible. Im sure you know that by now. Ps:many things are strange to us if we dont understand them. youtu.be/Ngc3_Pqnz_U
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Post by rational on Mar 3, 2015 8:49:39 GMT -5
However, Jesus Spirit was willing and ready to die for humanity.... Because that was one of the main reasons for Jesus to be begotten by God the Father, the Holy Spirit and Mary. So you are saying god created his son as a sacrifice? And an omniscient omnipotent omnibenevolent being could not come up with a better plan than to create a man to sacrifice? What about a cat?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2015 11:50:35 GMT -5
So you are saying god created his son as a sacrifice? And an omniscient omnipotent omnibenevolent being could not come up with a better plan than to create a man to sacrifice? What about a cat? Cats, dogs, bulls, and goats sacrifices wouldn't be acceptable to God the Father... Hebrews 10:4-9 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Sacrificial Lamb of God... His beloved God the son.... God the Father gave heaven's best God the Son as the atonement for our sins.
So Nathan, is there anywhere In the scriptures where God discouraged further human sacrifices to Him?
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Post by snow on Mar 3, 2015 12:40:30 GMT -5
xna, you need to report the you tube about the sun gods and just how many of them had the same 'MO' as the Jewish 'Christ'.
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Post by bubbles on Mar 3, 2015 14:19:15 GMT -5
Lol..you and incantations. That would be like repeat repeat? I do believe in miracles and the impossible. Im sure you know that by now. Ps:many things are strange to us if we dont understand them. youtu.be/Ngc3_Pqnz_ULol....its early. Volume on fone was high from yesterday. Im peering in the dark. Nrly leap out of my skin. Ya pest.
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Post by bubbles on Mar 3, 2015 14:23:12 GMT -5
Hey xna. Do you like Brian Cox? I love listening to him.
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Post by xna on Mar 3, 2015 17:19:50 GMT -5
Hey xna. Do you like Brian Cox? I love listening to him. Yes, me 2
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Post by xna on Mar 3, 2015 17:22:10 GMT -5
xna, you need to report the you tube about the sun gods and just how many of them had the same 'MO' as the Jewish 'Christ'. I often wondered why the RCC and many Christian sects dislike the study of astrology. Good to not go digging too much into the pagan past. ;-)
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Post by snow on Mar 3, 2015 18:32:14 GMT -5
xna, you need to report the you tube about the sun gods and just how many of them had the same 'MO' as the Jewish 'Christ'. I often wondered why the RCC and many Christian sects dislike the study of astrology. Good to not go digging too much into the pagan past. ;-) It's denied and I thought the apologist answer that the devil made all these earlier religions say the same thing to make Jesus look like a copycat savior, is pretty desperate. Jesus is just one of many in the ancient world. I can remember when I was doing all my research coming across that apologist response when pagans said Christianity was just a copy cat religion. The thing is they turned something that had always been recognized as a myth into a historical event.
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Post by xna on Mar 3, 2015 20:01:39 GMT -5
I often wondered why the RCC and many Christian sects dislike the study of astrology. Good to not go digging too much into the pagan past. ;-) It's denied and I thought the apologist answer that the devil made all these earlier religions say the same thing to make Jesus look like a copycat savior, is pretty desperate. Jesus is just one of many in the ancient world. I can remember when I was doing all my research coming across that apologist response when pagans said Christianity was just a copy cat religion. The thing is they turned something that had always been recognized as a myth into a historical event. I am amazed how well many old civilizations knew of movements in the night sky ie "heavens". They assigned agency to the unexplained and created a rich and lasting mythology. I can find the big and Little Dipper, but could never see any of the astrological figures. I guess I never had enough faith to be an astrologer.
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Post by snow on Mar 3, 2015 20:08:51 GMT -5
It's denied and I thought the apologist answer that the devil made all these earlier religions say the same thing to make Jesus look like a copycat savior, is pretty desperate. Jesus is just one of many in the ancient world. I can remember when I was doing all my research coming across that apologist response when pagans said Christianity was just a copy cat religion. The thing is they turned something that had always been recognized as a myth into a historical event. I am amazed how well many old civilizations knew of movements in the night sky ie "heavens". They assigned agency to the unexplained and created a rich and lasting mythology. I can find the big and Little Dipper, but could never see any of the astrological figures. I guess I never had enough faith to be an astrologer. Yes astrology was huge. I just finished a book on the old religions that formed in the Middle east, older than Judaism. Many of them knew so much about the night sky. The number 12 was used in most of the religions as being very significant. The 12 houses of the Zodiac is just one of many. Judaism based a lot of their religion on the number 12 and likely got most of that when they were in captivity in Babylon. The 12 tribes of Israel, 12 disciples etc are just too similar for it to be coincidence. Shows that their history was borrowed from earlier religions with a few changes to meet their unique beliefs.
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