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Post by maryhig on Mar 1, 2015 12:18:24 GMT -5
Yes Nathan God gave his only begotten son that whoever should believe on him shall not perish and shall have eternal life. But Nathan if you believe then you will follow him and live the life he's told us to live.
I can believe all I want I that I can pass an exam and be a doctor, but if I don't study and practice then I'll never pass! We have to follow in his footsteps to get to God, not just say I believe. Have you noticed this is why he gave his son, so we would believe in him, not put him to death.
Nathan we have to make a choice in what we believe, I believe it was a horrible sin to murder the son of God. You must believe what is right in your heart.
I must go and make my husband tea, so don't think I'm being ignorant. :-)
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Post by rational on Mar 1, 2015 15:18:07 GMT -5
Like Rational wrote it was a REQUIREMENT! A requirement? This means it was not a choice. It was not a selfless act but a required act. Not an act of love but fulfilling an obligation. Would the story of the good Samaritan be the same if the Samaritan had been required to help?
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 1, 2015 15:30:05 GMT -5
Like Rational wrote it was a REQUIREMENT! A requirement? This means it was not a choice. It was not a selfless act but a required act. Not an act of love but fulfilling an obligation. Would the story of the good Samaritan be the same if the Samaritan had been required to help? Makes the Good Samaritan look better than Jesus....
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 1, 2015 16:15:16 GMT -5
People who hurt cats (and dogs too, for that matter) are not normal. My cat and I are inseparable. I would say that people who hurt any animals and derive some pleasure from the act are not normal. But then, who doesn't feel some degree of pleasure when you slap a deer fly that has been biting you and you see it dead on the ground. Now let's consider the normalcy a person who states they are inseparable from their cat.... It's not my fault the cat follows me around all the time.
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stevo
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Post by stevo on Mar 1, 2015 17:26:15 GMT -5
Nathan yes it is a requirement to be born again, but as a child you must be, to enter into the kingdom of heaven, as a child forgives so easily when somebody hurts them say in a play ground they may cry for a bit but the next minute they are back to being friends that's what we should be like turn the other cheek. This is the requirement to first love your God and your neighbour as yourself. If Jesus had lived longer he would have carried on showing more and more people the things of God. But God knew before hand what evil was in the world as he foretold in the old testament what would happen to his son and Jesus knew that's why he prayed to his father to take this cup away from me, but as we must do his will we have to prepare for the things that people throw at us if you are to be a servant of God from the day you are born till the end.
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Post by Mary on Mar 1, 2015 17:33:58 GMT -5
If Jesus did not die on the Cross then we could not be forgiven our sins. He did not only die but he rose again.
Matthew 26:28 for this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Anyone can copy someone, but salvation is not in copying Jesus. Salvation is in Him dying on the Cross so we could be forgiven our sins. Believing in Him is the first step, but without his death on the Cross we could not receive forgiveness. we are just believing he was a good man to copy. There are plenty of good people we can copy.
Do you have communion Maryhig?
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 1, 2015 17:37:24 GMT -5
A requirement? This means it was not a choice. It was not a selfless act but a required act. Not an act of love but fulfilling an obligation. Would the story of the good Samaritan be the same if the Samaritan had been required to help? Jesus said it's a Requirement and a MUST to enter the kingdom of heaven "Ye, MUST be born again." There is NO other way. For humanity to be SAVED Jesus must die. Impelled by LOVE for humans Jesus died for our sins.This quote has nothing to do with Jesus being required to die. In fact, it doesn't say anyone has to die. All it says is that humans have to be born again. You just added the rest from your own belief system.
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Post by maryhig on Mar 1, 2015 17:43:47 GMT -5
A requirement? This means it was not a choice. It was not a selfless act but a required act. Not an act of love but fulfilling an obligation. Would the story of the good Samaritan be the same if the Samaritan had been required to help? Jesus said it's a Requirement and a MUST to enter the kingdom of heaven "Ye, MUST be born again." There is NO other way. For humanity to be SAVED Jesus must die. Impelled by LOVE for humans Jesus died for our sins.Nathan, can you tell me how Jesus dying on a wooden cross saved us? This happened to me one day:- Two mormons came to my door, and whilst talking about God, we started talking about the Cross. I asked the question above. They said he saved us by pouring out his blood on the cross. I asked them this: Imagine you are standing at the trial of Jesus and Pilate is saying, "who do you want freed, Jesus or Barabbas?" The crowd being influenced by the chief priests start shouting "barabbas" next Pilate says "what shall we do with Jesus which is called Christ?" and they are shouting "crucify him" I then said to the mormons, "if you were there what would you be shouting, seeing as you believed he died to save you? I was shocked at what one said, he said, "well I'd have to say crucify him, because he died to save me! " the other Mormon was horrified, and said "well I wouldn't, id be shouting save him!" and I agreed with him and said so would i shout save him, because it was a sin to murder the son of God! Later thought about it, and I saw they both had different hearts, like the thieves on the cross. One was all for himself being saved and one was all for Jesus being saved. I want the life of Jesus saving me, showing me how to live, not a dead Jesus suffering. That makes me feel sick. A requirement? This means it was not a choice. It was not a selfless act but a required act. Not an act of love but fulfilling an obligation. Would the story of the good Samaritan be the same if the Samaritan had been required to help? Jesus said it's a Requirement and a MUST to enter the kingdom of heaven "Ye, MUST be born again." There is NO other way. For humanity to be SAVED Jesus must die. Impelled by LOVE for humans Jesus died for our sins.
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Post by xna on Mar 1, 2015 17:51:05 GMT -5
The issue with "gay marriage" is itself sexist. If it's fine to have two men or two women marry then why shouldn't we allow ALL marital variations? Adult to Pubescent child marriage (pederast) Child to child marriage Temporary marriage (one nighter, weekender etc..) Bestial marriage (you do love your dog, right?) Polygamy Polyamory (non exclusive) etc Fallacy of the slippery slope? Strange things can happen ... 2 Kings4:34 And he went up, and lay upon the child, and put his mouth upon his mouth, and his eyes upon his eyes, and his hands upon his hands: and stretched himself upon the child; and the flesh of the child waxed warm.
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Post by maryhig on Mar 1, 2015 18:22:59 GMT -5
This quote has nothing to do with Jesus being required to die. In fact, it doesn't say anyone has to die. All it says is that humans have to be born again. You just added the rest from your own belief system. Jesus had to die on Calvary's Cross and shed his blood for our sins to be forgiven is NOT my own belief.... Hebrews chapter 9 ..... without shedding the blood of Jesus on the Cross, there is NO remission of sins for us. Without Jesus death and his precious blood shed for us there wouldn't be anyone to be SAVED. Jesus died so we can live/BORN AGAIN.Nathan we are going to have to agree to disagree. Or it will get into an argument and it's not right to argue over God! we will have to believe what we believe in, it's late here and I'm falling asleep I will speak tomorrow when I'm more with it and have read what you've written properly. Good night :-)
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stevo
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Post by stevo on Mar 1, 2015 18:23:22 GMT -5
Please tell me how by Jesus dying on the wooden cross has saved you and all the people that think they are saved.
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 1, 2015 19:44:22 GMT -5
Do you mean you don't believe in god now? or how the 2x2 believe? as god sees the heart and not religion or sect but I believe he uses us to get to other people. No, I don't believe the 2x2 or in any god now.
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 1, 2015 19:49:00 GMT -5
This quote has nothing to do with Jesus being required to die. In fact, it doesn't say anyone has to die. All it says is that humans have to be born again. You just added the rest from your own belief system. Jesus had to die on Calvary's Cross and shed his blood for our sins to be forgiven is NOT my own belief.... Hebrews chapter 9 ..... without shedding the blood of Jesus on the Cross, there is NO remission of sins for us. Without Jesus death and his precious blood shed for us there wouldn't be anyone to be SAVED. Jesus died so we can live/BORN AGAIN.This reference can support your claim -- the other one didn't.
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 1, 2015 20:29:04 GMT -5
Quote - "Does the rest in the fellowship meeting that you go too also believe as you?" Yes, of course. And we are glad for an unchanging way which goes back to Jesus. Correction - an unchanging way which goes back far before Jesus. Have you asked all of them what they believe?
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Post by rational on Mar 1, 2015 22:15:27 GMT -5
A requirement? This means it was not a choice. It was not a selfless act but a required act. Not an act of love but fulfilling an obligation. Would the story of the good Samaritan be the same if the Samaritan had been required to help? Jesus said it's a Requirement and a MUST to enter the kingdom of heaven "Ye, MUST be born again." There is NO other way. For humanity to be SAVED Jesus must die. Impelled by LOVE for humans Jesus died for our sins.No NathanB, the recorded sacrificial death of Jesus was a requirement. It was not done out of love - it was done as an obligation.
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Post by rational on Mar 1, 2015 23:34:01 GMT -5
No NathanB, the recorded sacrificial death of Jesus was a requirement. It was not done out of love - it was done as an obligation. You believe Jesus died on the Cross out of obligation? Can you give me any place in the Bible where you think it was done by obligation and NOT by LOVE. As you said, the sacrifice of Jesus was a requirement - not a choice. No sacrifice, no christianity. One is obligated to fulfill a requirement.
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Post by Mary on Mar 2, 2015 4:00:00 GMT -5
Maryhig I asked earlier if you have the bread and wine (communion) in your meetings?
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Post by maryhig on Mar 2, 2015 4:35:59 GMT -5
Maryhig I asked earlier if you have the bread and wine (communion) in your meetings? Hi Mary :-) Bread and juice on a Sunday yes.
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 2, 2015 5:36:36 GMT -5
Maryhig I asked earlier if you have the bread and wine (communion) in your meetings? Hi Mary :-) Bread and juice on a Sunday yes. HI, maryhig, how many are there in your church group, do you meet in other homes as well, or is it a kind of family group?
Liked that "Bread and juice!"
That is the way it is with the church we are talking about here. NO real wine
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Post by maryhig on Mar 2, 2015 5:49:10 GMT -5
Hi Mary :-) Bread and juice on a Sunday yes. HI, maryhig, how many are there in your church group, do you meet in other homes as well, or is it a kind of family group?
Liked that "Bread and juice!"
That is the way it is with the church we are talking about here. NO real wine
Hi DMG :-) We have 3 evening meetings and one Sunday one. all in various houses. The evening meetings are smaller and the Sunday one has up to around 30. It's not compulsory to attend and different people go to different meetings It's not all family, but there at a few who are related. We have a mixture of English Irish and Welsh. Just need some scots now! And we'll represent the UK! ;-)
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 2, 2015 5:53:37 GMT -5
HI, maryhig, how many are there in your church group, do you meet in other homes as well, or is it a kind of family group?
Liked that "Bread and juice!"
That is the way it is with the church we are talking about here. NO real wine
Hi DMG :-) We have 3 evening meetings and one Sunday one. all in various houses. The evening meetings are smaller and the Sunday one has up to around 30. It's not compulsory to attend and different people go to different meetings It's not all family, but there at a few who are related. We have a mixture of English Irish and Welsh. Just need some scots now! And we'll represent the UK! ;-) Hi. Thank you. Very interesting!
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Post by rational on Mar 2, 2015 9:48:00 GMT -5
It was you who said a requirement! first and I agree with you. My understanding of requirement is different than you. My understanding is Jesus, the Lamb of God who sacrificed his own life out of LOVE not by obligation. Exactly, NathanB. I said requirement, using the common definition, and you agreed. requirementa thing that is compulsory; a necessary condition.Jesus didn't have a choice. It was compulsory. If he did not do what he did Christianity would be a very different religion. There would need to be a completely different doctrine regarding someone dying to somehow cure the sins of some pair of mythical beings. Who knows - it might have been a kinder religion than one based on blood sacrifice and inherited sin(s).
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Post by bubbles on Mar 2, 2015 12:05:22 GMT -5
Gay marriage? I know 2 gay men. They are gorgeous people. And extremely funny and good to be around. In a yr they will marry. One is my daughters best friend from school and was her matron of honour at her wedding. That caused a huge ruckus. It was her choice. Her wedding. Not mine. They dont need my judgement. They need my love and acceptance as human beings. I think with gay people most of the stigma is related to the sexual side of things. Hey who knows what your friends family neighbors do behind closed doors? Under the sheets. Etc etc etc.
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Post by bubbles on Mar 2, 2015 12:13:21 GMT -5
Fallacy of the slippery slope? Strange things can happen ... 2 Kings4:34 And he went up, and lay upon the child, and put his mouth upon his mouth, and his eyes upon his eyes, and his hands upon his hands: and stretched himself upon the child; and the flesh of the child waxed warm. So? Xna why would you quote this one verse it made it appear like this was referring to CSA. If you read verse 31 - 37 its recalling how the child is healed by Elisha.
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Post by snow on Mar 2, 2015 13:27:00 GMT -5
Exactly, NathanB. I said requirement, using the common definition, and you agreed. requirementa thing that is compulsory; a necessary condition.Jesus didn't have a choice. It was compulsory. If he did not do what he did Christianity would be a very different religion. There would need to be a completely different doctrine regarding someone dying to somehow cure the sins of some pair of mythical beings. Who knows - it might have been a kinder religion than one based on blood sacrifice and inherited sin(s). If this is your definition of a requirement then I disagree because it wasn't an obligation for Jesus to die on the Cross but by his own freewill and Love for humanity. According to IJohn 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. Jesus said in John 15:12-13 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Not sure the Romans gave him much of a choice from what I've read.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2015 16:44:49 GMT -5
Slippery slope IS a Logic Fallacy. But it can also BE TRUE. You not only see this with euthanasia, the sexual revolution, drugs etc but it's quite common in politics. That's one reason why the West should never temper its values because it offends Islam - we give an inch and they want a mile. This slippery slope happened with Hitler, and it was a strategy for Communist parties.
Example Many who promoted women in the Ministry in the Australian Uniting Church in the 1970's were accused of having hidden agendas such as homosexual priests. This was roundly denied. The church got its women priests and IMMEDIATELY the issue moved to gay priests ---- slippery slope.
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 2, 2015 17:41:22 GMT -5
Not sure the Romans gave him much of a choice from what I've read. The choice already made with God the Father, God the Son before the foundation of the world....
By Love and God the Son/Jesus own freewill to die for humanity.... Pilate thought he had the final say! of Jesus death...
It had been decided and agreed long, long ago by the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit...
It was Jesus own choice and choosing to die for humanity. Nathan, if this is all really true that it had been decided "before the foundation of the world & agreed long, long ago by the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit... "
why does it say in the bible that Jesus "moved a little way from the three men to pray, and twice He asked His Father to remove the cup of wrath He was about to drink, but each time He submitted to the Father’s will. He was “exceedingly sorrowful unto death,”
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Post by xna on Mar 2, 2015 17:44:58 GMT -5
Strange things can happen ... 2 Kings4:34 And he went up, and lay upon the child, and put his mouth upon his mouth, and his eyes upon his eyes, and his hands upon his hands: and stretched himself upon the child; and the flesh of the child waxed warm. So? Xna why would you quote this one verse it made it appear like this was referring to CSA. If you read verse 31 - 37 its recalling how the child is healed by Elisha. 1st & 2nd Kings talks multiple times about the evil sodomites. But let's say a priest did this today, would they not he be investigated for CSA, regardless if the boy was dead or alive?
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