|
Post by mdm on Sept 28, 2014 19:16:50 GMT -5
Very funny Your spiritual dimension is actually coming through very clear even through the internet Or... was that actually a serious question??? Perhaps it's not clear that I was referring to a conversations with Rational on another thread, in which he claimed that it is erroneous for me to talk about certain issues from the spiritual perspective, because he doesn't believe that there is a spiritual aspect/dimension to anything. That's what I was referring to when I said that "at least for Christians, anything that has to do with relationships has a a spiritual dimension." I mean, think about it: if I am a Christian, that means that I believe that everyone has a "spiritual dimension," whether they believe it or not, so how could I say that non-Christians don't have a spiritual dimension??? That would be contradicting myself. Yes, that actually was a serious question. And it was clear to me who you were talking to and what you said. But rational didn't say there was no spiritual dimension to ANYTHING, he said there was no spiritual dimension to sex education -- and I add: in humans or in dogs or in bumble bees. And I know what you think because you are a "Christian" -- everything is spiritual -- perhaps even washing the dishes as one worker suggested. What you're really referring to is a Christian code of moral conduct, which has no basis in sexual biology or sexuality. The problem with such a Christian concept of sex education is that they are more interested in preventing unmarried people from having sex than in the science of human biology. The equivalent to "spiritual dimension" in non-Christian lingo is "moral and ethical consciousness" -- principles above one's greedy human nature. It works every bit as well for sexual instruction as does Christian spiritual dimension -- just without the Christian judgment aspect. And from your response I am more convinced than before you answered that you were implying that non-Christians had no moral guidance when it comes to sex education. I resent that. And I assume that unless you e-mail someone privately that it was posted for everyone to read, and respond to. I was not referring here to this particular conversation with rational, but one in a different thread. Really, I don't think that 'everything' is spiritual, but anything that has to do with human relationships. I was not discussing anyone's standards except those in the church. Why do you feel anyone is talking about non-Christians? It is common knowledge that everybody has their own moral and ethical standards. You don't need to tell me that. I grew up in an atheist home and my parents had moral standards and gave me moral guidance. That was not the subject of the conversation.
|
|
|
Post by mdm on Sept 28, 2014 19:55:56 GMT -5
Poor Bob & Rational.
Sounds as if the self-proclaimed Goddess with her self-endowed power has just banished you two from her exclusive realm of imagined spirituality where she reigns supreme!
Poor lost boys! I think this response is uncalled for. People have different positions/beliefs and when they are voiced they should be responded to, if one wishes, but personal attacks do not engender open discussion. mdm expressed her/his opinion. I think there was a slight misunderstanding in the discussion between mdm and myself that led us off track for a bit. I wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt and assume she was just being funny. I hope it was just good natured humor, nothing derogatory there.
|
|
|
Post by mdm on Sept 28, 2014 20:02:01 GMT -5
Very funny Your spiritual dimension is actually coming through very clear even through the internet Or... was that actually a serious question??? Perhaps it's not clear that I was referring to a conversations with Rational on another thread, in which he claimed that it is erroneous for me to talk about certain issues from the spiritual perspective, because he doesn't believe that there is a spiritual aspect/dimension to anything. That's what I was referring to when I said that "at least for Christians, anything that has to do with relationships has a a spiritual dimension." I mean, think about it: if I am a Christian, that means that I believe that everyone has a "spiritual dimension," whether they believe it or not, so how could I say that non-Christians don't have a spiritual dimension??? That would be contradicting myself. Maja, would you print the post where Rational, or anyone else, for that matter; "claimed that it is erroneous to talk about certain issues from the spiritual perspective, because they don't believe that there is a spiritual aspect/dimension to anything?"
I can't seem to find such a post.
I am sorry, but I don't have time to look for the particular thread and post. Rational is quite welcome to state what he thinks, and I'll be delighted if he actually doesn't think what I stated above.
|
|
|
Post by SharonArnold on Sept 28, 2014 20:04:16 GMT -5
I think this response is uncalled for. People have different positions/beliefs and when they are voiced they should be responded to, if one wishes, but personal attacks do not engender open discussion. mdm expressed her/his opinion. I think there was a slight misunderstanding in the discussion between mdm and myself that led us off track for a bit. I wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt and assume she was just being funny. I hope it was just good natured humor, nothing derogatory there. Hopefully everyone is kind of joking here. Otherwise, things just got really weird!
|
|
|
Post by mdm on Sept 28, 2014 20:15:39 GMT -5
I wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt and assume she was just being funny. I hope it was just good natured humor, nothing derogatory there. Hopefully everyone is kind of joking here. Otherwise, things just got really weird! If dmmichgood 's post wasn't a friendly joke, then it was mean spirited. I'll still give her the benefit of the doubt, unless she wants to prove me wrong.
|
|
|
Post by mdm on Sept 28, 2014 20:23:44 GMT -5
Yes, in fact, from now on, I banish you to the world of matter and take away your spiritual dimension and access to the spiritual realm! I'll banish Bob too, so you have somebody too keep you company. If you stop mocking, perhaps I'll reverse that. Ahh, the power of exclusiveness! I wasn't mocking you. I was aghast at your Christian self-righteousness. I am sorry, but I really don't know what you are talking about. I wasn't making a judgment on Rational or any non-Christians. The conversation was about spiritual issues as perceived in the Christian community.
|
|
|
Post by rational on Sept 28, 2014 20:23:56 GMT -5
My wife attended a funeral yesterday in an Anglican Church an she brought home the booklet with the order of service and in it is printed The Apostles's Creed. And near the end it says: I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen. So Anglicans do believe in the holy Catholic Church., according to the Apostles's creed. Interesting. The only copy I had for reference was from the Episcopalian Church. Of course, it could have been printed by the Anglican Catholic Church! Anglican Online Information
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Sept 28, 2014 20:39:26 GMT -5
I wasn't mocking you. I was aghast at your Christian self-righteousness. I am sorry, but I really don't know what you are talking about. I wasn't making a judgment on Rational or any non-Christians. The conversation was about spiritual issues as perceived in the Christian community. I understand -- you don't know what I was talking about. But that's okay - I do.
|
|
|
Post by mdm on Sept 28, 2014 20:49:59 GMT -5
I am sorry, but I really don't know what you are talking about. I wasn't making a judgment on Rational or any non-Christians. The conversation was about spiritual issues as perceived in the Christian community. I understand -- you don't know what I was talking about. But that's okay - I do. Yes, I presume everyone knows what they themselves are talking about. I agree you do too.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Sept 28, 2014 22:01:52 GMT -5
I understand -- you don't know what I was talking about. But that's okay - I do. Yes, I presume everyone knows what they themselves are talking about. I agree you do too. You were the one that suggested people have a spirituality whether they know it or not. What all can we NOT know about ourselves.
|
|
|
Post by mdm on Sept 28, 2014 22:16:00 GMT -5
Yes, I presume everyone knows what they themselves are talking about. I agree you do too. You were the one that suggested people have a spirituality whether they know it or not. What all can we NOT know about ourselves. Well no, in fact that is not what I said. I said that I accept that Rational doesn't believe that the issues discussed have a spiritual dimension, to which you said: Well, pardon me. Only Christians have a spiritual dimension???, to which I replied that it should be obvious that as a Christian I believe that everyone has a spiritual dimension. First you are upset because you think I said that non-Christians don't have a 'spiritual dimension,' then you get upset because you think I said that you 'have' a spiritual dimension. I only said that I 'believe' that you have a 'spiritual dimension.'
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Sept 28, 2014 22:23:08 GMT -5
You were the one that suggested people have a spirituality whether they know it or not. What all can we NOT know about ourselves. Well no, in fact that is not what I said. I said that I accept that Rational doesn't believe that the issues discussed have a spiritual dimension, to which you said: Well, pardon me. Only Christians have a spiritual dimension???, to which I replied that it should be obvious that as a Christian I believe that everyone has a spiritual dimension. First you are upset because you think I said that non-Christians don't have a 'spiritual dimension,' then you get upset because you think I said that you 'have' a spiritual dimension. I only said that I 'believe' that you have a 'spiritual dimension.' But why do you believe a person has a spiritual dimension if he says he doesn't? I get a bit off-put when people presume to say something about me that don't believe. You don't like that either.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Sept 28, 2014 22:26:51 GMT -5
My wife attended a funeral yesterday in an Anglican Church and she brought home the booklet with the order of service and in it is printed The Apostles's Creed. And near the end it says: I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen. So Anglicans do believe in the holy Catholic Church., according to the Apostles's creed they have adopted. The only difference between the Anglican church and the Roman Catholic church is that the Anglican church does not accept the superior authority of the Bishop (pope) of Rome. On occasion Anglican priests have been accepted as priests in the Roman Catholic church, even if they are married.
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Sept 28, 2014 22:31:42 GMT -5
Maja, would you print the post where Rational, or anyone else, for that matter; "claimed that it is erroneous to talk about certain issues from the spiritual perspective, because they don't believe that there is a spiritual aspect/dimension to anything?"
I can't seem to find such a post.
I am sorry, but I don't have time to look for the particular thread and post. Rational is quite welcome to state what he thinks, and I'll be delighted if he actually doesn't think what I stated above. I am sorry, also.
Sorry that you or anyone can take the time to post what someone else claims, yet doesn't have the time to first check & make sure that is really what that person actually stated.
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Sept 28, 2014 22:43:46 GMT -5
Poor Bob & Rational.
Sounds as if the self-proclaimed Goddess with her self-endowed power has just banished you two from her exclusive realm of imagined spirituality where she reigns supreme!
Poor lost boys! I think this response is uncalled for. People have different positions/beliefs and when they are voiced they should be responded to, if one wishes, but personal attacks do not engender open discussion. mdm expressed her/his opinion. I think there was a slight misunderstanding in the discussion between mdm and myself that led us off track for a bit. Sorry, Rational, but my response about Maja, is exactly how I felt about maja saying:"I banish you to the world of matter and take away your spiritual dimension and access to the spiritual realm! I'll banish Bob too, so you have somebody too keep you company."
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Sept 28, 2014 23:09:00 GMT -5
Hopefully everyone is kind of joking here. Otherwise, things just got really weird! If dmmichgood 's post wasn't a friendly joke, then it was mean spirited. I'll still give her the benefit of the doubt, unless she wants to prove me wrong. Maja, you don't have to "give me benefit of the doubt."
I meant what I said.
You can call it mean-spirited if you like, but I do no care to have other people define my "spiritual dimension" just because they are a Christian and seem to feel that somehow gives them a right to do so.
You said: "I mean, think about it: if I am a Christian, that means that I believe that everyone has a "spiritual dimension," whether they believe it or not,....."
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Sept 28, 2014 23:19:51 GMT -5
You were the one that suggested people have a spirituality whether they know it or not. What all can we NOT know about ourselves. Well no, in fact that is not what I said. I said that I accept that Rational doesn't believe that the issues discussed have a spiritual dimension, to which you said: Well, pardon me. Only Christians have a spiritual dimension???, to which I replied that it should be obvious that as a Christian I believe that everyone has a spiritual dimension. First you are upset because you think I said that non-Christians don't have a 'spiritual dimension,' then you get upset because you think I said that you 'have' a spiritual dimension. I only said that I 'believe' that you have a 'spiritual dimension.' No, maja, that isn't only what you said. This what you said. "I mean, think about it: if I am a Christian, that means that I believe that everyone has a "spiritual dimension," whether they believe it or not,....."
I, for one, don't like to be told I have something, "whether (I) they believe it or not,....."
|
|
|
Post by bubbles on Sept 29, 2014 0:13:05 GMT -5
I think this response is uncalled for. People have different positions/beliefs and when they are voiced they should be responded to, if one wishes, but personal attacks do not engender open discussion. mdm expressed her/his opinion. I think there was a slight misunderstanding in the discussion between mdm and myself that led us off track for a bit. Sorry, Rational, but my response about Maja, is exactly how I felt about maja saying:"I banish you to the world of matter and take away your spiritual dimension and access to the spiritual realm! I'll banish Bob too, so you have somebody too keep you company."
I saw the humour how come you didnt?
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Sept 29, 2014 0:54:22 GMT -5
Sorry, Rational, but my response about Maja, is exactly how I felt about maja saying:"I banish you to the world of matter and take away your spiritual dimension and access to the spiritual realm! I'll banish Bob too, so you have somebody too keep you company."
I saw the humour how come you didnt? It's not humor when you're trying to excuse an insult.
|
|
|
Post by bubbles on Sept 29, 2014 4:12:58 GMT -5
You being supersensitive?
|
|
|
Post by bubbles on Sept 29, 2014 4:14:55 GMT -5
You being supersensitive?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2014 4:16:34 GMT -5
My wife attended a funeral yesterday in an Anglican Church an she brought home the booklet with the order of service and in it is printed The Apostles's Creed. And near the end it says: I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen. So Anglicans do believe in the holy Catholic Church., according to the Apostles's creed. Interesting. The only copy I had for reference was from the Episcopalian Church. Of course, it could have been printed by the Anglican Catholic Church! Anglican Online InformationYep, exactly what I have here printed in the funeral booklet my wife brought home.
|
|
|
Post by rational on Sept 29, 2014 7:35:25 GMT -5
Well no, in fact that is not what I said. I said that I accept that Rational doesn't believe that the issues discussed have a spiritual dimension, to which you said: Well, pardon me. Only Christians have a spiritual dimension???, to which I replied that it should be obvious that as a Christian I believe that everyone has a spiritual dimension. First you are upset because you think I said that non-Christians don't have a 'spiritual dimension,' then you get upset because you think I said that you 'have' a spiritual dimension. I only said that I 'believe' that you have a 'spiritual dimension.' But why do you believe a person has a spiritual dimension if he says he doesn't? I get a bit off-put when people presume to say something about me that don't believe. You don't like that either. I have to side with mdm on this one. It is a belief that s/he holds and is entitled to hold that belief. Now if it meant that I was going to be burned at the stake because of her/his belief about me than I would probably be inclined to request some proof!
|
|
|
Post by rational on Sept 29, 2014 7:42:32 GMT -5
I think this response is uncalled for. People have different positions/beliefs and when they are voiced they should be responded to, if one wishes, but personal attacks do not engender open discussion. mdm expressed her/his opinion. I think there was a slight misunderstanding in the discussion between mdm and myself that led us off track for a bit. Sorry, Rational, but my response about Maja, is exactly how I felt about maja saying:"I banish you to the world of matter and take away your spiritual dimension and access to the spiritual realm! I'll banish Bob too, so you have somebody too keep you company."
I guess because I don't believe that s/he has the power to banish me to anywhere I don't see it as offensive as you do. Oddly enough, I had the same feeling when the workers brought up the subject of excommunication and a lost eternity. If you do not believe in paranormal things going to hell in a handbasket could be the name of a new ride at Six-Flags! Or if you were to banish me to Neverland!
|
|
|
Post by rational on Sept 29, 2014 7:44:50 GMT -5
Interesting. The only copy I had for reference was from the Episcopalian Church. Of course, it could have been printed by the Anglican Catholic Church! Anglican Online InformationYep, exactly what I have here printed in the funeral booklet my wife brought home. In the link I provided "catholic" was printed with a lower case 'c' indicating that it was the "universal" Church. When you posted earlier you said: I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen.With an upper case 'C' for Catholic indicating the actual name of a church.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2014 7:47:37 GMT -5
Yep, exactly what I have here printed in the funeral booklet my wife brought home. In the link I provided "catholic" was printed with a lower case 'c' indicating that it was the "universal" Church. Ok.
|
|
|
Post by rational on Sept 29, 2014 7:52:37 GMT -5
In the link I provided "catholic" was printed with a lower case 'c' indicating that it was the "universal" Church. Ok. I was actually wondering if it was a printer's error, a copying typo by you, or if they really wanted to say "Catholic". A minute point but I was actually interested!
|
|
|
Post by rational on Sept 29, 2014 7:58:47 GMT -5
I am sorry, but I don't have time to look for the particular thread and post. Rational is quite welcome to state what he thinks, and I'll be delighted if he actually doesn't think what I stated above. I am doubtful that I ever posted it so looking it up would have indeed been very time consuming! I think when I stated that there was not a spiritual side to sex education you widened the scope a bit to include everything. But to be fair, I may not have posted it but without some definition of exactly what is meant by spiritual I think your observation is not inaccurate! Spiritual really does fall into the realm of the paranormal.
|
|