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Post by dmmichgood on Aug 23, 2014 23:30:33 GMT -5
I just noticed you guys can see eye to eye on a few things afterall in spite of your religious views? I have a 5 year old grandson who has Downs and his condition is labeled "special needs" according to the Board of Education. So, perhaps saying "special needs or learning disabled, etc., would be more appropriate here, don't you agree? When STR wrote about having a "defective" daughter, she put it in quotes, just as I did now. I thinnk it was simply a throwback to someone making a comment about children born with "defects." We really need to try to absorb the tone of a statement in this type of communication. Punctuation and emoticons help us do that, imo. Emy, I think that you may be right!
I need to apologize to STR
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Post by dmmichgood on Aug 23, 2014 23:39:52 GMT -5
There is nothing in my response that shows a lack of empathy with those who have birth defects. I guess it is what you have underlined that you take issue with. However, in the past Matt 10 and I have met and had warm and interesting discussions over a fine Merlot which I think is much more civilised than hiding behind the anonymity of a pseudonym on the TMB. Therefore my response is not as flippant as you infer! I always thought such a remark was just an invitation for a good sociable visit....perhaps more old country saying then we would do here....although it might be light beer or such,eh? As I have a "defective" daughter, I sure didn't take the remark to be something of the ilk of lacking empathy for our problems we face with such children! Simply because even the "defective" children are pretty much individualized as the "normal" or "non-defective" children....as in our own experience! Sharingtheriches, emy has brought to my attention what you probably really meant by the use of "defective" .
I believe she is right and I owe you an apology.
I am sorry to have mistaken your use of that word. My apology.
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Post by dmmichgood on Aug 23, 2014 23:42:24 GMT -5
Maybe you do under-rate yourself.
Maybe you looked at your life and made a decision based on your own thoughts without any supernatural cause involved.
but then again maybe i didn't and had a helping hand from my Lord God and master, but then again how could you be wrong? Right! How could I be wrong?
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Post by bubbles on Aug 24, 2014 1:14:50 GMT -5
Right! Calling a child a "defective child" just because it is born with birth defects is rather cruel & thoughtless.
Bubbles & DMG ~ I just noticed you guys can see eye to eye on a few things afterall in spite of your religious views? I have a 5 year old grandson who has Downs and his condition is labeled "special needs" according to the Board of Education. So, perhaps saying "special needs or learning disabled, etc., would be more appropriate here, don't you agree? Also, perhaps the word, defective, is better used for an appliance that doesn't work properly rather than a child who is born with a disability?
Ah. Defective is a new term to me. I love (downzies) they are cute and endearing. Dmmg See thats what I mean. That is aggreivating. You didnt need to repost 'definition Of faith' You did that deliberately to make a point. Thats the kind of thing I mean. undermining intelligence. Just saying. Not looking for a reaction.
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Post by bubbles on Aug 24, 2014 1:21:56 GMT -5
Bubbles - who on here suggested that Christians have no convictions? How can anyone have a conversation with someone who makes such a comment? Read what the man wrote -- he was talking about atheists, not Christians. She is probably just tired! Bob Geez who put your nickers in a twist. Settle Gretal. Rational Omg did you just defend me. Well arent you a sweety. Yes im tired. Il settle for that.
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Post by rational on Aug 24, 2014 8:14:17 GMT -5
Maybe you do under-rate yourself.
Maybe you looked at your life and made a decision based on your own thoughts without any supernatural cause involved. ::)
but then again maybe i didn't and had a helping hand from my Lord God and master, but then again how could you be wrong? A couple of questions - How could you determine there even was a "helping hand"? If it could be determined that there was some external force involved how would you know to whom to attribute the action?
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Post by rational on Aug 24, 2014 8:15:48 GMT -5
She is probably just tired! Bob Geez who put your nickers in a twist. Settle Gretal. Rational Omg did you just defend me. Well arent you a sweety. Yes im tired. Il settle for that. You missed the deleted "Possibly delusional. Or psychotic."!
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Post by rational on Aug 24, 2014 8:19:32 GMT -5
I love (downzies) they are cute and endearing. You will get a reaction for this. Would you say you also love thalidomide babies? "They are so helpless and grateful for your help." I personally found it offensive.
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Post by faune on Aug 24, 2014 10:03:10 GMT -5
I love (downzies) they are cute and endearing. You will get a reaction for this. Would you say you also love thalidomide babies? "They are so helpless and grateful for your help." I personally found it offensive. Rational ~ I really don't think Bubbles meant to be offensive here? However, I never heard of thalidomide babies until today. It just goes to show how some over-the-counter drugs in the past for anxiety, etc., can have lasting effects on unborn children. I noticed this was used back in the late 1950's, but now is classified as a cancer drug for certain diseases. Where was the Food and Drug Administration back then ~ did they even exist or were they just controlled by the pharmaceutical companies, as seems to even be a concern today ? So many drugs on the market today would promote the expression of "the cure is worst than the cause of the disease."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide
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Post by bubbles on Aug 24, 2014 10:47:04 GMT -5
Bob Geez who put your nickers in a twist. Settle Gretal. Rational Omg did you just defend me. Well arent you a sweety. Yes im tired. Il settle for that. You missed the deleted "Possibly delusional. Or psychotic."! Lol. Up to your old tricks I see
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Post by bubbles on Aug 24, 2014 10:56:13 GMT -5
I love (downzies) they are cute and endearing. You will get a reaction for this. Would you say you also love thalidomide babies? "They are so helpless and grateful for your help." I personally found it offensive. You will get a reaction also. It is absolutley beyond my comprehension that you or anyone would take offense. When I say love I mean it in the purest sense of the word. In an affectionate caring way. I mix with all kinds of disabilites daily. I play with them and care. Im an advocate for them. And they adore me. They are human beings and individually unique. You have insulted me making that stupid statement. take that you big oaf
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 24, 2014 12:47:26 GMT -5
As Usual DMG, you've taken a post into another realm that was not intended nor really said! Your show right in this very post what I was trying to show Bubbles that has always managed to come up on TMB. No where did I say we didn't have trouble with our daughter....fact is all I said was that the remark Irvine said about having a sociable discussion with someone onver a glass of wine WAS NOT showing lack of empathy OR at least I didn't read it that way. In reality, if a child is born with a "defect" that cannot be corrected it would seem to me that in accordance to what is normal for children of the same age, that child would be "defective" and I'm talking about birth defects that bring about inabilities to learn and even sometimes to the classification of being veggetables....a burden on their families as well as on themselves. Its not a sign of Irvine lacking empathy to these birth defects in children even to the point of the children being defective for him to speak to someone that he'd like to continue a discussion over a glass of wine. I found his invitation for this situation to be perhaps very courteous and of the old country politeness....it had nothing to do with talking down or looking down on anything....you're the one who took that into that realm..... Again, Bubbles....the posts have been completely picked apart...one derogatory and the other trying to explain as well as being defensive over a "sociable expression" uttered by someone else! Please tell me what other realm that I've taken this post into what it wasn't intended?
This is what you stated : "As I have a "defective" daughter, I sure didn't take the remark to be something of the ilk of lacking empathy for our problems we face with such children! Simply because even the "defective" children are pretty much individualized as the "normal" or "non-defective" children....as in our own experience! My reply was meant to be about people calling any child a "defective" child, (your post) Also making the remark: " I think this is one for a discussion over a glass of fine Merlot! ( Mr. Grey)
My point was referring to a child born with "birth defects" as being called a "defective" child. Perhaps I misunderstood you.
Perhaps I misunderstood what particular subject that Mr Grey was referring to. After reading his post over, I think he was referring to a post concerning the Egyptian Pharaoh and the Tenth Plague: Death of First born.
Neither, in my way of thinking, was a very thoughtful way of handling such a subject, considering the seriousness of the matter.
This thread is about "atheists beware! "
I now understand why!
DMG, please put these shoes on for a bit and see if we can come to where we all are trying to be in this issue.....Let's say that you went to a nursing seminar about certain childhood diseases and/or genetic deviations and at the noontime break, all there were to go to the nursing lounge on a particular floor of the hospital where the seminar was held....so while you are at the luncheon break and you didn't want any lunch there because you wanted to talk to people and you'd begun that and while you were doing that you'd ask a very good question of one of your peers that one of the seminary speakers happen to hear you ask. He said to you, "If you'll come over to this corner wher no one will be bothered, I would gladly go over your question you asked of your peer. It isn't going to be part of the seminar but I'll gladly speak to you about it. So you're bright-eyed and bushy tailed ready to learn something new....then out of courtesy you ask the man if he'd like a cup of coffee or a glass of iced tea while you discuss this question. He smiles at you and answers he'd like a cup of coffee/black....so you get yourself a cup of java and take his black coffee to him. Thus as he starts the discussion to answer you initial question, you both take sips of your coffee. Now why would you think it so awful if perhaps a social discussion with someone is done over "wine"....do you not know that sometimes wine is served instead of water due to the fact the water of that area isn't fit to drink? That people in that area almost always drink a glass of wine with all their meals except maybe breakfast. I can't quite see why you'd be so undone that Irvine Grey invited someone he has spent time with before hand and likely did sit and drink wine as they talked. It is a polite thing to do, in some parts of the world...it shows hospitality, that you want your guest to feel relaxed and enjoy their time with you. They are not out to drink so much wine that they are inebriated, etc! Sheesh! DMG.....why are you so undone over that phrase of Mr. Grey's?
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 24, 2014 13:06:59 GMT -5
Rational ~ I believe metaphorically Jesus' bloody death on the Cross was symbolic of the ram that was slain as a sin offering, while the other one was set free in Exodus 12, since Jesus paid our sin debt on the Cross according to Christianity. Good to know your beliefs. The question still remains. How many lives were saved? Not souls. Lives. Rational, technically without our souls we don't have "life" or lives. Genesis 2 King James Bible And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul
Rational...it is difficult to speak in such terms that you'd accept because as you've already pointed out, it is mostly our beliefs.....however when a person is drawn by the Father to the Son, that person will repent and seek redemption by believing in the sacrifice that Jesus Christ gave..that His blood will wash one's sins away. Then this person is "born again".....which is a "spiritual rebirth"....all must be born again..this is what Jesus told the ruler.....
and how this gets to be "saving" a life is the simple fact that once a person is born again(spiritually{ there will be a life form that lives of that person for all eternity.....simply because the spiritual birth takes precedence over everything else...the soul is saved, the life is saved...the life won't be there without the soul. The soul lives on when the earthly body of clay dies....so again the soul is a "life" saved for one day the soul will be re-united with a perfected body....one in such form as the SAviour has, for we will know him....those are the words of John in I John:
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 24, 2014 13:14:04 GMT -5
I just noticed you guys can see eye to eye on a few things afterall in spite of your religious views? I have a 5 year old grandson who has Downs and his condition is labeled "special needs" according to the Board of Education. So, perhaps saying "special needs or learning disabled, etc., would be more appropriate here, don't you agree? When STR wrote about having a "defective" daughter, she put it in quotes, just as I did now. I thinnk it was simply a throwback to someone making a comment about children born with "defects." We really need to try to absorb the tone of a statement in this type of communication. Punctuation and emoticons help us do that, imo. Thank you, very much, Emy....that's exactly why I wrote it like I did....however this daughter has been heard to tell others like herself that they were born defective but they aren't lucky like machinery where those defective parts can be exchanged with ones that aren't defective....they all laugh about it. This daughter spent most of her forming years in a children's colony. She was a great help to those who worked at the colony for she could get the smaller children and even the babies to take medications or allow themselves to be stripped in order to take a bath and put clean clothes on. We don't even think about this daughter having anything wrong with her any more...she has chosen where she wants to live and as she is doing great there, we have NO plans to change that for her.....she is capable of keepinghouse and cooking for herself...at the reservation they do have a common dining room where she can go to eat, should she want to. I think they finally let her go to work there, wrapping the silverware! She is very content and the director and the owners are perfectly content and help her with things that she can't handle like keeping up with her money, etc. She is no more defective then I am at the present...she was just born with hers, mine has come on through the years!
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Post by dmmichgood on Aug 24, 2014 13:53:34 GMT -5
Bubbles & DMG ~ I just noticed you guys can see eye to eye on a few things afterall in spite of your religious views? I have a 5 year old grandson who has Downs and his condition is labeled "special needs" according to the Board of Education. So, perhaps saying "special needs or learning disabled, etc., would be more appropriate here, don't you agree? Also, perhaps the word, defective, is better used for an appliance that doesn't work properly rather than a child who is born with a disability?
Ah. Defective is a new term to me. I love (downzies) they are cute and endearing. Dmmg See thats what I mean. That is aggreivating. You didnt need to repost 'definition Of faith' You did that deliberately to make a point. Thats the kind of thing I mean. undermining intelligence. Just saying. Not looking for a reaction. You was kidding weren't you, -that you wasn't looking for a reaction by calling children (downzies) that had Downs Syndrome?
"I love (downzies) they are cute and endearing"
Or were trying to say a remark like that from you would be equivalent to the post I made about the definition of "faith?"
Do you honestly do think those two remarks, my posting the definition of faith and your belittling remark about children with Down Syndrome are equivalent remarks?
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Post by xna on Aug 24, 2014 13:58:09 GMT -5
Life: Our understanding of life increases by using reason and the scientific method.
SOULS: A lot people, in different times have claimed to know about souls. Sorry to say it's all been wishful thinking by adults playing "let's make pretend".
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Post by dmmichgood on Aug 24, 2014 14:04:23 GMT -5
Please tell me what other realm that I've taken this post into what it wasn't intended?
This is what you stated : "As I have a "defective" daughter, I sure didn't take the remark to be something of the ilk of lacking empathy for our problems we face with such children! Simply because even the "defective" children are pretty much individualized as the "normal" or "non-defective" children....as in our own experience! My reply was meant to be about people calling any child a "defective" child, (your post) Also making the remark: " I think this is one for a discussion over a glass of fine Merlot! ( Mr. Grey)
My point was referring to a child born with "birth defects" as being called a "defective" child. Perhaps I misunderstood you.
Perhaps I misunderstood what particular subject that Mr Grey was referring to. After reading his post over, I think he was referring to a post concerning the Egyptian Pharaoh and the Tenth Plague: Death of First born.
Neither, in my way of thinking, was a very thoughtful way of handling such a subject, considering the seriousness of the matter.
This thread is about "atheists beware! "
I now understand why!
DMG, please put these shoes on for a bit and see if we can come to where we all are trying to be in this issue.....Let's say that you went to a nursing seminar about certain childhood diseases and/or genetic deviations and at the noontime break, all there were to go to the nursing lounge on a particular floor of the hospital where the seminar was held....so while you are at the luncheon break and you didn't want any lunch there because you wanted to talk to people and you'd begun that and while you were doing that you'd ask a very good question of one of your peers that one of the seminary speakers happen to hear you ask. He said to you, "If you'll come over to this corner wher no one will be bothered, I would gladly go over your question you asked of your peer. It isn't going to be part of the seminar but I'll gladly speak to you about it. So you're bright-eyed and bushy tailed ready to learn something new....then out of courtesy you ask the man if he'd like a cup of coffee or a glass of iced tea while you discuss this question. He smiles at you and answers he'd like a cup of coffee/black....so you get yourself a cup of java and take his black coffee to him. Thus as he starts the discussion to answer you initial question, you both take sips of your coffee. Now why would you think it so awful if perhaps a social discussion with someone is done over "wine"....do you not know that sometimes wine is served instead of water due to the fact the water of that area isn't fit to drink? That people in that area almost always drink a glass of wine with all their meals except maybe breakfast. I can't quite see why you'd be so undone that Irvine Grey invited someone he has spent time with before hand and likely did sit and drink wine as they talked. It is a polite thing to do, in some parts of the world...it shows hospitality, that you want your guest to feel relaxed and enjoy their time with you. They are not out to drink so much wine that they are inebriated, etc! Sheesh! DMG.....why are you so undone over that phrase of Mr. Grey's? sharingtheriches, go ahead & play it out however it suits you.
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Post by dmmichgood on Aug 24, 2014 14:20:04 GMT -5
Life: Our understanding of life is increases by using reason and the scientific method. SOULS: A lot people, in different times have claimed to know about souls. Sorry to say it's all been wishful thinking by adults playing let's make pretend. In today's comic strip "Get Fuzzy" Bucky B. Katt & Satchel Pooch are discussing "some deep stuff" like "Do we have souls?"
Wish I knew how to put it on a post, but I'm just not that computer literate.
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Post by xna on Aug 24, 2014 14:32:51 GMT -5
Life: Our understanding of life is increases by using reason and the scientific method. SOULS: A lot people, in different times have claimed to know about souls. Sorry to say it's all been wishful thinking by adults playing let's make pretend. In today's comic strip "Get Fuzzy" Bucky B. Katt & Satchel Pooch are discussing "some deep stuff" like "Do we have souls?"
Wish I knew how to put it on a post, but I'm just not that computer literate.
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Post by dmmichgood on Aug 24, 2014 14:39:59 GMT -5
I love (downzies) they are cute and endearing. You will get a reaction for this. Would you say you also love thalidomide babies? "They are so helpless and grateful for your help." I personally found it offensive. At first I thought she didn't really mean that statement. I really thought bubbles was just trying to compare such a statement with my statement defining faith.
Now I think she meant it. Yes, somewhat like the excuse European countries used as reason for colonizing African & Asian countries.
"They are so helpless and grateful for your help." the "White man's burden"
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Post by dmmichgood on Aug 24, 2014 14:41:22 GMT -5
In today's comic strip "Get Fuzzy" Bucky B. Katt & Satchel Pooch are discussing "some deep stuff" like "Do we have souls?"
Wish I knew how to put it on a post, but I'm just not that computer literate.
Thanks, xna!
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Post by faune on Aug 24, 2014 14:54:44 GMT -5
In today's comic strip "Get Fuzzy" Bucky B. Katt & Satchel Pooch are discussing "some deep stuff" like "Do we have souls?"
Wish I knew how to put it on a post, but I'm just not that computer literate.
Xna ~ Don't forget to share that cartoon on the Humor thread, too! Thanks for finding it for us!
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Post by xna on Aug 24, 2014 14:56:02 GMT -5
Xna ~ Don't forget to share that cartoon on the Humor thread, too! Thanks for finding it for us! Now for something real youtu.be/tO1yf_VlW90
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Post by matisse on Aug 24, 2014 15:06:00 GMT -5
Xna ~ Don't forget to share that cartoon on the Humor thread, too! Thanks for finding it for us! ;) Now for something real youtu.be/tO1yf_VlW90Thanks, xna.....that was worth watching to the end!
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Post by matisse on Aug 24, 2014 15:18:42 GMT -5
Life: Our understanding of life is increases by using reason and the scientific method. SOULS: A lot people, in different times have claimed to know about souls. Sorry to say it's all been wishful thinking by adults playing let's make pretend. In today's comic strip "Get Fuzzy" Bucky B. Katt & Satchel Pooch are discussing "some deep stuff" like "Do we have souls?"
Wish I knew how to put it on a post, but I'm just not that computer literate.
What a great strip! I wasn't familiar with it before today.
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Post by xna on Aug 24, 2014 15:41:04 GMT -5
Thanks, xna.....that was worth watching to the end! Yes, I suspect most are not aware and would find the end surprising. I'm not sure how the end of his policies will work out. BTW 41% of Uruguay professes no religion.
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Post by faune on Aug 24, 2014 15:41:45 GMT -5
Xna ~ Don't forget to share that cartoon on the Humor thread, too! Thanks for finding it for us! Now for something real youtu.be/tO1yf_VlW90 Xna ~ That was a cool video! Now that really does speak for real leadership in a country and the punch line at the end, after speaking about all his charitable deeds ~ he's an atheist! Just goes to show that atheists have a moral code just like the rest of humanity, huh? In fact, there have been a number of atheists in the past who were great humanitarians and philanthropists in the world. They had money and used it for the good of others, which is a noble deed and not inspired by any religious conviction either.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2014 15:45:22 GMT -5
I can't quite see why you'd be so undone that Irvine Grey invited someone he has spent time with before hand and likely did sit and drink wine as they talked. It is a polite thing to do, in some parts of the world...it shows hospitality, that you want your guest to feel relaxed and enjoy their time with you. They are not out to drink so much wine that they are inebriated, etc! You clearly haven't witnessed Dr Grey and I getting stuck into the wine ..... last time Dr Grey had to be removed from the restaurant by the police while I was found asleep under a bridge some two days later. Matt10
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