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Post by snow on Aug 1, 2014 10:55:49 GMT -5
The way I see it is if the world rallied behind the Palestinian people the way they rally behind Israel, they would be able to free the Palestinians from Hamas control pretty quickly. But who would want to help Muslims have any power.Snow ~ Probably no different from the anti-Simetism that was present in our own country back in the 1930's before WWII when Hitler was coming to power? People don't really need reasons to hate another when prejudice is so well imbedded into their psyches by their own politicians and social media, IMHO.
professing.proboards.com/thread/22253/voyage-damned-movie-anti-semitism
I know. People will hate. The communists, the Jews, the Muslims, the Japanese, the Protestants. If it isn't one group that is 'evil' it's another.
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 1, 2014 12:49:46 GMT -5
Snow ~ Probably no different from the anti-Simetism that was present in our own country back in the 1930's before WWII when Hitler was coming to power? People don't really need reasons to hate another when prejudice is so well imbedded into their psyches by their own politicians and social media, IMHO.
professing.proboards.com/thread/22253/voyage-damned-movie-anti-semitism
I know. People will hate. The communists, the Jews, the Muslims, the Japanese, the Protestants. If it isn't one group that is 'evil' it's another. There was a time in the US when Catholics were so hated that politicians campaigned against them and Protestants bombed their churches -- simply because they were evil Catholic scum. After we tire of the wicked Muslim plague, they will become respectable (and find it much easier to have peaceful lives) and some other group will become the whipping boy. And the harassment and reprisals will only get worse as the sophistication of our technology increases.
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Post by xna on Aug 1, 2014 13:13:07 GMT -5
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Post by snow on Aug 1, 2014 13:19:58 GMT -5
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Post by fixit on Aug 1, 2014 15:16:30 GMT -5
I know. People will hate. The communists, the Jews, the Muslims, the Japanese, the Protestants. If it isn't one group that is 'evil' it's another. There was a time in the US when Catholics were so hated that politicians campaigned against them and Protestants bombed their churches -- simply because they were evil Catholic scum. After we tire of the wicked Muslim plague, they will become respectable (and find it much easier to have peaceful lives) and some other group will become the whipping boy. And the harassment and reprisals will only get worse as the sophistication of our technology increases. Whose needle is stuck?
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Post by fixit on Aug 1, 2014 15:30:02 GMT -5
That was a rather biased report Snow. Its interesting that the UN fed 67% of Gaza's population while Hamas installed 9,000 rockets with which to terrorize Israel's civilians. Hamas also used 600,000 tons of materials to build terror tunnels. It would have been prudent for the UN to make sure their schools were not used to store rockets and other munitions, and to keep Hamas militants away from them. Its good that the UN takes care of the needy in Gaza, but it should find a way of keeping Gaza demilitarized. While the UN was feeding 67% of Gaza, more than 160 children died building terror tunnels.
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Post by fixit on Aug 1, 2014 15:37:00 GMT -5
The way I see it is if the world rallied behind the Palestinian people the way they rally behind Israel, they would be able to free the Palestinians from Hamas control pretty quickly. But who would want to help Muslims have any power. You're forgetting that western countries defended Bosnian and Kosovo Muslims from Christian Serbs. How would you suggest the world go about freeing the Palestinians from Hamas control?
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Post by snow on Aug 1, 2014 16:03:36 GMT -5
That was a rather biased report Snow. Its interesting that the UN fed 67% of Gaza's population while Hamas installed 9,000 rockets with which to terrorize Israel's civilians. Hamas also used 600,000 tons of materials to build terror tunnels. It would have been prudent for the UN to make sure their schools were not used to store rockets and other munitions, and to keep Hamas militants away from them. Its good that the UN takes care of the needy in Gaza, but it should find a way of keeping Gaza demilitarized. While the UN was feeding 67% of Gaza, more than 160 children died building terror tunnels. I didn't write it. The UN wrote it. Where are you getting your information? So it's okay to bomb a school just because Hamas might be there? What about the children? Israel has next to no casualties (thankfully), but you sure can't say the same about Palestine. Israel is not winning any credibility with the world by continuing to settle on land that is not theirs, and bombing civilians.
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Post by snow on Aug 1, 2014 16:05:08 GMT -5
The way I see it is if the world rallied behind the Palestinian people the way they rally behind Israel, they would be able to free the Palestinians from Hamas control pretty quickly. But who would want to help Muslims have any power. You're forgetting that western countries defended Bosnian and Kosovo Muslims from Christian Serbs. How would you suggest the world go about freeing the Palestinians from Hamas control? I have no idea, but I'm sure there are lots of folks out there that are a lot smarter than me. If they put their minds to it, I'm sure they'd come up with a solution.
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Post by fixit on Aug 1, 2014 16:11:20 GMT -5
You're forgetting that western countries defended Bosnian and Kosovo Muslims from Christian Serbs. How would you suggest the world go about freeing the Palestinians from Hamas control? I have no idea, but I'm sure there are lots of folks out there that are a lot smarter than me. If they put their minds to it, I'm sure they'd come up with a solution. It's happening as we speak Snow. No one but the Israelis have the means and the will to free the people of Gaza from the stranglehold of Hamas. Hamas loves death for Allah, but sadly it suits their purpose to take civilians with them...
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Post by fixit on Aug 1, 2014 16:16:49 GMT -5
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Post by snow on Aug 1, 2014 17:23:23 GMT -5
I have no idea, but I'm sure there are lots of folks out there that are a lot smarter than me. If they put their minds to it, I'm sure they'd come up with a solution. It's happening as we speak Snow. No one but the Israelis have the means and the will to free the people of Gaza from the stranglehold of Hamas. Hamas loves death for Allah, but sadly it suits their purpose to take civilians with them... Oh fixit, I sure wish you were right about Israel. I don't see them as freeing them, but I sure hope you're right. They have been under seize for so long that any child 7 and younger has never known a different life.
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Post by snow on Aug 1, 2014 17:29:27 GMT -5
I think you might want to look at who she supports in the States. The Republican Party which supports Israel because of their belief that Israel must be a state for Jesus to return. Actually they are supported by the fundamentalists who believe that Israel must be in place for Jesus to return. I would think that a journalist that supports the Republican Party just might be a tad more biased than the UN? Do you know how much funding goes to Israel from these big churches in the States?
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Post by fixit on Aug 1, 2014 17:53:30 GMT -5
I think you might want to look at who she supports in the States. The Republican Party which supports Israel because of their belief that Israel must be a state for Jesus to return. Actually they are supported by the fundamentalists who believe that Israel must be in place for Jesus to return. I would think that a journalist that supports the Republican Party just might be a tad more biased than the UN? Do you know how much funding goes to Israel from these big churches in the States? Being a Republican Party supporter doesn't necessarily make what she is saying wrong in this instance. I share your concern about Christian fundamentalist involvement. Sometimes I wonder if Christian and Muslim fundamentalists should sort it out between themselves and leave the rest of us out of it?
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Post by fixit on Aug 1, 2014 18:08:52 GMT -5
It's happening as we speak Snow. No one but the Israelis have the means and the will to free the people of Gaza from the stranglehold of Hamas. Hamas loves death for Allah, but sadly it suits their purpose to take civilians with them... Oh fixit, I sure wish you were right about Israel. I don't see them as freeing them, but I sure hope you're right. They have been under seize for so long that any child 7 and younger has never known a different life. Bleating for a ceasefire is probably not the best thing for the Gaza citizens. They need to be freed from the stranglehold of Hamas. What's needed is the demilitarization of Gaza, the removal of Hamas from power, and the opening of the border crossings. How can you speak of a siege? Surely a siege would prevent 9,000 rockets and 600,000 tons of tunnel materials entering Gaza? The Gazan people have all the outside support they need, but it won't benefit them while they're governed by Hamas.
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 1, 2014 20:27:58 GMT -5
There was a time in the US when Catholics were so hated that politicians campaigned against them and Protestants bombed their churches -- simply because they were evil Catholic scum. After we tire of the wicked Muslim plague, they will become respectable (and find it much easier to have peaceful lives) and some other group will become the whipping boy. And the harassment and reprisals will only get worse as the sophistication of our technology increases. Whose needle is stuck? Yours.
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 1, 2014 20:32:29 GMT -5
I think you might want to look at who she supports in the States. The Republican Party which supports Israel because of their belief that Israel must be a state for Jesus to return. Actually they are supported by the fundamentalists who believe that Israel must be in place for Jesus to return. I would think that a journalist that supports the Republican Party just might be a tad more biased than the UN? Do you know how much funding goes to Israel from these big churches in the States? Being a Republican Party supporter doesn't necessarily make what she is saying wrong in this instance. I share your concern about Christian fundamentalist involvement. Sometimes I wonder if Christian and Muslim fundamentalists should sort it out between themselves and leave the rest of us out of it? That would work if the run of the mill Christians only realized that their own fundamentalists were part of the problem.
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Post by snow on Aug 1, 2014 21:38:55 GMT -5
I think you might want to look at who she supports in the States. The Republican Party which supports Israel because of their belief that Israel must be a state for Jesus to return. Actually they are supported by the fundamentalists who believe that Israel must be in place for Jesus to return. I would think that a journalist that supports the Republican Party just might be a tad more biased than the UN? Do you know how much funding goes to Israel from these big churches in the States? Being a Republican Party supporter doesn't necessarily make what she is saying wrong in this instance. I share your concern about Christian fundamentalist involvement. Sometimes I wonder if Christian and Muslim fundamentalists should sort it out between themselves and leave the rest of us out of it? Yes, and there are some pretty extreme Jews that could fit right into the mold. The Kookists that want to bomb the Dome of the Rock rank right up there. members.tripod.com/alabasters_archive/gush_underground.html
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Post by fixit on Aug 1, 2014 22:34:17 GMT -5
Being a Republican Party supporter doesn't necessarily make what she is saying wrong in this instance. I share your concern about Christian fundamentalist involvement. Sometimes I wonder if Christian and Muslim fundamentalists should sort it out between themselves and leave the rest of us out of it? Yes, and there are some pretty extreme Jews that could fit right into the mold. The Kookists that want to bomb the Dome of the Rock rank right up there. members.tripod.com/alabasters_archive/gush_underground.htmlIt was a pretty low blow to build a mosque on the site of the Jews temple that their whole religion was based on. It would be like building a synagogue on the Masjid al-Haram in Mecca. How many holy sites does Islam need anyway?
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 1, 2014 23:38:01 GMT -5
It was a pretty low blow to build a mosque on the site of the Jews temple that their whole religion was based on. Interesting that you should recognize that. What a low blow by the Christians to build all those big churches on the sites of Pagan temples -- beginning with Saint Peter's and how many dozens more throughout all of Europe. It's what religious people do, fixit.
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Post by dmmichgood on Aug 2, 2014 0:59:53 GMT -5
It was a pretty low blow to build a mosque on the site of the Jews temple that their whole religion was based on. Interesting that you should recognize that. What a low blow by the Christians to build all those big churches on the sites of Pagan temples -- beginning with Saint Peter's and how many dozens more throughout all of Europe. It's what religious people do, fixit. It was a pretty low blow to build a mosque on the site of the Jews temple that their whole religion was based on. Interesting that you should recognize that. What a low blow by the Christians to build all those big churches on the sites of Pagan temples -- beginning with Saint Peter's and how many dozens more throughout all of Europe. It's what religious people do, fixit. It was a pretty low blow to build a mosque on the site of the Jews temple that their whole religion was based on. Interesting that you should recognize that. What a low blow by the Christians to build all those big churches on the sites of Pagan temples -- beginning with Saint Peter's and how many dozens more throughout all of Europe. It's what religious people do, fixit. My favorite example is San Clemente in Rome with three layers.
That particular one we was able to explore for ourselves.
The first layer was a place of worship of Mithras, then a Christian basilica in around 400 CE and then another Christian basilica on top of that one about 1100 CE.
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 2, 2014 2:11:58 GMT -5
My favorite example is San Clemente in Rome with three layers.
That particular one we was able to explore for ourselves.
The first layer was a place of worship of Mithras, then a Christian basilica in around 400 CE and then another Christian basilica on top of that one about 1100 CE.
[/b] [/quote] In the Ukraine and Russia the Christian churches often have a very provocative top to their steeple -- an Islamic crescent moon with a cross standing atop it.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Aug 2, 2014 3:38:43 GMT -5
When I read about these wars and so on I am reminded of this song, one of my favourites. It may be over the top of some peoples heads. I make no apology for that. www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbKa2gapq_M
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Post by fixit on Aug 2, 2014 4:13:14 GMT -5
Being a Republican Party supporter doesn't necessarily make what she is saying wrong in this instance. I share your concern about Christian fundamentalist involvement. Sometimes I wonder if Christian and Muslim fundamentalists should sort it out between themselves and leave the rest of us out of it? Yes, and there are some pretty extreme Jews that could fit right into the mold. The Kookists that want to bomb the Dome of the Rock rank right up there. members.tripod.com/alabasters_archive/gush_underground.htmlSnow, its what religious people do. The Jewish temple was there first.
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Post by snow on Aug 2, 2014 9:44:52 GMT -5
It was a pretty low blow to build a mosque on the site of the Jews temple that their whole religion was based on. It would be like building a synagogue on the Masjid al-Haram in Mecca. How many holy sites does Islam need anyway? It was also the site where Muhammad left so it was very special to the Muslims too. Does this mean that you condone the destruction of the Dome of the Rock? The whole reason behind it was to get Russia to back the Muslims and the States to back Israel. This was in 1982. It would have started a war that could have been called WWIII. Your whole premise seems to rest on the Jewish people somehow having rights to that land after hundreds of years during which time other people moved in and lived their lives, raised their families, worked the land. It wasn't the Muslims that scattered the Jews, it was the Romans almost 2000 years ago. What is the statute of limitations on owning that land and how is it any different to take the land from those who had moved in and settled and give it back to the Jews? If there is why aren't we giving our land back to the Natives of our country?
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Post by snow on Aug 2, 2014 9:49:09 GMT -5
When I read about these wars and so on I am reminded of this song, one of my favourites. It may be over the top of some peoples heads. I make no apology for that. www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbKa2gapq_MLove it. Always like Buffy. She is right. This is not the way we put an end to war!!
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Post by snow on Aug 2, 2014 9:51:53 GMT -5
Snow, its what religious people do. The Jewish temple was there first. How many churches that are Christian have been placed over Pagan worship sites by the Catholic church. Yes, it is what religious people do. The Romans destroyed the temple. Many years later the Muslims built the Dome of the Rock there because it was not only a sacred site for their religion, but the religion they come from, Judaism. I would think it would seem absolutely right to them to build their, bringing the two together in an already sacred spot. They do take Abraham as their father too you know.
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Post by fixit on Aug 2, 2014 14:36:03 GMT -5
It was a pretty low blow to build a mosque on the site of the Jews temple that their whole religion was based on. It would be like building a synagogue on the Masjid al-Haram in Mecca. How many holy sites does Islam need anyway? It was also the site where Muhammad left so it was very special to the Muslims too. Does this mean that you condone the destruction of the Dome of the Rock? The whole reason behind it was to get Russia to back the Muslims and the States to back Israel. This was in 1982. It would have started a war that could have been called WWIII. Your whole premise seems to rest on the Jewish people somehow having rights to that land after hundreds of years during which time other people moved in and lived their lives, raised their families, worked the land. It wasn't the Muslims that scattered the Jews, it was the Romans almost 2000 years ago. What is the statute of limitations on owning that land and how is it any different to take the land from those who had moved in and settled and give it back to the Jews? If there is why aren't we giving our land back to the Natives of our country? It doesn't mean I condone the destruction of the Dome of the Rock. It means I think its complicated! The Romans conquered the Jews, which enabled the Temple to be destroyed. The Muslims conquered the Jews and Christians, which enabled the Dome of the Rock to be built. Israel had appealed to Jordan to stay out of the war in 1967. Jordan attacked anyway, so the state of Israel conquered the holy sites of Jerusalem. Did they clear the site of the temple? No. They passed a law guaranteeing the protection of Jerusalem's holy sites for all religions.
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