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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 25, 2014 17:44:04 GMT -5
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Post by fixit on Jul 25, 2014 18:15:11 GMT -5
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Post by fixit on Jul 25, 2014 18:20:29 GMT -5
Abraham's inheritance was through Jacob. If Israel controlled from the river of Egypt to the river Euphrates, the inhabitants would have a better life.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 18:22:34 GMT -5
now i'd like to see him make a write up on what muslims are doing wrong and see how long he lives with a death fatwah on his head...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 18:40:46 GMT -5
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 25, 2014 19:33:17 GMT -5
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Post by fixit on Jul 25, 2014 19:48:55 GMT -5
What does the Bible say about rockets and terror tunnels? It seems that the world cares more about human shield casualties in Gaza, than atrocities in Syria and Iraq. It's a rough neighborhood.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 25, 2014 20:21:43 GMT -5
now i'd like to see him make a write up on what muslims are doing wrong and see how long he lives with a death fatwah on his head... Don't you know that already?
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 25, 2014 20:26:54 GMT -5
Abraham's inheritance was through Jacob. If Israel controlled from the river of Egypt to the river Euphrates, the inhabitants would have a better life. And accomplish that without annihilating 10 times their own population to accomplish it?
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 25, 2014 20:29:10 GMT -5
What does the Bible say about rockets and terror tunnels? It seems that the world cares more about human shield casualties in Gaza, than atrocities in Syria and Iraq. It's a rough neighborhood. The Jews were using tunnels long before the Arabs came along. The rockets were just science fiction.
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Post by snow on Jul 25, 2014 22:52:16 GMT -5
I really liked the questions he asked Israel about are you what God intended. The way things are going right now, I would say they are not doing what their God intended.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 25, 2014 23:10:00 GMT -5
I really liked the questions he asked Israel about are you what God intended. The way things are going right now, I would say they are not doing what their God intended. Benjamin Netanyahu's mantra is: "We are not going back into the ovens." A number of rabbis I have talked to say there is no hope for peace in the middle east as long as he is in power. Unfortunately it is people like him that change religious disagreements into political struggles. I found it outrageous what they did in Jerusalem to the Palestinian American teenager who was visiting his Muslim parents in the city. A people whose government behaves like that has no right at all to complain about what others are doing to them.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 25, 2014 23:12:29 GMT -5
Do you care to interpret that in present day political language? in 33 A.D Jesus said in Luke 21:20-28 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies (70 A.D.) then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter therein to.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jul 25, 2014 23:36:54 GMT -5
Jerusalem has been compassed about with armies a number of times, 70AD as Nathan points out but also, and possibly more importantly in 1099 when the First Crusade entered Jerusalem. However: I think that any state founded on some religious principal, including modern day Israel is doomed to failure. I am including the Muslim States as well. States are best governed by secular bodies who have the well being of all in mind. Todays mess in the Middle east can in some ways be attributed to Winston Churchill, mighty statesman that he was, he also had feet of clay and was in the thrall of various Jews and their organisations. If it had not been for his gambling debts and living beyond his means he may not have felt so obliged to help create a Jewish State. We no longer have catholic States other than the very quaint Vatican city, no longer is Britain solely Anglican, why then did we ever allow the state of Israel to be created in Palestine which has then resulted in the most awful mess imaginable with the complicity of so many western states. Go back pre 1948, tell me how much bother there was in the Middle East between Jew and Muslim?
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 25, 2014 23:55:10 GMT -5
Do you care to interpret that in present day political language? Well, so much for the present day political interpretation.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jul 26, 2014 0:16:21 GMT -5
Thanks Bob, that, whatever it was from the chap Blair, via Nathan, has happened a number of times in history already. My view is that Israel will never (other than the current political state) be more than than a spiritual state and Jerusalum will never be more than a spiritual city. By this I mean that in my view I look beyond the temporal and see all this as something personal. Battles to be fought and won within myself. To me, Jew (Israel) equals human nature and all its baseness. I need to rise above that and accept Jesus as my Saviour. Nothing to do whatsoever with some political state in todays world.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 26, 2014 0:38:17 GMT -5
Thanks Bob, that, whatever it was from the chap Blair, via Nathan, has happened a number of times in history already. My view is that Israel will never (other than the current political state) be more than than a spiritual state and Jerusalum will never be more than a spiritual city. By this I mean that in my view I look beyond the temporal and see all this as something personal. Battles to be fought and won within myself. To me, Jew (Israel) equals human nature and all its baseness. I need to rise above that and accept Jesus as my Saviour. Nothing to do whatsoever with some political state in todays world. You say: "this as something personal. Battles to be fought and won within myself. To me, Jew (Israel) equals human nature and all its baseness."I don't understand.
Are you equating the Jews of being "base?"
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jul 26, 2014 1:26:26 GMT -5
Yes.
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Post by fixit on Jul 26, 2014 1:30:14 GMT -5
I found it outrageous what they did in Jerusalem to the Palestinian American teenager who was visiting his Muslim parents in the city. A people whose government behaves like that has no right at all to complain about what others are doing to them. I don't know about what the Israeli government did to an American teenager. Can you give me a link so I can research it?
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 26, 2014 2:24:58 GMT -5
I found it outrageous what they did in Jerusalem to the Palestinian American teenager who was visiting his Muslim parents in the city. A people whose government behaves like that has no right at all to complain about what others are doing to them. I don't know about what the Israeli government did to an American teenager. Can you give me a link so I can research it? Yes. He came along while the police were trying to break up a fight among some teenagers in the street, and they arrested him for being there, beat him up, and held him in jail for over a week. Reason: his presence as a Palestinian was suspicious, no matter that he was an American citizen.
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Post by fixit on Jul 26, 2014 2:32:40 GMT -5
So it wasn't the Israeli government - it was the police?
Looking forward to a link.
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Post by fixit on Jul 26, 2014 2:34:13 GMT -5
Go back pre 1948, tell me how much bother there was in the Middle East between Jew and Muslim? Lots.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jul 26, 2014 2:52:14 GMT -5
Really, tell me more, say cover the period between 1900 and 1947.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2014 2:53:39 GMT -5
So it wasn't the Israeli government - it was the police? Looking forward to a link. Fixit, Your lack of awareness of this story makes me wonder if you are following the situation at all. This story was all over the international news a few days ago. As regards your earlier comments to me (which are barely worthy of a response) you likely aren’t aware that Amnesty International has stated that it does not have evidence at this point that Palestinian civilians have been intentionally used by Hamas or Palestinian armed groups during the current hostilities to “shield” specific locations or military personnel or equipment from Israeli attacks. I expect that you aren’t aware either that under international humanitarian law even if “human shields” are being used Israel’s obligations to protect these civilians would still apply. As regards your rather flippant and equally ignorant comment about Gazza being a ‘rough neighbourhood’, you should be aware that according to the UN the attack on the school is being treated as a potential war crime. I suggest that you keep yourself better informed of what is happening in the region if you hope to have your views taken seriously here. There are plenty of independent sources where one can keep oneself up to date on the situation so there is no excuse for ignorance. I also suggest that you educate yourself on the difference between a war crime and a rough neighbourhood if you are planning on continuing to participate in the debate. Matt10
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Post by fixit on Jul 26, 2014 3:00:52 GMT -5
Fixit, I think you are the only one referring to the Israeli government. I found it outrageous what they did in Jerusalem to the Palestinian American teenager who was visiting his Muslim parents in the city. A people whose government behaves like that has no right at all to complain about what others are doing to them.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2014 3:08:57 GMT -5
I stand corrected on that one. I'll therefore remove that reference from my post to ensure that the key messages aren't lost. Matt10
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Post by fixit on Jul 26, 2014 3:16:50 GMT -5
As regards your earlier comments to me (which are barely worthy of a response) you likely aren’t aware that Amnesty International has stated that it does not have evidence at this point that Palestinian civilians have been intentionally used by Hamas or Palestinian armed groups during the current hostilities to “shield” specific locations or military personnel or equipment from Israeli attacks. Amnesty International might not be up to speed on this. Besides, their bias makes their claims unreliable.
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Post by fixit on Jul 26, 2014 3:22:14 GMT -5
As regards your rather flippant and equally ignorant comment about Gazza being a ‘rough neighbourhood’, you should be aware that according to the UN the attack on the school is being treated as a potential war crime. 'Rough neighborhood' was referring to the area from Egypt to Iraq. There are far greater war crimes being committed as we speak in Syria and Iraq. Firing rockets at civilian population centers in Israel is not very neighborly.
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