|
Post by snow on Apr 13, 2014 20:42:30 GMT -5
Yes Bert, I do think the world is getting better. It is becoming a more tolerant world for the things we should have never been intolerant about. Religions are starting to show more tolerance for each other. Whites a showing more tolerance for non-whites, our younger generation and some of the older generation are becoming more conscious of the planet they live on, more people are protesting injustices that we never used to blink an eye at. More people are thinking for themselves and evaluating the truth and dangers of believing in all the things our ancestors believed in whether they were good for humanity or not. More people are leaving the traditional religions and connecting to their version of God in a more personal way that does away with exclusivity and dogma. Yes it is becoming a better world in my estimation. Have a look at this TED talk by Steven Pinker: www.ted.com/talks/steven_pinker_on_the_myth_of_violenceI agree, Snow. And much of the progress is due to people speaking up and saying "we're not taking this any more." And, so, they've elected representatives, who in turn have appointed justices, who, together, have put into place, for example, laws requiring banks to put customers before profits, and laws requiring local governments and businesses to respect the rights of the individual for self-determination. I see progress. I do too. But I do understand how people who like things to stay the same might feel a bit intimidated by these changes. Change usually brings some chaos with it. But in the end it makes things better.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2014 22:40:17 GMT -5
Quote - "The decline of "truth" is the issue I am discussing here." "Truth" isn't a movement.
Quote - "Young people don't feel the meetings are hip and cool." Thank God. We understand that people chose the music which speaks to them. What does modern music speak to people? Whatever it is, it aint God.
Quote - "Music and sports involves youth in a positive way and helps them learn about the Lord." Can we include boxing and wrestling in that? What about heavy metal and hip hop? All these carnal pursuits, all this self glorifying, all this celebration of human nature, all this cruel language, all this ABSOLUTE IDOLATRY....... What "Lord" are you speaking of?
Quote - "The quietness before meetings, lack of powerful preaching" Some want noise and charisma I guess. You can find it in some churches but TV does a better job of delivering that.(The Apostates and exes hated Paul for being quiet and seemingly powerless - so you are in good company.)
Quote - "the low profile nature of the group," Once the Jews got past the miracles Jesus did, everything else about Him was deadpan. And His secrecy even drove his own brothers and sisters mad.
Quote - "childhood memories of hard chairs and stern looks doesn't appeal to many youth." We don't see any reason to, any right and any precedent to give to youth something different to what adults received in the Gospel. Do you?
Quote - "Outside of certain families, this lowly way won't appeal to many people born and raised in stable homes from other religious perspectives." You hit it on the head, "this lowly way." It NEVER appealed, not even to the burgeoning "Christian" churches of the 2nd and 3rd Centuries.
Quote - "In my rural town, the church parking lots are about as full as ever. yet the meetings are getting smaller and older. In eastern US, the decline is appalling." I went to a Greek funeral this morning. They are putting up a new building - right there in their now overized parking lot. Australian churches are closing down about one every couple of days. Those that ae left are holding on with their music bands, wide screen footy replays, playrooms for the kids, stalls, bingo, charity runs etc.. Some of the same people then have the hide to say we "don't preach Jesus."
|
|
|
Post by faune on Apr 13, 2014 22:57:09 GMT -5
I agree, Snow. And much of the progress is due to people speaking up and saying "we're not taking this any more." And, so, they've elected representatives, who in turn have appointed justices, who, together, have put into place, for example, laws requiring banks to put customers before profits, and laws requiring local governments and businesses to respect the rights of the individual for self-determination. I see progress. I do too. But I do understand how people who like things to stay the same might feel a bit intimidated by these changes. Change usually brings some chaos with it. But in the end it makes things better. Snow & Gene ~ I see progress in our country, too, due to people becoming more aware of injustices within our society through education and trying to effect change in their time. I see better understanding of people from different beliefs and customs especially within recent years under President Obama. I know some people don't like this man and hold him responsible for all sorts of things, but he's our first open-minded President in some time and really desirous of meaningful change. Back when I was growing up in the 60's, there was so much that needed changing within our country and the youth were "the movers and shakers" behind this trend in our society. It seems that we are seeing a repeat of this same thing among the youth of today and even middle aged folks who really want meaningful change for all concerned. This process may be slow, but at least it's moving in the right direction this time around!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2014 23:19:07 GMT -5
Faune, what do you think? Jesus was speaking of the Jews - he said they would lose their nation, their lives and their freedom because they didn't know the "time of their visitation." The Gospel went out to the Gentiles.
But Jesus spoke of a time when the Gentiles would be finished. He spoke of the eventual collapse of Christian churches and people turning their backs on God. He gave a sign - He said "They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled."
That time was 1967 when the Jews took back Jerusalem.
That was also the time of a great falling away in church attendance, attitudes towards authority, divorce rates, normalization of "recreational drugs" etc etc etc..
Given what you said about the liberating effects of the 1960's, do you disbelieve this interpretation?
|
|
|
Post by faune on Apr 13, 2014 23:47:40 GMT -5
Bert ~ I see the 60's as bringing in its share of good things as well as bad things into our culture about 50 years ago. Although the 60's encouraged a decline in morality among its youth due to the new sexual revolution, it also brought many worthwhile changes in civil rights, Medicaid for the poor, and many programs under LBJ to help the needy in our country get a better start through education. However, this was just the beginning of change and it has taken decades since then to see more meaningful changes come into play in our country's history within the last few years.
However, I also feel the Six Day War back in 1967 was a momentous occasion in Jewish history when Jerusalem was regained back into Jewish hands after 2,000 years. No doubt that event in time has set the mood for everything that has taken place since then regarding Israel and their neighbors?
www.sixdaywar.org/content/ReunificationJerusalem.asp
|
|
|
Post by ellie on Apr 15, 2014 8:01:06 GMT -5
This younger generation must be engaged or they will totally lose it. Some of my cousins kids play in a church band. I know some young people who play church sports. These experiences puts a good taste in young people's mouths for the fellowship they grow up in. And they aren't writing about their unhappy church upbringing on some message board. Workers praise young people for standing true yet don't realize how some of them behave behind their backs. Even when young professing people seem fairly normal, hyprocrisy can rear its head. Girls dress differently around older meeting people than when they get together for sleepovers. Some young men cover up tats yet display them when they go on hiking trips. Young people need to be themselves. It is hard on one's nerves to be one person here and another person there. Thinking about the title of the thread I thought I’d write a list of things on offer by workers (featured at bottom).
Then I realised the list mostly highlights the original post. Workers provide rules, but offer very little besides. Basically by offering rules alone workers teach us (inadvertently I hope) how to be excellent Pharisees. We learn how to keep the rules for appearance sake and we learn how to be judgmental but we don’t learn very much love and kindness.
Two simple ideas for things that workers would do well to organise with the youth to help us both bond as a group and learn a little kindness: • Organise volunteering, i.e. enter a walking or cycling team for charity, soup kitchen, door knocking for charity etc. • Find out what the talents are among the young people then use them i.e. many play musical instruments. Arrange a practice session and then go and play at an aged care facility where it might be appreciated.
By contrast growing up in meetings I was offered:
1. Regular fellowship meetings – mandatory attendance 2. Gospel missions – offering surface level teachings 3. Sings 4. Rules pertaining to entertainment e.g. no TV, no ‘worldly’ entertainment 5. Rules pertaining to social order e.g. • events organised by F&W are to superseded RSVP’s to events organised by non F&W – even when it is bad mannered to renege on a previous commitment • Relationships with non F&W of the opposite sex highly frowned upon 6. Rules pertaining to dress
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 8:38:20 GMT -5
This younger generation must be engaged or they will totally lose it. Some of my cousins kids play in a church band. I know some young people who play church sports. These experiences puts a good taste in young people's mouths for the fellowship they grow up in. And they aren't writing about their unhappy church upbringing on some message board. Workers praise young people for standing true yet don't realize how some of them behave behind their backs. Even when young professing people seem fairly normal, hyprocrisy can rear its head. Girls dress differently around older meeting people than when they get together for sleepovers. Some young men cover up tats yet display them when they go on hiking trips. Young people need to be themselves. It is hard on one's nerves to be one person here and another person there. Thinking about the title of the thread I thought I’d write a list of things on offer by workers (featured at bottom).
Then I realised the list mostly highlights the original post. Workers provide rules, but offer very little besides. Basically by offering rules alone workers teach us (inadvertently I hope) how to be excellent Pharisees. We learn how to keep the rules for appearance sake and we learn how to be judgmental but we don’t learn very much love and kindness.
Two simple ideas for things that workers would do well to organise with the youth to help us both bond as a group and learn a little kindness: • Organise volunteering, i.e. enter a walking or cycling team for charity, soup kitchen, door knocking for charity etc. • Find out what the talents are among the young people then use them i.e. many play musical instruments. Arrange a practice session and then go and play at an aged care facility where it might be appreciated.
By contrast growing up in meetings I was offered:
1. Regular fellowship meetings – mandatory attendance 2. Gospel missions – offering surface level teachings 3. Sings 4. Rules pertaining to entertainment e.g. no TV, no ‘worldly’ entertainment 5. Rules pertaining to social order e.g. • events organised by F&W are to superseded RSVP’s to events organised by non F&W – even when it is bad mannered to renege on a previous commitment • No friendship with the poorer classes of society • Relationships with non F&W of the opposite sex highly frowned upon 6. Rules pertaining to dress • No trousers • No jewellery • No tattoos
Excellent post, including the great suggestions. We had a worker recently lamenting someone who quit "because they are missing so much". She really believes it of course. What she has in mind is her own experience of the social relationships and spiritual encouragement of attending meeting, and then figures that her own experience should be the same for everyone else. Of course it isn't. Friends don't experience socially what workers experience, and anyone seeking truth will frequently get frustrated in their search for answers.....getting slogan-like answers at best. If a friend disagrees with anything about the meetings or the preaching, you can be sure that by leaving the meetings, they won't be "missing much" because much of the social component will be gone before they leave. From my view of young people, the informal social friendships among the friends works well for some of them, particularly those who are a bit shy. They know what to expect and feel comfortable in a known environment. For other young people, the meetings and social life are at best a peripheral part of their lives, not bad enough to dump it, not enjoyable enough to really get into it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 8:43:41 GMT -5
Is that all the rules you could come up with Ellie? In the New Testament there are over 1,000 rules, over and above the ones you wrote here.
Maybe more rules than in the Old Testament.
And I am not sure why you would bother with Christianity - after all, Jesus didn't fit your definition of "kindness" because He never gave a cent, penny, farthing, rarzoo, talent, mina, IOU or credit card number to any poor person. And He was pretty joyless - every second word He said was either a new rule or a threat. And there was certainly no musical instruments in sight, ostensibly to go play to old people (who probably wish you would just go away because they want to see whether the "Bold's" Brooke removes her sister from Forrester Creations.)
And if you think that Workers provides "rules alone" then that proves to me you weren't listening to 99.99999% of what they were saying.
|
|
|
Post by ellie on Apr 15, 2014 9:02:08 GMT -5
Is that all the rules you could come up with Ellie? In the New Testament there are over 1,000 rules, over and above the ones you wrote here. Maybe more rules than in the Old Testament. And I am not sure why you would bother with Christianity - after all, Jesus didn't fit your definition of "kindness" because He never gave a cent, penny, farthing, rarzoo, talent, mina, IOU or credit card number to any poor person. And He was pretty joyless - every second word He said was either a new rule or a threat. And there was certainly no musical instruments in sight, ostensibly to go play to old people (who probably wish you would just go away because they want to see whether Brooke removes her sister from Forrester Creations in The Bold And The Beautiful.) And if you think that Workers provides "rules alone" then that proves to me you weren't listening to 99.99999% of what they were saying. I'm sure I could think of plenty more rules but there's little point in extending the list. The problem I have is the emphasis placed on rule keeping. Bert Jesus, gave, food, healing, things fitting to the culture and far more in a natural sense then I ever could. He touched the unclean and untouchable. That's something we could all learn. He remembered his mother on the cross. Bert please don't be insulting I've been one of those young people playing instruments for elderly people (who were there by choice) and it made the day for young and old. Don't take that away from either the young or old. Bert I believe in love and compassion.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 9:12:33 GMT -5
And yet by your very own definition, Jesus was quite joyless. That's how the Jews saw him, too. So did many of those who once walked with Him.
Jesus healed to show who He was - as with Moses, extreme claims demand extreme evidence.
Jesus cared nothing for the ultimate fate of the Jewish people - not even the women and children. And if you believe this "trinity" garbage, then it was Jesus Himself who destroyed Israel and two million of its people.
The Workers keep far fewer rules than what are left in the New Testament to respect. Your writing suggests to me that you don't spend a lot of time studying the nature of the Apostolic Church.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 9:17:24 GMT -5
And yet by your very own definition, Jesus was quite joyless. That's how the Jews saw him, too. So did many of those who once walked with Him. Jesus healed to show who He was - as with Moses, extreme claims demand extreme evidence. Jesus cared nothing for the ultimate fate of the Jewish people - not even the women and children. And if you believe this "trinity" garbage, then it was Jesus Himself who destroyed Israel and two million of its people. The Workers keep far fewer rules than what are left in the New Testament to respect. Your writing suggests to me that you don't spend a lot of time studying the nature of the Apostolic Church.Her writing suggests to me that she understands Jesus particularly well.
|
|
|
Post by ellie on Apr 15, 2014 9:21:55 GMT -5
And yet by your very own definition, Jesus was quite joyless. That's how the Jews saw him, too. So did many of those who once walked with Him. Jesus healed to show who He was - as with Moses, extreme claims demand extreme evidence. Jesus cared nothing for the ultimate fate of the Jewish people - not even the women and children. And if you believe this "trinity" garbage, then it was Jesus Himself who destroyed Israel and two million of its people. The Workers keep far fewer rules than what are left in the New Testament to respect. Your writing suggests to me that you don't spend a lot of time studying the nature of the Apostolic Church. By what definition was of mine was Jesus joyless? By the way regarding the Jews - tell me this was not said without care for the fate of the Jewish people "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 9:22:29 GMT -5
The secularized religious format is as follows:
Delegitimize "SaintPaul" (and by extension, Peter, Jude and John) Judge Jesus what He DID - ignore what Jesus SAID.
As I mentioned last week, Rev 2&3 give a serious insight not only into the churches ca 100 AD but Jesus Himself (and He aint no singing dancing soup kitchen kind of guy.)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 9:24:21 GMT -5
Quote - "By what definition was of mine was Jesus joyless?"
Same definition as you used to describe us.
Quote - "By the way regarding the Jews - tell me this was not said without care for the fate of the Jewish people "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!"
What else did Jesus say about them?
|
|
|
Post by faune on Apr 15, 2014 10:25:55 GMT -5
Thinking about the title of the thread I thought I’d write a list of things on offer by workers (featured at bottom).
Then I realised the list mostly highlights the original post. Workers provide rules, but offer very little besides. Basically by offering rules alone workers teach us (inadvertently I hope) how to be excellent Pharisees. We learn how to keep the rules for appearance sake and we learn how to be judgmental but we don’t learn very much love and kindness.
Two simple ideas for things that workers would do well to organise with the youth to help us both bond as a group and learn a little kindness: • Organise volunteering, i.e. enter a walking or cycling team for charity, soup kitchen, door knocking for charity etc. • Find out what the talents are among the young people then use them i.e. many play musical instruments. Arrange a practice session and then go and play at an aged care facility where it might be appreciated.
By contrast growing up in meetings I was offered:
1. Regular fellowship meetings – mandatory attendance 2. Gospel missions – offering surface level teachings 3. Sings 4. Rules pertaining to entertainment e.g. no TV, no ‘worldly’ entertainment 5. Rules pertaining to social order e.g. • events organised by F&W are to superseded RSVP’s to events organised by non F&W – even when it is bad mannered to renege on a previous commitment • No friendship with the poorer classes of society • Relationships with non F&W of the opposite sex highly frowned upon 6. Rules pertaining to dress • No trousers • No jewellery • No tattoos
Excellent post, including the great suggestions.We had a worker recently lamenting someone who quit "because they are missing so much". She really believes it of course. What she has in mind is her own experience of the social relationships and spiritual encouragement of attending meeting, and then figures that her own experience should be the same for everyone else. Of course it isn't. Friends don't experience socially what workers experience, and anyone seeking truth will frequently get frustrated in their search for answers.....getting slogan-like answers at best. If a friend disagrees with anything about the meetings or the preaching, you can be sure that by leaving the meetings, they won't be "missing much" because much of the social component will be gone before they leave. From my view of young people, the informal social friendships among the friends works well for some of them, particularly those who are a bit shy. They know what to expect and feel comfortable in a known environment. For other young people, the meetings and social life are at best a peripheral part of their lives, not bad enough to dump it, not enjoyable enough to really get into it.
Ellie ~ From your excellent post, I picked up on "Rules, rules, and more rules" as being what could be expected from the workers with no meaningful change in their attitudes. Although a few surface changes in devices allowed within the home and general appearance of the youth may be realized today, I really doubt the workers have departed much from their controlling behaviors, especially when the friends display in their testimonies less exclusive views than those accepted within the group. From my own past experience, this was a big "No-No" and would get you shunned and confronted by the friends and workers for thinking differently from the group mentality. I believe somebody named Brandon got a similar rebuke or excommunication from meetings within one of Walker's postings recently? I know this, because I personally was frowned upon due to not agreeing with this same group mentality. I felt it was unjust when I shared my own views on things and was told they didn't line up with the worker's accepted platform or gospel message. No doubt this had a lot to do with my own "shunning within the fellowship" and the silence I received afterwards, when I left meetings one Easter Sunday back in April 1995? After 30 years of exposure, I felt I had enough for a life time and just departed without notice to anybody within the meeting. Since nobody even called afterward to ask why I wasn't attending meetings, I assumed they didn't care anyway by the obvious silence from both F&W's. In fact, every Easter Sunday when I attend church service, I think of my final exit from the 2x2's and rejoice in my new found freedom of belief and worship.
Clearday ~ I agree with your summary on the young people within the 2x2's. Namely, the youth seem to fall within two groups ~ the shy ones of the first group who conform due to the comfort it affords them in their social awkwardness and the second group who consider the meetings a peripheral part of their lives ~ not bad enough to dump, but not really enjoyable enough to embrace wholeheartedly. In the past, I'm sure I would have fallen within the second group, since I was a teenager from a non-professing home and had enjoyed some normal freedoms before joining the 2x2's. If something the workers insisted upon, such as dress and conduct around the friends, I complied while within their presence, but lived my life according to my own preferences outside their circle of influence. I have to admit, I was really happy to have come from a non-professing home when I heard the stories of B&R's who were raised within this strict structure of the F&W's. No doubt, if I was born and raised within the 2x2's, I would have rebelled and left a whole lot sooner than I did? In fact, during my college days, I did fall away from meetings pretty much and didn't start back again until in my early 20's, when my finance (now husband) during my last year of college decided to profess after wanting to be introduced to the F&W's and meetings. That totally took me by surprise and even broke us up for about a year, but we eventually got back together again and married and I returned to the fold. The remaining years are part of my history within the 2x2's.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Apr 15, 2014 12:48:44 GMT -5
And yet by your very own definition, Jesus was quite joyless. That's how the Jews saw him, too. So did many of those who once walked with Him. Jesus healed to show who He was - as with Moses, extreme claims demand extreme evidence. Jesus cared nothing for the ultimate fate of the Jewish people - not even the women and children. And if you believe this "trinity" garbage, then it was Jesus Himself who destroyed Israel and two million of its people. The Workers keep far fewer rules than what are left in the New Testament to respect. Your writing suggests to me that you don't spend a lot of time studying the nature of the Apostolic Church. Bert, why follow an uncharitable, joyless leader? I can't understand why you wouldn't embrace the suggestions that ellie has put forth as suggestions of things the friends could do? There is so much the young could be doing that would give them hands on experience at love and compassion for those who have less or are in situations where they can't get out to enjoy some music etc. I think she is the hope for the friends keeping their young in the meetings. If there were more like her you would see growth. Learning about the bible and Jesus and God etc. is only one part of the big picture. Walking and talking what you learn is the other part. That's the part she is referring to. Don't leave that out of the picture or you're missing the whole point of knowing God.
|
|
|
Post by xna on Apr 15, 2014 13:13:44 GMT -5
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
------------------------
|
|
|
Post by lazarus66 on Apr 15, 2014 13:26:41 GMT -5
When you have nothing, you have nothing to offer................ No one has nothing. You will always have yourself and that is the most precious thing we have to offer others, ourselves. Snow, I was referring to the post. What do the workers have to offer the young people? They only have fear and rules.......
|
|
|
Post by snow on Apr 15, 2014 15:33:33 GMT -5
No one has nothing. You will always have yourself and that is the most precious thing we have to offer others, ourselves. Snow, I was referring to the post. What do the workers have to offer the young people? They only have fear and rules....... Oh I see. Yes, that is what is seems to have come to. I think they had more to offer at one time, but from what I have heard here, those days are long gone.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 16:17:02 GMT -5
I see better understanding of people from different beliefs and customs especially within recent years under President Obama. I know some people don't like this man and hold him responsible for all sorts of things, but he's our first open-minded President in some time and really desirous of meaningful change *** Come on, Faune, you are better than that. Even the media is whining about how polarized and divided we have become. This regime has divided rich and poor, black and white, rural and urban, christian and muslim, miners and environmentalists, etc.. And with help from Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi. I don't hold him responsible for things because I don't depend on the clowns in Washington DC. I want them to leave me alone and stay out of our affairs. I don't need their freebies. I want them to protect me when this country is attacked but otherwise I want them to be out of sight. I don't need their war on fatty foods, war on coal and oil, and war on big business. I don't fear big business but I fear big government. When you destroy our business community, you will divide the electorate. Our business community is suffering thanks to regulations, taxation, rising labor costs with declining work ethic, and redistribution. We brag about creating 150, 000 jobs monthly when we created ONE MILLION PLUS 100K jobs in 1983. Don't get me started. We have become a divided nation thanks to the Left.
|
|
|
Post by faune on Apr 15, 2014 16:19:22 GMT -5
And yet by your very own definition, Jesus was quite joyless. That's how the Jews saw him, too. So did many of those who once walked with Him. Jesus healed to show who He was - as with Moses, extreme claims demand extreme evidence. Jesus cared nothing for the ultimate fate of the Jewish people - not even the women and children. And if you believe this "trinity" garbage, then it was Jesus Himself who destroyed Israel and two million of its people. The Workers keep far fewer rules than what are left in the New Testament to respect. Your writing suggests to me that you don't spend a lot of time studying the nature of the Apostolic Church. Bert, why follow an uncharitable, joyless leader? I can't understand why you wouldn't embrace the suggestions that ellie has put forth as suggestions of things the friends could do? There is so much the young could be doing that would give them hands on experience at love and compassion for those who have less or are in situations where they can't get out to enjoy some music etc. I think she is the hope for the friends keeping their young in the meetings. If there were more like her you would see growth. Learning about the bible and Jesus and God etc. is only one part of the big picture. Walking and talking what you learn is the other part. That's the part she is referring to. Don't leave that out of the picture or you're missing the whole point of knowing God. Snow ~ I loved your response ~ especially coming from one professing to be agnostic, but seeing the beauty of a Christian example lived out in a life! Perhaps workers are only picking up on the traditions of the Pharisees and neglecting the "weightier parts of the law ~ like justice, mercy, and faithfulness," which Jesus encouraged them to do over all their ritualistic practices to gain God's acceptance? Also, they were binding heavy burdens on others backs, which they wouldn't touch themselves, in their hypocrisy as religious leaders in Matthew 23. Jesus had little praise for these zealous religious leaders and actually pronounced eight woes upon them for their blatant hypocrisy.
|
|
|
Post by Gene on Apr 15, 2014 16:58:11 GMT -5
...Don't get me started... Too late.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 18:19:57 GMT -5
Quote Re "fear and rules" - "Oh I see. Yes, that is what is seems to have come to. I think they had more to offer at one time, but from what I have heard here, those days are long gone."
But I thought the old days were about black stockings and the like? Can someone elaborate on how we have changed?
|
|
|
Post by snow on Apr 15, 2014 19:46:05 GMT -5
Quote Re "fear and rules" - "Oh I see. Yes, that is what is seems to have come to. I think they had more to offer at one time, but from what I have heard here, those days are long gone."But I thought the old days were about black stockings and the like? Can someone elaborate on how we have changed? Those things don't change, not for the 2x2's. There will always be a lag in how you dress in comparison to the rest of the world. As Wally so aptly worded it to paraphrase, look at how the world dresses and dress different. However, there were a few workers in my time that I actually respected and thought had something to offer. From what I'm hearing here, and that's all I have to go by, not many respect the workers the higher up the hierarchy they get. That's not how I remember the workers. However, I was young, so they could have been just as corrupt and I was just not mature enough to notice that. You could be right, nothing has ever changed. It's always been this way.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 19:49:36 GMT -5
re dress differently. One worker said to not be too fashionable, not to be too unfashionable. Being unfashionable, ie Amish, is in itself a form of attention seeking. All this is covered in the Epistles.
nb I liked something on Lilwolfmisty's Facebook "no enemy in front of you means you are going the wrong way."
|
|
|
Post by lazarus66 on Apr 15, 2014 19:56:17 GMT -5
Bert, you can make a catalog of what should be worn and what shouldn't.
Now, what about who you associate with. Got a list for that?
You can also tackle the ones about the rules, hair, how fancy a house to live in, how fancy a car to drive and all those other things. You may want to check on the internet places they need to go to and which ones to avoid, like this one and TTT.
|
|
|
Post by xna on Apr 15, 2014 19:57:49 GMT -5
re dress differently. One worker said to not be too fashionable, not to be too unfashionable. Being unfashionable, ie Amish, is in itself a form of attention seeking. All this is covered in the Epistles. nb I liked something on Lilwolfmisty's Facebook "no enemy in front of you means you are going the wrong way." Glad to see this position. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 20:04:59 GMT -5
Bert, you can make a catalog of what should be worn and what shouldn't. Now, what about who you associate with. Got a list for that? You can also tackle the ones about the rules, hair, how fancy a house to live in, how fancy a car to drive and all those other things. You may want to check on the internet places they need to go to and which ones to avoid, like this one and TTT. That's there in the bible. Being moderate Not being fashionable Not over-dressing Having a gravity of disposition all that b.o.r.i.n.g. stuff. As for "fancy cars" that's a bit difficult. "Fancy" means better than the norm - your average family sedan is about ten years behind a Mercedes in defects per km and features. So "fancy" is hard to define. Ditto for houses.
|
|