Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2014 23:18:41 GMT -5
because true Christians donot kill true Christians period, killing goes against the very Spirit of Jesus Christ Ref: "Sell your coat and buy a sword" I wonder what they used the sword for, if not for it's normal use as a lethal weapon? take it up with Jesus when you see Him next
|
|
|
Post by rational on Oct 27, 2014 23:28:49 GMT -5
Ref: "Sell your coat and buy a sword" I wonder what they used the sword for, if not for it's normal use as a lethal weapon? take it up with Jesus when you see Him next Also ask about the parable in Luke that ends with the line: But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me. Sort of indicating forced conversion. But I am sure in the 2000 years that followed people have a multitude of ways to spin the meaning.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2014 23:40:16 GMT -5
true christians do not kill anyone anytime. do you believe that Jesus was the head of His followers? what did He say about killing? thou shalt not? there is no such thing as a christian country, if there were Christ would be the head of that country there are countries which are losely based on the values of Christ but that don't make them christian if i were as you asked and i killed i wouldn't be christian, i might say i am but in reality i wouldn't be The actual word used was 'murder', not 'kill'. So...... just who is in the army that Jesus is leading in Revelation? You think that they aren't out to kill? Or, if it is only Jesus who is doing the killing referred to, what is the purpose of the army that he commands? are we to question what Jesus said or does or just plainly do as He has asked? he's a good verse to ponder, Luke 3:14 And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages. how can that happen if soldiers kill
|
|
|
Post by Scott Ross on Oct 28, 2014 13:07:21 GMT -5
The actual word used was 'murder', not 'kill'. So...... just who is in the army that Jesus is leading in Revelation? You think that they aren't out to kill? Or, if it is only Jesus who is doing the killing referred to, what is the purpose of the army that he commands? are we to question what Jesus said or does or just plainly do as He has asked? he's a good verse to ponder, Luke 3:14 And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages. how can that happen if soldiers kill Well...... I guess first of all you should realize that it wasn't Jesus who was speaking, and then perhaps you might determine which translation of those verses you are going to use: From the NIV: 10 “What should we do then?” the crowd asked.
11 John answered, “Anyone who has two shirts should share with the one who has none, and anyone who has food should do the same.”
12 Even tax collectors came to be baptized. “Teacher,” they asked, “what should we do?”
13 “Don’t collect any more than you are required to,” he told them.
14 Then some soldiers asked him, “And what should we do?”
He replied, “Don’t extort money and don’t accuse people falsely—be content with your pay.”It really appears that John was telling the people to do their jobs as required, and not to be overzealous in how they treated people. Likewise, he was pointing out that they should be willing to help their 'neighbor'.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2014 3:43:31 GMT -5
are we to question what Jesus said or does or just plainly do as He has asked? he's a good verse to ponder, Luke 3:14 And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages. how can that happen if soldiers kill Well...... I guess first of all you should realize that it wasn't Jesus who was speaking, and then perhaps you might determine which translation of those verses you are going to use: From the NIV: 10 “What should we do then?” the crowd asked.
11 John answered, “Anyone who has two shirts should share with the one who has none, and anyone who has food should do the same.”
12 Even tax collectors came to be baptized. “Teacher,” they asked, “what should we do?”
13 “Don’t collect any more than you are required to,” he told them.
14 Then some soldiers asked him, “And what should we do?”
He replied, “Don’t extort money and don’t accuse people falsely—be content with your pay.”It really appears that John was telling the people to do their jobs as required, and not to be overzealous in how they treated people. Likewise, he was pointing out that they should be willing to help their 'neighbor'. yes you are right i suppose it does but tell me please do you think that the work John spoke to be different than what Jesus spoke? and tell me please how do you know that was not what John actually meant [“Do violence to no man"]? Luke 3:14 21st Century King James Version (KJ21) 14 And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, “And what shall we do?” And he said unto them, “Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.”
|
|
|
Post by Scott Ross on Oct 29, 2014 13:22:44 GMT -5
Well...... I guess first of all you should realize that it wasn't Jesus who was speaking, and then perhaps you might determine which translation of those verses you are going to use: From the NIV: 10 “What should we do then?” the crowd asked.
11 John answered, “Anyone who has two shirts should share with the one who has none, and anyone who has food should do the same.”
12 Even tax collectors came to be baptized. “Teacher,” they asked, “what should we do?”
13 “Don’t collect any more than you are required to,” he told them.
14 Then some soldiers asked him, “And what should we do?”
He replied, “Don’t extort money and don’t accuse people falsely—be content with your pay.”It really appears that John was telling the people to do their jobs as required, and not to be overzealous in how they treated people. Likewise, he was pointing out that they should be willing to help their 'neighbor'. yes you are right i suppose it does but tell me please do you think that the work John spoke to be different than what Jesus spoke? and tell me please how do you know that was not what John actually meant [“Do violence to no man"]? Luke 3:14 21st Century King James Version (KJ21) 14 And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, “And what shall we do?” And he said unto them, “Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.” This is one of those questions that is good to research. I do this fairly often, and is one of those things that I find to be good about the TMB. It gets me to do research into what passages in the bible actually mean, and how and why various translations are different. As originally written, and in context, the word that is translated into 'violence', actually refers to intimidation and coercion. Here is a good reference with various types of meanings to the original written words used, along with various commentaries: biblehub.com/luke/3-14.htmI often get caught up in researching various things brought up here in discussions, to the point that I end up reading much more of scripture than I may normally do. Plus, I often don't even comment on what I am researching, as I end up off on a tangent and forget why it was I was originally doing my reading...... LOL!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2014 22:32:24 GMT -5
The actual word used was 'murder', not 'kill'. So...... just who is in the army that Jesus is leading in Revelation? You think that they aren't out to kill? Or, if it is only Jesus who is doing the killing referred to, what is the purpose of the army that he commands? correct, i talked to someone who knows hebrew and he says the more accurate description of thou shalt not kill is "thou shalt not lay in wait to do harm" which lends itself towards murder rather than just killing... some say the army will be christians some say it will be the angels... good question i have no answer for... The Army cannot be of any flesh because no flesh can be in heaven
|
|
|
Post by rational on Oct 31, 2014 23:02:03 GMT -5
correct, i talked to someone who knows hebrew and he says the more accurate description of thou shalt not kill is "thou shalt not lay in wait to do harm" which lends itself towards murder rather than just killing... some say the army will be christians some say it will be the angels... good question i have no answer for... The Army cannot be of any flesh because no flesh can be in heaven Isn't it recorded in the bible that some were taken up into heaven bodily?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2014 1:08:10 GMT -5
The Army cannot be of any flesh because no flesh can be in heaven Isn't it recorded in the bible that some were taken up into heaven bodily? By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Nov 1, 2014 15:27:19 GMT -5
Isn't it recorded in the bible that some were taken up into heaven bodily? By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. So what does that mean exactly, to be translated by God?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2014 15:43:25 GMT -5
By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. So what does that mean exactly, to be translated by God? as far as we can tell it means changed into a spiritual body from an earthly body...
|
|
|
Post by snow on Nov 1, 2014 15:50:17 GMT -5
So what does that mean exactly, to be translated by God? as far as we can tell it means changed into a spiritual body from an earthly body... Oh, thanks Wally
|
|
|
Post by rational on Nov 1, 2014 22:08:28 GMT -5
as far as we can tell it means changed into a spiritual body from an earthly body... Oh, thanks Wally Without translation: And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.Didn't Jesus pop up into heaven bodily?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2014 23:09:45 GMT -5
Without translation: And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.Didn't Jesus pop up into heaven bodily? there maybe a reason for that...elijah might be one of the two witnesses in revelation... i think it was jesus's spiritual body that passed into heaven, how many human bodies could walk around with a spear wound in their side and holes in their wrists and feet?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2014 23:34:39 GMT -5
Without translation: And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.Didn't Jesus pop up into heaven bodily? there maybe a reason for that...elijah might be one of the two witnesses in revelation... i think it was jesus's spiritual body that passed into heaven, how many human bodies could walk around with a spear wound in their side and holes in their wrists and feet? let alone how many can walk in the clouds in their human bodies?
|
|
|
Post by rational on Nov 2, 2014 10:25:51 GMT -5
Without translation: And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.Didn't Jesus pop up into heaven bodily? there maybe a reason for that...elijah might be one of the two witnesses in revelation... i think it was jesus's spiritual body that passed into heaven, how many human bodies could walk around with a spear wound in their side and holes in their wrists and feet? In the bible Jesus invited people to explore his wounds. But you do raise a good point. The short answer it 'none'.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Nov 2, 2014 12:46:50 GMT -5
Without translation: And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.Didn't Jesus pop up into heaven bodily? who knows. I haven't even determined he is a historical figure never mind what state his body was in when he supposedly ascended. It's all rather vague imo. Maybe because no one really knows?
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Nov 2, 2014 14:19:01 GMT -5
Without translation: And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.Didn't Jesus pop up into heaven bodily? there maybe a reason for that...elijah might be one of the two witnesses in revelation... i think it was jesus's spiritual body that passed into heaven, how many human bodies could walk around with a spear wound in their side and holes in their wrists and feet? Really? I thought that was the way that Jesus showed Thomas to prove he had indeed been crucified
King James Bible
John 20: 27
"Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing."Actually, of course, you state an example of why I don't believe in the whole Christianity thing! - how many human bodies could walk around with a spear wound in their side?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2014 16:27:10 GMT -5
there maybe a reason for that...elijah might be one of the two witnesses in revelation... i think it was jesus's spiritual body that passed into heaven, how many human bodies could walk around with a spear wound in their side and holes in their wrists and feet? Really? I thought that was the way that Jesus showed Thomas to prove he had indeed been crucified
King James Bible
John 20: 27
"Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing."Actually, of course, you state an example of why I don't believe in the whole Christianity thing! - how many human bodies could walk around with a spear wound in their side?
its been brought to my attention that it was his glorified body that ascended to heaven, you remember the part in the garden where he tells mary not to touch him? that was his glorified body...
|
|
|
Post by StAnne on Nov 2, 2014 16:48:47 GMT -5
Really? I thought that was the way that Jesus showed Thomas to prove he had indeed been crucified
King James Bible
John 20: 27
"Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing."Actually, of course, you state an example of why I don't believe in the whole Christianity thing! - how many human bodies could walk around with a spear wound in their side?
its been brought to my attention that it was his glorified body that ascended to heaven, you remember the part in the garden where he tells mary not to touch him? that was his glorified body... That's right. Even though Christ's glorified body still bears the marks of his wounds, and He appears even in heaven as the Lamb who was slain ... Revelation 5
6Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. ...
“Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and praise!”
13Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying:
“To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!”
14The four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped.
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Nov 2, 2014 17:52:35 GMT -5
Really? I thought that was the way that Jesus showed Thomas to prove he had indeed been crucified
King James Bible
John 20: 27
"Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing."Actually, of course, you state an example of why I don't believe in the whole Christianity thing! - how many human bodies could walk around with a spear wound in their side?
its been brought to my attention that it was his glorified body that ascended to heaven, you remember the part in the garden where he tells mary not to touch him? that was his glorified body... I Don't think that is why Jesus told "Mary not to touch him."
Why would he say that just because he was in his "glorified" body?
Read these: New International VersionJesus said, " Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'" New Living Translation"Don't cling to me," Jesus said, "for I haven't yet ascended to the Father. But go find my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'" English Standard VersionJesus said to her, “Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’” New American Standard BibleJesus said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'" King James BibleJesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to.... Sounds more as if he is saying "don't try to hold me back from fulfilling my destiny" or something of that.
|
|
|
Post by déjà vu on Nov 4, 2014 12:18:19 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by snow on Nov 4, 2014 19:08:37 GMT -5
I think it's interesting. We have a Muslim persecution thread and a Christian persecution thread. And guess who is doing the persecution. One religion to another religion. If this is how God works in people's lives, I think I'll pass.
|
|
|
Post by faune on Nov 4, 2014 19:54:01 GMT -5
I think it's interesting. We have a Muslim persecution thread and a Christian persecution thread. And guess who is doing the persecution. One religion to another religion. If this is how God works in people's lives, I think I'll pass. Snow ~ Maybe having a difference of opinion is considered persecution here? For some reason, people always feel persecuted by those they don't agree with, regardless who they may be and what their beliefs? JMT
|
|
|
Post by snow on Nov 4, 2014 21:14:59 GMT -5
I think it's interesting. We have a Muslim persecution thread and a Christian persecution thread. And guess who is doing the persecution. One religion to another religion. If this is how God works in people's lives, I think I'll pass. Snow ~ Maybe having a difference of opinion is considered persecution here? For some reason, people always feel persecuted by those they don't agree with, regardless who they may be and what their beliefs? JMT
That can be part of it. However, there is some pretty brutal stuff going on right now between the Muslims and the Christians in the Middle East. Two religions of peace supposedly and look at them. I do not see a belief in God as an advantage for our world. It seems to be the biggest danger out there.
|
|
|
Post by faune on Nov 5, 2014 15:39:25 GMT -5
Snow ~ Maybe having a difference of opinion is considered persecution here? For some reason, people always feel persecuted by those they don't agree with, regardless who they may be and what their beliefs? JMT
That can be part of it. However, there is some pretty brutal stuff going on right now between the Muslims and the Christians in the Middle East. Two religions of peace supposedly and look at them. I do not see a belief in God as an advantage for our world. It seems to be the biggest danger out there. Snow ~ Well, it's not the first time we've seen religious wars. The same thing happened back during the nine Crusades under the different Popes, which also involved warfare with the Muslims.
www.lordsandladies.org/the-crusades.htm
|
|
|
Post by snow on Nov 5, 2014 16:33:04 GMT -5
That can be part of it. However, there is some pretty brutal stuff going on right now between the Muslims and the Christians in the Middle East. Two religions of peace supposedly and look at them. I do not see a belief in God as an advantage for our world. It seems to be the biggest danger out there. Snow ~ Well, it's not the first time we've seen religious wars. The same thing happened back during the nine Crusades under the different Popes, which also involved warfare with the Muslims.
www.lordsandladies.org/the-crusades.htm
No it's not the first and it won't be the last as long as there are religions that believe that only they worship the 'right' god.
|
|
|
Post by déjà vu on Nov 10, 2014 21:15:41 GMT -5
|
|