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Post by fixit on Apr 3, 2014 20:21:46 GMT -5
I don't think it is immaterial who these people are. That is a non caring attitude. If they are that messed up they need to know. "diligent at digging up evil in the world " who does that that? Who did you have in mind? It could possibly even happen here on TMB. I'll let you know when I see it Jesse.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Apr 3, 2014 20:22:16 GMT -5
Why are you moving the goal posts? If you don't want to say who you had in mind when you said "Its interesting that people can be so diligent at digging up evil in the world to criticise, yet resent any criticism of those who are supposed to be "the light of the world"." just say so.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Apr 3, 2014 20:24:15 GMT -5
I don't think it is immaterial who these people are. That is a non caring attitude. If they are that messed up they need to know. "diligent at digging up evil in the world " who does that that? Who did you have in mind? It could possibly even happen here on TMB. I'll let you know when I see it Jesse. Do that, if I'm away just send it by PM. I'd like to see examples.
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Post by fixit on Apr 3, 2014 21:00:55 GMT -5
Bert seems pretty diligent... Quote - " As for young people drifting from the meetings I would say the main reasons would be easy acess of information, stifling traditions and higher, more widespread levels of education, but again that's just a guess"To be honest you would need to put ALL churches in context. I sometimes attend a Greek Orthodox church during some family festivities. These days the church has to do fireworks or some such "entertainment" to keep the kids coming. That never used to be the case. Fast paced and contemporary entertainment is a requirement for a modern church as people in a TV age are bored easily by traditional liturgy. And church is simply irrelevant in a self-centered, rich and prosperous nation. And yes, education. Science has dealt a body blow to faith in Western societies.
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Post by snow on Apr 3, 2014 21:48:53 GMT -5
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Post by ellie on Apr 5, 2014 3:46:38 GMT -5
Bert seems pretty diligent... Quote - " As for young people drifting from the meetings I would say the main reasons would be easy acess of information, stifling traditions and higher, more widespread levels of education, but again that's just a guess"To be honest you would need to put ALL churches in context. I sometimes attend a Greek Orthodox church during some family festivities. These days the church has to do fireworks or some such "entertainment" to keep the kids coming. That never used to be the case. Fast paced and contemporary entertainment is a requirement for a modern church as people in a TV age are bored easily by traditional liturgy.And church is simply irrelevant in a self-centered, rich and prosperous nation. And yes, education. Science has dealt a body blow to faith in Western societies. Entertainment at Church is an interesting concept. We are so accustomed to being entertained that we have come to expect it wherever we go. That said a flashy entertainment Church program is probably of little value at retaining members long term. Anyone who goes to church purely for entertainment purposes will soon realise that there are other more fun and more exciting things to do that will fill that purpose. Nowadays gospel meetings and churches need to accept that they can’t compete in the entertainment world. Their strength and attraction has to be something else. One of the strengths of a church or even gospel meeting should be the ability of the pastors, ministers, workers etc to bring clarity to the congregation’s understanding of to the bible. Show how the bible is relevant and try and explain some of the difficult concepts and principles in it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2014 4:42:30 GMT -5
Ellie, in the beginning the churches generally did not accept the modern forms of entertainment. This included radio and particularly, the first silent movies.
But they HAD to accept it. And now they have no choice but COMPETE with it.
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Post by kencoolidge on Apr 5, 2014 5:10:02 GMT -5
Who these people are is immaterial. Its not about singling out individuals and putting a label on them. Its about attitudes and behaviors, and these attributes could be in all of us. We all need to fixit Jesse. I don't think it is immaterial who these people are. That is a non caring attitude. If they are that messed up they need to know. "diligent at digging up evil in the world " who does that that? Who did you have in mind? Jesse No digging needed . It is available and prominent without any effort. Calling attention to it is what gets people riled up! ken
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Apr 5, 2014 6:07:24 GMT -5
I don't think it is immaterial who these people are. That is a non caring attitude. If they are that messed up they need to know. "diligent at digging up evil in the world " who does that that? Who did you have in mind? Jesse No digging needed . It is available and prominent without any effort. Calling attention to it is what gets people riled up! ken I know no digging is needed, that book review hit me right between the eyes off the front page with no digging at all. So you think it's the "calling attention to it" here that got fixit riled up?
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Post by ellie on Apr 5, 2014 8:08:38 GMT -5
Ellie, in the beginning the churches generally did not accept the modern forms of entertainment. This included radio and particularly, the first silent movies. But they HAD to accept it. And now they have no choice but COMPETE with it. I am not sure if we are talking about the same thing. I was talking about churches themselves providing entertainment. Some basic entertainment may be helpful to get people through the door initially, because that's what people generally are accustomed to it. However, churches need to be working on other strengths (outside of the entertainment program) to attract repeat visitors and retain members. Other strengths such as bible teaching are the things they can do and should be good at. It's these things that are needed to retain members not the entertainment. One reason being if churches are competing in the entertainment industry they are most likely going to lose. People seeking entertainment will move on to bigger and better forms of entertainment.
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Post by snow on Apr 5, 2014 10:39:08 GMT -5
Ellie, in the beginning the churches generally did not accept the modern forms of entertainment. This included radio and particularly, the first silent movies. But they HAD to accept it. And now they have no choice but COMPETE with it. Then I would say that the content of church is not satisfying most people these days. The bible is so outdated and so many things make no sense anymore, how can it hope to hold the interest of searching, intelligent young people?
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Post by kencoolidge on Apr 5, 2014 12:43:44 GMT -5
Ellie, in the beginning the churches generally did not accept the modern forms of entertainment. This included radio and particularly, the first silent movies. But they HAD to accept it. And now they have no choice but COMPETE with it. I am not sure if we are talking about the same thing. I was talking about churches themselves providing entertainment. Some basic entertainment may be helpful to get people through the door initially, because that's what people generally are accustomed to it. However, churches need to be working on other strengths (outside of the entertainment program) to attract repeat visitors and retain members. Other strengths such as bible teaching are the things they can do and should be good at. It's these things that are needed to retain members not the entertainment. One reason being if churches are competing in the entertainment industry they are most likely going to lose. People seeking entertainment will move on to bigger and better forms of entertainment. Bert Does God have to compete with anyone? ken
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Post by kencoolidge on Apr 5, 2014 12:47:42 GMT -5
Ellie, in the beginning the churches generally did not accept the modern forms of entertainment. This included radio and particularly, the first silent movies. But they HAD to accept it. And now they have no choice but COMPETE with it. Then I would say that the content of church is not satisfying most people these days. The bible is so outdated and so many things make no sense anymore, how can it hope to hold the interest of searching, intelligent young people? Snow God can hold the interest and hunger for his word. Churches in some cases as Bert points out try to entice through means other than scripture. Folks get tired of the new entertainment. Sincere and honest folks hunger and thirst for righteuosness. Only the real deal works JMO ken
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Post by snow on Apr 5, 2014 15:29:22 GMT -5
Then I would say that the content of church is not satisfying most people these days. The bible is so outdated and so many things make no sense anymore, how can it hope to hold the interest of searching, intelligent young people? Snow God can hold the interest and hunger for his word. Churches in some cases as Bert points out try to entice through means other than scripture. Folks get tired of the new entertainment. Sincere and honest folks hunger and thirst for righteuosness. Only the real deal works JMO ken I would think the entertainment part of it wouldn't satisfy either. I just don't see anything at all satisfying though when one has to put aside their intellect to believe in the supernatural Christian God. And, as far as I'm concerned, very intelligent people do exactly that. For me, that would be too divisive in nature for me. And for what? To avoid going to a place that doesn't even exist? That's how it is for me anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2014 21:26:28 GMT -5
Ellie, in the beginning the churches generally did not accept the modern forms of entertainment. This included radio and particularly, the first silent movies. But they HAD to accept it. And now they have no choice but COMPETE with it. Then I would say that the content of church is not satisfying most people these days. The bible is so outdated and so many things make no sense anymore, how can it hope to hold the interest of searching, intelligent young people? The bible was "outdated" whilst it was being written. (Read the rebellion against Moses) It's always been "outdated." A Worker once mentioned an old "No Parking" sign, faded and decrepit. People started ignoring it. But still got fined. "That old sign had the power and authority of the Brisbane City Council behind it!" he said. And that's how the bible is. God doesn't mind when people think the bible is faded and decrepit - these are not the people He is searching for.
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Post by snow on Apr 5, 2014 21:49:25 GMT -5
Then I would say that the content of church is not satisfying most people these days. The bible is so outdated and so many things make no sense anymore, how can it hope to hold the interest of searching, intelligent young people? The bible was "outdated" whilst it was being written. (Read the rebellion against Moses) It's always been "outdated." A Worker once mentioned an old "No Parking" sign, faded and decrepit. People started ignoring it. But still got fined. "That old sign had the power and authority of the Brisbane City Council behind it!" he said. And that's how the bible is. God doesn't mind when people think the bible is faded and decrepit - these are not the people He is searching for. God needs to search? Interesting thought. I very much doubt it's true though.
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Post by emy on Apr 5, 2014 22:36:26 GMT -5
I am not sure if we are talking about the same thing. I was talking about churches themselves providing entertainment. Some basic entertainment may be helpful to get people through the door initially, because that's what people generally are accustomed to it. However, churches need to be working on other strengths (outside of the entertainment program) to attract repeat visitors and retain members. Other strengths such as bible teaching are the things they can do and should be good at. It's these things that are needed to retain members not the entertainment. One reason being if churches are competing in the entertainment industry they are most likely going to lose. People seeking entertainment will move on to bigger and better forms of entertainment. I agree that churches probably can't compete n an entertainment world. About Bible teaching.. some of the most important teaching of the Bible is living it!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2014 5:02:15 GMT -5
Quote - "Bert; Does God have to compete with anyone? ken"
Guess so, Ken. He has to compete against television, for instance. When TV came to our country people stopped attending church in droves.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2014 5:02:59 GMT -5
Quote - "God needs to search? Interesting thought. I very much doubt it's true though."
Look up the word "search" in your New Testament.
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Post by fred on Apr 6, 2014 5:45:51 GMT -5
I am not sure if we are talking about the same thing. I was talking about churches themselves providing entertainment. Some basic entertainment may be helpful to get people through the door initially, because that's what people generally are accustomed to it. However, churches need to be working on other strengths (outside of the entertainment program) to attract repeat visitors and retain members. Other strengths such as bible teaching are the things they can do and should be good at. It's these things that are needed to retain members not the entertainment. One reason being if churches are competing in the entertainment industry they are most likely going to lose. People seeking entertainment will move on to bigger and better forms of entertainment. I agree that churches probably can't compete n an entertainment world. About Bible teaching.. some of the most important teaching of the Bible is living it! Emy, what is your vision for a group of people living the Bible?
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Post by kencoolidge on Apr 6, 2014 5:47:32 GMT -5
Quote - "Bert; Does God have to compete with anyone? ken" Guess so, Ken. He has to compete against television, for instance. When TV came to our country people stopped attending church in droves.Bert I understand where you are coming from but God has no equal.Genuine folks are not satisfied with anything less than the real deal. Perhaps more importantly God is not satisfied with anything less than one who surrenders all to Him. JMT ken
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2014 18:27:32 GMT -5
This younger generation likes to be entertained. They want something in their ears while their fingers play some game. It is hard to get their attention. Many kids in professing homes stop going to meetings because they feel the meetings are too boring. Maybe a little technology could be used to reach out to the young brats, eh?
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Post by kencoolidge on Apr 11, 2014 11:57:47 GMT -5
The bible was "outdated" whilst it was being written. (Read the rebellion against Moses) It's always been "outdated." A Worker once mentioned an old "No Parking" sign, faded and decrepit. People started ignoring it. But still got fined. "That old sign had the power and authority of the Brisbane City Council behind it!" he said. And that's how the bible is. God doesn't mind when people think the bible is faded and decrepit - these are not the people He is searching for. God needs to search? Interesting thought. I very much doubt it's true though. Snow Have you ignoredthe following verse? Jhn 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. Just saying ken
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Post by snow on Apr 11, 2014 12:51:51 GMT -5
God needs to search? Interesting thought. I very much doubt it's true though. Snow Have you ignoredthe following verse? Jhn 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. Just saying ken Seems to me Ken that God would already know and need not 'seek'? There sure are a lot of inconsistencies about this guy imo.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2014 13:46:43 GMT -5
you can surprise the father through free will...
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Post by kencoolidge on Apr 11, 2014 14:12:33 GMT -5
you can surprise the father through free will... Snow Using a term from our senior poster Surely you can't put much stock in Matisses neouroscientist and psycholgist whose thoughts change with the weather. Prophets of God have shown a consistency found no where elsr in the world.Jesus is reliable ,trustworthy and desires theos who worship Him in spirit and truth. Those who are all for Jesus enjoy a liberty and joy the world has a hard time understanding but find easy belittling. Jmt ken
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2014 14:46:35 GMT -5
So, presuming you left your little meeting BrownOwl (to the consternation of all who loved you and are faithful) where did you find The Real Truth? nb And remember, most of these people don't like any sort of sexual misconduct - be it CSA, divorce, sex-before-marriage, homosexuality, bestiality, porn, sexual innuendo, promiscuity, incest, single- parenthood and a host of other things which are an indespensible part of the world's "popular culture" and pretty well taken for granted behavior these days. Bert, you are describing people who I have seen attending your church. The only difference is they are not so open about it.
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Post by snow on Apr 11, 2014 15:38:39 GMT -5
you can surprise the father through free will... Snow Using a term from our senior poster Surely you can't put much stock in Matisses neouroscientist and psycholgist whose thoughts change with the weather. Prophets of God have shown a consistency found no where elsr in the world.Jesus is reliable ,trustworthy and desires theos who worship Him in spirit and truth. Those who are all for Jesus enjoy a liberty and joy the world has a hard time understanding but find easy belittling. Jmt ken Well Ken that's the difference between you and me. I do believe that we are learning more about the body and the brain because of neuroscience and psychology. When you study how the brain works and how we reason things out, you understand so much more about how humans work. I don't get any understanding about that from believing in Jesus. I don't get any joy from the fact he was murdered and his supposedly all powerful God father not only didn't stop it from happening, but condoned it. I really cannot see how the things they talk about in the bible can make anyone enlightened or a better person. You need to pick and choose which things you will believe in order to be a compassionate and loving person. It amazes me there aren't more people like some we see here who think homosexuality is a sin, hell is for eternity and only Christians can be saved. I tip my hat to those who can believe in Christianity and somehow rise above such archaic and divisive mindsets.
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