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Post by minhthanh on May 22, 2014 18:51:46 GMT -5
" Minhthanh wrote 3/2014: Returning from Australia in 2014, Uncle Châu confirmed to me and the friends that "I never change my worship, for this is the true way from Uncle Fred time till now..." I've read and reread this phrase! uncle Chau said "I never change my worship, for this is the true way 'from' Uncle Fred time til 'now"! Seems a bit telling to me that uncle Chau is trouble about what has happened to the 2x2 religion between the time uncle Fred opened the gospel up to him until present days where uncle Chau was treated worse then a criminal! BTW, I'm glad the authorities are watching the foreigner workers...I think they need to....and I hope that NO more friends lose their stipends of finances because of what these foreigner require of them! I think Chau was okay with things between Fred's time and now. I remembered the time uncle Chau was chased out, and had to wait a long time to restore his place in the work. Most of friends persuaded him not need to be a 2x2 worker again, it wasted your time!!! "Go out as uncle Hoa, you can go anywhere to help people in their need under the leading of the Spirit of God". His answer was: "Just only in the work, I can speak out, and my voice is valuable..." Though time went by now he is in the work more than two years, I see uncle Châu's words still valueless!!! Uncle Châu had raised many ideas to help the head worker how to restore the unity of the church in VN, he even wanted back to VN to cooperate with uncle Lyle to solve the problems because he understood his native people. But they ignored all. Recently after his return from Australia, at the Cambodia convention in the beginning of this year. There was a member of Lyle's staff despised uncle Châu with very bad words!!! Just because they found out an email of uncle Chau sent to me from Australia mentioning his feeling about the way uncle Lyle working in VN. It just okay with uncle Châu that he has a place among them only. With what I know, I guess maybe in the bottom of uncle Châu's heart, he has the same wish as me. All the Canadian workers back ti their country. If you notice at many conventions uncle Châu often speaks the very good way that uncle Fred brought to VN, and his influence from his first companion. But now in VN, the overseers said "It is not right example to follow!!!". In my opinion, I don't know It is right or wrong!!! Just God knows. But I do know the way uncle Fred had brought to our country and continued with uncle Châu & Hoa was full of love and unity, and likely as Jesus had spoke in Mathew 11. 28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”
Seeing all these things from the beginning we professed... Now they lost the gentleness and humbleness, press on our people many heavy burdens!!!
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Post by snow on May 23, 2014 10:33:10 GMT -5
It's sad to think he feels his only place of value is in the 2x2 work. That's indoctrination at work for sure.
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Post by snow on May 23, 2014 12:26:04 GMT -5
It's sad to think he feels his only place of value is in the 2x2 work. That's indoctrination at work for sure. Uncle Chau came from a Protestant denomination. He wasn't born and raise in the 2x2 family. He knows exactly what he is saying, believing, and teaching about the 2x2 doctrine. I too wasn't born and raise in the 2x2 system either and I agree with Uncle Chau's understanding. I had similar back ground with Uncle Chau so I know what he is saying/believing. He and I talked about our Protestant experiences when I met him in 2007.I feel it is sad that you both don't allow for other churches to be good ways to worship God too. That's what divides humanity and division is not good imo.
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Post by fixit on May 23, 2014 16:28:35 GMT -5
I do know the way uncle Fred had brought to our country and continued with uncle Châu & Hoa was full of love and unity, and likely as Jesus had spoke in Mathew 11. 28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”
Seeing all these things from the beginning we professed... Now they lost the gentleness and humbleness, press on our people many heavy burdens!!! You experienced love and unity of the Spirit from Uncle Fred, Uncle Chau and Uncle Hoa as they devoted themselves to the Kingdom of Heaven. Foreigners have hijacked their work in recent years and introduced devotion to the Kingdom of Workers and Friends.
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 23, 2014 17:54:20 GMT -5
" Minhthanh wrote 3/2014: Returning from Australia in 2014, Uncle Châu confirmed to me and the friends that "I never change my worship, for this is the true way from Uncle Fred time till now..." I've read and reread this phrase! uncle Chau said "I never change my worship, for this is the true way 'from' Uncle Fred time til 'now"! Seems a bit telling to me that uncle Chau is trouble about what has happened to the 2x2 religion between the time uncle Fred opened the gospel up to him until present days where uncle Chau was treated worse then a criminal! BTW, I'm glad the authorities are watching the foreigner workers...I think they need to....and I hope that NO more friends lose their stipends of finances because of what these foreigner require of them! I think Chau was okay with things between Fred's time and now. I think uncle Chau indeed was just fine with Fred's gospel messages and being a convert of him...."up till now" makes me wonder what his opinion is of the 2x2 religion of "now"....certainly he has been shown the worst of the 2x2 religion via workers and overseers.....I feel perhaps Chau is still firm in his faith in Jesus Christ, no change there, and I feel uncle Chau is remaining firm in his desire to stay able to take care of the VN friends, esp. after seeing the expensive and troubling demands by the past overseer.....I think uncle Chau will give his life to make sure that the friends in VN are well comforted even in the face of insensitive and arrogant foreign workers/overseers. This IS uncle Chau's concern.....poor fellow has worked 40 plus years for these people's spiritual needs and I'm sure his pain isn't so much about his own bad treatment but about what has happened to the poor friends in VN......I strongly suspect uncle Chau will not change his profession, for this reason! He loves those friends in VN, they've been his family for many years, he's been seeing to their care, etc......He may well change some wording in his sermons in response to finding out that the 2x2 religion is just a manmade religion as others but that Jesus Christ is the SAviour of all......
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Post by fixit on May 23, 2014 18:16:46 GMT -5
I feel uncle Chau is remaining firm in his desire to stay able to take care of the VN friends, esp. after seeing the expensive and troubling demands by the past overseer.....I think uncle Chau will give his life to make sure that the friends in VN are well comforted even in the face of insensitive and arrogant foreign workers/overseers. This IS uncle Chau's concern.....poor fellow has worked 40 plus years for these people's spiritual needs and I'm sure his pain isn't so much about his own bad treatment but about what has happened to the poor friends in VN...... I think you're right STR. Uncle Hoa and Uncle Chau are coping with the sad situation in different ways. Neither are wrong.
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Post by minhthanh on May 23, 2014 19:38:00 GMT -5
I do know the way uncle Fred had brought to our country and continued with uncle Châu & Hoa was full of love and unity, and likely as Jesus had spoke in Mathew 11. 28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”
Seeing all these things from the beginning we professed... Now they lost the gentleness and humbleness, press on our people many heavy burdens!!! You experienced love and unity of the Spirit from Uncle Fred, Uncle Chau and Uncle Hoa as they devoted themselves to the Kingdom of Heaven. Foreigners have hijacked their work in recent years and introduced devotion to the Kingdom of Workers and Friends. Ecxactly, Fixit. Uncle Châu was being an overseer at the time Darrel came to VN. He (Darrel) came to Ha Noi first of course with much money, besides preaching he was also showing a very wealthy life if following 2x2 system. Attracting many young people come and profess in the beginning. Almost of them quit after a few years. That was the time they said "Fishing in VN was wonderful... fish automatically jump into the net". Not only a lot of people professing but also a lot friends are on queue waiting to their turn to be worker. I like the word hijacked that you used indicating their work in VN. We see the same as you see. I have seen people fishing with the small net in Dalat. They put some thing the fish want to eat into their net to attract them. The same as these Canadian's work, they attract people to profess and friends to go to the work with many things they desire. Then they became a boss with full of power uppon them. Seeing uncle Châu anh uncle Hoa not completely obey their rules... then mess coming !!!
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Post by fixit on May 23, 2014 20:55:19 GMT -5
Uncle Châu was being an overseer at the time Darrel came to VN. He (Darrel) came to Ha Noi first of course with much money, besides preaching he was also showing a very wealthy life if following 2x2 system. Attracting many young people come and profess in the beginning. Almost of them quit after a few years. That was the time they said "Fishing in VN was wonderful... fish automatically jump into the net". Not only a lot of people professing but also a lot friends are on queue waiting to their turn to be worker. I like the word hijacked that you used indicating their work in VN. We see the same as you see. I have seen people fishing with the small net in Dalat. They put some thing the fish want to eat into their net to attract them. The same as these Canadian's work, they attract people to profess and friends to go to the work with many things they desire. Then they became a boss with full of power uppon them. Seeing uncle Châu anh uncle Hoa not completely obey their rules... then mess coming !!! What happened in Vietnam reminds me of something Alred Magowan wrote, of how the gospel work in the early days became corrupted by the overseers...
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Vietnam
May 24, 2014 0:02:36 GMT -5
Post by fixit on May 24, 2014 0:02:36 GMT -5
Was Jesus being TOO unrealistic? Was he making too much promises which he couldn't keep?... Jesus KNEW exactly what he was saying and kept His promised as He mentioned to those who became sowers of the gospel message/seed. I was hardly lack of anything when I was in the work, ALL of my needs were cared for by the friends and my overseer. I gained 100 homes of the friends, and more families than what I gave up when I started in the work. The Son of Man is the sower. The angels do the weeding.
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Vietnam
May 24, 2014 6:37:21 GMT -5
Post by minhthanh on May 24, 2014 6:37:21 GMT -5
My father has followed this thread daily. Many times he overlooked what Nathan's post. He said: "I know this way more than 50 years, testing, hearing and seeing many things, good or bad enough to understand about this religion, so I don't want to read more from a young man with less experience. He couldn't being among 2x2 system, now he (Nate) uses Internet to preach as many preachers in other religions !!!"
Today I received two emails... both of them used to be in 2x2 they expressed their feelings when knowing all the happenings.
This part from my friend, who is also a member in uncle Châu's family. She stopped going to the fellowship with 2x2 because the mess in VN. After visiting uncle Châu in Cambodia, meeting and talking with Mr Lyle in VN, and Mr Dale in USA. She was also the one who discovered and read the Viet Nam thread first, then informed and invited me to post on TMB for friends over the world knowing the truth.
Em thay cach ma ho doi xu voi anh Chau that khong co gi la nhan tu nhu ho tung giang day., ma trai lai day nhung khac khe, doc ac. Em that vong tai sao the ministry ma minh theo bao nam nay lai co cach cu xu nhu vay (I see the way they had treated my brother Chau not mercifully as they have been preaching, but on the contrary, very strictly and wickedly. I am so disappointed why the ministry that I had followed so far which has that behaving.)
Here is from my English teacher, also uncle Châu's younger sister... very short...
Hon? lao va gian doi, doc. ac qua! em gai anh Chau So insolent and deceitful, very wicked! Brother Châu's sister
Not only the friends in VN seeing their fruits, but also uncle Châu's relatives !!! They used to very respect the workers who brought the Gospel to VN, but now they are disapointed!!! I'm sure not because TTT website or INTERNET...
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Post by minhthanh on May 24, 2014 9:42:41 GMT -5
My father went to England for studying on 1965-1966 hearing much about the work at that time. Traveling ten countries and met thousands F&W with full of joy and happiness. Until seeing the work of Canadian workers in Viet Nam with the direction from Mr Dale the 2x2 head, he was very disappointed. Keep silent, waiting and hope that one day they will see what they had done were wrong, but time passing by we can see clearly all the mess had been done on purpose. It is not easy for an old man as my father deciding to leave 2x2 system after 50+ years. He couldn't accept the wrong, the lie, and evil work. Almost my relatives from my father's side and mother's side are Protestants with many pastors. Maybe our relatives will tease my parents because of leaving them, and now having to stop after more than 50 year faithfull with 2x2 system. We don't mind any things people spoke about us, just going on with God.
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Post by fixit on May 24, 2014 14:43:30 GMT -5
My father went to England for studying on 1965-1966 hearing much about the work at that time. Traveling ten countries and met thousands F&W with full of joy and happiness. Until seeing the work of Canadian workers in Viet Nam with the direction from Mr Dale the 2x2 head, he was very disappointed. Keep silent, waiting and hope that one day they will see what they had done were wrong, but time passing by we can see clearly all the mess had been done on purpose. It is not easy for an old man as my father deciding to leave 2x2 system after 50+ years. He couldn't accept the wrong, the lie, and evil work. Almost my relatives from my father's side and mother's side are Protestants with many pastors. Maybe our relatives will tease my parents because of leaving them, and now having to stop after more than 50 year faithfull with 2x2 system. We don't mind any things people spoke about us, just going on with God. Dale Shultz had a dangerous attitude long before he interfered in Vietnam. He placed the leading of man above the leading of God, as we can see in his letter of April 12, 1999. I feel sorry that Friends and Workers in the West failed to arrest this controlling spirit before it caused so much damage in Vietnam.
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Vietnam
May 25, 2014 5:47:47 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on May 25, 2014 5:47:47 GMT -5
Why the insistence on hijacking this thread? Is it because of knowing some posts most likely will not be read elsewhere? Guess so. Along with many others feeling the same way, MY heart goes out to those in Vietnam, let's leave THIS thread for that cause! Let us escape having to wade through individual opinions regarding other's preferred topics! Anyone can start threads very easy, can they not?
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Vietnam
May 25, 2014 21:02:51 GMT -5
Post by minhthanh on May 25, 2014 21:02:51 GMT -5
Yesterday we had a wonderful fellowship with uncle Hoa and friends, including friend abroad coming. The overseers letter to Vietnamese friends that if we did not obey overseer Lyle's command, we would lost the international fellowship. It not right with us, I believe all friends who look at Jesus, follow his example life, all will meet together at His fellowship, not only this life but go through the eternal life. I learnt in Psalm 27 It comforted me. The LORD is my light and my salvation—
whom shall I fear?
The LORD is the stronghold of my life—
of whom shall I be afraid?
2 When the wicked advance against me
to devour me,
it is my enemies and my foes
who will stumble and fall.
……….
13 I remain confident of this:
I will see the goodness of the LORD
in the land of the living.
14 Wait for the LORD;
be strong and take heart
and wait for the LORD.
For many years we were bound with many rules of man, made us always fearful. Just seeing the workers, admiring their sacrifice life, and giving them the highest respect . Then we don’t see their light, their image as Jesus. There has been still a light for me as ever, also my savation. I want to be strong, taking heart and waiting for the Lord. I also have confidence that the goodness of our Lord still upon us as ever.
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Vietnam
May 25, 2014 21:50:01 GMT -5
Post by Scott Ross on May 25, 2014 21:50:01 GMT -5
Let's keep this thread on track.
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Vietnam
May 26, 2014 11:02:48 GMT -5
Post by minhthanh on May 26, 2014 11:02:48 GMT -5
May 18, 2014 5:47:21 GMT 7 NathanB said:
May 18, 2014 3:56:21 GMT 7 fixit said:
Perhaps God is asking Uncle Chau to remain in the system, laying down his life for his friends.
Perhaps God is asking Uncle Hoa to be free of the system, laying down his life for his friends.
~~ I don't believe that God has anything to do with uncle Chau and Hoa going their separate ways. Why would God ask and want both of them to go separate ways when they were together, with same mind, belief and teachings for more than 50 yrs. Uncle Chau and Hoa went their separate ways because of the choices and choosing which they decided due to the VN fiasco started by Darrel T. proving he was the Boss/Ruler.
A letter from uncle Hoa when he was an active 2x2 worker in 4/2010, replying to Hoan Thanh letter at the time uncle Châu was pushed out of the work 2010 by Darrel T. Uncle Hoa had a lot of good advices and wisdom in his letter. Uncle Hoa left the 2x2 ministry and fellowship in 6/2010, after this letter was written. Lyle S. the new overseer reinstated Uncle Chau back in the ministry 7/2010.
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 8:35 AM
To: hoan thanh
I have read your letter carefully. Perhaps I should advise you to keep silent, pray, and wait for the will of God. Brother Chau is a person with his own troubles but chooses not to voice those troubles out loud. But since we are outsiders to his troubles and thus not able to comprehend what he is going through; we should keep out of his business. We must have faith and trust in God, that God is righteous. While Brother Chau is in his time of difficulty, we must place our trust in God and for God to bring Brother Chau's troubles to an end. The law of SOWING & REAPING of God is very strict and clear. Everything has its own timing. Any arguments originate from WHY-BECAUSE always expose its lacking. The fact that only by the love we can have the sympathy is satisfactory in any circumstances. I would like to stop here
Brother Hoa (A.H)
As my father, sometimes I have overlooked some posts of Nathan.
Today, rereading these posts, I was shocked because of his faulty information. He was confused with many things!!! He arranged things by himself!!!
I don’t want people who didn’t know much about Viet Nam, may be confused as Nathan, when reading his posts.
• ~~ I don't believe that God has anything to do with uncle Chau and Hoa going their separate ways. Why would God ask and want both of them to go separate ways when they were together
Of course God didn’t want or ask both of them to go separate ways, but Darrel want to do that work in purpose. He had told to Thịnh (brother of two young workers) that he (Darrel) was never concerned any friends, but only concerned uncle Châu and Hoa’s work!!!
• …with same mind, belief and teachings for more than 50 yrs.
With what I have seen till know, uncle Châu and uncle Hoa still having the same mind in worshiping God. Uncle Chau in 2x2 but has not completely agreed with what they were arranging and doing in VN, uncle Hoa has also disagreed but gone out and continued keeping his vow to sacrifice for the Vietnamese’s poor souls.
After returning from Australia uncle Châu and uncle Hoa met together sometimes by chance. They talked together as friend not enemy. Recently both of them attended a funeral at Gò Công. The dead did not profess, but many members in that big family are our friends. Uncle Châu and Hoa spent that night in one room that family arranged for them. We all felt happy for that occasion.
• A letter from uncle Hoa when he was an active 2x2 worker in 4/2010, replying to Hoan Thanh’s letter at the time uncle Châu was pushed out of the work 2010 by Darrel T. Uncle Hoa had a lot of good advices and wisdom in his letter.
Uncle Hoa never talk much, very short as his letter, but has always given good advice for us till now. All his advice comforted us on the way to follow Jesus, look upon our Lord and continue to be faithful with our Lord. The only One gives us the salvation.
• . Uncle Hoa left the 2x2 ministry and fellowship in 6/2010, after this letter was written. Lyle S. the new overseer reinstated Uncle Chau back in the ministry 7/2010.
Uncle Hoa not left the 2x2 in 6/2010… and Lyle S the new overseer never reinstated Uncle Châu back in the ministry 7/2010. I wonder where or from who you have such wrong information. The real thing is…
+ Uncle Châu was completely chased out of the work in Viet Nam by Darrel the Viet Nam overseer on March 7th 2010 with the support of three visitors: Dale Shultz from America, Simeon Samiento from Indonesia, and Tsutomu Miyata from Japan.
After a very big meeting of workers and elders.
It was a mourning day for Vietnamese friends.
+ Four months later, in a workers’ meeting after speacial meeting, hearing Darrel continue talking not right about uncle Châu, uncle Hoa had made a desire in his heart…
Uncle Hoa sent out his heart letter written on August 26th 2010 at 4:24 PM. You may read his letter in TTT website.
+ Mr Lyle S first came to Viet Nam on Feb 2011, how can he reinstated Uncle Châu back in the ministry 7/2010?
Uncle Châu was restore his work on Sep 29th 2011. It was a long story, I will continue in next post…
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Post by minhthanh on May 26, 2014 12:16:13 GMT -5
After being chased out of the work… Uncle Châu returned to Saigon stayed at our house some days, then went to stay with his niece's family until they all left Viet Nam to America. Uncle Chau spent long time at Mr Đức house, a poor friend, just lost his wife and his son, his health also wasn’t good. Uncle Châu chose to stay with him for encouraging and helping him in both spritual and natural life. Uncle Châu stayed nearly one year, until the police of that region didn’t permit for him to stay. The reason was uncle Chau has his registered residence at our house, so he needed to stay at our house where being easy for the government to control. Then uncle Châu back to our house, while uncle Hoa also staying at our house for treatment. Uncle Hoa’s leg was fractured from an accident. We always remember that wonderful time. We studied bible together each morning, sometimes sang hymns at night. Many friends came and visited both of them. Seeing uncle Hoa, then uncle Châu both returned and stayed with us. Maybe these Canadian overseers felt very worried. They asked uncle Châu to come to stay with Moris and Cường (Tim), easy for them to control, or look after him!!! Uncle Châu felt sad when leaving our home on June 21/ 2011. Staying with them as an interpreter only. This was a very sad time in his life. Trying to completely obey all the overseer’s rules with humility. They temporarily restored his work on November 29/2011. Next time I will mention the reason why just temporarily.
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Vietnam
May 26, 2014 18:35:21 GMT -5
Post by minhthanh on May 26, 2014 18:35:21 GMT -5
Nate... Today I will give a gift to you, you can use it for your posting. Seeing you often post Mr Lyle.S letter on board. In the past I didn't have the original English letter, I had asked my friend to translate for me. Now I have the original English letter that Mr Lyle.S send out to his staff.
Dear Friends;
On February 15, 2012, Colin, Peter, Cuong and I had a visit with Uncle Hoa at our residence in Ho Chi Minh City. Over the last several months, Uncle Hoa has been moving quietly among our friends and at the same time avoiding any contact with teachers. During the special season, he avoided being at any center where classes were being held. This has raised questions in the minds of several of our friends and they have been asking us about him. We felt that it was necessary for us to speak directly with Uncle Hoa so that we can give a suitable answer to those who enquire about his activities. During our visit together, we asked Uncle Hoa several times to tell us clearly what we should tell our friends regarding his relationship with us. He finally told us that he is not in agreement with the way that we are working here. We made no headway in our attempt to visit with him further on that subject and eventually he terminated our discussion abruptly and left.
After careful consideration of our talk together with Uncle Hoa, we wish to make the following points clear:
Uncle Hoa voluntarily left the work in mid 2010 and has made no attempt to be reinstated. Therefore, he is not considered a part of the teacher staff in this country now.
Uncle Hoa has put in many years of service prior to 2010 and it is fitting for us to keep that in mind and respect him for that. We understand that many have fond memories of his fellowship, help and support during those years and it will grieve them, as it grieves us, that he has distanced himself from the teacher staff now. Anything that can be done to encourage him to communicate with and cooperate with the teachers in the areas where he visits will be greatly appreciated.
The door is open for Uncle Hoa to contact us at any time. We are prepared to do all that we can to help him fill a useful place among us if he desires to do so.
Our friends are at liberty to receive Uncle Hoa into their homes for a visit if they feel comfortable with that. We are not going to try to monitor or control that. We know that many will not feel comfortable about him visiting their home as long as he is not in hearty fellowship with the teachers in this country. We understand those feelings too, because the teacher staff is a precious, dedicated group of men and women who deserve our highest respect. The bond between teachers and students is the result of a divine work that has taken place in our hearts and we need to protect that bond from any influence that would bring division among us.
Các ACE thân mến,
Ngày 15/2/2012, anh Colin, Peter, Cường và tôi có một buổi nói chuyện với bác Hoa tại chỗ ở của chúng tôi ở Sài Gòn. Trong những tháng vừa qua, bác Hoa có đi lại một cách thầm lặng giữa vòng CACE, và cùng một lúc thì tránh liên lạc với bất cứ ai trong chúng tôi là TTC. Trong suốt thời gian có buổi nhóm đặc biệt, bác ấy đã tránh mặt ở những nơi sẽ có buổi nhóm. Việc này đã làm cho nhiều ACE thắc mắc, và họ đã hỏi chúng tôi về bác ấy. Chúng tôi cảm thấy thật cần thiết cho chúng tôi để nói chuyện trực tiếp với bác Hoa, để có thể có những câu trả lời phù hợp cho những ai hỏi thăm về những hoạt động của bác ấy. Trong suốt buổi nói chuyện, chúng tôi đã vài lần hỏi bác Hoa cho chúng tôi biết rõ ràng về mối liên hệ của bác ấy với chúng ta là như thế nào để chúng tôi có thể trả lời với ACE. Cuối cùng, bác ấy nói cho chúng tôi biết, bác ấy không đồng ý với cách chúng ta đang làm việc ở đây. Chúng tôi đã không thể nói với bác ấy nhiều hơn về đề tài đó, rốt cuộc bác ấy đã đột ngột chấm dứt cuộc nói chuyện và bỏ đi.
Sau khi xem xét lại cẩn thận cuộc nói chuyện với bác Hoa, chúng tôi muốn làm cho rõ những điểm sau đây:
Bác Hoa tự ý rời bỏ công việc vào giữa năm 2010 và không hề bày tỏ ý muốn quay trở lại. Vì vậy, bây giờ bác ấy không được xem là có phần trong công việc Chúa ở đất nước này.
Bác Hoa đã có nhiều năm trong công việc Chúa cho đến năm 2010 nên là điều đúng để mình nhớ và tôn trọng bác ấy về việc này. Chúng tôi hiểu là nhiều ACE có nhiều kỷ niệm thân ái về mối thông công, sự giúp đỡ và sự hổ trợ của bác ấy trong những năm qua. Điều làm đau lòng CACE đó cũng như chúng ta là bây giờ bác ấy đã tự làm cho mình cách xa với các TTC. Bất cứ điều gì có thể làm được để khuyến khích bác ấy liên lạc và hợp tác với các TTC ở những nơi bác ấy đến thăm thì rất được trân trọng.
Bác Hoa có thể liên lạc với chúng tôi vào bất cứ lúc nào, cánh cửa luôn mở cho bác ấy. Chúng tôi sẵn sàng để làm tất cả những gì mình có thể để giúp đỡ bác ấy có được một chỗ ích lợi nếu bác ấy muốn .
CACE thì tự do để tiếp bác Hoa vào nhà nói chuyện nếu họ cảm thấy thoải mái. Chúng ta không cố gắng để giám sát hay kiểm soát về việc này. Chúng ta biết rằng có nhiều ACE sẽ không cảm thấy thoải mái việc bác Hoa đến thăm nhà họ trong lúc bác ấy vẫn không có sự thông công mật thiết với các TTC ở đất nước này. Chúng tôi cũng hiểu được những cảm giác đó, bởi vì các TTC là một nhóm người nam, nữ rất quý và tận tụy, họ là những người xứng đáng với sự tôn trọng cao nhất của chúng ta. Sự gắn bó mật thiết giữa TTC và ACE là kết quả của công việc Chúa làm trong lòng mình, và chúng ta cần bảo vệ sự gắn bó này khỏi bất cứ sự ảnh hưởng nào đem đến sự chia rẽ trong chúng ta.
I will make clear three points in the Lyle overseer's letter later when I have time. You may use this letter for your post, because this is his original letter.
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Vietnam
May 26, 2014 18:42:10 GMT -5
Post by Greg on May 26, 2014 18:42:10 GMT -5
Are the foreign workers there using the reason for being there as "teacher"?
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Post by minhthanh on May 26, 2014 19:33:46 GMT -5
Are the foreign workers there using the reason for being there as "teacher"? At first, Darrel, Morris,... coming as businessmen. Then some coming as teachers because an Australian friend opened a school in Hanoi. The school is closed now. Some others coming as tourists .The rest coming as students learning Vietnamese. Now the most common reason is tourist. They have permission 3 months' stay. Near the end of that period, they exit to Cambodia or Laos and return to get a new 3 months' stay permission. They can repeat this cycle innumerable time. The word "teachers" in the letter is another word for workers.
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Post by minhthanh on May 27, 2014 4:12:30 GMT -5
Today I want to make clear about Mr Lyle’s letter concerning to uncle Hoa’s ministry in Viet Nam.
We all know that uncle Châu and uncle Hoa had responsibility to look after the Vietnamese flock through decades, with all their love and unity for the souls of friends throughout the country, until the Canadian workers came. That is the reason why uncle Châu had said “All the fields are mine, I feel free to sivit friends”. The same as uncle Hoa because they both have responsibility for the work of God in Viet Nam.
• The overseer started his letter with “Over the last several months, Uncle Hoa has been moving quietly among our friends and at the same time avoiding any contact with teachers.” Uncle Hoa has his own right to go anywhere in our country because he is a Vietnamese. He also has his right to visit friends, because they are his flocks. Uncle Châu & uncle Hoa who spiritually bore and raised almost all of them, and look after them through decades. I consider the Canadians jumped into our country, hijack the sheep!!!
Uncle Hoa had made clear his decision through his letter to overseers, who related with the mess in Viet Nam, and through his heart letter to F&W. He didn’t want to cooperate with them any more, so no reasons for him to meet them…
To me, Mr Lyle started his letter without meaning!!!
• He finally told us that he is not in agreement with the way that we are working here. We made no headway in our attempt to visit with him further on that subject and eventually he terminated our discussion abruptly and left. This is the best way for uncle Hoa to do.
In another letter to staff Mr Lyle mentioned like this… he got quite upset and told us clearly that he does not agree with the way that we are working and that we can tell our people that. He closed the discussion with that and got up and left. I really didn’t know how his staff feeling to read this part of their overseer’s letter. The only one relationship of uncle Hoa with these people was “Together working for the work of God in Viet Nam”. Now they came, destroyed and changed all what our local workers had buit through decades. How could he agree with the way they are working? (I will explain more about this part in another post, because it was very important for the Christians).
• Therefore, he is not considered a part of the teacher staff in this country now.
This is his real purpose in declaring to friends. Many friends can see clearly what he had in his heart. In other letter to the staff Mr Lyle pressed this point. It is important that the people in the homes where classes are held know clearly that Uncle H is not part of the teaching staff.
At Long Thành a couple elder reacted after hearing the letter from workers in their field.
“Could you please tell my expression to Mr Lyle. This is one Mr. Lyle but even ten Mr. Lyle writing like this, we still not accept. Because uncle Hoa and uncle Châu they both my real shepherds. They have raised us, fed us, and even corrected us when ever we are doing wrong, they have sacrificed their life for our souls and the work of God in this country”.
• the teacher staff is a precious, dedicated group of men and women who deserve our highest respect.
We were all shocked with this desire of an overseer!!! I am not supprised to read in the TMB that they are a group of men and women very arrogant. We never heard our local workers asked us to give them the highest respect.
In my opinion, I only serve our God with highest respect. It seems that these people want to take God’s place in the heart of friends!!!
Sorry... that I couldn't see the kindness in Mr Lyle's letter as Nathan often said on this thread !!!
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Vietnam
May 27, 2014 10:05:26 GMT -5
Post by minhthanh on May 27, 2014 10:05:26 GMT -5
Lyle Schultz said in his letter:
Our friends are at liberty to receive Uncle Hoa into their homes for a visit if they feel comfortable with that. We are not going to try to monitor or control that. We know that many will not feel comfortable about him visiting their home as long as he is not in hearty fellowship with the teachers in this country. We understand those feelings too, because the teacher staff is a precious, dedicated group of men and women who deserve our highest respect. The bond between teachers and students is the result of a divine work that has taken place in our hearts and we need to protect that bond from any influence that would bring division among us.
Don't you love the coercive persuasion or put more bluntly "mind control" that Dale uses. Don't you love the (zero) humility and compassion that Dale shows - it reminds me of a saying that my Dad used to joke about "it's hard to be humble when you are as great as I am". So Lyle is saying: "Please feel free to invite Uncle Hoa into your home....but only if you are comfortable. And we know (hint, hint, wink, wink) that you probably won't be comfortable inviting him because we want you to know that he isn't in fellowship with us. But look if you have those feelings of discomfort, we really understand how you must feel because we know that you regard the relationship you have with us as precious.... And because we are a precious, dedicated group of men and women who deserve your highest respect, if you invite Uncle Hoa to your home, you'll just be causing division in God's Kingdom - after all it's not our work, but it's His divine work. And we know you wouldn't want to divide the precious bond that God has created." Give me strength - this is about as cultish as it gets. It's similar to Dale's letter to the Canadian friends a few years back. It reminds me of Evan Jones' affidavit to police regarding the Henderson children that tragically took their life in 1994. In it Evan J uses the same coercive persuasion..."Our organisation has no restrictions on music, dancing, television, sport, food or anything else for that matter. We do not exercise any authority over an individual's faith. However a member of our faith would not be interested in Music, Television or the like, as life is complete without them." Really Evan? Thank you for telling me what I should and shouldn't do. Thank you for telling me that I shouldn't watch television when during the time you wrote the affidavit, you seemed to tolerate some of your staff engaging in the most vile behaviour known to the human race. The hypocrisy of it is breathtaking. I actually thought this type of mind control would vanish....but I think it's alive and well. People are still regularly told that when they question a worker, they are questioning God and well they are committing blasphemy. Paul warned Timothy in 2 Timothy 3 against false teachers that are proud, boastful and having a form of godliness but denying its power. Paul warned Timothy to "have nothing to do with such people". If I was at the receiving end of a letter like this, I would take Paul's advice. I would have nothing to do with Dale and those associated with him. I have a little correction here is Lyle Schultz instead of Dale Schultz. Lyle is young brother of Dale Shultz. Lyle wrote the letter.
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Vietnam
May 31, 2014 6:42:54 GMT -5
Post by minhthanh on May 31, 2014 6:42:54 GMT -5
I've heard from my Vietnamese friend that Loren Hedahl passed away. I still remember an American brother very lovely and handsome, when I was teenage. He came to my parents home sometimes for fellowship, married with a lovely Vietnamese sister, soft and tender heart. My parents met Loren's family in 2006, at the Viet Nam veteran union of Americam soldiers in USA. Hope that uncle Châu may attend at his funeral, that would be the best meaningful oppertunity for uncle Châu in the States. We will never forget brother Loren, not because of the candy he often gave to us as we were the kids but because of his lovely tender heart.
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Vietnam
Jun 1, 2014 11:05:23 GMT -5
Post by minhthanh on Jun 1, 2014 11:05:23 GMT -5
I have posted a few times about Mrs Lan, the only lady has the name in the list of members firstly registered with the previous government (Republic of Vietnam) by uncle Fred . Today immediately after the Gospel meeting, Mrs. Lan appeared suddenly. We all were happy to see her. She knows clearly every first Sunday of the month, there is a Gospel meeting at our place. So every time she wants to meet uncle Hoa, she comes on the first Sunday of the month. Mrs Lan is very faithful and loves God and workers, especially uncle Chau and Hoa for their whole-heartedness in their work. This time I only posted the pictures of Mrs. Lan and a friend living in Sa-dec, south of VN. Their presence is special for us and we were also happy to meet them again. Tomorrow I will share what Mrs. Lan spoke to uncle Hoa. Mrs. Lan, the only lady has her name in the registered list with the authoritiesKim Anh is the lady sitting next to Mr. Bau
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Post by xuanhoan on Jun 1, 2014 19:54:36 GMT -5
Yesterday I mentioned about the ladder. Genesis 28:12 "And he dreamed. And behold, a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven. And behold, the angels of God ascending and descending on it." I heard many times workers telling about it. They likened the ladder as the only perfect way, the Truth leading people to heaven. This made me sorry for people in other religions be perishable. I also have read many times this verse John 14:6 " Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" I have never related the above two verses together until yesterday. I was very happy and saw clearly that the ladder here is the life of Jesus Christ, not any churches, not any ways, not any organisations but Christ, Himself. Wonderful!!!
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Vietnam
Jun 1, 2014 21:17:20 GMT -5
Post by slowtosee on Jun 1, 2014 21:17:20 GMT -5
AMEN Thanks for sharing that. Alvin
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Post by minhthanh on Jun 2, 2014 9:54:24 GMT -5
Yesterday we had a wonderful day in the fellowship with the friends which had the same spirit to worship God.
Today I want to share with you the longing heart of an old friend, more than 50 years faithful, and her painful heart about the mess in Viet Nam.
Mrs Lan always feels that she has the responsibility with friends and workers. She has had the communication with my parents’ family for many past decades and they have high valued each other until now.
She was not content with the happenings to uncle Chau, and she was sad to see uncle Hoa should abandon his position in 2x2 to continue leading the fold. She had written letters to responsible workers, but they didn’t care ( all the suggestions from friends were put aside).
Meanwhile we are happy and grateful to God for having a sincere, humble, sacrificing, loving worker. Yesterday uncle Hoa began the fellowship meeting with the hymn 270 Tomorrow’s Path. Really we feel calm, although we don’t know anything about tomorrow, but we know for sure now we are in loving hands of God. Uncle Hoa’s preaching was full of Spirit of God, refreshing us…There is a friend professing 3 years ago. She used to be a protestant. At first she was thirsty to the word of God, she went to any Gospel meetings in 2x2 church but she likes to go visiting with us. So the elder at the place she attended fellowship meeting asked her to choose either side and warned her not to play with evil people.
Though she has chosen the place where there are sincerity, love and unity. Presently, the 2x2 workers do not ask people to choose the side any more.
Yesterday we had two guests. Both of them were special to us. But today I tell about Mrs.Lan only, tomorrow I will tell about Kim Anh.
After we have lunch, Mrs. Lan asked uncle Hoa to sit aside to talk. She asked uncle Hoa to return although she didn’t have any authority.
1. She suggested uncle Hoa to return to help uncle Chau because uncle Chau will assume the charge of overseer when he comes home from the USA. And uncle Chau will do anything that is in the Bible only.
2. The foreign workers that do not do accordingly to the Bible will be chased home.
We were surprised to hear these words. Uncle Hoa didn’t believe and said “ wait uncle Chau return to know more exactly”. On my part, I don’t believe but some friends do.
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Post by minhthanh on Jun 4, 2014 20:25:26 GMT -5
I have shared with you the longing heart of an elderly lady. Today I tell you the other lady, Kim Anh, why she come with us?. She is married with 2 grown up children. Previously she was very happy in the way of God, enthusiastically spoke about God to many people that she contacted.
But after uncle Chau’s happenings, she was very sad, puzzled, cried…she accompanied us to visit many places efficiently…Sometimes, she went to and from more than 500 km by motorbyke to take her friend and her daughter to meeting place. The workers call at her home regularly but sometimes she doesn’t speak anything in the fellowship meeting. When workers come, she will receive and if they ask, she will reply that she doesn’t have anything to share. Recently she has suddenly become quiet and avoided to contact even through telephone… she was confused, puzzled, not knowing to follow who to be right(continue to be in 2x2 system as uncle Chau persuaded or gather with us in spirit and truth, not be bound any laws of 2x2 system) After 3 months of silence, she said that she only worship God in her heart and she suddenly appeared last Sunday, with happy face, she asked about the time of gatherings and the distant visit. Last Wednesday we had a wonderful study Bible meeting. In John 14, an interesting chapter. There were many thoughts comforting and helping us :
• Do not let your hearts be troubled. • I will not leave you as orphans. • Peace I leave with you. • Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching.
Through many experiences I see truly the Holy Spirit be with and guide me, He does not let me orphan, alone. Now I only want to say as David in Psalm 23 Surely your goodness and love will follow me all the days of my life, and I will dwell in the house of the LORD forever.
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