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Jan 25, 2014 10:36:20 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2014 10:36:20 GMT -5
Darrel becomes a big boss, because he has received a lot of money... The more he appears as if he does a good work in VN, the more he gets money from... their sources. We all know the power of money !... I'm sure that if he does not show an easy and confortable life, and goes abroad very often while being a worker. It will be not crowded of workers like this now a day. Thank you Minhthanh! I've said almost all right along that the problem with the Canadian overseers(workers) was the "Love of money...it is the root of ALL evil."Now we see really what the whole Alberta mess was brought about....there were some gas or oil well rights and perhaps agood wage fromt hem that created a "love of money" within the overseership during that time and a headiness because of this love of money that ruined lives coming and going. And presently we're seeing it again...why and where is this money coming from? Who is manipulating who to give more and more money to the workers? The friends are. Maybe not all friends are because they can ill afford even paying their tithes to the worekrs...not that the workers have ever mentioned tithing! Or at least in my hearing! I have noticed friends here and there who are very well off with money....truly some of them work hard to get that money or possessions bought with their money, but again their treasures are money based! There are more and more friends who are becoming money-minded folks...and they give freely of their success tot he workers....they don't seem selfish with their largess but they are very bent on keeping more and more money coming in...they are not shy about buying things for themselves or the workers that just appear to their mind...they don't have to back up and figure out which child's dental appointments are going to be cancelled so they can afford something! This free money has spoiled the 2x2 fellowship...and yes, not everywhere, but most everywhere...and the friends have spoiled and taught the workers how to "love money" and how to get more money...so here we're shown just exactly what that "love of money has done" to the workers sent to VN! And I strongly suspect that the folks in VN that have more money or possessions are the friends that the workers cater to....I would hope I'm wrong...but then it just happens even IF I am wrong. For the record, the oil rights in question were on land which hadn't been drilled for oil so there was no stream of revenue from oil. The worker who held a small share of them from an inheritance, did receive something from it: something in the order of $75 when an oil company was looking at drilling. That's hardly enough to start up a "love of money". There is a lot of money in the hands of overseers around the world. Aggregated, some estimates are in the range of $100 million based on extrapolating knowledge of the size of funds in a few areas. In VN, it doesn't take a lot of money for a Westerner to be rich. The exchange rate from $US to VN dong would allow an American to live in an apartment in Hanoi and eat for around $300/month if you eat domestically available food. (imported food will cost much the same as in the US). The interesting thing about MT's account is that the pictures of Darrel running around on that bike has two completely different effects on his two countries. In, VN, he looks pretty well off with his upscale bike. In Canada, he looks like he is sacrificing a lot and as MT suggests, will trigger sympathy at home for more donations.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2014 13:57:38 GMT -5
In spite of a fairly united understanding of the ungodliness of these Canadian overseers, Nathan seems to have suggested that Hoa should have followed their direction and leading, instead of, as he did, the leadings of the spirit of God to his heart.
This was the thought in the Alberta mess a few years ago -- Dale said that even when they were wrong, it was wise to follow the direction of the workers. Now Nathan is restating this ugly 2x2 principle.
How can this thought be anything else than a clear expression of complete contempt for every Christian moral value Jesus gave his life to give to us?
What has 2x2ism become?
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Jan 25, 2014 14:31:17 GMT -5
Post by fixit on Jan 25, 2014 14:31:17 GMT -5
I've said almost all right along that the problem with the Canadian overseers(workers) was the "Love of money...it is the root of ALL evil."This verse is often misinterpreted. I think the NIV better conveys the original meaning:
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Jan 25, 2014 17:25:32 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2014 17:25:32 GMT -5
I've said almost all right along that the problem with the Canadian overseers(workers) was the "Love of money...it is the root of ALL evil."This verse is often misinterpreted. I think the NIV better conveys the original meaning: Actually in this case I don't think that the love of money is the issue -- However 2x2ism has found that money is a major power factor in their organization -- and seeing that they have it, they use it effectively to gain and retain power. In this case it is the love of power and authority that is the prime root of the evil that we see so much of in 2x2ism these days.
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Jan 25, 2014 17:42:10 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2014 17:42:10 GMT -5
This verse is often misinterpreted. I think the NIV better conveys the original meaning: Actually in this case I don't think that the love of money is the issue -- However 2x2ism has found that money is a major power factor in their organization -- and seeing that they have it, they use it effectively to gain and retain power. In this case it is the love of power and authority that is the prime root of the evil that we see so much of in 2x2ism these days. That verse about the love of money being the root of much evil would probably be more encompassing to say "the love of power". After all, money is power and is only one aspect of power hungry people.
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Jan 25, 2014 18:40:40 GMT -5
Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 25, 2014 18:40:40 GMT -5
Actually in this case I don't think that the love of money is the issue -- However 2x2ism has found that money is a major power factor in their organization -- and seeing that they have it, they use it effectively to gain and retain power. In this case it is the love of power and authority that is the prime root of the evil that we see so much of in 2x2ism these days. That verse about the love of money being the root of much evil would probably be more encompassing to say "the love of power". After all, money is power and is only one aspect of power hungry people. Perhaps "wages" or "benefits" would be a better descriptive word...however, I still think that there is some love of money that has spurred this overseer power trip....look at the motocycle that is provided for him and etc. he has better more expensive things then most any of the friends...so he has power given to him through that "finanacial" boon! Also he gains benefits from his overlording position, he's feared and he can control through this "fear" as the benefit of his position...it becomes a never ending cycle or circle as it were....money buys best transportation - he admired for his taste in transportation and also people are in awe that he has such...then this over the top or average transportation gives him this awe which he uses to court those whom he sees as being the "followers" of all workers with no exception and he controls them with the use of fear...people don't want to be kicked out or looked down at by overseer because that means salvation is questionable to them.....this IS the love of POWER that keeps the cycle going on and on and on.....and who profits from it all? No one but the overseer! He gets to write back home how pitiful all his members are and how they have been so bereft of the power of the gospel the 2x2 workers preach, etc but NOW they are beginning to grow in grace of the overseer and they're learning how it is to bend under the power of their overseer/worker! All humanistic behaviors, leaving the Holy Spirit out in the cold, IMO!
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 25, 2014 18:52:17 GMT -5
In spite of a fairly united understanding of the ungodliness of these Canadian overseers, Nathan seems to have suggested that Hoa should have followed their direction and leading, instead of, as he did, the leadings of the spirit of God to his heart. This was the thought in the Alberta mess a few years ago -- Dale said that even when they were wrong, it was wise to follow the direction of the workers. Now Nathan is restating this ugly 2x2 principle. How can this thought be anything else than a clear expression of complete contempt for every Christian moral value Jesus gave his life to give to us? What has 2x2ism become? We TRUST in God as the Higher Power than Darrel, Dale and all of their Canadians staff in VN. Most of the friends, and workers are reading on here, will agree some of the things that Canadian workers are doing in VN are not godly and right toward the Native golden friends, Chau and Hoa. We believe to wait and give God time to straighten these guys out, maybe He will replace the whole Canadians staff from VN. Hoa should have expressed his feelings, sharing his thoughts with Darrel/his overseer, on how the Canadians ways of doing things are NOT working in VN! and leave at that but no need to leave the ministry! If they were wise then they will change their ways.... Don't leave the ministry just because they did not go along with his ideas.... Change or NOT it is up to them.
You don't walk out or quit your job just because your Boss doesn't like your ideas how to improve productivity in the work place. Share with them your opinions, thoughts and leave it at that.... God has removed Darrel from his position as an overseer in VN... He will do the same to Lyle S. if he doesn't help out the situation but making it worse than before.
Nathan, again I feel Uncle Hoa DID give his opinion and often the way he did it is the only way to deal with these overlording workers...thus the Alberta excommunications....those people sought hard to change things, to keep things under the Holy Spirit...but it didn't do them any good....they sought to keep their homes open to whomsoever wished could come in and share the meetings and any thing else the hosts had for them to share...but NO, the workers didn't want them ganging together because it made the workers look bad and not in control...so they excommunicated the elders who had sought to keep his home open to any that wished to worship in the home meeting. So Uncle Hoa? We don't really know what words were spoken between Hoa and his tormenters, now do we? So in order to keep the Holy Spirit in his heart, the only way he could deal with it was to remove himself from the auspices and control of the overlording overseers...... Now Uncle Chau he's of a different temperament, he can withstand more pressures, maltreatment.....so he's going along with the overlording workers......and yes, he suffers, but he knows how much he can take and he feels the truth will win out. Two different men, two different abilities and talents...so please do not disparage poor Uncle Hoa because he made a choice to leave! As you know, many of the exes tried to stay within the fellowship and help bring about the changes that they felt were needed and it didn't work...it came down to allowing a person's own integrity to be put aside in order to stick with it...that destroys people, Nathan..... [/quote]
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Jan 25, 2014 21:20:33 GMT -5
Post by fixit on Jan 25, 2014 21:20:33 GMT -5
God has removed Darrel from his position as an overseer in VN... He will do the same to Lyle S. if he doesn't help out the situation but making it worse than before. Do you think it was God who made Darrell the boss of Uncle Chau and Uncle Hoa?
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Jan 25, 2014 21:26:31 GMT -5
Post by fixit on Jan 25, 2014 21:26:31 GMT -5
Hoa should have expressed his feelings, sharing his thoughts with Darrel/his overseer, on how the Canadians ways of doing things are NOT working in VN! and leave at that but no need to leave the ministry! If they were wise then they will change their ways.... Don't leave the ministry just because they did not go along with his ideas.... Change or NOT it is up to them. You don't walk out or quit your job just because your Boss doesn't like your ideas how to improve productivity in the work place. Share with them your opinions, thoughts and leave it at that.... I expect Uncle Hoa was given an ultimatum... "Either you submit to our authority or you have no place in the work." Here's how it worked for Marg Magowan:
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Jan 25, 2014 22:06:55 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2014 22:06:55 GMT -5
From the boss workers point of view, anyone who challenges them or their authority are simply usurpers of the worker's authority. It is just that simple, cut and dried. This is why I grieved so over what I knew is happening in Vietnam. As far as those challenged workers are concerned, those who do so should have the earth open up and swallow those who challenge them in any way.
they actually believe they have the right to condemn any such person to eternal damnation. That was their point of view when I heard it from the inside listening to them (overseers) talk, and it is obviously their point of view now. They are just too far above mere believers who follow them, and none are to forget that.
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Jan 25, 2014 22:42:10 GMT -5
Post by Scott Ross on Jan 25, 2014 22:42:10 GMT -5
Do you think it was God who made Darrell the boss of Uncle Chau and Uncle Hoa? I believe God has allowed it.... to accomplish his purpose in Chau and Hoa's life, and those who are involved... To test their faith, characters, spirits, attitudes toward those who treated them ungodly and unkindly. It's a miracle how God opened the door and reinstated uncle Chau back in the work. God is GREAT. Chau's attitude, spirit continue to shine forth as the light on the hill to glorify God by forgive those who badly mistreated him.
In his letter, Lyle S. has left the door wide open for Uncle Hoa to come back in the work.... I hope Dale makes a great change and make things right with all those are involved... Maybe, uncle Hoa will come back to the fellowship and ministry.
And why do you think God allowed other workers to appoint Ira Hobbs to be overseer when he was a known abuser? Or why God allowed overseers to simply move abusers around without dealing with the issues. You truly think that was God's plan, or was that man's plan? At what point do you feel that something is 'of man', rather than 'of God'? Personally, I think that the Vietnamese govt should give the boot to all those foreign workers who are trying to come in and run a religion. It sounds like they are breaking the law in doing so, if I am reading the posts correctly. Do you think it is God's will that they be allowed to do that, Nathan? I personally hope that at some point the members of the fellowship take over the church and seize all assets and boot these horrible overseers out in favor of workers who are true spiritual advisers and preachers of Christ. (and no... I am not saying that all overseers are horrible) While you think this is some test of Chau and Hoa, I see it as a test of the church in putting up with such crap. And guess what....... ? The church is losing. It is losing more members who loved the fellowship, and once again had to vote with their feet because of horrible and unGodly decisions by senior workers.
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Jan 25, 2014 22:48:33 GMT -5
Post by fixit on Jan 25, 2014 22:48:33 GMT -5
From the boss workers point of view, anyone who challenges them or their authority are simply usurpers of the worker's authority. It is just that simple, cut and dried. This is why I grieved so over what I knew is happening in Vietnam. As far as those challenged workers are concerned, those who do so should have the earth open up and swallow those who challenge them in any way.
they actually believe they have the right to condemn any such person to eternal damnation. That was their point of view when I heard it from the inside listening to them (overseers) talk, and it is obviously their point of view now. They are just too far above mere believers who follow them, and none are to forget that. The ministry and fellowship is being destroyed by exclusivity. Workers get the idea that salvation hinges on them i.e. no one can come directly to God except through their ministry. It's like Gollum's ring to them. God never intended that any man or man-made organization would have that much power (please start a new thread StAnne if you want to give the Catholic opinion on that).
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Jan 25, 2014 22:57:08 GMT -5
Post by fixit on Jan 25, 2014 22:57:08 GMT -5
While you think this is some test of Chau and Hoa, I see it as a test of the church in putting up with such crap. And guess what....... ? The church is losing. It is losing more members who loved the fellowship, and once again had to vote with their feet because of horrible and unGodly decisions by senior workers. That's very profound Scott. The church is losing because the overseers have system-minded church members on a Kool-Aid drip. Dale Shultz should never have been allowed to get away with this kind of attitude: Added: I just noticed another letter from Dale Shultz. He sure doesn't trust the friends...
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Jan 25, 2014 23:31:40 GMT -5
Post by Scott Ross on Jan 25, 2014 23:31:40 GMT -5
While you think this is some test of Chau and Hoa, I see it as a test of the church in putting up with such crap. And guess what....... ? The church is losing. It is losing more members who loved the fellowship, and once again had to vote with their feet because of horrible and unGodly decisions by senior workers. That's very profound Scott. The church is losing because the overseers have system-minded church members on a Kool-Aid drip. Dale Shultz should never have been allowed to get away with this kind of attitude: As always, my thoughts are that these senior workers get away with such things because the church members allow them to. At least that is what these senior workers must believe. In actuality, these senior workers are losing more trust and respect each time they pull out their bag of tricks. ' This attitude in dealing with the Alberta fiasco cost the church what? Did the senior workers gain any trust and respect for their actions? Did it bring more people into the fellowship? Did it prove to the church that the senior workers were looking out for the welfare of the church? Nope...... As in every one of these types of situations (as is happening in Vietnam now) we read that they LOSE trust and respect. They LOSE people who love(d) the fellowship. And they PROVE once again that the senior workers are more interested in playing power-play games rather than looking out for the welfare of the church. So now, we have another 50+ pages of posts discussing (once again) how senior workers abuse their place in the fellowship at the expense of the church as a whole. And what have they gained out of all this? Have they gained some measure of 'control' in Vietnam? I don't think so. Now you have families that are alienated, the peace of the church there is disrupted, and professing folks around the world are reading about just how inept some who used to be considered 'spiritual leaders' really are. Of real interest is reading the posts of those who are professing in regard to what is taking place. You guys are MAD at how these guys are acting, and you are MAD at how they are destroying your church. And what can you really do about it? Not much..... because there are so many senior workers who refuse to listen to the very people that provide them with food, shelter. money, transportation........ So what will happen? Well...... some more people are going to read about this, look at their local area, realize that their area is the same as Vietnam in regard to inept 'spiritual advisors', and yep...... eventually some more people are going to show their support by voting with their feet..... and walking away. I hear fairly often that it isn't always what is going on locally that causes people to leave, it is what is happening in other parts of the world that does so.
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Post by Scott Ross on Jan 26, 2014 0:49:35 GMT -5
Your last sentence is Interesting. Uncle Hoa doesn't need to come back to the fellowship and ministry. Why? Simply because he has never left. He continues to be in fellowship with Jesus and with those who follow Jesus in Vietnam. When are we going to be honest and simply say that the 2x2 fellowship led by Dale and his acolytes left Hoa? He doesn't need to come back and nor do the friends who have left - they have Christ and that is all that matters. They also have each other and in due course God will bring them in touch with other Christians in Vietnam and elsewhere who also serve and worship Jesus. Just like he has with most of us who have left the 2x2 fellowship - we didn't leave Christ but left a ministry which was increasingly focused on itself. God is indeed great and He will look after those who worship Him alone. The following verses come to mind - Romans 11:36, Ephesians 3:21, 1 Peter 5:11, Philippians 4:20 and others. If uncle Hoa has never left the work then how come the current friends and workers don't see him anymore? Like others have mentioned in the beginning of this thread, the golden friends and Hoa are going to be like Edward Cooney group.... eventually they will just fade away after Hoa has passed away. Huh??? They aren't going to fade away. They will still be Christians, and they will still love the Lord. You might not hear of them, but that doesn't mean they have faded away. There are a LOT of people that post here on the TMB who believe that once they left the fellowship, they became closer than ever to God. Maybe that is because they didn't have to worry about going through a man, trying to stand in the way of coming into the presence of God.......
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Post by Scott Ross on Jan 26, 2014 1:08:04 GMT -5
Huh??? They aren't going to fade away. They will still be Christians, and they will still love the Lord. You might not hear of them, but that doesn't mean they have faded away. There are a LOT of people that post here on the TMB who believe that once they left the fellowship, they became closer than ever to God. Maybe that is because they didn't have to worry about going through a man, trying to stand in the way of coming into the presence of God....... Time will tell about Hoa and the golden friends future... What are they going to do when Hoa passed away. Do they know what they are going to do after Hoa has passed on? How are they going to keep their group together? Will all of them stay together or many of them go on their separate ways? Join different Protestant churches?Does it really matter WHERE they go, or whether they join a different church? And if so, why do you feel that way? Since you seem to believe that they are currently out of the truth fellowship, do you think that they are now 'lost', and going to hell?
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Jan 26, 2014 1:13:23 GMT -5
Post by Scott Ross on Jan 26, 2014 1:13:23 GMT -5
You probably didn't see these questions I asked, Nathan, so I thought I would bring them over to this page so you could answer them. I would be very interested in your views concerning what is God's work among the overseer ranks, and what you would consider to be man's work. Or do you feel that immoral, corrupt and lying overseers are actually carrying out God's work?........ I believe God has allowed it.... to accomplish his purpose in Chau and Hoa's life, and those who are involved... To test their faith, characters, spirits, attitudes toward those who treated them ungodly and unkindly. It's a miracle how God opened the door and reinstated uncle Chau back in the work. God is GREAT. Chau's attitude, spirit continue to shine forth as the light on the hill to glorify God by forgive those who badly mistreated him.
In his letter, Lyle S. has left the door wide open for Uncle Hoa to come back in the work.... I hope Dale makes a great change and make things right with all those are involved... Maybe, uncle Hoa will come back to the fellowship and ministry.
And why do you think God allowed other workers to appoint Ira Hobbs to be overseer when he was a known abuser? Or why God allowed overseers to simply move abusers around without dealing with the issues. You truly think that was God's plan, or was that man's plan? At what point do you feel that something is 'of man', rather than 'of God'? Personally, I think that the Vietnamese govt should give the boot to all those foreign workers who are trying to come in and run a religion. It sounds like they are breaking the law in doing so, if I am reading the posts correctly. Do you think it is God's will that they be allowed to do that, Nathan? I personally hope that at some point the members of the fellowship take over the church and seize all assets and boot these horrible overseers out in favor of workers who are true spiritual advisers and preachers of Christ. (and no... I am not saying that all overseers are horrible) While you think this is some test of Chau and Hoa, I see it as a test of the church in putting up with such crap. And guess what....... ? The church is losing. It is losing more members who loved the fellowship, and once again had to vote with their feet because of horrible and unGodly decisions by senior workers.
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Jan 26, 2014 1:21:49 GMT -5
Post by quizzer on Jan 26, 2014 1:21:49 GMT -5
Can someone please help here ....... When Chau came to South Australia last year to be a companion in a mission, was he still classed to be in the Work as far as the VN people and workers in VN were concerned? The 'picture' we seem to have is that he was put out of the Work in VN so was sent down to South Australia to preach. Is this right, because to us a person is either IN or OUT of the Work. Cant be out of the Work in VN but allowed in the Work in SA? We heard him at convention and he seemed to be well liked. I know of some cases where a worker was dismissed by one overseer but taken on by another overseer. In fact that happened to one of the Canadian workers in VN who had been dismissed by Willis Propp, out for awhile, then taken back in by Dale Schultz. Was DS an overseer in a different country from Willis Propp when DS brought this worker back into the work? I could be wrong, but I can only see this happening if the overseers are in different countries.
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Jan 26, 2014 1:34:56 GMT -5
Post by Scott Ross on Jan 26, 2014 1:34:56 GMT -5
Scott, good questions... let me try to answer your questions tomorrow night. I have to go to work at 5 AM. I need to get some zzzzzzz... WORK? Oh... I forgot that not everyone is retired..... Ha!! Yeah.... you better go get your sleep.
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Jan 26, 2014 2:09:55 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2014 2:09:55 GMT -5
I know of some cases where a worker was dismissed by one overseer but taken on by another overseer. In fact that happened to one of the Canadian workers in VN who had been dismissed by Willis Propp, out for awhile, then taken back in by Dale Schultz. Was DS an overseer in a different country from Willis Propp when DS brought this worker back into the work? I could be wrong, but I can only see this happening if the overseers are in different countries. No, DS was overseer of the neighbouring province of Saskatchewan. People who were struggling in Alberta appealed to 3 overseers in neighbouring states/provinces: Paul Sharpe in BC, Jack Price in Montana and Dale Schultz in Saskatchewan. There are indications that Dale opposed Willis in usual 2x2 fashion....in secret and behind his back, but failed to change anything in the short term. So when he took on the Alberta worker who was displaced for a year or so, he was already somewhat estranged from Willis. DS won eventually....he got Willis removed, Eldon Tenniswood passed away and he took over all of the Western Alliance with his own appointees in most overseer jobs. Anyway, the point is that he knew Willis was too weakened from the AB mess and that taking on one of his staff who had trouble with Willis actually enhanced his reputation. That's probably more detail than you were looking for!
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Jan 26, 2014 9:54:31 GMT -5
Post by minhthanh on Jan 26, 2014 9:54:31 GMT -5
Can someone please help here ....... When Chau came to South Australia last year to be a companion in a mission, was he still classed to be in the Work as far as the VN people and workers in VN were concerned? The 'picture' we seem to have is that he was put out of the Work in VN so was sent down to South Australia to preach. Is this right, because to us a person is either IN or OUT of the Work. Cant be out of the Work in VN but allowed in the Work in SA? We heard him at convention and he seemed to be well liked. Darrel Turner, overseer, kicked uncle Châu out of work, and I know Darrel wanted to kick him out permanently. This information I knew from the Vietnamese teacher of Darrel Turner. God's people waited for a time (after 3 years), they saw these Canadian worker continually badly behaved uncle Chau, they have reaction. Uncle Hoa didn't agree with this Canadian Overseer many things and he knew that sooner or later he would have the same fate as uncle Châu. Furthermore, he had read TTT website and knew the truth about 2x2, he boldly left out 2x2 and didn't cooperate with these Canadian workers any more. By the reaction of God's people and uncle Hoa, they have to solve the problem by demoting Darrel Turner and sent another Canadian overseer, Lyle Schutz, Dale's brother to Vietnam. Lyle Schutz restored the work for uncle Chau furtively and sent him immediately to Cambodia. But some friends visited him in Cambodia, when returning they said uncle Chau stayed in Cambodia like a babysitter because he couldn't speak Khmer, so he taught English for many young boys and girls as a babysitter. And his companion is an Australian worker,LIoyd. LIoyd has an age worthy his son, but Lyle Schutz set Uncle Chau under LIoyd's control. It's a shame. Due to many Vietnamese friends could visit him, Cambodia has the same border as Vietnam, they sent uncle Chau farther, to East Timor, this place they don't speak English, they speak Portuguese. This country allow visa only 6 months. After 6 months, Lyle Schutlz sent him to Australia. And he preached in Australia and had a convention tour there. Then he was absent too long from the country, policeman ask him to return. He has returned to vietnam and Lyle Shutlz has a plan for him to go to cambodia again. My question is: Why the Vietnamese people need him to preach the gospel? I think Australia has a lot of workers,if there is a need to have more workers, I think some Canadian workers are staying in Vietnam can have a better job preaching in Australia because they have the same language than uncle Chau. And if he goes to Cambodia to be a babysitter, it is a waste, isn't it?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2014 10:14:07 GMT -5
Can someone please help here ....... When Chau came to South Australia last year to be a companion in a mission, was he still classed to be in the Work as far as the VN people and workers in VN were concerned? The 'picture' we seem to have is that he was put out of the Work in VN so was sent down to South Australia to preach. Is this right, because to us a person is either IN or OUT of the Work. Cant be out of the Work in VN but allowed in the Work in SA? We heard him at convention and he seemed to be well liked. Darrel Turner, overseer, kicked uncle Châu out of work, and I know Darrel wanted to kick him out permanently. This information I knew from the Vietnamese teacher of Darrel Turner. God's people waited for a time (after 3 years), they saw these Canadian worker continually badly behaved uncle Chau, they have reaction. Uncle Hoa didn't agree with this Canadian Overseer many things and he knew that sooner or later he would have the same fate as uncle Châu. Furthermore, he had read TTT website and knew the truth about 2x2, he boldly left out 2x2 and didn't cooperate with these Canadian workers any more. By the reaction of God's people and uncle Hoa, they have to solve the problem by demoting Darrel Turner and sent another Canadian overseer, Lyle Schutz, Dale's brother to Vietnam. Lyle Schutz restored the work for uncle Chau furtively and sent him immediately to Cambodia. But some friends visited him in Cambodia, when returning they said uncle Chau stayed in Cambodia like a babysitter because he couldn't speak Khmer, so he taught English for many young boys and girls as a babysitter. And his companion is an Australian worker,LIoyd. LIoyd has an age worthy his son, but Lyle Schutz set Uncle Chau under LIoyd's control. It's a shame. Due to many Vietnamese friends could visit him, Cambodia has the same border as Vietnam, they sent uncle Chau farther, to East Timor, this place they don't speak English, they speak Portuguese. This country allow visa only 6 months. After 6 months, Lyle Schutlz sent him to Australia. And he preached in Australia and had a convention tour there. Then he was absent too long from the country, policeman ask him to return. He has returned to vietnam and Lyle Shutlz has a plan for him to go to cambodia again. My question is: Why the Vietnamese people need him to preach the gospel? I think Australia has a lot of workers,if there is a need to have more workers, I think some Canadian workers are staying in Vietnam can have a better job preaching in Australia because they have the same language than uncle Chau. And if he goes to Cambodia to be a babysitter, it is a waste, isn't it? Chau's presence in Vietnam is unsettling to Lyle's leadership there so he is sent out of the country to where he can't do anything to disturb the Canadians' hold on VN overseership. He is only kept in the work to make it appear that Lyle is merciful, which he isn't.....he would rather see Chau out of the work or completely subservient to him. That's the way I see it anyway.
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Vietnam
Jan 26, 2014 11:21:06 GMT -5
Post by minhthanh on Jan 26, 2014 11:21:06 GMT -5
Chau is indeed a true servant of God all around, loving, humble with a meek spirit. If I were in Hoa's position I would follow Chau's example.
Hi Nathan I want to say the same as you… “ If I were in uncle Châu’s position I would follow uncle Hoa's example.”
All you have said proving that you don’t know well what have been happening in VN. You just heard from F&W in 2x2 and spoken for them, especially for uncle Châu, too. If you know in details every thing uncle Châu has been facing till now. You would never want follow Châu’s example. Uncle Châu has asked me please don’t post what I have told you, or my situation into internet, for I will be misunderstood with my brothers (He means brother workers), reading what you post will make my family being crazy !... So it is better bypass uncle Châu aside, he said he is getting old, he needs peace !... His manner too soft to bear many things like this. But I hardly hide his family how badly they treated to him… Because his brother and sister (my teacher) skype to me very often, I don’t want to cover bad things. Time will tell about Hoa and the golden friends future... What are they going to do when Hoa passed away. Do they know what they are going to do after Hoa has passed on? After liberation day all the foreigner workers left VN, as to me they are passed on from that day, because no one among them return to VN to preach. What were we going to do after they all left. The golden time had proved for all people over the world knowing that God had led us through these decades. Do they know what they are going to do In God’s hand, and his planing for us, we don’t need to worry what are we going to do, God’s plan is perfect for us, we trust in Him. It was working beautifully when they were in charge of the work in VN. They go every where looking, finding the lost souls.Not only you, but every one can see the result when we put our life and trust in His Mighty Hand. Doing what Chau and Hoa did can burn out a person real quick, because of the hardships they endured for many years they have no problem at all.God has given His strength to whom who serve Him with all their heart. We see clearly the more dificult they face with, the more joy they win, and the fruitful work they get. I do bet with you that uncle Châu now wishing to be back in the golden time, under the leading of God as He said in Matthew 11: 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.” (man yoke quite different). This is also the answer why uncle Hoa wants to wear God's yoke than man's yoke. Nathan, is it the clearly answer to you that how we will go on… God will show you the answer how He takes care for us in the future. We trust and belive in His love and care. And here is the answer for you (Nathan) in The Bible Psalm 3
1 LORD, how many are my foes!
How many rise up against me!
2 Many are saying of me,
“God will not deliver him.”
3 But you, LORD, are a shield around me,
my glory, the One who lifts my head high.
4 I call out to the LORD,
and he answers me from his holy mountain.
5 I lie down and sleep;
I wake again, because the LORD sustains me.
6 I will not fear though tens of thousands
assail me on every side.
if uncle Hoa were his senior companion then he must obey/listen to him. Nathan, What you said just the right in method or in other countries not in VN. Now uncle Chau has the opportunity to help a young worker, his age as if uncle Châu’s son. He is under his control. The same as Miss Mai Hoa too, has to obey the younger worker whom the overseer trusts.
In my opinion, Hoa should have obeyed his overseer's guidance Nathan... Overseer not doing under The Spirit of God, how can you persuade uncle Hoa to obey him. While you are saying I too strongly disagree with how Darrel had mistreated, and removed our two native workers! are you contradicting with yourself !...
the pictures of Darrel running around on that bike has two completely different effects on his two countries. I didn’t know how Darrel and Morris show in their country, but in my country they are likely as a wealthy businessmen ( a big shot). No friends in VN ride an expensive motobike as them. We are very afraid for their security , because the robbers often attack and kill the people riding SH motobike.
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Vietnam
Jan 26, 2014 11:35:40 GMT -5
Post by CherieKropp on Jan 26, 2014 11:35:40 GMT -5
View picture of 2013 Honda SH MotorbikePrice: 2013 Honda SH has five attractive color options, the solid (gray, red, brown, black, white) for Vietnam New SH 125i price is 65.99 million Dong, and New SH 150i 79.99 million Dong.
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Post by minhthanh on Jan 26, 2014 11:41:41 GMT -5
Now I tell you the reason why I have changed my picture in the board. My husband not only follows what I have posted in the board, but also reads many other threads on board. Sometimes seeing I am too busy, don't have much time to answer some questions. Immediately he helps me answer some questions. So we are two in one on board . Not only my husband helps me, but also my close friend, who is living in USA invited me to go into this board, she gave me many good ideas. She is the one who translated uncle Lyle's letter into English. So I am not working alone in this board .
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Vietnam
Jan 26, 2014 11:50:04 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2014 11:50:04 GMT -5
View picture of 2013 Honda SH MotorbikePrice: 2013 Honda SH has five attractive color options, the solid (gray, red, brown, black, white) for Vietnam New SH 125i price is 65.99 million Dong, and New SH 150i 79.99 million Dong. That's about $3800US. Average annual wage in VN is in the ballpark of $2500US. That means if an American drove a car with the average annual wage of the US, they would be driving a car worth nearly $70,000. That would pretty much get you a new Cadillac Escalade. So it is easy to see why people were thinking the Canadians were running around like "big shot" wealthy businessmen.
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Vietnam
Jan 26, 2014 12:02:04 GMT -5
Post by minhthanh on Jan 26, 2014 12:02:04 GMT -5
View picture of 2013 Honda SH MotorbikePrice: 2013 Honda SH has five attractive color options, the solid (gray, red, brown, black, white) for Vietnam New SH 125i price is 65.99 million Dong, and New SH 150i 79.99 million Dong. I really don't know what kind of SH the Overseer in Vietnam rides. Seeing Darrel Turner riding on SH motorbike to my house, my son said "I wish if I were the worker for I could get one like this. With the price of this SH the government can build ten loving houses for poor people". The SH motorbike imported is more expensive. Here is the price I just search on internet. 13.000 USD Honda SH nhập chạm mức 13.000 USD - VnExpress vnexpress.net/...xe.../honda-sh-nhap-cham-muc-13-000-usd-2921074.ht...
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Vietnam
Jan 26, 2014 12:11:23 GMT -5
Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 26, 2014 12:11:23 GMT -5
Do you think it was God who made Darrell the boss of Uncle Chau and Uncle Hoa? I believe God has allowed it.... to accomplish his purpose in Chau and Hoa's life, and those who are involved... To test their faith, characters, spirits, attitudes toward those who treated them ungodly and unkindly. It's a miracle how God opened the door and reinstated uncle Chau back in the work. God is GREAT. Chau's attitude, spirit continue to shine forth as the light on the hill to glorify God by forgive those who badly mistreated him.
In his letter, Lyle S. has left the door wide open for Uncle Hoa to come back in the work.... I hope Dale makes a great change and make things right with all those are involved... Maybe, uncle Hoa will come back to the fellowship and ministry.
I'm sorry, Nathan, but I don't see the hand of God in what the Canadian workers done! I don't see it necessary that Hoa and Chau be treated so...they've had tests after tests alone in their own country! The government is something they must NOT forget....they also have long miles to get from one point to another on old cycles or bicycles....how much more testing can this be for a couple of older men? They were always ready to be at hand for any of the friends or younger native workers...often dropping what they were doing to reach those in need. I feel that the complete selflissness that Hoa and Chau had during those years when America/Canadian workers not let into the country, is testimony to what God really wants...how can he allow such treatment amongst his faithful servants? And servants they were and still trying to be......hindered only by the pride of their overseers! Sheesh....NO I think the things God is allowing in this is the "proving of those proud arrogant Canadian workers"....showing whether they obey the first 2 commandments and so far they haven't done it!
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