Ditto to Believer's post #68.
Because the 2x2 church/ministry never was a continuation of the NT ministry...it was an effort to copy it (restore it) that the workers passed off as being the exact item...but it never was. And yes, for that they should/need to apologize.
~~ You don't know 100% sure do you that the 2x2 church/ministry is NOT a continuation. You didn't know early on that WI, John Long, Edward Cooney, other workers, and the friends were following/continuing the New Testament ministry and fellowship. So, now you're guessing, hoping wanting to believe is NOT a continuation because I hate to be in your shoes in the day of judgment.... for all the people you have mislead and believe in your research.Jesus had laid the foundation: (I Cor. 3: 10-15). I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other Foundation can no man lay than the One already laid which is Jesus Christ? Now if any man Build upon this foundation, gold, silver, precious stones (Jesus teachings) wood, hay, stubble (traditions of men). Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire, and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abides which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a Reward.
~~~
Edward Cooney: "We did NOT start this Jesus Way...it was started and planned by God before we were ever thought of, and we are NOT starting a new religion. We are earnestly contending for the faith once delivered to the Saints and trying to separate it from the traditions of men..." Edward Cooney (2x2 Go-preacher) said to Impartial Reporter 1O/7/1909.
Edward Cooney: There was in the days gone by,
a certain man called William Irvine, upon whose heart Gods spirit worked to raise him up like the judges of old, to lead back those in Christendom to the truth as it is in Jesus. (Reprinted from Edward Cooney's Testimony reprinted in Selected Letters Hymns and Poems of Edward Cooney 1867-1960, by Patricia Roberts, Pages 43-45)
Edward Cooney: Undoubtedly God called us and separated us to be His people in the beginning;
and most prominent and most used in this calling out a people for God's name was William Irvine who, at the time of his being sent forth to be a prophet, saw more clearly than any of us that the revelation of the Father to each individual child of His is the Rock alone on which Jesus Christ would build his church, and that the gates of Hades should not prevail against it. (Letter by Edward Cooney to My dear Sister dated May, 1930 Reprinted from: Selected Letters, Hymns, and Poems of Edward Cooney 1867- 1960 by Patricia Roberts)
Ed Cooney stated in his letter to Alice Flett: "I traveled for my father's business and preached inside and outside, as occasion offered, with some persecution.
Whilst doing so, I met William Irvine through whom George Walker, Jack Carroll, William Carroll, Willie Gill and a number of the present leaders professed, including James Jardine.
William Irvine and I were drawn together as brothers in Christ, each of us claiming liberty to follow Jesus as we received progressive light from God by the Spirit...~~ Thanks, to Cherie Kroppwww.tellingthetruth.info/workers_early/cooneyed.php#SaraWestAbout The 1928 Division
By Mrs. Sara West
August 31, 1954I grew up in the same town (Enniskillen) as Edward Cooney and knew that he with Tom Betty, and my husband John West (deceased) held evangelical meetings together in connection with the different churches. Edward Cooney was then in fellowship with William Irvine of Kilsyth, Scotland and others including William Carroll (deceased), George Walker, Thomas Elliott and his wife.
At that time Edward Cooney travelled through Ireland in connection with his father's business and met William Irvine a preacher who was moving out from the Faith Mission to go forth without purse etc. (Matthew ten) to preach the gospel of Jesus, the Son of God (Mark 1:1) on apostolic lines; he was seeking after truth and clearer light. These things happened in 1890’s and onwards.About 1902-3 my husband and I went to meetings in a cottage owned by Tilly Moore who afterwards became a preacher. She was a convert of Edward Cooney's who had given up money and possessions sometime previous to this to preach the Gospel of Jesus in fellowship with William Irvine. In those meetings referred to, we heard Thomas Elliott, one of this small group of preachers give testimony to having sold his home and farm to go forth with his wife to live a life of faith preaching the Gospel of Jesus. Believing them to be God's true people we became one with them in the faith and opened our home to them. Many others in the County did the same thing; among them were my husband's brother Wm. West of Mullaghmeen, Ballinamallard, also three sisters, Mrs. Roberts and husband, Mrs. Reid, and Miss West, Bournemouth, England.
About this time William Irvine and Edward Cooney asked my husband and I if we would be willing to have convention in our home. We were willing and conventions were held there (Crocknacrieve) until 1920 when we sold it and came to live at Rossahilly, Ballinamallard. After that conventions were held at Mullaghmeen.
In 1928, an overseer preacher, Wilson Reid, who often visited our home told us that Edward Cooney, who was then in America was coming home, and warned us that he was giving trouble out there and not to have fellowship with him. George Walker and others called on the same mission of warning. My husband and others suggested having a meeting on Bible lines with elders and have Edward Cooney there too, so that both sides would be heard by them to judge. A meeting was arranged in Irvine's town but Edward Cooney was not there. My husband and others then decided to keep an open mind until Edward Cooney came back and hear his side. They thought it very strange to hear that Edward would change and preach false doctrine inside a few years because we knew that God had used him in a great measure in different parts of England and Ireland. Wilson Reid and many in fellowship with us never came back to our home after making the decision to hear Edward Cooney's side.
When Edward Cooney did come back, we could not see any change in him; he was as sincere and ardent as ever, preaching the same simple gospel as we heard at the beginning. A meeting of old workers was held in Clankilvorah, an open home near Lurgan, Co. Armagh, among them being T. Elliott, Jack Carroll, Wm. Gill (deceased) etc. J. Carroll refused to listen or have fellowship with Edward Cooney who was also there. Thomas Elliott stood by Edward Cooney at that time because he saw an unrighteous act being done towards him. To the sorrow of many, those who kept their homes open to Edward Cooney became outcast from their brethren, and in that way the division started.
I should mention here that William Irvine (deceased) professed through Rev. John McNeill (Presbyterian) Scotland some years before going forth to preach on apostolic lines. Many of the older ones in fellowship for a long time felt there was a drift in Testimony towards organization and compromise with world's way, away from simplicity of Christ, before division took place, and we then understood that the trouble Edward Cooney was charged with causing in America was his anxiety as an elder, to warn his brethren of the falling away from early teaching.
By Sara West
Rossahilly, Ballinamallard,
County Fermanagh, Northern Ireland
Testimony of Ida West
(Daughter of John & Sara West)
Rossahilly, Ballinamallard, N. Ireland
August, 1954 An interested person has asked me to tell my story with regard to my faith and the fellowship I have kept.
My parents, John and Sara West, were brought up in the Church of Ireland (Anglican). My father, for a time previous to his marriage, moved and worked among the Methodists.
Soon after his marriage in 1901, he, Edward Cooney, Tom Betty and others, all of whom used to evangelize together, moved out of the sects to which they belonged, Church of Ireland, Methodist, Presbyterian and so on, into fellowship with William Irvine, a Scottish Presbyterian evangelist in the Faith Mission, who was with others moving out of Faith Mission toward clearer light on New Testament teaching and practices. They took the view that Christendom was confusion of which God was not the author.
So they decided to go to Christendom and the world the way Jesus sent his apostles to Israel (Matthew 10) and to the world (Matthew 28). This is what the preachers did. My father, who did not go to preach, opened his heart and home to these preachers who sold their possessions, scattered their money to the poor and went out to preach by faith. Their message was repent, believe the gospel, follow the teaching and example of New Testament founders--Christ and the apostles. This move raised the opposition of clergy and leaders among the denominations, e.g. Church of Ireland, Methodists, Presbyterians, Salvation Army, Plymouth Brethren and others.
The young movement held the course to take was 'Come out of Babylon' which is confusion. By this they meant to refuse fellowship with the world, false teachers and systems because they contradicted the teaching and example of Christ and his apostles. Their opponents held that it was better to stay in and clean up inside; but they ignored the fact that principalities and powers need exposure and triumphing over (Col. 2:15). This could only be done by a fuller manifestation of Christ through willing witnesses which this people proved by bearing their cross representing Christ as He in bearing his cross represented or declared the Father. The movement grew and spread rapidly. Some mistakes were made, the chief of which came to light in 1914.
Someone asked some questions to Willie Hughes in 1931:1. Would you kindly give me the origin and history of your organization?
Ans:.
The religious world has passed through many stages of apostasy and reformation, since Christ and His apostles established Christianity upon the earth, but we have no reason to think, nor right to say that God has not at all times been able to preserve a true seed in the world, a seed or people who have always looked beyond form or schism and creed back to the Way and Truth of Christ. Back to Christianity in its purity and simplicity, back to the living Christianity which was very much more than a creed, back to the Christlike humble sacrificing ministry as exemplified in the New Testament apostles, back to a Christianity which refused all conformity to the world.
But (perhaps as a sign that the world is nearing the return of the Lord to the earth) there has in recent years been a very real and distinct turning of the minds and hearts of men and women towards its simplicity and purity of early Christianity. This is undoubtedly attributable to what we may call the modernization of Christianity, the lack of clear unequivocal preaching of the Gospel of Christ, the tendency of holding only a head belief in Christ, instead of a faith which leads to true discipleship, questionable ways of raising money for religious work, flirtation with the world in its pleasures, sins and fashions, and other things which the Bible says would prevail in the last days.
The foundation and authorship of
this movement cannot be attributed to any one man or number of men but is the result of reaching after Truth, during a number of years, of many men. Many no doubt have been unwilling for the sacrifice, when their minds were turned back to the lowly way of Christ, but others have been willing to sacrifice everything in their desire to get back to the simplicity and sincerity of the early Christianity and to lead others to do likewise.
This is our aim--it is heartily welcomed by some but hated by others. This is as simply as I can put the case although our desire to follow the one Lord and to preach his Gospel binds us into a very real fellowship, we have either any headquarters on earth nor a Headman . Our preachers are all on the same level (as Christ said they should be) and so we desire to be known only as Christians or followers of Christ.
[Willie John Hughes was born April 23, 1880 in Rathmolyon, County Meath, Ireland. He professed in 1905 and went in work 1906. He died Oct . 5, 1966 in New Zealand, and is buried in Pukekohe, New Zealand. He Worked in Ireland (1906), Victoria (1907-1909), New Zealand (1909-1913), Nova Scotia (1913-1917), South Australia (1918-1941) and New Zealand (1941-1966), the latter two assignments being as Overseer. His brother Charlie was overseer in New York/New England and Virginia/Maryland for many years, and a sister Aggie was in the work in Australia, where she died at age 52. He was a good speaker and administrator, very personable, as well as being quite talented musically and poetically. He wrote a few hymns found in Hymns Old & New.]
"We believe we (the apostles) have existed since Jesus sent forth the 70 disciples Two and Two."
Richard Sullivan."It's from the beginning, planned in God's mind before creation.
Walter Nelson, 1967"Was William Irvine the first in the way?"
"I think William was amongst the first... I feel that God has had a Way on the earth since before the foundation of the earth... I don't believe William Irvine is the beginner of it."
Bea Mokini, 1985 In answer to your question, "Where did this religion actually begin?"
Was it with Jesus as we have been told in Gospel Meetings, or by a man name William Irvine in 1897? We believe Hebrews 12:2 "Looking to Jesus the Author and Finisher of our faith." I would like to give you some references that mean a lot to me as we carry the Gospel to people and point them to something that is from the beginning and not to something started by MAN. In John 17:5 Jesus spoke of the glory which He had with the Father before the world was, and in John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word" etc. So, there is NO date for the starting, as it was with the Heavenly Father before the world. Why would we want something started by a Man when we have in the scripture something that is from the beginning and the scripture to back it up?
Doris B. letter, 1989"I never met William Irvine at any time and believe he was used of God, but was never the origin of what we believe. I understand he became too big in himself and left the fellowship we love.
Workers I know and respect preach only what Jesus lived and taught with no mention at all of William Irvine, or any other man and give only real appreciation for those who retell in our days things taught in Jesus' day. This faith began in New Testament days, neither in Ireland nor in the U.K.
Roddy M. (Scotland Worker) letter dated 6/1/1995"You sound rather disturbed about something to do with a Man Called William Irvine. I do believe he served God in sincerity and truth at one time. What happened I've never asked because our life doesn't really revolve around any person, but around Jesus? We feel sad at heart if any LOSE out because it's eternal life that is our goal, and we are eager to reach that Goal and help others to reach it too. Even though David knew all the "ins and outs" of Saul, he never once tried to expose him---even if we knew all about others (which I don't and never likely want to) I don't think it would be kind to keep talking.
Of course the soul (William) died in 1948 You mentioned he is gone and the Judge of all the earth will do right by all, but I am sure your faith isn't built on the rights and wrongs of men, but the simple truth in Jesus. We heard at convention about FAITH--God's word--God said it, we believe it and that settles it--gives us a wonderful peace. We rest our hope on what God has said--What God pointed us to.
This settles it once and for all and it brings a great peace. We feel so privileged to know and see what has been revealed to us and this revelation is a rock to us that the very gates of hell Cannot Prevail against. Keep your faith strong in the man Christ Jesus. Tests will come but we must hold fast to what we have attained."
Helen P. (Scotland worker) 6/15/1995"William Irvine Did Not start this Church, it is from beginning, and the Way was just made evidence to him, then."
Karen Tenniswood, 1996From a Letter: Then we are sometimes asked, "Why don't you speak of older ministers of the faith of Jesus in past generations?" God's answer to this question is found in II Cor. 4:5 "For we preach Not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your servants for Jesus sake." So, it is NOT the will of God for US to be preaching about ministers of past generations. We preach CHRIST."
Dan Hilton, 1984"However, regardless of a written record being preserved, truth is truth. If nobody believes it and or ... if everybody believes it. Whether or not a thing is believed in has nothing to do with its correctness. To use parable illustration, the sun rises in the East and sets in the West. That is an established fact of existence. Whether or not people believe the sun rises in the East and sets in the West... in no way changes that established fact of reality... Everybody could believe the sun rises in the West and sets in the East, but this would not make it true.
For anyone to say that what the Bible teaches was started at some certain year since the first century is pitiful Ignorance, and closing the eyes to established facts and truths.
The teachings of the New Testament were started in the first century when God's dear Son was here on the earth. That is those truths were established in a group of believers then. But that is NOT where it started. What God gave through his son was planned before the world began. Matt. 15: 34-35; John 17:24; Acts 3: 20-21; Rom 16: 25-26; I Cor. 2:7; Eph 1:4-5; Titus 1: 2; I Peter 1:18-21 "These truths make very clear that what God... The Son of God... and the Holy Spirit believe in, and what God's true ministers and Christians believed in, was planned in the heart and mind of God before the world began, and we believe the same today. So, it is 100% false for anyone to say that what we Believe was started in some recent year."
Dan Hilton, Letter 11/21/89"We are not following some way founded in the early1900s, but it goes back to Christ. Jesus Himself set it up. Whether it was planted in the 1st Century, the 10th century or the 2Oth century, the message is the same, it produces the same thing." Tharold Sylvester 11/16/83"We are simply a continuation of the Author of Truth." Harry Brownlee, 8/16/79"We are often asked who started this Church?" Heb. 12:2 "Looking unto Jesus the Author and Finisher of our faith." Jesus gave us God's eternal plan of Salvation in its fullness. He is both the Author and Finisher. The way is like a seed, like the wheat seed. It was created at the beginning of the world.
Dan Hilton. 1/1/84 Burlington, WA"Look at it like this.
I have NO idea who my great-great-grandfather was, but I know that he had to exist, because here I am today. We know how life begets life and it is the same spiritually. I do not believe in some form of Apostolic succession that would be like the Catholic Church. People might build their faith on that, but I would like to believe that the friends, and ministry did come down through history that way." Eldon K. 6/4/95"Often we are asked who started our fellowship, our doctrine, ministry?
We are NOT interested in tracing personalities. Some say this was started with Jesus, but it began with God the Father, He gave Jesus the Gospel, the Doctrine. As Thou has sent Me so have I sent them--the same way--God started it all, its the foundation on which we stand."
Ken Pagington 9/22/1996."Don't you believe that something so Precious to God could be Preserved and passed through his Beloved mouthpieces over any age and time? God's way is eternal!" Cheryl L.(Revelation 14: 6-7, 12-20) And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven,
having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every Nation, and Kindred, and Tongue, and People, saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him, for the hour of His judgement has come. ...Here is the Patience of the Saints.
They that Keep the commandments of God, and the Faith of Jesus. And I heard a voice from heaven saying, unto me, "Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord ... And I look, and behold a white cloud (Christ) having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a Sharp Sickle. Another
Angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him, that sat on the cloud, "Thrust in thy Sickle, and Reap: For the TIME is come for Thee to Reap; for the harvest of the Earth is RIPE..." (Matthew 24: 29-31) Immediately After the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not given her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.
And there shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven, and then shall ALL the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And Christ shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heaven to the other. (Revelation 19: 7-8)
Let us be Glad and Rejoice, and give honor to Him, for the Marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should array in Fine Linen, Clean and White, for the Fine Linen, is the righteousness of the Saints.