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Post by kencoolidge on Apr 20, 2011 11:48:57 GMT -5
Noels question Did you get to answer the one regarding whether you considered the 2x2ers as part of the Body of Christ or not?
If that is directed to me I will say this 1st as a worker might answer. God knows who is His
2nd the way I would answer it from my understanding. No group can carte Blanche (unconditional authority; full discretionary power.) be in the Body of Christ. However those within every group under the sun who have been born again are in the body of Christ. J Vernon McGee said they that are born again have certain birthmarks that others in the family can identify them. ken
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2011 12:32:35 GMT -5
People aren't saved by groups at a time. That's probably why it's "the narrow way".
Nor does membership in a group constitute salvation.
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Post by kencoolidge on Apr 20, 2011 13:09:06 GMT -5
People aren't saved by groups at a time. That's probably why it's "the narrow way". Nor does membership in a group constitute salvation. You said it better CD !00% agree Thanks ken
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2011 13:35:16 GMT -5
As well, it would seem to me that Jesus life would teach that, it is hardly within our human capacity to isolate or identify those that God would regard as part of this 'body of Christ' -- Furthermore the foolishness to claim this capacity could very well (possibly) be a disqualifier in itself!!!
To me this is somewhat of the presumptuous risk in categorically denying our moral and spiritual respect from every single member of the Islamic culture, world wide --
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Post by ru on Apr 20, 2011 14:02:50 GMT -5
Did you get to answer the one regarding whether you considered the 2x2ers as part of the Body of Christ or not? When turned around to ask if others are, I think as has been indicated, the F&W reply with "God knows his own".
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Post by eyedeetentee on Apr 20, 2011 14:10:17 GMT -5
Then you guys do not agree with Obama. He believes in collective salvation.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2011 14:21:41 GMT -5
Surely every Christian church goer including 2x2ers believes that he or she is part of the Body of Christ; whether she or he is, only God knows that for sure.
That is why Jesus said that not everyone who says Lord lord will enter. Some will say, but we were doing good works in your name; and what will He say to them? 'depart from me for I know you not.'
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2011 15:26:59 GMT -5
There can be surprizes!!!
Luke 18:10-14 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. [11] The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. [12] I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. [13] And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. [14] I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
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Post by quizzer on Apr 20, 2011 16:09:25 GMT -5
Thanks for starting this thread, Ken! If it works for noels, we can start a thread for each of his questions - you know, the ones we seem to miss now and then.
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Post by kiwi on Apr 20, 2011 16:16:14 GMT -5
Noels question Did you get to answer the one regarding whether you considered the 2x2ers as part of the Body of Christ or not? If that is directed to me I will say this 1st as a worker might answer. God knows who is His 2nd the way I would answer it from my understanding. No group can carte Blanche (unconditional authority; full discretionary power.) be in the Body of Christ. However those within every group under the sun who have been born again are in the body of Christ. J Vernon McGee said they that are born again have certain birthmarks that others in the family can identify them. ken Those in the fellowship are all individuals but have fellowship as a group so as individuals would you consider that we are in The Body of Christ? And what would you consider as being those birth marks?
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Post by kiwi on Apr 20, 2011 16:21:23 GMT -5
Ken, I am very happy that we are in 100% agreement on this matter. Actually we probably have a reasonable amount in common? I have personal convictions of what I understand God's mind and plan to be for a Child of God and his plan of salvation and I try to live according to them. I could not be at peace with God and myself if I did not. I understand and openly admit there are those with the 2x2 fellowship who are quite openly intolerant of anything else. This is not an 'exclusive' trait of 2x2ers. You will find such individuals in groups across the spectrum of Christianity. I do not support 2x2 ers who are of this mindset anymore than you do. I do not promote such a mindset myself. I think anyone who make themselves too 'busy' either 'judging others' in or 'judging other' out of the Body of Christ is possibly getting into 'territory' they would be better to our Almighty God? Howewer we all make judgements; judgements and decisions on what we feel God has revealed to us of his plan of Salvation and his will for our personal lives. As Paul wrote to Timothy- 'Take heed to thyself.' I will close with from this...... 'slammer' 'obnoxious' noels style- I sincerely and honestly feel that there are a number who dedicate hours daily to this board or others on a more irregular basis who could possibly give some more attention to taking to heed to themselves rather than expressing their 'rlghteous indignation' about situations that they have no personal knowledge of and only post according to the partial facts and opinions of other posters that they glean. There are many who do not post in this manner and I AM NOT referring to them. I am realistic, I do not realistically expect thsoe that I refer to to pay even one iota of attention to what I am suggesting. That is fine, this forum is a place of freedom of expression (which I am presently doing) The posts of such as I refer to above is a partial explanation of the statement that I have made- Wrong things being dealt with in a wrong way. Does not such just compound the original? Amen. Christ is and should only be our all.
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Post by quizzer on Apr 20, 2011 16:36:42 GMT -5
Wrong things being dealt with in a wrong way. noels, A whole variety of professing folks and exe-2x2s would love to know what is the right process to deal with the professing problems. Could you outline this for us? Thanks for trying to be part of the solution and not part of the problem, quizzer
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Post by kiwi on Apr 20, 2011 16:42:42 GMT -5
Wrong things being dealt with in a wrong way. noels, A whole variety of professing folks and exe-2x2s would love to know what is the right process to deal with the professing problems. Could you outline this for us? Thanks for trying to be part of the solution and not part of the problem, quizzer Jesus and only Jesus is the right process in the sight of God all else is of man.
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Post by quizzer on Apr 20, 2011 16:48:40 GMT -5
You're in rare form today, kiwi! Is noels suffering from carpal tunnel syndrome? I do hope he's busy with some pressing local matters...
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Post by sharonw on Apr 20, 2011 18:14:18 GMT -5
As well, it would seem to me that Jesus life would teach that, it is hardly within our human capacity to isolate or identify those that God would regard as part of this 'body of Christ' -- Furthermore the foolishness to claim this capacity could very well (possibly) be a disqualifier in itself!!! To me this is somewhat of the presumptuous risk in categorically denying our moral and spiritual respect from every single member of the Islamic culture, world wide -- I'm thinking some of the same thing...my very good friends from Egypt came into the clinic today...she was to see the dr. As the dr. was behind about 4 patients she and I got a good visit...she says to me, "Sharon I really do love you!" I was a bit surprised, but not really perhaps the suddenness of it .....I told her that I loved her and her hsuband and little boy very much. Then she went on to ask where I went to church...I asked her if she knew where this or that landmark was in town and she said yes...then it dawned on her where my church is...she said "Some day I'll come to church to see you." I told her that she would have no hard time finding me for I would be in the choir as one of the lead singers...she just beamed and repeated she'd come there...she asked me do you know what church I go to? I said I assumed it was Muslim and she said, "Yes"....she said how do you know that...I told her I'd guessed that....she was quite distressed to know my days were winding down at the clinic.....they are one of the finest young couples I've ever met.....lovely people!
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Post by kiwi on Apr 20, 2011 19:04:24 GMT -5
You're in rare form today, kiwi! Is noels suffering from carpal tunnel syndrome? I do hope he's busy with some pressing local matters... Not being a little smug are we? no of course not
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Post by Sylvestra on Apr 20, 2011 20:29:09 GMT -5
Ken, I am very happy that we are in 100% agreement on this matter. Actually we probably have a reasonable amount in common? I have personal convictions of what I understand God's mind and plan to be for a Child of God and his plan of salvation and I try to live according to them. I could not be at peace with God and myself if I did not. I understand and openly admit there are those with the 2x2 fellowship who are quite openly intolerant of anything else. This is not an 'exclusive' trait of 2x2ers. You will find such individuals in groups across the spectrum of Christianity. I do not support 2x2 ers who are of this mindset anymore than you do. I do not promote such a mindset myself. I think anyone who make themselves too 'busy' either 'judging others' in or 'judging other' out of the Body of Christ is possibly getting into 'territory' they would be better to our Almighty God? Howewer we all make judgements; judgements and decisions on what we feel God has revealed to us of his plan of Salvation and his will for our personal lives. As Paul wrote to Timothy- 'Take heed to thyself.' I will close with from this...... 'slammer' 'obnoxious' noels style- I sincerely and honestly feel that there are a number who dedicate hours daily to this board or others on a more irregular basis who could possibly give some more attention to taking to heed to themselves rather than expressing their 'rlghteous indignation' about situations that they have no personal knowledge of and only post according to the partial facts and opinions of other posters that they glean. There are many who do not post in this manner and I AM NOT referring to them. I am realistic, I do not realistically expect thsoe that I refer to to pay even one iota of attention to what I am suggesting. That is fine, this forum is a place of freedom of expression (which I am presently doing) The posts of such as I refer to above is a partial explanation of the statement that I have made- Wrong things being dealt with in a wrong way. Does not such just compound the original? noels, you made this statement "Wrong things being dealt with in a wrong way". When you originally used it, it was a criticism of Cherie's website and her way of presenting the information she has found about your church. A number of us have begged you to please explain it in that context, and also to explain how these wrong things should be dealt with instead, in order to make it the "right way". As yet, you have not honored those requests. Beating your breast in the way you have in this thread, isn't answering our questions. Are you ever going to have discourse with us about your ideas of the "right way" to address the issues Cherie has presented? Best regards, Edy
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Post by Sylvestra on Apr 20, 2011 20:31:00 GMT -5
People aren't saved by groups at a time. That's probably why it's "the narrow way". Nor does membership in a group constitute salvation. I think it's the "narrow way" because it is ONLY Jesus and no one else. He is the only way and the only door. E
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Post by sharonw on Apr 20, 2011 21:24:24 GMT -5
People aren't saved by groups at a time. That's probably why it's "the narrow way". Nor does membership in a group constitute salvation. I think it's the "narrow way" because it is ONLY Jesus and no one else. He is the only way and the only door. E And the only Shepherd!
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Post by kencoolidge on Apr 20, 2011 21:57:56 GMT -5
Noels question Did you get to answer the one regarding whether you considered the 2x2ers as part of the Body of Christ or not? If that is directed to me I will say this 1st as a worker might answer. God knows who is His 2nd the way I would answer it from my understanding. No group can carte Blanche (unconditional authority; full discretionary power.) be in the Body of Christ. However those within every group under the sun who have been born again are in the body of Christ. J Vernon McGee said they that are born again have certain birthmarks that others in the family can identify them. ken Those in the fellowship are all individuals but have fellowship as a group so as individuals would you consider that we are in The Body of Christ? And what would you consider as being those birth marks? Kiwi Thanks for the questions and I will try to answer best I can Fellowship can to many be socializing.Christian fellowshipping is not the same as socializing. When the born again believer yields to the Holly Spirits control. There is some difficulty in describing when we have met with others and been blessed and we know it wasn't us in control.. Christian Fellowship without being born again i believe is impossible . So born again believers easily share fellowship in the body of Christ because of being of the same family spirit. Birthmarks are many. Poor in spirit,meek, pure intentions, self examination, helping those in need, giving God the glory not a tradition or group of people, seeking the lost. All the while bearing fruits of thee spirit. Hope this helps fill in some of the blanks
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Post by quizzer on Apr 21, 2011 9:48:51 GMT -5
Not being a little smug are we? no of course not Kiwi, I would be happy if I could be smug. The problem is that I am struggling with disgust. I grew up in the current situation that I am seeing on TMB. Basically, workers are willing to kick people out of the meeting for not agreeing with the workers, while having CSA problems happen under their noses. It was disgusting when I was a child, and it's disgusting now. I am also unhappy that the same remedy in the Worker's Handbook is the same remedy as then. Just pray about your problems, because the friends and workers don't have any problems. Thanking God that society understands the problems that the meetings like to ignore, quizzer
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2011 11:17:41 GMT -5
Edy posted I made this post several days ago to Cherie The answers you seek will be available upon the completion of the above mentioned consultation and implementation of the conclusions we come to. Sorry to have to ask you to wait until that is done. Why not just the unadulterated truth? None of the questions are particularly complex. This seems like all the advice anyone needs to participate here: 1Pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
1Pe 3:16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.If that's not enough, maybe this will be helpful: Jud 1:3 ¶ Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.This might also be helpful: Luk 12:11 And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say:
Luk 12:12 For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.
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Post by Sylvestra on Apr 21, 2011 12:28:46 GMT -5
Edy posted I made this post several days ago to Cherie The answers you seek will be available upon the completion of the above mentioned consultation and implementation of the conclusions we come to. Sorry to have to ask you to wait until that is done. noels, you are so "full of it", it's funny! You are making a political thing out of something that is really quite simple, I'm sure!! If you'd just "honest up", and answer the question, I could support the idea that you're getting real about things. As it is, you are just full of it, and anything you bring forth after this song and dance is easily dismissed as BS!!
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Post by ScholarGal on Apr 21, 2011 14:08:03 GMT -5
With the 'game up' and Edy having got her prize, it is not likely that I will bother to be posting much more, the reason for that given in the post when I responded to Edy. You may see posting on this board as a game, but I can tell you that many people who post here are sincere. After watching your posts over the last few weeks, I can only say that your behavior has truly been a disgrace to workers. There was no need to lie about a wife and grandchildren. You would have had much better reception on this board if you were honest about what you say and what you believe. As a person who attends meetings, I'm really disappointed to hear you say you are a worker. Workers aren't perfect, but I never expected one to pull a stunt like you did on this board.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2011 14:32:36 GMT -5
Noels, I agree with SG. I was going to post something in a similar vein but she did a better job. Yes, some people (if not all of us) here have a clear agenda and they spin everything in that direction, but that does not mean it is a game to them. It shouldn't be about winning or losing but about furthering understanding or knowledge.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2011 15:00:07 GMT -5
Why not just the unadulterated truth? None of the questions are particularly complex. This seems like all the advice anyone needs to participate here: 1Pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: 1Pe 3:16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. If that's not enough, maybe this will be helpful: Jud 1:3 ¶ Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. This might also be helpful: Luk 12:11 And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say: Luk 12:12 For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say. I haven't been following "the game", whatever that is. Of course, we all have some naivety, and I'm not immune from that. I have no idea what you are talking about. Few people "play games" with me on this board......probably because I don't "play games" with people here. I try very hard to make my yea, yea, and my nay,nay. It's the best way to live. I have seen plenty of childish behaviour if that's what you are talking about. The little of what I have read of your posts, you seem to be right in the thick of it. I always try to be real and get real. There are lots of good people here. In fact, the vast majority of them are good people trying to do their best. The way to counteract untruths is with more truth. It really is that simple. You can try and that is to your credit. The truth is that you will not find out the balance of what you don't know......that's just real life. We do the best we can with the knowledge we have and the application of Christian principles to life's problems. If you stick with the truth you will always do well. Just remember though to separate opinion from facts, and there will always be differences in opinion....and that's really ok.....really. This is a discussion board, that happens. Welcome to the real world. Your postings have not been equal to someone of integrity. I suggest you push the "reset" button and start over. You seem like someone who is either very sensitive to the opinions of others or has very little experience in settings which are out of the standard F&W ways and methods. You could grow and be a better help to those around you if you could start again and just be upfront. Believe me, people would begin to respect you. As it is now, you have earned very little of it, if any. No idea. I'm still waiting for you to explain that one. If you were to present yourself with integrity and a genuine spirit of compassion for people, God would be right here. God does what God does and neither you nor I are capable of informing him of his will. The bible indicates that God uses all kinds of people, good or bad, for his purposes. I have no idea what you are talking about. I simply asked for clarification of your unequivocal statement and you have somehow turned it into a competition of winners and losers. That's your choice of course, I presume you are a mature adult and in a position to do so. Frankly, I haven't been following your posts (have read perhaps 10 of your posts) so I'm not sure what there is to agree with or disagree with. I have no idea what your goal is so I can't comment on your effectiveness or ineffectiveness. Believe it or not, most people appreciate your participation here even if they have taken exception to what you have to say or agree with it. You will definitely be welcome back. As I suggested, how about pushing the "reset" button and come back at a later date? Perhaps read here for awhile, figure out what it takes to post with dignity and integrity, find some compassion for all people, then things could work out really well. I appreciate that you have at least given this a try and I suspect you could be helpful to people here.....but there is a learning curve on how to do that.
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Post by Happy Feet on Apr 21, 2011 17:10:22 GMT -5
For some it is like coming into a war zone. You thought we were the enemy and maybe we thought you were the enemy. But I hope we have found a common ground and that is that we are all human and all walking the same journey of life. Some have chosen to walk with God others have chosen not to. Neverless we are struggling to make it in life, to the end goal of meeting our Lord and Savior. I'm sure I will meet many on this board there too.
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Post by Sylvestra on Apr 21, 2011 17:18:31 GMT -5
With the 'game up' and Edy having got her prize, it is not likely that I will bother to be posting much more, the reason for that given in the post when I responded to Edy. You may see posting on this board as a game, but I can tell you that many people who post here are sincere. After watching your posts over the last few weeks, I can only say that your behavior has truly been a disgrace to workers. There was no need to lie about a wife and grandchildren. You would have had much better reception on this board if you were honest about what you say and what you believe. As a person who attends meetings, I'm really disappointed to hear you say you are a worker. Workers aren't perfect, but I never expected one to pull a stunt like you did on this board. I agree Scholargal, that noels would have had a MUCH different reception from me also if he had come here in honesty and seriousness instead of thinking he was so cute with his "meerkat" and his little games. It shows how much he discounted the impact this Board has on people both in and out of his church. I suspected from nearly his beginning here that he was a worker based on something Alexander wrote (can't remember if it was on the open Board or not). The way he has conducted himself here, unfortunately for the F&W, is a good example of the "song and dance" many have described getting when they have tried to have conversations about serious things with various workers. It was the beginning of their true "awakening" to the cultishness of this church. He followed the usual worker path of not answering questions (such as "wrong things in wrong ways", character assassination by facetious exalted names (on Cherie, who doesn't deserve it) and yet he won't 'fess up with the facts he is trying to rebut. I would also encourage noels to come here under his real name, leaving behind his defensiveness of the workers and their methods, to truly question and learn about us and our "reasons". Best regards, Edy
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