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Post by sharonw on Jan 8, 2011 19:16:39 GMT -5
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Post by rational on Jan 8, 2011 21:37:24 GMT -5
U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords was shot, and there were several deaths, though she is apparently alive after brain surgery.....A federal judge died, a 10 y/o girl was killed and about 8 others injured with a total of 5 dying. The senator's husband is a NASA pilot...they're worried he won't be able for the next flight which is several months, though. Anyone from TMB in that area of Arizona? Are you all right? This has to unsettle Arizona people a lot! Our prayers are with you! Probably all part of god's plan. In a case like this what do you pray for? The die has already been cast for the dead and wounded. Do you pray that god's will be done? And if this is god's will then perhaps you are praying that another 6 people get killed.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2011 21:40:41 GMT -5
Rational, I'm assuming Sharonw's prayers are that the God you don't believe in will comfort the people you do believe in.
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Post by rational on Jan 8, 2011 21:50:03 GMT -5
Rational, I'm assuming Sharonw's prayers are that the God you don't believe in will comfort the people you do believe in. That god you speak of is omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscient. Such a god would have known the event was going to happen and had the ability to prevent it. How much comfort can you get from a being that condoned the murder of men, women, and children? This is like asking Timothy McVeigh to provide comfort to the parents of the children killed in the Murrah Building.
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Post by DumSpiroSpero on Jan 8, 2011 22:27:51 GMT -5
Rational, I feel your comments here are pretty crass and offensive. What were you hoping to acheive?
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Post by kiwi on Jan 8, 2011 22:32:23 GMT -5
Rational, I feel your comments here are pretty crass and offensive. What were you hoping to acheive? I agree.
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Post by rational on Jan 8, 2011 22:41:52 GMT -5
Rational, I feel your comments here are pretty crass and offensive. What were you hoping to acheive? Are any of my comments in error? Is the conclusion supported by the premises? Care to explain what you found offensive? I was hoping to make people think about the situation. People thank god when a victim is saved. They forget to thank god when a victim is found tortured and murdered. If it is god's will shouldn't you be thankful for any outcome?
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Post by rational on Jan 8, 2011 22:43:32 GMT -5
Rational, I feel your comments here are pretty crass and offensive. What were you hoping to acheive? I agree. Aside from your not liking what I posted - are there any corrections that I need to make? Is there anything that is not true?
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Post by DumSpiroSpero on Jan 8, 2011 23:18:14 GMT -5
Anyone from TMB in that area of Arizona? Are you all right? This has to unsettle Arizona people a lot! Our prayers are with you! Rational, sharon's prayers were of support and comfort for any from Arizona. I found your comments crass and offensive.
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Post by rational on Jan 9, 2011 1:05:20 GMT -5
Anyone from TMB in that area of Arizona? Are you all right? This has to unsettle Arizona people a lot! Our prayers are with you! Rational, sharon's prayers were of support and comfort for any from Arizona. I found your comments crass and offensive. Did Sharon tell you what the prayers were for or are you guessing? Or perhaps you are Sharon? Or do you channel her? I was guessing that since she had wondered about their safety that she might have been praying that they didn't get whacked as well. So you have supplied your guess of what Sharon was praying for but, other than express your dislike of my post, you have not pointed out why you feel it was crass. What offended you? Did I misrepresent the characteristics of your god? Rather than just lashing out without providing the information that is bothering you why not be specific in your dislikes?
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Post by kiwi on Jan 9, 2011 1:16:50 GMT -5
Rational, I'm assuming Sharonw's prayers are that the God you don't believe in will comfort the people you do believe in. That god you speak of is omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscient. Such a god would have known the event was going to happen and had the ability to prevent it. How much comfort can you get from a being that condoned the murder of men, women, and children? This is like asking Timothy McVeigh to provide comfort to the parents of the children killed in the Murrah Building. Because it is mans doing not Gods. If you want a God as thus you expect then be prepared to be a slave to an others control.
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Post by kiwi on Jan 9, 2011 1:18:09 GMT -5
Aside from your not liking what I posted - are there any corrections that I need to make? Is there anything that is not true? It is not true because you are blaming God for mans doing.
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Post by rational on Jan 9, 2011 1:48:32 GMT -5
Because it is mans doing not Gods. If you want a God as thus you expect then be prepared to be a slave to an others control. If you want to give your god the characteristics of being omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent as well as having absolute morality then you have to accept the fact that knowing about something like the murder of children, having the power to prevent it, and doing nothing is immoral. Either god is in control of the universe or not. But perhaps those are not the characteristics of your god.
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Post by rational on Jan 9, 2011 1:50:02 GMT -5
Aside from your not liking what I posted - are there any corrections that I need to make? Is there anything that is not true? It is not true because you are blaming God for mans doing. Not blaming god for the action. Only saying the action was condoned by god.
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Post by kiwi on Jan 9, 2011 3:29:48 GMT -5
Because it is mans doing not Gods. If you want a God as thus you expect then be prepared to be a slave to an others control. If you want to give your god the characteristics of being omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent as well as having absolute morality then you have to accept the fact that knowing about something like the murder of children, having the power to prevent it, and doing nothing is immoral. Either god is in control of the universe or not. But perhaps those are not the characteristics of your god. I do not have to accept anything but I accept my God for what He is and not what man wishes Him to be.
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Post by kiwi on Jan 9, 2011 3:31:51 GMT -5
It is not true because you are blaming God for mans doing. Not blaming god for the action. Only saying the action was condoned by god. I think you would be very hard pressed to blame God for condoning it considering He hates thus.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2011 5:51:45 GMT -5
Kiwi, they have a lot of right wing loons over there in America. Some of these include my own relatives.
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eh?
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Post by eh? on Jan 9, 2011 8:50:03 GMT -5
Rational, I'm assuming Sharonw's prayers are that the God you don't believe in will comfort the people you do believe in. That god you speak of is omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscient. Such a god would have known the event was going to happen and had the ability to prevent it. How much comfort can you get from a being that condoned the murder of men, women, and children? This is like asking Timothy McVeigh to provide comfort to the parents of the children killed in the Murrah Building. Aren't these the type of inappropriate comments that got a guy from Sweden banned from this board? This thread was about the PEOPLE who were shot, if you feel the need start a different thread about what god/GOD does allow.
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Post by sharonw on Jan 9, 2011 9:11:10 GMT -5
Rational, I'm assuming Sharonw's prayers are that the God you don't believe in will comfort the people you do believe in. Thanks, Hbedrry! You're correct in that assumption.....and rationall, sometimes there can NO sense and reason made out of these things...so please don't take the only thing that people have or I should say MOST people have in times like these and that is faith! Rather a cutting reply to my post of horrifc things, Rational....somehow I don't appreciate it!
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Post by sharonw on Jan 9, 2011 9:13:32 GMT -5
Rational, I feel your comments here are pretty crass and offensive. What were you hoping to acheive? I agree! It's more then crass and offensive, it is totally uncalled for....it's okay with me that Rational doesn't believe in God and Rational cannot understand why God allows these things....he just doesn't realize that things like this happen. I would have preferred IF he couldn't say anything supportive for those suffering, then he should have kept his mouth shut or his fingers still.
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Post by sharonw on Jan 9, 2011 9:18:06 GMT -5
Rational, if you cannot keep you very offensive remarks off of a post offering thoughts of despair and kindness to those hurt, the survivors of those killed and the general public who are very unsettled with anguish at the moment...
Take your comments to another post, Please.
If you don't, I'm going to ask adm. to shove this thread into the arichives in a hurry! I don't appreciate that you continued to "argue" you point throughout the thread! It is VERY UNKIND of you to do so.
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Post by Scott Ross on Jan 9, 2011 9:41:57 GMT -5
Aren't these the type of inappropriate comments that got a guy from Sweden banned from this board?No. Edgar was never banned from the TMB. He deleted his account, and when someone else tried to register his name the name was placed on the list that couldn't be used. Edgar was notified that if he wished to register again his name would be made available to do so. I have emailed with Edgar several times since then. In regards to this thread, I don't believe that God 'allows' these things to happen. Satan is always at work around us, and uses people to do his evil work among us. I don't pretend to know or understand all the whys or whatnots about the way things happen, but I certainly do not blame God for the actions of those who do not have God in their lives. Scott
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lauri
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Post by lauri on Jan 9, 2011 10:14:23 GMT -5
here's my 2 cents... This was a young man with some serious mental issues and a gun. He prob wanted to end his own life and take as many with him as he could.
AZ has some "wild west" gun laws- you can carry a concealed weapon there... I do not understand America's obsession with guns.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2011 10:14:39 GMT -5
Kiwi, they have a lot of right wing loons over there in America. Some of these include my own relatives. We have a few wingless loons over here also.
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Post by slowtosee on Jan 9, 2011 10:31:56 GMT -5
"Meaningless! Meaningless! What does man gain from all his labor...... generations come and generations go but the earth remains forever......all things are wearisome......I devoted myself to study and to explore by wisdom all that is done......for with much knowledge comes much sorrow... the more knowledge the more grief.....like the fool, the wise man too must die.... He has also set ETERNITY in the hearts of mem, yet they cannot fathom what God has done from the beginning....." Just a few thoughts from another wise man, Solomon, who had the same questions and struggles of understanding life and God, as we do. These are NOT new questions and the answers are still the same, as Solomon's conclusions. "Do not be quick with your mouth, do not be hasty in your heart to utter anything before God. God is in heaven and you are on earth, so let your words be few.......do not let your mouth lead you into sin.l....... therefore stand in awe of God........if you see the oppressed..... justice and rights denied, do not be surprised......no one can comprehend what goes on under the sun ......even if a wise man claims he knows, he cannot really comprehend it......... REmember your Creator in the days of your youth......of making many books there is no end and much study wearies the body....Now all has been heard, here is the CONCLUSION of the matter- Fear God and keep his commandments for this is the whole duty of man.
Thank you Jesus, for your gift of Life to believers that we can trust you today and for the future, when we simply cannot comprehend "life" itself. Father, we know the Spirit can comfort those in their great loss, and pray they would feel your Spirit and find rest in YOU, when NOTHING else makes any sense. Amen
Alvin
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Post by Annan on Jan 9, 2011 12:42:00 GMT -5
....and rationall, sometimes there can NO sense and reason made out of these things...so please don't take the only thing that people have or I should say MOST people have in times like these and that is faith! What exactly do you have faith in? A pastor friend of mine says she does not ask God for anything other than the ability to accept his will. Was it God's will that these people died and/or lives are ruined? A friend of mine who lost her only child believes that God used her loss to bring her to Christ. Is this how God works? I remember once discussing Job's loss of his family with my mother. Job was given more children and grandchild after his trials. How does this make up for and ease the pain of the children he lost? Are children replaceable? Does God know our end? If so, was this shooting and the resulting deaths predestined? If these actions were the actions of man, then in what circumstances does God intervene or not intervene? If you are captured and tortured to death and prayed to God to save you from the torture and death and God doesn't save you, what then? Where you at fault somehow or was it God's will for you to be tortured to death? What is a person supposed to believe or have hope or faith in? Seriously. I can't wrap my head around this.
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Post by sharonw on Jan 9, 2011 14:10:01 GMT -5
....and rationall, sometimes there can NO sense and reason made out of these things...so please don't take the only thing that people have or I should say MOST people have in times like these and that is faith! What exactly do you have faith in? A pastor friend of mine says she does not ask God for anything other than the ability to accept his will. Was it God's will that these people died and/or lives are ruined? A friend of mine who lost her only child believes that God used her loss to bring her to Christ. Is this how God works? I remember once discussing Job's loss of his family with my mother. Job was given more children and grandchild after his trials. How does this make up for and ease the pain of the children he lost? Are children replaceable? Does God know our end? If so, was this shooting and the resulting deaths predestined? If these actions were the actions of man, then in what circumstances does God intervene or not intervene? If you are captured and tortured to death and prayed to God to save you from the torture and death and God doesn't save you, what then? Where you at fault somehow or was it God's will for you to be tortured to death? What is a person supposed to believe or have hope or faith in? Seriously. I can't wrap my head around this. Annan, as Alvin pointed out in the previous post, that NONE of us can understand such workings of evil...IF not for faith in God, many of us would feel totally undone at such things as the OP of this thread! One thing I think most people have said is this, Satan will wax more evil and more evil as the time of Jesus' return draws near. The question would be how does Satan know that? We have to remember he once was the royalist of all of God's angel.....There are things he would know that no person would ever know until AFTER the fact. I find it scary when people want to blame God for such things....He doesn't offer to help those who don't want His help. Thus these people do whatever is put into their reprobated minds and end up hurting many people and themselves in the long run. I still wish all of our sincere regards are with the AZ people who are totally undone by this occurance! And those who believe in prayers may offer them up for heavenly assistance.
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Post by eyedeetentee on Jan 9, 2011 14:36:19 GMT -5
Rational and Annan, Christians, of this day anyway, have a faith of convenience and they cannot explain it or choose not to explain it. That is one thing I have learned in this life. When things go in their favor, praise be, amen, hallelujah, roll around in the aisle. When things go against their ideals, it is the fault of man, Satan, or whatever but not God's fault. God is a one-way street to them . . . unless the negative aspect happened to someone who is not 'of God'.
It would be interesting to know the opinion of a Muslim in situations like this. Do they give God credit for all things positive and blame another entity for all things negative? Are there any practicing Muslims on this board? (I really don't want an opinion from an all-knowing Christian who believes he knows the hearts of the Muslims.)
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