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Post by Maud on Jan 13, 2007 13:16:37 GMT -5
If I lwas collapsed in a gutter having consumed a bottle of whiskey and a stranger suggested I needed to ease up on the drink I would take that as discernment - not judgment. In fact I would take it as sound advice, even if the longing for another glass was overwhelming.
Sometimes the truth hurts and I speak from experience....
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Post by you bet on Jan 13, 2007 19:26:35 GMT -5
If you were collapsed in the gutter having consumed that much booze you wouldn't know discernment from shinola. ;D You obviously aren't knowledgeable about alcoholism or other addictions. Perhaps you would have more compassion and understanding if you volunteered at a non-profit agency. There are lots of places where your help would be welcomed and you would be amazed at how your heart would be touched.
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Post by ali on Jan 13, 2007 20:36:54 GMT -5
The Bible talks about fasting. Do any of you do this?? What do you know about it from a Christian perspective? A study has now been published suggesting that DNA damage in humans can be lessened by long term calorie restriction. Heilbronn LK et al (JAMA 2006;295:1539-48) report results from the first phase of the Comprehensive Assessment of the Long Term Effects of Reducing Intake of Energy. (CALERIE).
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Post by juliette on Jan 13, 2007 20:47:06 GMT -5
I don't know if this topic has ever come up specifically in its own thread, but if someone with greater knowledge of translations and word origins would be willing, I think it would be profitable to have a discussion about the scriptural difference (if there is one?) between judging (discerning one thing from another) and being judgmental (condemning). I think this would be an excellent topic. I've noticed people using verses that speak of judgement (my interpretation.. discernment) as an excuse for judging/condemning attitudes and behaviors.
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Post by hrl on Jan 13, 2007 22:14:44 GMT -5
I have thought about this many times but never have the "guts" to bring it up! I believe that being overweight is dishonorable to your temple just as much as drugs,cigarettes etc.....anything that harms your wellbeing. I don't know much about the 7th day adventists but I seem to recall that they put some emphasis on diet/exercise moreso than others.. There was a show on TV one time about their life expectancy being 10 years longer but I don't know how accurate that is. I have only ever heard one person bring this up...a Christian woman said to me re. the Pentecostal women she knew "they're giving me a hard time about my hair and they're all overweight!". She certainly felt that they were being hypocritical re. "defiling" their temples. This is an interesting topic...hope some others weigh in on it! Good points Ali and by many others 'weighing in' on this.
There are many FACETS, I believe, in how we exemplifiy the "Chist within", and one of those is how we treat our bodies, which includes gluttony and/or life style habits that lead to obesity. Or unhealthy vs. healthy lifestyle. I am not talking just a little overweight here or on the border of what is acceptable BMI or body fat %. [also consider that many drug addicts put on weight when they "stop using". ... ...]
However, just as we should have compassion for drug addicts and other kinds of addicts, I also believe we need to have compassion for people who have issues with obesity. True, the factors that lead to obesity are lifestyle, eating habits AND genetics. True, people who smoke or use other substances probably are not as overweight because their appetite is decreased. I also agree that eating healthy and not too much plus staying active are key ingredients to 'weight managment'.
True, cultural / attitudes from parents impact lifestyle and eating habits.
There is simply much more to it than basic overindulgence, just as there are more factors to being a skinny coke b_tch , than just using coke, which decreases appetite and stimulates metabolism. [Personally, I would rather be a little overweight than addicted to a chemical that also keeps my weight down.] Studies have shown that it is actually BETTER to be a little overweight than underweight.
As far as the 'truth' is concerned, if we are gonna have convictions about hair and dress and make-up , etc, then what about the care of the temple for our souls, that God gave us?
But, to be strong within yourself and true to God, alone with God, it shouldn't matter what anyone else is doing, how their hair/clothing is or whether they are 'fat'. We need to concern ourselves with our own personal issues. Someone might make you feel like you have to look a certain way, and yet, they really are in no position to be giving out advice; as they might be a very poor example of what it really means to have CHRIST WITHIN. Consider all it might take for an alcoholic to get through one day without a drink. Or all it might take for an overeater to get through one day without eating too much food.
I don't see too many obese workers; and I think the number or obese 'friends' is a reflection of American society in general.
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Post by firstborn on Jan 13, 2007 22:17:46 GMT -5
I once heard a interview from a man in a third world country say..
It would be nice to live in a country where the poor people are fat!
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Post by hrl on Jan 13, 2007 22:34:16 GMT -5
I don't know if this topic has ever come up specifically in its own thread, but if someone with greater knowledge of translations and word origins would be willing, I think it would be profitable to have a discussion about the scriptural difference (if there is one?) between judging (discerning one thing from another) and being judgmental (condemning). I think this would be an excellent topic. I've noticed people using verses that speak of judgement (my interpretation.. discernment) as an excuse for judging/condemning attitudes and behaviors. Juliette, IMO, there is a vast difference between condemning others and using your own personal 'judgement' as in: "judge for yourSELF".......what is appropriate............, not as in: judge for others what is acceptable for others. This tells me that we are our own best judge or what it is that God convicts us of and that no one else can TRULY condemn us; IMO, no human has the power to condemn others to eternal damnation. Only God has that kind of power.
It is NOT condemnation to decide for yourSELF that you don't want be around or partake of certain kinds of things. That is why I don't take smoke breaks with my co-workers who smoke. Even though there are smokers I love dearly, I won't to inhale their second hand smoke if given the choice. Nor do they expect me to..........
If someone wants to bow out of something they don't approve of, that is totally their JUDGEMENT/DISCERNMENT to do so for whatever reason they feel convicted of. If someone offers me candy and I refuse, I don't think they are usually offended by that. However, if a pusher on the street offers to sell me drugs and I refuse, my safety may be at risk. If someone offers me a drink and I refuse, it's no big deal, is it? I someone offers me sex and I refuse, well, that could have a number or reactions,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,yikes! But I have to judge for myself what I should or shouldn't do; what I should or shouldn't partake of. If I go to God for guidance or go to the Scriptures or go to Godly people for advice, that is going to impact what kind of judgements I make for myself.
Bottom line, we all have the right to refuse to partake of things and we have to right to NOT accept certain things for ourselves; the right to make choices. We live with those choices. NO one else.
May we live our lives in a thankful manner.
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Post by ali unlogged on Jan 13, 2007 22:48:22 GMT -5
All this talk about weight got me on the treadmill. Thanks Maud. Now...if I can just keep it up..ugh..
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Post by nitro on Jan 13, 2007 22:51:33 GMT -5
I once heard a interview from a man in a third world country say.. It would be nice to live in a country were the poor people are fat! LOL So true if you want the good healty food it cost extra. Junk food is cheap.
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Post by Yanna on Jan 13, 2007 23:50:30 GMT -5
I once heard a interview from a man in a third world country say.. It would be nice to live in a country were the poor people are fat! LOL So true if you want the good healty food it cost extra. Junk food is cheap. Sure enuff! Uh--it's is nice to live in a country where poor people are fat, unfortunate that poor people are fat, though. It would not be very nice to live in a country where poor people are thin and live in squalor.
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Post by unfortunately on Jan 14, 2007 3:23:12 GMT -5
But the truth is we do have people who are poor and live in squalor - and danger.
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Post by cappyunplugged on Jan 14, 2007 6:21:50 GMT -5
I have a question that may be off base regarding overweight and smoking s I also veiw the body as a temple in the sense of keeping healthy ,in my former marriage or marri-arrge as Captn Jack sparrow would say, I always kept myself in shape as a mark of love and to look good for my wife (this took effort), in the hope that she would also keep herself looking attractive to me ( as much as is possible with the natural ageing process an all) however she did not see it this way and kept putting on the weight and smoking (on the sly as she was professing also) an I was told in marrige counsalling that I should just accept her as she was or was growing to become , but to me part of a marri-arrge is to respect each other, this may mean physical effort, I liked to drink however I did not in order to respect her wishes , Why should a Man not expect His wife to look as good as she can, Why should I have had to accept the PC attitude that to want my wife to take care of herself and be fit and toned( note I do not say slim I did not expect a run way model) was to be shallow. Have I not a right as a Husband to be as phyically attracted to my wife as she was to me , isnt a marrige a partnership with consideration to the needs and disires of both at least thats what I get from scripiture, I say this, as i know that there are other men in marriages who feel trapped because they are no longer attracted to their partner but cannot say anything due to being thought shallow or hurtfull or selfish, I am fortunate in my 2nd marrige now in that my wife thinks the same as me and keeps herself looking great ( that does not mean that if she became incapacitated in anyway that I would stop loving her) to me if you are capable of making the effort , then it should be done , I do think that being overweight unless it was an unavoidable medical condition, is gluttony, I would not call someone a glutton though as I do not know what there medical circumstance was
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Post by Maud on Jan 14, 2007 7:44:37 GMT -5
The above post is a good one - I believe very much that women should not let themselves go once they have 'snared' the catch...
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Post by Yanna on Jan 14, 2007 18:51:41 GMT -5
The above post is a good one - I believe very much that women should not let themselves go once they have 'snared' the catch... I agree. I don't think anyone should let themselves go, regardless if they are married or not ; and my conviction about this is based more on treating the 'temple' that God has given us for our souls with the proper care. Having a nice body for your spouse and you (both of you benefit) is a fabulous addition to caring for our bodies as a living temple; holy unto God. If one is NOT married, then having a healthy body is a bonus anyways. Good health is something!
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Post by cappyunplugged on Jan 15, 2007 6:12:04 GMT -5
I would also add that IMHO being obsessed with fitness to the exclusion of others is also gluttony, as is any obsessive desire, as they say a glutton for punishment Hmmm does that include getting married twice ;D
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Post by lovedoes on Jan 15, 2007 17:22:54 GMT -5
I would also add that IMHO being obsessed with fitness to the exclusion of others is also gluttony, as is any obsessive desire, as they say a glutton for punishment Hmmm does that include getting married twice ;D Well, let's just agree that there is usually a healthy balance in most everything we do. One can take anything a little too far, I suppose. But there is also that grave danger of being LUKEWARM. I believe we are given certain 'gifts' from God that He wants us to use in positive ways and that we can be positive role models for others in doing so. This can apply to just about everything in life that one would seek to endeavor; whether it be to become a top notch surgeon or a top notch chef. When I was a kid I didn't understand that Bible passage which says, "Whatever you do, do it heartily as unto the Lord". .... .... Used to think that meant just being hardy in the professing 'way' of serving Him. But now I see it different. I see it more like this: "Whatever it is you do, give it your best!" Put your heart into it. If you're gonna sing a song, put your soul in to it. Belt it out! If you're gonna run a race, give it your best; don't hold back. These activities have spiritual parallels, IMO. Okay, enough from me for now..............
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todd
Senior Member
Posts: 270
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Post by todd on Jan 26, 2007 19:51:59 GMT -5
I may be fat but i still tie my shoestrings. I do fast however - how fast to the refrigertor. Bless ya all lol
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Post by kathy lewis on Jan 27, 2007 12:15:42 GMT -5
I am not an expert on the weight issue. I have been skinny or thin most of my life but I do know it isn't as much about what I eat but because of genetics. I am not critical of heavier people because I have observed that some of them eat less than I do. There is another factor in the weight issue besides genetics and that is emotional. I think the best advice I have seen comes from the Flylady found at www.Flylady.net . Flylady has written a book titled Body Clutter. It is an excellent source of information about how our childhood experiences and attitudes control our eating habits. It is partly book, partly journal. She asks questions to make you remember exactly why you developed an appetite for certain things. Women just rave about how much she has helped them, emotionally and physically. I rave about Flylady because of how she helped me learn to keep my house tidy. Try her, you'll like her.
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Jul 4, 2007 8:54:32 GMT -5
I just had to bump this. Being fairly new here, I have just been picking random pages and reading...and this one really got to me because I have been overweight since I was a teenager. I have currently been trying to lose, but it is HARDDDDD. I quit smoking about six months ago, and I find weight loss nearly (NEARLY) as difficult as that was...it is it's own addiction. I'm not proud to admit that...it's rather embarrassing really..but it is. My biggest problem is that I've been under a great deal of stress for the last 10 years (I'm NOT kidding...rare breaks...but a LOT of stress..and the last five years haven't improved much over the five before) and I am an emotional eater...I think that is my greatest problem. I don't eat any more junk food than anyone else....I LOVE good food...veggies,etc. ....I don't know...I just munch,munch, munch all the time. Since I quit smoking, it has gotten worse as I substitute for the cigarette. I'm happy I quit smoking, but I wasn't happy about the 20 pounds I put on! There HAS to be some willpower, yes...but I wish sometimes (not to be too cliche here, but I HAVE to say this) people would look at ME...at the person inside (not that I'm some HUGE thing...I just am NOT happy with how I look.) instead of thinking..ohhhh..sheeeeee could stand to lose some weight. You know? I mean, when I lose the weight and feel more confident and look better...it's still gonna be ME in here...yanno?? ...and people might also consider that a LOT of people are emotional eaters...so, even though they *should* be watching what they eat, there may be/have been a lot of things going on in their lives that are/were really stressful...so it might be nicer to offer them an ear...or a shoulder to lean on instead of thinking such judgmental thoughts about them. Rant off...I just had to get all that out. Thanks! M.
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Post by justamom on Jul 4, 2007 12:06:58 GMT -5
M.... I am trying to lose some extra pounds that I put one while on some medication. I found a wonderful website that helps you count the calories that you intake, has some wonderful low calorie recipes, puts a fitness program in place and has message boards for support and musch much more and it is all FREE!! Check it out at www.sparkpeople.comGood Luck...
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Post by selah on Jul 5, 2007 11:16:51 GMT -5
thanks justamom...I'm now a Sparkperson! Wow...there are so many resources there, and helpful tools too! I'm just picking through and using what I believe will be helpful. Great site....and 100% FREE! Excellent!
I'm browsing for a team on the site...but may start one of my own....just thinkin' on it. Would be fun to be on the same team, yes?
Blessings, Linda
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Post by justamom on Jul 5, 2007 12:15:29 GMT -5
Linda, It is a great site... and yes there are tons of information on the site.... I sent you a private message letting you know what my nickname is on there so if you run across a post that is mine you can see my spark page...
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Post by TMS on Jul 5, 2007 21:12:53 GMT -5
AS AN AMERICAN WHO HAS LIVED IN 3 different countries for an extended period of time, one in Asia, one in Europe and one in Australia, I know for a fact that the reason 95% of the obese Americans are the way they are is the following:
1. They eat too many calories. 2. they dont exercise enough.
How can I be so judgemental? Because I am an American and am 35 years old. I have lived overseas and travelled to over 20 countries around the world. Americans are the fattest people in the world and also some of most sedentary.
The friends are the same. They drive everywhere, do not exercise and eat too much processed food, fast food, frozen food and sugar laden food. Americans can blame it on the media, the government or whatever, but Americans are fat because they live the lifestyle they do.
the 5% of obesity is related to medication and other issues..but 95% is because we eat too much and eat the wrong types of foods.
I can judge Americans. I am one. I live in the USA about 10 months out of the 12 months per year. In my city you go into Wal-mart and its full of fatties. You go into any restaurant and its full of fatties.
I am about 8 lbs overweight. Why? Because I eat and drink too much. My mom is 5'5 inches and weighs about 170 lbs. Is it because of her metabolism? No, she eats too much. She eats about 3,000 calories per day. That is too much.
Sorry folks. Amerians eat too much and don't do any exercise...that is the most of them.
Its a epidemic.
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Post by TMS on Jul 5, 2007 21:24:20 GMT -5
Interesting topic. Gluttony is one of the SEVEN DEADLIES, folks. But here's a question: what is gluttony, really? Is obesity really tied to gluttony? Perhaps some of those who have studied the original greek could help us out here? But if obesity IS tied to gluttony (other than for reasons of medical issues, etc.), then I think this should be an issue of real concern to those who believe the bible is inspired and infallible. But again, is obesity necessarily an indication of gluttony? Questions, questions, questions. IN MY OPINION, OBESITY IS A RESULT OF GLUTTONY, ESP IF YOU ARE OBESE WHICH IS CLINICALLY 100 LBS OVERWEIGHT OR MORE. IF YOU ARE LIKE 10-30 LBS OVERWEIGHT, I AM NOT SURE THAT WOULD BE GLUTTONY, BUT IF YOU ARE 100 LBS OVERWEIGHT OR MORE, IT DID NOT GET THAT WAY BECAUSE YOU ATE LETTUCE LEAVES ALL DAY. I WATCHED A SHOW ON TLC ABOUT THE FATTEST MAN IN THE WORLD, HE WEIGHED 1200 LBS AND COULD NOT WALK FOR OVER FIVE YEARS AND LAID IN BED ALL DAY AND ATE LIKE 8,000-12,000 CALORIES PER DAY AND HE HAD TO sh- AND PEE IN BED. THIS IS AN OBVIOUS FORM OF GLUTTONY...IN AMERICAN WE CALL IT FOOD ADDICTION, IN THE BIBLE IT WAS CALLED GLUTTONY...WHATEVER NAME YOU WANT TO CALL IT, ITS AN ISSUE. Gene
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Post by selah on Jul 5, 2007 23:19:45 GMT -5
No need to apologize...you're stating the truth...for at least most of the overweight North American people. Of course there are exceptions...but most obesity is a result of indulgence....the sin of gluttony. I know that sounds so harsh...but how can we ever overcome what we don't acknowledge? I'm so there. I'm acknowledging...I need to make some changes, and I am. Prayer is a powerful resource, because God hears and desires to help us overcome the sin in our lives. Sometimes I think of it as vandalizing the temple of God. I'm not trying to beat myself up or anyone else either....just simply trying to come out of denial for awhile...long enough to trust God for transformation in this part of my life. 40 lbs. to go by January, 2008. Trying to live a new healthy lifestyle. Blessings, Linda
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Jul 7, 2007 2:55:08 GMT -5
That's great, Linda! More power to you...perhaps I'll join you in your quest..... M. *she says as she puts down the chips and stops hoping that she has a bad thyroid* ;D
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Jul 7, 2007 3:49:09 GMT -5
That's it. I just decided. I'm going on a crash diet for the first 20 pounds. I know how unhealthy it is, I know it's bad...but I just do NOT care at this point...I am SOOOOO SICK of being FAT! ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!
(*sorry everyone...I HAD to get that out...I"m just so tiredddddddddd of being the fat girl!)
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2007 7:33:28 GMT -5
Post #78 by TMS offers a blunt and probably accurate assessment of the obesity problem in North America. In biblical terms obesity is related to two "sins": gluttony AND sloth.
Modernity has made both of these far greater temptations than at any other time in history. Food is abundant and cheap, and most tasks and jobs are accomplished with little physical exertion. Our wealth and tech advancements are conspiring to kill us it seems.
While wanting to look good for others or viewing our bodies as God's temple are reasonably good motivators to keep fit, I believe the most powerful motivator is, as in many other things, self preservation. Poor health and short life goes hand in hand with obesity, and if that isn't a good motivator, then we are on a sort of slow suicide mission. I suppose the fact that there is no immediate and visible connection between a couple of Twinkies and poor health that people carry on with their Twinkies.
Regarding perception, wanttobewithgod, you mentioned the desire for people to see the real you rather the weight stuff. I'm not sure how most of society view obese persons, but when I see someone significantly overweight, I don't see "ugly", but I do assume some sort of emotional challenges. While that isn't always an accurate assumption (I know some beautifully well adjusted overweight people), there is very often a connection.
No doubt weight is more of a challenge for some people than others due to genetics, but if we have any sort of self loathing challenge and a propensity to gain weight easily, we're in trouble. Add to that an abundance of available food and the couch potato temptation, it's a deadly mix. Good luck in your endeavour to lose weight. Do it for yourself because you're worth it!
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