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Post by dgaab on Jun 4, 2009 14:18:57 GMT -5
Scott Ross wrote, "For wanting the whole issue to go away, I am surprised that it is kept alive by so many."
I agree 100%. Isn't it like continually poking a festering sore and, if it's one's own experience, it only serves to prolong the healing process. Fictitious user-names or not.
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Post by Scott Ross on Jun 4, 2009 14:33:32 GMT -5
The family is not stupid. Why would they give their email to anyone that put out information about them or their family. That seemed very judgmental and hurtful. Many comments are put on the board and anyone that wants to show their support can do so by putting them on the board. Even the article about the family was FINALLY removed from Wings but nothing was put on it to let anyone the outcome. Rebuttals should be put on as much as accusations. If an article is written about the outcome when everything is settled, are you going to put that on Wings?The only information that was put out were the news articles which were pulled off of WINGS. The same articles are posted here on the TMB, and it is well documented here that the younger kids are back with the adoptive parents. Since the TMB is where the majority of the people read, it should take care of the issue. We would have to repost the articles on WINGS in order to make any kind of statement about it, and that doesn't make much sense to do. At most all that could be posted is that the 4 younger children have been returned to the family by court order. That is pretty well known by everyone involved by now. WINGS is not a discussion forum such as this, and I would be willing to bet that most who read on WINGS also read on the TMB. It was then determined that there were many lies told and all those charges which were pages were all dropped and found untrueWhich court appearance are you referring to here? Isn't this the court appearance when the twins were remanded to the forensic center for evaluation? The family is not stupid. Why would they give their email to anyone that put out information about them or their family. That seemed very judgmental and hurtful. It may come as a big shock, but I certainly never posted the things which I heard in regard to this case. I simply posted the newspaper articles. In fact, I had posts removed which were crossing the line in regard to this case. At no time were any of my posts meant to harm the parents. Quite the opposite actually. I tried to get everyone to stick to the known facts which were publicly available. Pretty obvious that it didn't work, as now we see some posting accusatory posts without proof against Jerome and others. As always, I say let the courts finish their rulings and then post the court findings. As it is, a few of the posters are bordering on libel by their posts accusing others of committing a crime without producing any kind of facts which are verifiable. It is my understanding that these are being copied for future use if needed. Many comments are put on the board and anyone that wants to show their support can do so by putting them on the board. The comments sent to me came from some people who are just regular professing folks. They are not registered members here, and contacted me by email. Others wanted to show support and did not want to post here where their comments could be picked apart by the other posters. All of these people thought that I showed a fair manner in my posts and would pass on emails (or an email address) without making it a public issue. I do things for people quite often 'off board'. If an article is written about the outcome when everything is settled, are you going to put that on Wings?Probably not as explained above, but I would be happy to post a court document here on the TMB showing the final outcome. In fact, I have asked for the court documents showing the outcome of the kids being returned, but haven't seen it yet. Scott
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Post by jhjmr on Jun 4, 2009 19:16:38 GMT -5
When the whole thing started, the twins turned in their accusations to the police, the police went to the house and took the four children. All of this happened without any questioning. You have so long that you have to go to court, so the court called a hearing and I believe it was in two days after this all started. That is when the twins were questioned, or one twin, and the original charges were dismissed. But, by now the state has their clutches on four children that are in foster care and you have to fight to get them back. It was just that cut and dried. It was quite awhile before the twins turned in more accusations with the two workers. Always, the four of them together. The twins didn't go to court for lying charges until quite a while after the four children were returned to the parents. Desperation just got out of control and many stupid things followed. But, that hearing was when the girls were to be sent and tested for competency and etc. Everyone knows what followed. That was almost a year after they turned in the first accusations. In Sept. 2007 was when they had a hearing and the first accusations were thrown out.
The whole thing will NOT go away until everything is corrected. You have a family that has been hurt that is shunned and crucified. You have people that have gotten nothing but grief for being accused falsely. And you still have people going around pretending that the girls don't lie. So, when all the pcs. of the puzzle is in place, everyone will know that everything was taken care of. As far as the religion and the spirit of people, God will have his say. As they say, sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me. Perhaps Jerome could take a page out of President Clinton's book. Ask for forgiveness and plead your case and be humble. He wasn't thrown out because of his confession and asking for the people to forgive. And he definitely humbled himself.
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White Knight
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Post by White Knight on Jun 7, 2009 19:59:21 GMT -5
What if the allegations against workers is found to be false? What if the allegations were invented to make trouble? What if the allegations against that family are found embellished at the prompting of CPS? Wait for all facts------Then cast your lots
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White Knight
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Post by White Knight on Jun 7, 2009 20:06:14 GMT -5
Mental and physical abuse is one thing, which is wrong if the accusations is true, but sexual abuse from the ministers (the workers are not ministers ( remember they are only people as you and I who are suppose to be preaching the bible to save other people) committing sexual acts with the children of the people who are professing (or pretending to be professing) is unbelievable. When the head overseer (who believes he is the pope) sends these workers to other states to cover up their wrong-doings is just as guilty as they are. Besides, I believe the workers (or as the Court Judge called them so-called ministers) are suppose to be saving people and not sitting in the court room on a physical abuse case. Am I right to say the bible quotes as the overseer being the elder? Then why is Jerome called the overseer. Maybe for his so-called ministers. I also know that the 2 Russian girls (that Jerome has placed in a home with a couple) was being cloned to be workers. Is the religion so hard up for workers that Jerome is cloning people to be workers even if they are mentally disturbed? George Walker (who thought he was starting a great religion) would drop dead from all of this if he wasn't already dead! Many things have been printed on the case, but the real facts are still left out. Let's get Jerome on the stand in the court. Real facts may be known then.
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White Knight
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Post by White Knight on Jun 7, 2009 20:14:10 GMT -5
RE: Being in the presence of Department of Human Service and Child Protection Service officials, judges, children defense lawyers on occasions, we have observed that they are people of intergrity and wisdom and have a deep concern and care for the welfare of children, upholding the laws of the land to protect them. We are very thankful that such people are in the places of responsibilty. No wonder Paul the apostle in his writings in the New Testiment encourged the poeple on several occations to have respect toward our leaders and to pray "For kings and all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.' ! Timothy 2:1-3 also in Romans 13:1-4 'Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers'....' For he is a minister of God to thee for good.' Sincerely your brother in Christ, Jerome Frandle JF was praising them then, now he is cursing them be cause this point was proven false. Why is /was the injustice cause by others toward the family and others not rectified?
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Post by ronhall on Jun 7, 2009 20:22:07 GMT -5
Mental and physical abuse is one thing, which is wrong if the accusations is true, but sexual abuse from the ministers (the workers are not ministers ( remember they are only people as you and I who are suppose to be preaching the bible to save other people) committing sexual acts with the children of the people who are professing (or pretending to be professing) is unbelievable. When the head overseer (who believes he is the pope) sends these workers to other states to cover up their wrong-doings is just as guilty as they are. Besides, I believe the workers (or as the Court Judge called them so-called ministers) are suppose to be saving people and not sitting in the court room on a physical abuse case. Am I right to say the bible quotes as the overseer being the elder? Then why is Jerome called the overseer. Maybe for his so-called ministers. I also know that the 2 Russian girls (that Jerome has placed in a home with a couple) was being cloned to be workers. Is the religion so hard up for workers that Jerome is cloning people to be workers even if they are mentally disturbed? George Walker (who thought he was starting a great religion) would drop dead from all of this if he wasn't already dead! Many things have been printed on the case, but the real facts are still left out. Let's get Jerome on the stand in the court. Real facts may be known then. So now am I to understand that to become a worker, one needs to be cloned?
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White Knight
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Post by White Knight on Jun 7, 2009 21:32:41 GMT -5
Out of every charge that has been made against all of these people, including the parents, not one charge has ever been signed by the judge or prosecutor. People sure do like to think the worse of people. That is what is wrong with this whole mess. More fun to gossip and try to keep the pot boiling than to just feel sorry for some very disturbed girls that were misled by two sister workers to try and prove a horrible point. The whole family will have a lot to rebuild and the church is now shown for what it is. Judgmental, fault finding and unloving and uncaring. Common sense would have let anyone know a long time ago that things were really screwed up and everyone had better examine that great love they are suppose to have each other. Seem more like a cut throat love to me. Shame on all of you accusers!!
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White Knight
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Post by White Knight on Jun 7, 2009 21:33:31 GMT -5
No matter how hard you try to defend the two sister workers, they did influence the twins immensely. The abuse case was dropped at the first hearing because upon questioning by the court, it was determined immediately that there were many lies being told. After that, the workers had the girls write more, but that failed to get any attention. Then the report went to sexual abuse and if you read the report turned in to the police, the one twin writes to the workers, I did the report you asked me to do. This is all in black and white and if people don't want to believe it, that is their problem. The false accusations that were made against so many people then just snowballed out of control. White Knight is upset and rightfully so. So are many many more. Mind you, this is workers that are named as well as married men and single men and families are affected. No one seems to be to concerned when it was just the parents that were being raked over the coals, but when it started to involve other people, it surely got everyones attention. The parents have NEVER been charged with one charge. In fact no one has been charged with any of the many charges that have been made. It would have seemed that the workers would have known when one paper they turned into the police was full of lies, they would have backed off. But, yes, they did encourage more charges. These girls before this started were at Carsonville convention, happy and with their family. No injuries, no knocked out teeth and well kept. But they were 19 and we all that have known teenagers know how things can get out of control when you don't want to listen to something. Other than one girl being questioned at the beginning, no one has been on a stand. The court hearings are just hearings with the judge and court appointed people talking. The judge has been very stern with his rulings so far and does not appreciate anyone interfering. It has not been a closed court room. So, the judge has definitely seen the 2 X 2 group in the court room. Religious leaders most usually are there for moral support and love and help. Not this vindicative bunch. What a disgrace of a religion. It is in a shamble and will continue to corrode as long as things as done the way they have. I do not think God will have mercy one those that destroy others.
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White Knight
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Post by White Knight on Jun 7, 2009 21:37:34 GMT -5
Now we are getting to the big problem. Yes, the overseer has been in every court hearing. Yes, the overseer has questioned the children. Yes the overseer is [potential libel removed]. That is one of the reasons Scott told us that the police has the overseers letter changed. He should not nor anyone else be questioning victims of abuse. The police doesn't need to try and sort out ideas implanted by others. [potential libel removed]. Who is taking the fall for everything is to be seen. It seems there is to much of an interest in things to try and prove innocent people guilty as to divert attention as to where it maybe should be.
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White Knight
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Post by White Knight on Jun 7, 2009 21:39:02 GMT -5
:Now there is one to think about. Why aren't the workers and overseer charged with obstructing justice. When they are suppose to be the innocent people standing by, why are they the ones that trying to call the shots. In more than two court hearings, one sister worker wrote notes and had them past up to the prosecutor. Funny isn't it. Whom are they trying to influence. This is a fact as I was an eye witness to this. I was wondering how the workers would like it if there were notes being written and passed around during their sermons. Disrespectful I'm sure. But it sure is a known fact that they are trying to obstruct justice. They are going to answer to that I'm sure before this is over.
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White Knight
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Post by White Knight on Jun 7, 2009 21:51:00 GMT -5
I have sat in many court rooms and I didn't know they had sides for the accuser support and a side for the "guilty or not guilty". l have always seen everyone sit where they could find a seat. If you aren't in the court room for a case on you, usually you are there for observation. The Judge doesn't know who you are and really doesn't care!! The Judge certainly is not interested in his audience. When you have 2X2 members sitting on both sides, what would you call that? In other words, the 2X2's on the left side shows a unjust spirit towards the 2X2's on the right side. The Judge is a very observative person who picks up the unjust spirits in the audience. The Judge could definitely say there is strife in the religion amongst its members. Christians are taught by the Bible to stand against wrong doing. Court room guest's post makes it sound as though kids showed signs of abuse. May be the people on the " left" side were standing up for kids who had been abused by the mom and dad on the" right" side. Kid abuse is clearly wrong. Guest you are pretty much saying you don't think any abuse happened. why hasn't court given the kids back if they don't think anything wrong. Now what do you have to say? ??//Since they're back home!!!!
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Post by bandtroll on Jun 8, 2009 12:15:48 GMT -5
Now what do you have to say? ??//Since they're back home!!!! ( I see you've been re-reading all the old threads too ) OFF TOPIC I notices that "Registered Guest" shows they have -0- posts yet when I search their profile I come up with almost 300 posts (before the system chokes) ?? And that as I'm typing it is showing as "guest" not "registered guest." Is this a 'catch all' account?
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White Knight
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Post by White Knight on Jun 8, 2009 19:30:08 GMT -5
Now what do you have to say? ??//Since they're back home!!!! ( I see you've been re-reading all the old threads too ) OFF TOPIC I notices that "Registered Guest" shows they have -0- posts yet when I search their profile I come up with almost 300 posts (before the system chokes) ?? And that as I'm typing it is showing as "guest" not "registered guest." Is this a 'catch all' account? It's called in stealth mode
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White Knight
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Post by White Knight on Jun 8, 2009 19:33:40 GMT -5
bandtroll Senior Member member is offline
Joined: Sept 2008 Posts: 490 Re: Michigan « Reply #137 on Sept 24, 2008, 6:49pm » ________________________________________ I'm trying to understand why the twins are in the hospital? "Why now?" Or have they been in the hospital ever since the investigator said 'no more'?
“Does anyone have dates on this case?” Yes
“When did the twins start accusing people?” IN November 07 of sexual misconduct/assault “When did they first go to the police?” September, 4th, 2007 @1:15pm. “How many times did they go to the police?” To my understanding, there are more than 7 very large reports files by them. Under the heading COMPLAINANT: INTERVEIW COMPLAINANT: “When did the investigator say 'no more'?” In around March/ April 2008 “When were charges filed against the twins?” June 2008 “When did they go into the hospital?” By court order 9-19- 2008 “And their court date was 9/19?” 2008 all this has already been posted. WK
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Post by rjs on Jun 8, 2009 20:18:23 GMT -5
Tens of thousands of folks have viewed the various Michigan threads! WOW! When will it ever end? Like most issues in the "truth", the issues go unresolved. And the hurt continues.
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Post by fred on Jun 9, 2009 4:25:48 GMT -5
Instead of saying that tens of thousands of folks have viewed these threads, it would be more correct to say that there have been tens of thousands of views...............by how many folks? My guess would be 3-500 people have viewed these threads.
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Post by pianoman on Jun 9, 2009 4:37:01 GMT -5
Now Fred, that is just speculation, and Bandtroll hates that. Please don't upset the cart now.
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Post by pianoman on Jun 12, 2009 0:04:32 GMT -5
Just moving this post to page one, so that it will all be together................
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Post by jphillips on Jun 19, 2009 12:38:03 GMT -5
Instead of saying that tens of thousands of folks have viewed these threads, it would be more correct to say that there have been tens of thousands of views...............by how many folks? My guess would be 3-500 people have viewed these threads. To be concise of the number of viewers of the current threads (because there are others buried in pages of past threads and a few that were deleted/moved to ADMIN archives) as of 1:34 PM EST today. 14,415 Michigan 14,562 Michigan Follow-up 4,437 The aftermath of Phase 1 ... 30,883 Michigan Abuse Case 64,297 Total Viewers (which also includes multiple views by some)
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Post by fred on Jun 20, 2009 2:41:57 GMT -5
Are you saying ManFred the the record is sorted into viewers rather than views. For example I would probably check a thread twice a day ........then for a period of six months. This multiplies into a large no. of views, but the log only shows 1
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Post by dgaab on Jun 20, 2009 6:11:26 GMT -5
Are you saying ManFred the the record is sorted into viewers rather than views. For example I would probably check a thread twice a day ........then for a period of six months. This multiplies into a large no. of views, but the log only shows 1 The system's log would count it as 360 = 2 (a day) x 180 (~days in six months), checked it out at 3:30 AM EST one night when no one else was on the system(0 members, 0 guests, 1 invisible (ME)) by repeatedly opening a specific thread, "I know, I know, what a boring life!" So you have three-or-four who religiously saber wave the last year, one would think they'd like to distance themselves from the dilemma (I know I would), as though they are going to dramatically influence any changes, which adds up. Move on with life. 95% of these MI case threads are blather with little documented facts. Don't misinterpret that this case is a tragedy for all and I appreciate when there are FACTS (but it's few). PM if you refer to a specific post # be aware that tomorrow that post's number could be inaccurate whenever members delete any of their posts before it. So who will be the first to pounce on me like a sumo wrestler?
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Post by sharon on Jun 27, 2009 10:22:40 GMT -5
It needs to be a burpless one, you know1 ;D
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White Knight
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Post by White Knight on Jul 2, 2009 19:05:44 GMT -5
For all readers info today the second twin plead guilt too all the charges.
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White Knight
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Post by White Knight on Jul 2, 2009 20:47:56 GMT -5
For all readers info today the second twin plead guilt no contest too all the charges. However, made a plea bargin.
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Post by dgaab on Aug 20, 2009 17:41:13 GMT -5
So who will be the first to pounce on me like a sumo wrestler? I will. I am looking for a flavorful cucumber for my dinner salad. ;D Oooooooooh, that makes me tremble with 'goosebumps,' young lady!
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White Knight
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Post by White Knight on Nov 14, 2009 22:54:59 GMT -5
edit by mod3:
This post contained a "text" version of a court document. We do not allow that type of posting on TMB.
Here is our policy on court documents: 1. They must be scanned images (prefer .pdf format) with the names blacked out. 2. They can only be posted on the sub-board titled "Registered Board- For Members".
Please respect these policies.
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White Knight
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Post by White Knight on Nov 27, 2009 23:34:42 GMT -5
Yes, one male worker that was transferred to another state from MI to (WI, I believe), because of several accusations, then was sent home from there around early 2004 (I believe). He was falsely accused by the twins, in which he had nothing to do with them. He was mentioned or brought into this case in order to clear (those in charge) conscience. This is the man that was charged due to accusations, leveled at him, prior to 2004. He was arrested around September/October, 2009. This is the one Scott is referring to in post # 76. On how sensitive should we be thread.
Another worker who’s initials and or full name was plastered both on wings and on TMB was also mentioned by the twins via others…. That had nothing to do with them. Was forced out of the work and he was an overseer. Apparently there were issues with him some years back. But as I said was brought forth in the MI case which had nothing to do with the twins. This is only or barely a drop in the bucket of mounting evidence of which we have in others involvements with the twins and their false allegations.
Worker three had apparently done something in MI. against a bishop’s grandson (a miner) about 2006. Again he was brought into the MI case falsely accused by the twins. Worker four was accused by the twin’s whose initials were bandied about here on TMB because of refusal to collaborate with them.
Workers five and six resigned because tied was turning and they were being trapped in there on game.
Worker seven was railed on by the overseer in MI, till her nerves gave out she was a good worker. She now resides in eastern Canada. Left the work about 05-06.
Worker eight passed away just before or about the time worker four was accused. His death has left a cloud of suspicion in MI.
Worker nine was one of three sister workers that had a transfer out of the State of MI. (AND were glade to leave) in a round 08. She went to Kentucky but mysteriously left due to nerves went home to WI.
Worker ten was transferred to Kentucky as overseer in 07 by the headworker in MI. Worker eleven almost left but is pending, hope he can hang in.
[glow=red,2,300]Does no one see a problem in MI yet?[/glow]
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