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Post by todd on Jun 4, 2009 21:21:09 GMT -5
Todd, you explained very well that Jesus is the son of God. I admire you for taking the time to try to explain this to the blind. They just won't and don't see it. Why would we need Jesus as our intercessor if He were God? Who would he have been praying to if he were God? They are one in heart, mind and spirit but not one and the same being. Todd, I hope you don't allow yourself to be drawn into futile arguments with some of the people that post on here. Thanks Lizzy, but I am beginning to wonder from some of the comments that you and I, even though we know who Jesus and God and the Holy Spirit are, don't know what it is that these "trinitarian's" mean when they say "trinity". It would be good if someone would be able to explain it.
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Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Jun 4, 2009 21:34:24 GMT -5
It would be good if someone would be able to explain it. I don't think it really can be explained, todd. I think the idea is sort of that it's beyond the human capacity to comprehend at this time. It is necessary, however, if one is to assume the infallibility of scripture that one accepts, alongside those verses that teach Jesus and God as separate entities, also the verses that describe Jesus AS God. btw, I find it kind of ironic that you reject the mystical, when it seems to me you argue for the mystical when it comes to discussing the origins of the Truth.
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Post by freespirit on Jun 4, 2009 21:34:39 GMT -5
Todd, you explained very well that Jesus is the son of God. I admire you for taking the time to try to explain this to the blind. They just won't and don't see it. Why would we need Jesus as our intercessor if He were God? Who would he have been praying to if he were God? They are one in heart, mind and spirit but not one and the same being. Todd, I hope you don't allow yourself to be drawn into futile arguments with some of the people that post on here. Thanks Lizzy, but I am beginning to wonder from some of the comments that you and I, even though we know who Jesus and God and the Holy Spirit are, don't know what it is that these "trinitarian's" mean when they say "trinity". It would be good if someone would be able to explain it. Todd, is it okay to worship Jesus? Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. fs
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Post by todd on Jun 4, 2009 21:50:36 GMT -5
I do not believe I will ever understand the Trinity enough to explain it; Are you saying that you believe something, but don't know what you believe? Surely you can tell me what the trinity is if you think it is such a good thing. Yes it does. Jesus revealing himself to Thomas was just one of the signs that was written in John "that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name". Well that's what my bibe says anyway.
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Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Jun 4, 2009 21:54:34 GMT -5
I do not believe I will ever understand the Trinity enough to explain it; Are you saying that you believe something, but don't know what you believe? Surely you can tell me what the trinity is if you think it is such a good thing. Good thing? Believe? You're talking to the wrong person, lol. I am seldom teased into discussing what I personally believe, because that's quite irrelevant; I approach the scriptures more as an unbiased scholar trying to figure out what the authors meant.
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Post by Zorro on Jun 4, 2009 22:40:24 GMT -5
What do you mean you can't explain in the original understanding? What has this got to do with Zorro that you would be concerned about him?Todd, you really need to get that ol' sense of humor thing checked out. I probably don't know you well enough to get the joke... plus I was wondering why it couldn't be explained and had to be cast aside with a joke. I thought the trinitarian was a serious subject that many are so passionate about. Other than that, I'll give my sense of humor an oil change as see how that goes. Here's where DC was coming from.....he knows that I'm a defender of the doctrine and he and I have had many, many, many discussions and have gone round, and round, and round, and round.......and round about it. DC and I come from profoundly different perspectives, as far as our regarding the authority of Scripture, so we come to profoundly different conclusions. But I think I think I can speak for both of us in that we've had alot of healthy, respectful, and constructive dialog. One thing I've observed is that the vast majority of criticism against the doctrine comes from people that don't actually understand it. That makes for excessively polemic dialog, IMO (being called "blind", for example). I've said before, and I'll say it again, I have no interest in arguing with people about it. But I'll never refuse to try to help someone understand the doctrine, if they're genuinely interested. For a start, one needs to realize that there is a HUGE difference between understanding the doctrine of the Trinity vs understanding the mystery of it. I understand the doctrine pretty well (as does a good number on the board), but the mystery? Not so much. But to me, that's what I love about it
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Post by todd on Jun 4, 2009 23:47:42 GMT -5
I am not all that crazy about the term "trinity." From what I can tell: 1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
John 1 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning. The relationship is more of a "unity" than a "trinity." But the term doesn't bother me. I think that human language gets in the way of trying to explain. Todd, is it okay to worship Jesus? Why or why not? fs Well it seems like I don't even know what they mean by the term "trinity". And it looks as though no one is going explain it. Yes, there were plenty of people who worshiped Jesus, because of what he did for them. I don't know that I would call my relationship with Jesus just worship so much because it doesn't seem to really reflect the close friendship or 2 way relationship that we can have. I guess I am just thinking of those who worship images and such, but don't get any response.
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Post by Zorro on Jun 4, 2009 23:51:00 GMT -5
Well it seems like I don't even know what they mean by the term "trinity". And it looks as though no one is going explain it.
Do you want someone to "explain it" or do you want to understand it? There's a difference.
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Post by todd on Jun 4, 2009 23:54:31 GMT -5
Todd! Please remember when you're thinking about these things that there are 2 Deities in Heaven at this given moment. God the Father and God the Son who is sitting on the right hand of God the Father. Sharon, I realise this and have heard many workers say this exact same thing, yet for some reason people say that our preachers deny the trinity (whatever the trinity is), so these trinitarians are talking about something that is different. Are you able to tell me what trinity is referring to?
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Post by todd on Jun 4, 2009 23:56:51 GMT -5
Well it seems like I don't even know what they mean by the term "trinity". And it looks as though no one is going explain it.Do you want someone to "explain it" or do you want to understand it? There's a difference. If you explain it, hopefully I will understand it.
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Post by todd on Jun 5, 2009 0:01:58 GMT -5
Just wanted to say thanks Todd for your thoughts - your explanation of those chapters makes pretty good sense to me. It seems that Jesus tried to make the situation very understandable with regard to the Father and the Son - a concept that we can grasp with human understanding. Jesus never tried to make things so complex that they could only be grasped by a few, in fact quite the opposite, he revealed them to the babes. Thanks Jimmy I can see why he got frustrated with those who thought he was blaspheming. He tried to make it simple but they thought he was trying to tell them something completely different to what he was.
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Post by Zorro on Jun 5, 2009 0:09:36 GMT -5
If you explain it, hopefully I will understand it.
Trust me, if you don't want to understand it, you won't. I've seen too many people that just want to argue.
To start with, there are a few prerequisites. First, it's helpful to honestly ask yourself if Scripture teaches you something other than what you currently understand, are you willing to change your position? We'd all like to assume that we would, but that's easier said than done. Let's take that thought for a test drive and look at the verse I mentioned earlier:
Titus 2:11For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. 12It teaches us to say "No" to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13while we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.
Here Scripture clearly describes Jesus as God. Is your first reaction an attempt to explain that away or scratch your head and go "hmmmmmm"?
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Post by freespirit on Jun 5, 2009 4:29:09 GMT -5
I am not all that crazy about the term "trinity." From what I can tell: 1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
John 1 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning. The relationship is more of a "unity" than a "trinity." But the term doesn't bother me. I think that human language gets in the way of trying to explain. Todd, is it okay to worship Jesus? Why or why not? fs Well it seems like I don't even know what they mean by the term "trinity". And it looks as though no one is going explain it. Yes, there were plenty of people who worshiped Jesus, because of what he did for them. I don't know that I would call my relationship with Jesus just worship so much because it doesn't seem to really reflect the close friendship or 2 way relationship that we can have. I guess I am just thinking of those who worship images and such, but don't get any response. I didn't ask if it was okay to worship images. I asked if it was okay to worship Jesus. The bible says it is idolatry to worship anything besides God. Why is is okay to worship Jesus? fs
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Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Jun 5, 2009 9:20:20 GMT -5
I didn't ask if it was okay to worship images. I asked if it was okay to worship Jesus. The bible says it is idolatry to worship anything besides God. Why is is okay to worship Jesus? fs fs, I hear where you're coming from, but it appears to me to be more rationalization than research. This is the sort of thinking that led to a Trinity doctrine, and I've argued before that it played a part. The earlist Gospel writers were brave souls! Making no claim about Jesus being God (sorry, zorro) they claimed Jesus was deserving of worship! Contrary to the scriptures! omg, they healed on the sabbath, ate with unwashen hands, these guys were SINNERS! Yikes! Perhaps later Christians like John wimped out and turned Jesus into God? Made a mess of it and forced us to either abandon his Gospel or devise a doctrine to explain it all?
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Post by sharon on Jun 5, 2009 9:50:18 GMT -5
"***** (I Cor. 15:24-28) ...Then comes the END, when Christ shall have delivered up the Kingdom to God, even the Father, when He shall have put down all rule, and all authority and forever...When all things shall be Subdued unto him, then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto God that put all things under Christ, that God may be All in All."
Nathan, this verse has always made me wonder if when this all is accomplished that IF not all three aspects of the Godhead would then become a single entity in the Deity in Heaven? Though I know Rev. speaks about God on His throne and the Lamb being there on His right as the glory of God...it's just me wondering I suppose, if all that might coalasce again into just being God...but again once God the Father spoke, His word was out there to not being abled to be retrieved could it? Thus Jesus Christ will always be an entity in the deity of heaven. Right?
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Post by sharon on Jun 5, 2009 10:00:02 GMT -5
Todd, again I'll tell you the story about an elderly lady who had lived her life as near as she thought it possible to being a good christian and I mean that term only...not that she was within the 2X2 system but that she had read her Bible and sought the will of God within her life everyday AFTER she'd recognized Jesus Christ as her Saviour....ON her DEATHBED, just a few seconds before taking her last breath, she said this "IF YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND NOW, YOU WILL IN THE FLEETING LAST BREATH!" And she took her last breath and died. The mystery of God is perfection as it was when Paradise was first created in the garden of Eden, before man messed it up with disobedience. Think about that! There is a connection between Gen. 1 all the way through the Bible to the last chapter in Rev. It fits together for it is God's own and He will reveal it to us as He feels we are well able......
It is true that there are Biblical Scholars who get the word of the Bible and perhaps in ways understand it as no other man can, but the connection through it all still won't be their's until God wills it....that I'm sure of. That's the mystery of it all....do not fret if you do not understand the Trinity concept....just remember that there are 3 parts of the Godhead if you must and they have their place at this time in your life and search of heaven....God the Father in Heaven, Jesus Christ your Saviour(and I think we should worship Him, for I sure wouldn't want to go to the cross and die for my brothers would you?) I'm that much of a coward! AND then the gift of the Holy Spirit that is our Comforter while the "bridegroom is away"!
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Post by Zorro on Jun 5, 2009 10:02:26 GMT -5
fs, I hear where you're coming from, but it appears to me to be more rationalization than research. This is the sort of thinking that led to a Trinity doctrine, and I've argued before that it played a part.
Again, it's your overall perspective of Scripture that leads to this type of conclusion: but it appears to me to be more rationalization than research. I believe quite the opposite to be true. Specifically, research God's attributes. All of them. You will further discover that Jesus had all of them. To conclude that Jesus' possession of God's attributes supports arguments of his deity is entirely reasonable, and in fact the basis of much scholarly research. To charge these conclusions are mere rationalization is simple stubbornness, from my view. Sorry, DC.
EDIT: I suppose "stubborness" may be harsh. I suspect it's really more a reflection of your willingness to discount the authority of Scripture. When Scripture says that we should worship no one but God, and then describes people worshipping Jesus, you conclude that Scripture has contradicted itself; whereas many of us conclude that means Jesus is God. While it still strikes me as stubborness, I recognize the effects of your bias against the authority of Scripture. Which begs the question, why are you interested in these types of discussions? You argue with Todd in favor of Jesus deity and you argue with me and others against it. Is this all just sport to you?
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Post by Zorro on Jun 5, 2009 10:31:31 GMT -5
DC, IMO your claim that Mark and the other writers didn't believe in or understand Christ's deity is weak, at best. First of all, the phrase "Son of God" indicates deity and Mark used it in the very first line of his gospel. But what I really want to illustrate is exactly what you just brought to the table.
Mark 2:5When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Son, your sins are forgiven."
6Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, 7"Why does this fellow talk like that? He's blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?"
8Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, "Why are you thinking these things? 9Which is easier: to say to the paralytic, 'Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, 'Get up, take your mat and walk'? 10But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins . . . ." He said to the paralytic, 11"I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home." 12He got up, took his mat and walked out in full view of them all. This amazed everyone and they praised God, saying, "We have never seen anything like this!"
Very simple. One of the attributes of God is the abilty to forgive sins. Everyone in this scene knew this. Jesus very clearly stated that he wanted them know he had authority to forgive sins. The equally clear conclusion is that Jesus had the attributes of God.
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Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Jun 5, 2009 11:29:49 GMT -5
well, since you're addressing me directly, I should respond to questions. When Scripture says that we should worship no one but God, and then describes people worshipping Jesus, you conclude that Scripture has contradicted itself; whereas many of us conclude that means Jesus is God. Yes, I guess this is so. People see in the scriptures what they expect to see. I have adaquately proven to myself that the scriptures are inconsistent, so I am not surprised when I see contradictions; you have proven to yourself just the opposite, so you see consistency in everything. A funny example from a different thread I posted: John makes it clear (in my interpretation) that one reason the Jews rejected Jesus was that they expected the Messiah to come from Bethlehem, and he did not...he came from Nazareth. In our bible study on that chapter, three people mentioned that verse, all of them saying how clueless the Jews were, how they didn't understand Jesus really DID come from Bethlehem! My jaw kept dropping lower and lower! Yes, we read in the scriptures what we expect to find there. lol. I neither argue for Christ's deity nor against it. The truth I search for in the Bible is not the truth about God; that, I consider uknowable at this time. Rather, I seek the truth about what Bible writers thought about God. We can learn from their myriad of opinions. I am equally capable of arguing that Matthew had no concept of Jesus being God, and then arguing that John saw Jesus precisely as God. We disagree pretty radically. Through the Jewish scriptures, lots of people were called son of God. But you have to admit, it's kind of humorous how Matthew picked up on the title and described how God literally came down from heaven and impregnated Mary to create a son! We have argued this point before. Daniel prophesied about a "son of Man" who would go up to heaven and be anointed by God with great authority, who would then come back down to earth with God's blessing to rule. Yes, this authority to forgive sins was beyond reason, and again I point to how brave the Gospel writers were to suggest God had given this authority to Jesus! The Jews were appalled! But no, no claim is made that Jesus is God, only that he was given authority as promised by Daniel.
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Post by Zorro on Jun 5, 2009 11:55:46 GMT -5
First of all, the phrase "Son of God" indicates deity and Mark used it in the very first line of his gospel. We disagree pretty radically. Through the Jewish scriptures, lots of people were called son of God.There was a reason translators made a distinction between the terms Son of God and son of God. Apparently, you recognize that, as well.....but don't want to acknowledge it Yes, this authority to forgive sins was beyond reason, and again I point to how brave the Gospel writers were to suggest God had given this authority to Jesus! The Jews were appalled! But no, no claim is made that Jesus is God, only that he was given authority as promised by Daniel. The authority to forgive sins (which Jesus went to great lengths to demonstrate) is only one of God's attributes. Another is omniscience, which he also demonstrated in this same scene. 6Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, 7"Why does this fellow talk like that? He's blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?"
8Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, I suppose a person can nit-pick individual examples all they want, but a thorough study of God's attributes and Jesus' possession of them is overwhelming. IMO, the only way someone can conclude that Scripture doesn't demonstrate Jesus' deity is to reject the authority of Scripture in some way, shape or form. If you think about it, you should have no problem agreeing with this, actually
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Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Jun 5, 2009 12:05:09 GMT -5
I see in the first few centuries after Jesus, from the human Jesus of Mark to the divine Jesus of John and beyond, writers grappling with this question of who Jesus is and slowly reaching the conclusion that God Himself came down to earth! This really should surprise no one, except those who cling desperately to the inerrancy of Scripture, for that is how all knowledge is acquired through the ages; we stand on the shoulders of our predecessors and climb higher and higher.
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Post by Zorro on Jun 5, 2009 12:33:30 GMT -5
I see in the first few centuries after Jesus, from the human Jesus of Mark to the divine Jesus of John and beyond, writers grappling with this question of who Jesus is and slowly reaching the conclusion that God Himself came down to earth! This really should surprise no one, except those who cling desperately to the inerrancy of Scripture, for that is how all knowledge is acquired through the ages; we stand on the shoulders of our predecessors and climb higher and higher. I don't disagree with this at all, except that you view the progressive revelation of God to mankind as an indicator of errancy. I can't even imagine what they struggled with to make sense of it all. There are many things that were clarified over decades and centuries. Christ's deity gets the most 'airplay", but completely accepted doctrines, such as the atonement through Christ's blood, came much later. Do we think that people just immediately understood what Jesus' sacrifice meant? In our day, we argue about this stuff, but in those days it would have been really, really mind bending.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jun 5, 2009 16:58:54 GMT -5
We were at the funeral for the mother of someone I work with and I read the Nicene Creed for the first time. Not much there to disagree with, here's the wiki page on it's history; en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicene_CreedHere's the version of the Nicene Creed I read this morning; I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of His Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made; who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate. He suffered and was buried. And the third day He rose again according to the Scriptures and ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of the Father. And He will come again with glory to judge both the living and the dead, whose kingdom will have no end. And I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified, who spoke by the prophets. And I believe in one holy Christian and apostolic Church, I acknowledge one Baptism for the remission of sins, and I look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen. This was a pretty good discussion on trinity I thought Jason's reply #77 was a good one; professing.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=13295&page=3Zorro I remember you said much the same thing as Jason, that the phrase "Jesus is God" is not really a correct or helpful way to condense the trinity idea.
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Post by Zorro on Jun 5, 2009 17:25:17 GMT -5
Zorro I remember you said much the same thing as Jason, that the phrase "Jesus is God" is not really a correct or helpful way to condense the trinity idea.
No, it really isn't. It does draw "the battle lines" pretty quickly, though. IMO, the bickering about Jesus' deity always derails the conversation well before one of the critical issues ever gets discussed, which is the 3rd person of the Trinity - the Holy Ghost. People who reject the Trinity fail to consider this ramification; IE how can God truly, fully live within us? I'm not talking about our attitude, or a force, or any such thing. The Trinity becomes an extremely powerful doctrine when we realize that what we are talking about is God, the living God, dwelling within us. People have no problem considering that "God" dwells within us, but have those who reject the Trinity ever critically considered how that can be if the Holy Spirit - that dwells within us - is not God?
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Post by eyedeetentee on Jun 5, 2009 20:17:31 GMT -5
Holy Spirit - God's Spirit.
AAAAAuuuuuuuuuuuuggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh . . . . . . . I could not resist. I vowed more than a year ago to not discuss this topic ever again. Heaven help me! I lied!
Oh wait, I don't need 'heaven's' help; I need help from my cohorts here at the Company.
(I cannot get liver and onions off my mind!)
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Post by freespirit on Jun 7, 2009 4:35:22 GMT -5
Well it seems like I don't even know what they mean by the term "trinity". And it looks as though no one is going explain it. Yes, there were plenty of people who worshiped Jesus, because of what he did for them. I don't know that I would call my relationship with Jesus just worship so much because it doesn't seem to really reflect the close friendship or 2 way relationship that we can have. I guess I am just thinking of those who worship images and such, but don't get any response. I didn't ask if it was okay to worship images. I asked if it was okay to worship Jesus. The bible says it is idolatry to worship anything besides God. Why is is okay to worship Jesus? fs Todd, you didn't answer my question. Why is it okay to worship Jesus? fs
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Post by todd on Jun 8, 2009 23:04:39 GMT -5
I didn't ask if it was okay to worship images. I asked if it was okay to worship Jesus. The bible says it is idolatry to worship anything besides God. Why is is okay to worship Jesus? fs Todd, you didn't answer my question. Why is it okay to worship Jesus? fs FS, Sorry, I didn't have much time to reply before… Yes I am quite fine with worshiping Jesus, even though you are saying that we should only worship God. Here is WHY I think this… Look at it this way… If I made something, and you said how amazing that thing was, in that I would take the honor and worship of that thing as honor and worship to me because my knowledge/skill/nature is manifested or magnified in that thing. So if I said to you, “only me shalt though worship, and no other”, you can see why I would be fine with you worshiping things that are of me, because I have effectively put “me” into that thing. As another example, my sister-in-law often calls my son “mini-Todd” and “Toddlet”, because of how much he looks like me, and not only that, also comments on his looks, and I don’t say this to boast (oh ok, yes I do), but she says how he will be a “stunner” when he grows up. Don’t you think I would take that as a compliment? Yes I do. So, do you think that God, who has told us to worship only him, would have any problem whatsoever with anybody worshiping his son because of the things of that are of him… his very nature and spirit. In worshipping Jesus, who is exactly the same spirit as God, we are worshipping God. God will not be one bit jealous of us honoring the things that are of him. Jesus is always quick to point out that he does nothing of himself, but as his Father taught him. Getting back to the first example, if that something I made showed my skills or nature, by way of making them discernible or apparent, then I could point to it and say “this is who I am” or “this is me”. The truth is it physically isn’t me, but looking at that thing makes evident my nature or abilities. Another example is that if I held up a picture of me and asked you who is this, you might say “that is you”. Again it isn’t physically me, but only a picture of me, but what that picture does is make me known to someone who might only see that picture. We are talking “words”, but I think that is the biggest problem that people struggle with. People see evidence of God saying “Jesus is me”, but don’t realize what he is actually saying, and they get some concept into their mind that is so complicated (as is evident here) that they can’t even explain what it is they believe because it doesn’t make sense. And then they can’t explain some of the basic concepts such as Jesus being our mediator, pleading with God for our salvation, and for the forgiveness of those who were putting him through that suffering, and even to the point where he asked God in his agony, “Why have you forsaken me?” Jesus faced this alone… he needed to, because it was to God he pleaded. Can you picture a boy pleading with his dad to keep the puppy who just dug up the garden? He is the mediator between the dad and the puppy, asking for another chance. Even though the dad and the boy have the same rules for the behavior of the puppy, and are as one in most things, they are not physically the same, and when the boy is pleading to his dad that the puppy be given a chance, he is on his own. How then is it even possible that he is also his dad? Those who quote John 1:1 and very selectively ”the Word was God” don’t seem to have an explanation for ”the Word was with God”, but if you look at John 3… 34For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
35The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
You can see that Jesus is the word (word of God… ie God’s word) sent to earth, and it is very reasonable to say that the Word is God. If we obey that word, we are obeying God… if we see the beauty in that word, that beauty is of God. God said “this is my Son in whom I am well pleased… hear ye Him”. This was because his beloved son spoke his word. He is the word of God. Anyway, that is my take on it all, but I’m happy to learn more about this, and it may be that I don’t understand what people mean by “trinity”. It would be good for someone to give a 1 or 2 sentence summary on what they mean. It seems that some saying there is one God, but some saying there are three separate God’s. Have I even got that right?
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Post by todd on Jun 8, 2009 23:17:06 GMT -5
People have no problem considering that "God" dwells within us, but have those who reject the Trinity ever critically considered how that can be if the Holy Spirit - that dwells within us - is not God? Zorro, I don't know if I fit into the category of one who rejects the trinity seeing it appears I don't know what is meant by that word, but if I was filled with the Holy Spirit 100%, to the point that every word I spoke was words that God would speak, and every decision I made was exactly the decision God would make, so much so that you could not tell the difference between me and God, that still doesn't make me God, even though I am 100% full of the Holy Spirit.
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