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Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Oct 7, 2008 19:57:11 GMT -5
I wonder if any of the f&w's here are reading the sincere prayers on this board (21-day-intercession) for your spiritual welfare, and what feelings the thread evokes? Wanna talk about it? I am naturally nervous about asking, because I honestly don't know what answers will come, and don't want to rain on the parade...but curiosity has gotten the better of me.
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Post by JO on Oct 7, 2008 20:42:16 GMT -5
I wonder if any of the f&w's here are reading the sincere prayers on this board (21-day-intercession) for your spiritual welfare, and what feelings the thread evokes? Wanna talk about it? I am naturally nervous about asking, because I honestly don't know what answers will come, and don't want to rain on the parade...but curiosity has gotten the better of me. Frankly I don't appreciate calls for the destruction of the 2x2 fellowship, but that's not what I'm seeing on the 21-day thread. I'm seeing people praying for what friends and workers should be praying for, but those in the fellowship best placed to make a difference seem so certain that all is well. If only the movers and shakers would realise and admit that the fellowship is poor and blind and naked, and in repentance plead for help from above, then with God's help it could quickly get on the road to spiritual prosperity. The defenders of the status quo are frustrating the work of God IMO. Thank you Shushi for this prayer: Father we pray over the leaders in the 2x2 meetings Lord, we pray calling on the authority of Jesus name to bind and cast out all spirits of deception, dilution and pride. We pray you would send a spirit of repentance and humility into their hearts Lord. We pray lord in Jesus name that they would not resist the leading and guiding of your spirit Father. FAther we pray that you would purify us in the blood of Jesus and give us purity in our hearts, purging us of every impure thing that is not from you. WE pray in Jesus name that you would raise up leaders who are guided by the Holy Spirit and who are tender to His convictions. Lord tear down the leaders who resist you in Jesus name~
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Post by gloryintruth on Oct 7, 2008 20:42:40 GMT -5
I didn't know there was any praying going on here. The hate factor seems as high as ever. Where are these prayers?
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Post by hope on Oct 7, 2008 21:38:10 GMT -5
Thanks for your curious heart Diet Coke~ I love that about you! God will purify it and use your natural curosity to bring you closer to Himself I have no doubt, questions and curiosity are how children learn~ God calls us to be childlike.
There is obiviously no need for anyone to feel threatened~
We pray only for God to shows us through His scripture, we pray the scripture~ so we are praying not what we think or feel about the 2x2 but according to the Father's direction. God strongly convicts my heart as He directs me to the scripture He wants me to bring to the table (the other intercessors vouch the same). It is all God.
Not only that but often as I interceed I physically feel the presence of God come upon me - God is really confirming and letting me know His heart is after these prayers and He is powerfully using them. I am constantly humbled in my heart to have been given the honor of being part of this - because God is so tangible in this.
Even if you don't believe that, and you believe because we are not part of the F&W that we don't know God then our prayers are rendered pointless and without power anyway. So there is no reason to be offended or threatened.
The only cause there would be to be threatened is if people know the faults in the 2x2, see God is powerfully using these prayers and yet they do not wanting change. The bible recounts a similar situation in the New Testament Ministry where the Jew/Pharisees were feeling threatened and it was said to leave them alone - if this ministry is not from God it has no power, if it is then we should follow Jesus also - I will try and find the exact verses and post them on here later.
All the intercession that has gone up has been done in love ~ and under the instruction and guidance of the Holy Spirit.
Peace and love Hope~
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Post by ilylo on Oct 7, 2008 21:39:44 GMT -5
I didn't know there was any praying going on here. The hate factor seems as high as ever. Where are these prayers? ...immediately following all your posts. Dear Lord, please help this poor young man get over his ego trip...
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Post by gloryintruth on Oct 7, 2008 22:47:22 GMT -5
Wow, thanks Ilylo - the sincerity of your sentiments are exceeded only by your gross hypocrisy: "God I thank thee that I am not as other men are..."
Your incessant accusations; your intolerable judgements; the sleaziness of your behaviour - posting my picture and those of other posters - is enough for me to know that any prayer offered by you is really the spiritual equivalent of a curse. Even your blessings are poison.
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shushy
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Post by shushy on Oct 7, 2008 22:54:41 GMT -5
Diet, I cant help laughing you do make me smile...you are very endearing. Glad you opened another thread rather than ask questions over there.
In point of fact the intercession is only different to what we would be praying if it were our own church. Emphasis being on as the Lord leads. We love an amasing God.
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Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Oct 8, 2008 0:04:44 GMT -5
well, I have heard from one f&w who wonders if the prayers may have already made a difference, given a recent experience. I wouldn't break a trust by discussing this, but think I can say that some, at least, are appreciative.
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Post by shushy on Oct 8, 2008 1:10:54 GMT -5
Diet, Psssssst......... I know. How do I know? The Lord showed me.That even though we may not see it it is working. Its not about fighting one another its battling the heavens and what is around us.
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Post by hope on Oct 8, 2008 1:17:41 GMT -5
Praise the Lord -all power and Glory to Him, without Him our prayers are empty and powerless~
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Post by gloryintruth on Oct 8, 2008 1:46:09 GMT -5
If these prayers are intended to get us Friends out of the Church, they will not work. (At least not with me).
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Post by hope on Oct 8, 2008 1:57:32 GMT -5
They are intended only for what God intends to use them for~ God is leading these prayers with the scripture He provides. Praying the scriptures is an essential part of spiritual growth for any believer.
Pray that your heart will be open to His movement GIC so that you can keep growing in Him~
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Post by hope on Oct 8, 2008 1:58:39 GMT -5
Diet Coke -
thank-you for the encouragement ~ We can feel Him moving even if we can't see what He is doing ~ He is Here - Praise Him!
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Post by hope on Oct 8, 2008 2:07:03 GMT -5
GIC- you might also want to rethink that statement-
or if not then rethink "What does church really mean to you?"~
if truly our prayers ascend to heaven and release God's power - then what you are saying is "Nope not even God and His power will get me out of this church"
IF that is what your saying then there is something wrong there. You are worshipping the church 2x2 and not God ~ the 2x2 have become an idol in your life which means more to you than God moving in your life (see todays scripture - its particulary relevant to this)
After all Isn't worshipping God what church is all about? isn't being in submission to His guidance in our lives with in a loving authentic relationship with Him why we do what we do?
the only way these prayers can do anything is if the power of God is behind them - If God is not with us then they are just empty words with no power, no threat - nothing. If God is with us these prayers can do ANYTHING~ nothing is impossible with my Mighty God.
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Post by landdownunder on Oct 8, 2008 3:02:43 GMT -5
If these prayers are intended to get us Friends out of the Church, they will not work. (At least not with me). Mate, i'm attending meetings and i'm praying with them on the other thread. I'm not leaving meetings unless God leads me out and he hasn't yet. We're simply praying the scriptures as Hope says. And like shushy said, they are the same prayers all those caring people would and likely are praying for their own churches. God will lead and work. Funny thing is, he actually listens and wants us to intercede. Can't quite figure that out but its who God is, part of his character. He wants us to talk with him, to plead with him for others, and to personally have God as our joy and our delight. Loosen up and just trust him, man.
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Post by gloryintruth on Oct 8, 2008 3:47:03 GMT -5
The Church is the "pillar and ground of the truth". It is the household of God.
As I neither accept your conclusion (below), nor your premise, it should not be surprising that I reject your argument. I don't believe God removes faithful believers from his Church.
No. This is your interpretation, and the interpretation of many exes, which is not sustained by my own experience. No one in the Church mistakes the Church for the really important things, like the Word of God.
Of course.
[/quote]
Prayer without the aid of the Holy Spirit has no efficacy or power. Prayers offered up which are inconsistent with the Word of God, or the Will of God, have no effect or power. Praying to lead people out of the Church is not, I believe, consistent with the will of God. Indeed, you are praying to remove people from the Light of the Lord which dispels all the darkness of ignorance and error.
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Post by shushy on Oct 8, 2008 5:13:33 GMT -5
Latte Jason or would that be a port?
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Post by hope on Oct 8, 2008 5:33:43 GMT -5
I'm so curious about your Quote~ "the church is the pillar and the ground of the truth" -
curious because Jesus said "I am the way the light and the truth", Jesus is the truth - He doesn't need a pillar, He depended soley on the Father, who are we to be to be "a pillar" - (meaning of course to strengthen/to hold up) for Jesus Son Of God? Jesus is my pillar ~ rather than the other way round...
He is the way. Glory TO Christ for His compassionate heart and mercy~ when He comes and knocks at the door of our sinful, darkened hearts, seeking to live within our spirit He teaches those who accept Him everything~
He is teacher, Lord, master, husband, lover, brother~ He becomes everything to a heart that runs after Him and loves Him. The Holy Spirit comes and brings a transformation that changes how we think, speak and feel as every thought is taken captive to Christ.
The bible describes it as "He is the head and the church is the body" ~ His church is His family, His brothers and sisters are bought with His blood by grace. Those who believe in Him and worship Him as Saviour are His - His "beloved" His bride~ "The church" - simply meaning body of believers.
Where we are differing is that you are seeing the word "church" as only being the 2x2, focusing on "a way" rather than "the way".
I see the church as those who love, worship and serve the Lord Jesus and Father God with all their heart, mind and soul.
- Therefore you see our prayers and intercession as attacking the body of Christ (the 2x2)
- Whereas I see it as God's heart to bring healing in one area within the body of Christ. I can see that God is seeking bring joy where there is confusion and Holy Passion to lukewarm hearts, to bring intimacy where there is deception.
Only God can do any of these things~ no human hand or heart or prayer to hope to attain. Only God can move mountains~ He is the powerful one~ We remember the darkness and cry out to Him "abba father, precious Father, daddy~ bring your light to the darkness, cast out every deception that wars against those who would know you, may your word be spoken with the Fire of Revelation that burns up all falseness in Jesus Name - Send your Holy Spirit Lord, we need You" and the Lord ~ My Holy Father, hears in Heaven and answers~ He is Faithful.
"All have fallen short of the glory of God" ~ Jesus must be Glorified and lifted high within the body because He is our redemption, He is "the way" that God provided for us to be made right with Him~
Praise and Glory to Him!! ~ Thank-you Jesus!
God has just brought to my mind this scripture~ "Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. And the Lord’s servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful." (2 Timothy 2:22-24)
I am not seeking to change your mind - only God can work in a human heart for only He sees it I have sought to help you understand my heart and motivation~ but I also can seek to understand you~ I once would have said the same things to someone like me.
God is speaking verses into my heart that remind me of who He is, and who as His daughter He has given me the power and heart to be~ "They are not to insult anyone or be argumentative. Instead, they are to be gentle and perfectly courteous to everyone. After all, we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, and misled. We were slaves to many kinds of lusts and pleasures, spending our days in malice and jealousy. We were despised, and we hated one another." Titus 3:3
Peace and Love In and For Him Hope
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Post by rational on Oct 8, 2008 5:34:28 GMT -5
Praise the Lord -all power and Glory to Him, without Him our prayers are empty and powerless~ And with him? How could mere mortals frustrate the work of an omnipotent being?
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Post by gloryintruth on Oct 8, 2008 5:43:29 GMT -5
Latte Jason or would that be a port? I consume only one cup of coffee a day. I use the same cup, and drink it at the same time each morning. I greatly dislike coffee - I much prefer strong black Ceylon tea, without sugar (tea should taste bitter) - but the stimulant effect of coffee is often necessary to spur me into the day's activities.
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Post by hope on Oct 8, 2008 5:46:44 GMT -5
Rational~
With Him nothing is impossible~ 2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
"Frustrate the work of God"??
The bible frequently speaks about those who resist God - the Old Testament is full of prophets sent to tell the people to turn from their sin because they were resisting the will of God~ He gave us free will, and it is our free will often stands in the way of God best in our lives~ Endless examples from Gen-Rev. Often if we are not living by the guidance of the Holy Spirit we are living in God's permissive will rather than His desired will. He will not violate the will of a man~
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Post by gloryintruth on Oct 8, 2008 6:14:06 GMT -5
I was quoting the Apostle Paul who wrote (1 Timothy 3:15): "But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth."
These verses are not mutally exclusive. They are distorted to make them appear so by some exes - including by the some of the major exe websites - who employ a kind of semantic shifting technique. I believe these verses are the subject of eisegesis.
To diminish the role and authority of the Church in this way is a sub-biblical view. In fact, heterodox. The nature of Jesus - himself being God - is, of course, truth. God is light, in him is no darkness at all. And so it is with Jesus. And while it is also true that Jesus is omnipotent and needs no human agency, he has chosen to work in the world through his Church.
The authority of the Church is exemplified by Christ himself who said, "And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican."
And again, in The Acts:
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. Those who will be saved, or who are being saved, are added to the Church by none other than the Lord himself. It is therefore disingenuous to attempt to diminish the role of the Church and make it subordinate to YOU.
Does Jesus knock? Or does he conquor? How is it possible for a man dead in trespasses and sins, who is at emnity with God, and who has been "blinded in mind" by the prince of the power of the air, to "accept" Christ? Does God not need to perform a work in the life of the sinner first?
That is the etymology of the word "church", but not the concept.
No I am not. Where we differ is that I hold to a systematic theology, and I understand that the Scripture does not present the Lord in the manner which you assert. For me, Jesus is the Risen King, the Conquoring Lord who destroys the mind of sin in the lives of sinners. If John the Apostle fell at his feet as though dead when he saw the Lord, surely one must approach Christ in absolute respect and humility.
On the other hand, you seem to interpret the whole Bible through a lens of free grace; almost as though John 3:16 is your hermeneutic. Whilst the Doctrines of Grace are tremendously important, this is not the manner in which the Bible is to be viewed. The Bible must be allowed to speak for itself. And when we allow it to speak for itself, the conclusions one must honestly draw are not those rather anarchistic concepts you have articulated here.
If there is one thing I cannot abide, it is faith or "spirituality" unregulated by the Church. I would far sooner dialogue with a Roman Catholic who blindly submits to the Pope in all things, or an ardent Anglican who believes the Archbishop of Canterbury has some divine light within and can do no wrong, than a man who is an authority unto himself.
What you propose is inconsistent with the only authority that matters: God's, as expressed through the Word of God, upheld by the Church of God.
I view the Church as synonymous with the Kingdom.
I believe you are mistaken in your enterprise, yes.
Whereas I do not believe you are adequately equipped, called, or chosen to make that discernment.
I do not exalt Christ on the TMB, because as one of my good friends has said to me, "It's like casting pearls into the swine trough". However, I do exalt in Christ; I have written many hymns to honour the Lord. But this is surely a private exercise.
Peace be unto you, -GiC
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Post by gloryintruth on Oct 8, 2008 6:17:55 GMT -5
A perfect enunciation of Arminianism, sometimes called the Remonstrance. Some would even call it sem-Pelagianism. On the other hand, Calvinists maintain that man does not have free will; we are all "servants (slaves) of unrighteousness". And unless we are born again by a divine act of God, we will never believe, never follow, never choose God, never take a single step in the direction of God as hardened sinners.
Unless God first takes out the heart of stone and gives a heart of flesh, a man will never turn to him. This is so in order that all the glory may be unto God, and to his Son Jesus - we have no part in our own salvation; it is all the work of God! ("That no flesh should glory in his presence").
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Post by hope on Oct 8, 2008 6:47:25 GMT -5
"Look! I am standing at the door and knocking. If anyone listens to my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he will eat with me." Rev 3:20
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Post by rational on Oct 8, 2008 7:02:56 GMT -5
I consume only one cup of coffee a day. I use the same cup, and drink it at the same time each morning. I greatly dislike coffee - I much prefer strong black Ceylon tea, without sugar (tea should taste bitter) - but the stimulant effect of coffee is often necessary to spur me into the day's activities. Here is an idea: If you really dislike coffee and are just drinking it for the drug, why punish yourself? get some caffeine pills (100 mg) and cut them in half. Take one of the half-doses with your tea and you will be getting the same amount of caffeine. Also, since bitter and sweet are two distinct tastes, adding sugar would not get rid of the bitterness (nor the tannins that cause it!). Adding milk would be another story.
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Post by learnedaboutgrace on Oct 8, 2008 7:31:47 GMT -5
For myself, I was not praying for people to leave the 2x2's, just to come out of the bondage they are under due to the 2x2s...
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Post by rational on Oct 8, 2008 7:34:18 GMT -5
Rational~ With Him nothing is impossible~ 2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. This is not a great feat. The person who you have offended forgives you. Any person could do the same. They could do it with or without the condition that you turn from your wicked ways. I don't know for sure what "heal their land" means. So god has given man free will but if man exercises it he will be punished. That is like telling your toddler they can do as they wish but then punishing them when they do not do as you wish.
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Post by hope on Oct 8, 2008 7:41:09 GMT -5
"We know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies. 2 And if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know. 3 But if anyone loves God, this one is known by Him." 1 Cor 8 vs1
"At that time Jesus made answer and said, I give praise to you, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have kept these things secret from the wise and the men of learning, and have made them clear to little children." Matt 11:25
"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails. . .And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love. -1 Corinthians 13:4-13
"My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you." - John 15:12
"in purity, understanding, patience and kindness; in the Holy Spirit and in sincere love; in truthful speech and in the power of God; with weapons of righteousness in the right hand and in the left" (2 Corinthians 6:6-7).
"Pray with unceasing prayer and entreaty on every fitting occasion in the Spirit, and be always on the alert to seize opportunities for doing so, with unwearied persistence and entreaty on behalf of all God's people" Eph 6:18
His beloved~ Hope
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