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Post by newleaf on Jun 20, 2006 13:31:01 GMT -5
Dale Spencer The foolish things of this world
My thoughts for this afternoon’s meeting are found in 1 Corinthians 1. It says in the 27th verse. "God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the mighty, the base things of the world, things which are despised hath God chosen and yea things which are not to bring to naught the things that are." We had this for a study not so long ago and at first I wondered what I could say about this chapter, then I noticed that this is what God hath chosen. So I thought to myself that I would like to know what God has chosen. You would like to know what God has chosen wouldn’t you? What HAS God chosen and what is God interested in and how does God choose? So I went to work and made a little outline of the four categories here that are spoken about. I put down a few things that I could think of just off the top of my head, that would be under those four categories and since then I have given a bit more thought to that, about the things that God has chosen. Maybe now we could take a little look at those four categories and see what God has chosen. We’d like to have a part in that which God has chosen. We’ve heard so much about choosing our own way and taking our own way that would be leading to destruction but if we could just choose as God chooses and make the will of God the whole purpose of our life, what a glorious future we’ll have. Now that’s what I’ve been hearing in the meetings so far in this place.
So now looking at the first category, it says: "God has chosen the foolish things of this world to confound the wise." So the first thing I took note of was some foolish things. There’s a verse in this very chapter where it says in the 25th verse, "Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men and the weakness of God is stronger than men." Then it says in verse 23, "But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumbling block and unto the Greeks, foolishness." I thought a lot about foolishness but the verse that really stood out to me was that 21st verse, "For after that in the wisdom of God, the world by wisdom knew not God. It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe." In trying to give a bit of my testimony the other evening I was talking about my search for God and then when I finally found Him I saw that He was the Way, the Truth and the Life and He even was the Way for the preacher. That is something that concerned me all my young life. From age 12 I wanted to be a preacher like Jesus but how do you go about it? Then I recognized that Jesus is the pattern for the preacher. Well it says here that it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. Now maybe you can imagine how I felt a few weeks after I professed and I read that verse. It has pleased God by the foolishness of preaching - why is preaching foolish? I thought that must be a misprint because surely preaching is not foolishness, but I didn’t understand what that meant at that first reading. It’s not talking about foolishness to God, it says it is the power of God unto salvation, but it is foolishness to men.
When I told my dad I want to go sell my car and preach like Jesus, do you know what he said? "Where are you going to get your donkey son? Where are you going to get your donkey?" He thought that if I went like Jesus I would have to get a donkey. Well it is true that Jesus rode on a donkey but I am sure He rode other ways too but it sounded so foolish to my dad. I said I want to sell my car and go like Jesus and he said, "You will surely travel a lot and you’ll need your car." I said, "Dad I want to go like Jesus. I want to sell all and go like Jesus." Well he said: "Son it is foolish to sell your car." Well I’d have a hard time getting over here in a car from the US! I still don’t need a car but selling my car looked foolish to dad but it was wisdom in the sight of God. I had to sell all I had and give it away. Now I was proud of that little car, a brand new car. I was only 24 and it was my first car and I hated to tell it goodbye. Well it was alright, I was selling all. So I sold my car and away I went, happy as a lark and I have been that way ever since. I really have, in this great work of God. Well this foolishness of preaching is foolishness in the eyes of the world, friends and anything about this ministry doesn’t just add up but it is the power of God unto salvation unto them that believe.
If anyone is interested in the other parts to this I will post it or otherwise can email the whole copy.
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Post by PLEASE on Jun 20, 2006 16:32:45 GMT -5
Please post rest thankyou.
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Post by newleaf on Jun 20, 2006 21:21:16 GMT -5
Now God has chosen some other foolish things. I was thinking about the preaching of the cross that is mentioned in this chapter. In verse 17, "Christ sent me not to baptize but to preach the Gospel. Not with wisdom of words lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect for the preaching of the cross is to them that perish, foolishness but to those which are saved it is the power of God." The preaching of the cross is foolishness to the world but it is the power of God, God’s power is through the Gospel and that is how men are saved. Well that is another thing that is so foolish, the preaching of the cross.
Another one I thought of was self denial. My friends said you don’t need to give up EVERYTHING to go out and preach. So often we have heard that. You don’t need to give up this and you don’t need to give up that. Well we as God’s servants are just happy that we can give it all up and we have no worries about the natural things. That is the way God sent His Son and it is the perfect way. He sent His Son to preach the Gospel and He sent us in like manner, to preach the Gospel. Well this is all foolishness to the world and God has chosen some of these foolish things.
Another thing that I have thought of that is quite foolish in the eyes of the world is separation. You know how young folks feel - I used to think it was strange and I didn’t see why we had to separate ourselves unto God and I don’t see why we can’t go with the crowd and be like the rest of the world and do what the rest of the world does, but what is the point? God believes in separation and God wants to separate the pure from the impure, the good from the evil and the righteous from the unrighteous. God wants a people not tainted by the things of the world that would not be good but He wants us to have the marks of the children of God. It is a separate people that God is calling into His Kingdom. It is foolishness in the eyes of the world to be different or to separate ourselves unto God but it is the power of God, friends. God has chosen these things that may appear foolish in the eyes of the world, He has chosen them as the hallmark of His Kingdom.
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Post by newleaf on Jun 20, 2006 21:24:05 GMT -5
Now we go to the second category and that was the weak ones. It says there that God has chosen the weak things of this world to confound the things that are mighty. I didn’t have much trouble making a list of quite a few things that God chose that were weak. We heard about the weakness of that little child today and when they wanted to know who was going to be the greatest in the Kingdom and Jesus called a little child and set him in their midst and He said, "He that becometh like this little child, the same shall be the greatest in the Kingdom of heaven." Now that is what God has chosen. God has chosen weakness to manifest His mighty power. Now the little child is the key of the Kingdom. When the Lord sent forth His servants He said, "I am going to send you forth as lambs among wolves." One of these places we visited here in South Africa we saw some wolves and some of these wild dogs. Well I didn’t want to get too close to them. Anyway I thought of a lamb and I have seen lambs born and you know those tiny little legs and when they are first born they are wobbling around trying to find their mother and they are just so weak and wobbly. If you think about a little weak thing that is, but anyway God chose to send His servants out into the world as little lambs into the midst of wolves and the wolves can’t hurt those little lambs because the Lord is with them. The little lambs don’t fear the wolves and they don’t even fear the big wolves and it doesn’t matter because the Lord is with them. The Lord chose a lamb, little children and even a little donkey colt too. Well my dad thought I would have to have a donkey too if I was going to go like Jesus but that donkey colt that Jesus rode, must have looked terribly weak to the Pharisees. If He had to come riding along on a big white horse like a king you know … well here is the King of Israel and all His disciples loudly praising and singing glory to God because here comes thy king, meek and lowly, sitting on a colt, the foal of an ass. Now if you can think of anything weaker than that, the king coming to His nation and riding into Jerusalem, the capital and coming before the people of God riding on a donkey colt, what a weak looking thing and that is how people look on this truth of God. It looks so weak and so helpless but God has chosen the weak things of this world to confound the mighty.
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Post by newleaf on Jun 20, 2006 21:40:28 GMT -5
I have enjoyed this little study and I was thinking about another thing, the death on the cross. Do you think that looked very great? Could you imagine the weakness of the thing when the One who had declared to be the king, the Son of God and the Saviour of mankind, all the great things that Jesus came to be and there He was dying, hanging between two thieves and hanging on the cross. They said "You have saved others now save yourself. Come down from the cross." It looked so terribly weak in the eyes of those Pharisees and those soldiers who had hung Him on the cross. Here He was, this man who had declared that He was the Son of God and He couldn’t save Himself. Well it was a weak thing in the eyes of men but that was the power and strength of God, Jesus giving His life when He could easily have come down and wiped them all out. Here in lowliness and meekness Jesus manifested the power of God. God had chosen the weak things of the world to confound the mighty.
All right, now I just want to tell you two stories. One was of an old worker and he was in his 90’s and he pioneered the work in Mexico, one of the first to go to Mexico. A dear old man and he was in the State of Colorado where I was preaching and where he was raised. Anyway we saw him in Mexico just near the end of his life and I am going to give you a little literal demonstration of him when he was on the platform. He stood at a 90 degree angle. I don’t know if I quite made it to 90 degrees but anyway he was so bent over that they had a terrible time getting the mike down to where he could speak. They did have the mike on the platform and they put it on the floor and set it as low as the could but I thought they would have to dig a hole for it. It was way down. It took two men to get him on the platform but they did get him on the platform all bent over and he opened his mouth and he spoke to us and I do have to confess that I don’t remember what he said, this was a few years ago now, but you know I was in the field around that convention for a little while and there wasn’t a house that we went into that the first thing they said to us, "Did you hear what Louis [Murray] told us?" That whole convention was taken up and fed by what Louis had told us. You talk about weakness. Why, he should have been pensioned off 20 years before this. Any church would have had him pensioned off long ago but God uses the weakest and here was Louis pouring out the last drops of his life. All bent over yet he got on the platform and he fed that convention like no one else that was on the program. God blesses the weakness because He has chosen weakness to confound the mighty.
There was one other thing at about that very same time and out of that very same convention. The lists came out and we are always excited to see the list. We had on the Texas list two young really beautiful, (no kidding), beautiful young sisters. You’d almost have thought that they should be at home with their mothers but they were out in the work, these two beautiful young sisters. One was in a high up position in the bank and the other was a graduate nurse. They were making it all right in the world, very choice young women, but they were the youngest ones on the staff and somehow, I didn’t make the list because I wouldn’t have made it this way but somehow those two young sisters ended up together and guess where they went. They went out to west Texas amongst all those cowboys! I know you’ve seen pictures and I know you’ve read books about cowboys and west Texas and if you think that is a paradise with all those rattlesnakes and what have you in west Texas, you’ve got another think coming. That’s a rough country and rough people. They are civilized but some of them are pretty rough out on some of those great ranches in west Texas and you know what, I said to myself, "That looks like the weakest thing I have ever seen - those two young sisters going out to preach in west Texas." Well do you know what happened? The end of the year when they came to convention those two sisters brought more little lambs than all the brothers put together. Weakness, mighty, mighty weak but God chose the weak things to confound the mighty. I just enjoyed these thoughts and you could add to this list and you could add a number of things that God chose and that God uses weak things to manifest His mighty power.
Now the third one was things that are base and despised and it is not hard to make a list on that category either is it? What does it say about Nazareth, the town where Jesus was brought up? Remember it? It said: Can any good thing come out of Nazareth? They thought He was a Nazarene. Well I tell you that God chose Nazareth, the despised, base little town to bring up His Son and Jesus grew up as a Nazarene - in Nazareth, yes something good came out of Nazareth. Now another thing I was thinking about was, "Do you like blood? What about your own blood?" I tore a hole in my finger the first day I got here and had to go find Debbie to get a Band Aid and she patched me up but the blood was just running all over. You know, I don’t like blood, especially my own. You know that God chose blood and blood is not a very nice thing. God chose the precious blood of the Lamb and that is the price of our redemption. The value of His death on Calvary was the blood that was shed and it is a precious thing. The world likes to trample it under foot but God’s people count His blood and sacrifice the greatest thing of all because it is the price of our redemption. - despised and base but God has chosen blood as the price of our redemption - the precious blood of Jesus.
Well you could think of other things, like suffering. I was thinking about that verse that says they that suffer with Him shall reign with Him. That’s a nice verse but I like the last part but not the first part. How about yourself? You don’t mind reigning with Him but how about the price? Those that suffer with Him shall reign with Him. You know that there is a bit of suffering and we have heard a few testimonies of some who have had to suffer. I can’t say that I have had to suffer a great deal even in the ministry but we have known a measure of reproach and misunderstanding and we have been kicked about a little bit in this work of the Gospel. Those that suffer with Him shall reign with Him, so don’t shrink from the suffering if it is the will of God. Sometimes we just have to go through it, as we have heard in some testimonies in this meeting - losing loved ones and such things. We were coming down the road and here there was an accident and a little child was run over and killed just right ahead of us. We saw the mother leaving the scene and you should have seen her. The little children were scattering to go tell their mothers that some little child had been killed. Well there is lots of suffering in this world but suffering leads to reigning in the house of God. God allows some suffering for our good, as we have heard.
Another thing that the world doesn’t like too well is humility. Honestly humility is one of the greatest things in the Kingdom of God, it really must be because God loves the humble and He exalts the humble and He is going to abase the proud. We’ve been hearing about that but God has chosen the humble in His Kingdom to manifest His power and glory. We’ve talked about those three. We talked about foolishness that God has chosen and many things could be added to that list.
We have talked about the weak things that God has chosen and we have talked about the base and the despised things like the blood and the sacrifice and the suffering and in these categories one could add many things but it is the last one that I wanted to stress and speak about in closing and that one we can read together. In verse 28 it says, "Yea and the things which are not to bring to naught the things that are." Same pronunciation, in our English. God has chosen that and I thought to myself, "What in the world is this?" Do you understand that verse? God has chosen the things that are not to bring to nothing the things that are. What’s that all about? It is a tricky verse isn’t it? I will tell of a little experience that I think answers it in the best way I could ever imagine. My young companion and I were preaching in a little town. We were staying about five miles away in another town and this little town had a sugar beet factory and everybody in this town worked in the sugar beet factory and we thought that it would be a good thing to try that little town with some Gospel meetings. So we asked the Mayor if he would mind us using the City Hall. They had a nice little City Hall there that was open and available. He said, "Well I wouldn’t mind at all if you boys use that but we would have to have a board meeting and put it to the board." We asked him how many on the board and he said there were seven and they were all working in the sugar factory and it happened that they were working 8 hour shifts all through the day and night and it was pretty hard to catch any of them. They were either going to bed or getting up to go to work all through the day and night and it was pretty hard to catch any of them so we asked him, "Mr. Mayor, if we went over and talked to them would it be okay with you?" He said: "Yes, as far as I am concerned you can use the hall." So it took us the whole week to get those seven men and when we couldn’t see one we saw another and we made a date and saw the next one. But they said: "Well if the mayor said it is all right it is okay with me." So this is what happened as we went to the next man and then the next man also, until we’d seen all the seven men. Maybe it was a mistake but every day we would go into this town and we’d have a different car from the friends as we were staying with different friends and would just borrow their car to run in to this town and try and see one of the men. So we came in with a blue Ford, one day and a black Chevy the next day and a red Plymouth one day and one day we came in with the school bus, on the Saturday. So what happened was that they sent out a warrant to have us investigated as suspicious looking characters. I’d hardly blame them. We’d gone around and knocked on doors and invited the people and this was a few days after we had started. Word came to us that the Sheriff had been looking for us for three days. My young companion had just started in the work and he got that word so he went over to one of our friends as he’d left a shirt with the lady who had said she would wash it for him. I was looking out the window and I saw my young companion coming up the street and he was really coming. He had that shirt on a hanger and it was sticking straight out behind him. He was running so fast and he came dashing into the house where we were staying and between panting said that the sheriff’s been looking for us for three days. I said: "What have you done now?" "I didn’t do nothing. I didn’t do nothing." Bless his heart, I knew he hadn’t done anything but he said the sheriff’s been looking for us for three days. So I said, "Well I wonder what we aught to do. Maybe we should go see him." "Oh no, no, no." He sure didn’t want to go see the sheriff. Well I said, "We’d better go see the sheriff." So we did and we went in to the sheriff’s office and the girl said: "Oh, are you those two preachers? We’ve been looking for you for three days. I says: "Well here we are and she says, "Well sit down right there." She sat us down on the bench and got on the phone and it was hardly three minutes and in walked the sheriff. I wish you could have seen the sheriff. I am just going to describe him to you briefly. He was a man about six feet six tall, half a foot taller than I am and he was immaculately dressed, you should have seen the man. Immaculately dressed in a tan western suit. I think you all know what a western suit is. A beautiful western suit and he had those cowboy boots on and that gave him another two inches at least and then he had this big white hat. Plus the biggest silver star I ever saw, a big, big thing. Well he comes walking in and he says, "Are you those two preachers?" He looked at me because I was the oldest and I said, "Yes sir, we are preachers." "Come into my office," he says and he gets out his clip board and he gets out his report sheet. He sets down in his swivel chair and he sets us one here and one there. He says: "I have got to investigate you men because you have been reported as suspicious looking characters and we want to know what you’re up to." So he says, "Your names please," and he got our names down and then he started asking us questions. He asked us certain questions and they won’t sound so strange to you when I tell you what they were. He says: "What’s the name of your church?" and he looks straight at me and I says "Well sir, we don’t have a name to our church." "No name?" "No sir." "Where’s your church building?" "Well sir we don’t have a church building." "No church building?" " No sir." "Well where’s your seminary? Where do you fellows learn how to preach?" I said "Well sir we don’t have any seminary. We just learn in the school of experience." So he says "Well where’s your home?" "Sheriff we don’t have any home as we just live with our friends and move around amongst our friends. We’ve been preaching around here but we don’t have any home." Well he says "Where is your headquarters?" I could have told him it is in heaven but thought that probably didn’t fit too good. So I said, "We don’t have any earthly headquarters sir." "Don’t have any headquarters? Well then who pays your salary?" I said: "We don’t have any salary." I was just trying to be honest and he says, "Where’s your car right now?" The town in the last place where we were we had raised up two or three little churches there and we were quite excited about that part for a while. There they had a good name for us, they said we’re the three C’s so we were wondering for a while what the three C’s were but after a while we found out. Cattle thieves, there was quite a bit of rustling going on. Car thieves, they figured we were stealing these cars and also Communists because communists weren’t very popular right then. We were supposed to be teaching communism. Anyway that is what they called us and the mail carrier said, this is a bit ridiculous, but I’ll tell you what the mail carrier said. He come by this place where we were having our meetings and pick up the mail that we’d left in the little country store there and then he’d read all the addresses. We weren’t too smart, my young companion and I, we were writing to the sister workers all over the world. We had a bit of free time there so we were writing letters to the sister workers all over the world. We were having a good interesting mission but had a bit of free time. Well he’d come by and seen this so he’d go up and down the mail route and he said, "Those two preachers belong to the Lonely Hearts Club." Anyway we weren’t doing too good but anyway the sheriff asked us those questions and all of a sudden he’d come unwound out of that swivel chair and he came over to me that great big man, came marching over to where I was sitting there and he stuck out that great big hand and took my little hand and he shook it and he said, "Boys I am sorry about this. I want you to accept my apologies. There has been a terrible mistake here." I says "Hey?" I didn’t know what the mistake was but he said, "I have embarrassed you young men and caused all this embarrassment." Then he says "I believe you are the true Servants of God," and he says, "Will you pardon me, and will God forgive me?" That big old sheriff you know, and he says, "Boys, that’s all. You can go now, you are excused, but listen, can I tell you one thing? If anybody in this county ever bothers you again, will you come right straight to me?" I says: "Yes sir, we sure will." So we all had a good smile and we shook hands and we left. Doesn’t that kind of answer the question of the things that God has chosen are the things that are not? The world thinks we are the biggest "Have not’s" in all the world, they think we don’t have anything. Really, from their point of view, as far as the churches are concerned, we DON’T have anything. None of these thing that the sheriff asked, and he asked every question I could think of and I could see the back of his neck was getting kind of red and he was running out of questions and he couldn’t think of any more that he could ask us. So finally I did say this that I forgot to mention, I did say, "Sheriff, maybe if I could just have five minutes or so of your time, I could tell you about our work and you’d understand what we’re doing." He said, "Go ahead young man, go ahead." So I just told him that we both had nice cars once and we sold our cars. We had parents and nice homes, we were living at home and we left our homes. I went with an older man years ago and this young man has just recently gone with me and we have learned in the school of experience what little we know about preaching," and I said, "All last summer we had meetings in Harmony Hall, two blocks up the street." He said: "I knew something was going on up there and I wondered what it was." We’d had meetings there in Harmony Hall for the whole summer. Two blocks up from his police station and had a great mission there. Well, he said "I knew there was something going on up there," but that is as close as he ever got. Anyway that’s when he jumped up and said, "There has been a big mistake here and I want you boys to accept my apologies. We had this warrant sworn out and we had to investigate it but you boys go right on with your work," and he says, "God bless you and you pray for me." Well sheriff Rolander wasn’t as bad as he looked. He near scared us to death when he came walking in there. I just thought I would tell you this little story because that illustrates to me that we are like the ‘have not’s’ and the things the world thinks we need to have, we don’t have any of it and we are just glad we don’t but we have the Lord and we have everything. This is what God has chosen and I really believe that could be the meaning of that verse… God has chosen the things that are not… all these things that they think are important, the choir, the church board, the Sunday school teachers and the ladies aid, the church building and the headquarters, the seminary. The whole thing and they have to have it all - the salary for the preacher and the house for the preacher. We don’t have anything so I think that very well explains that God has chosen the things that are not to bring to nought the things that are. God has chosen the weak things, God has chosen the foolish things, God has chosen the base and despised things. We want to choose what God has chosen. We are so glad that we can read our selves into the Bible and understanding this kind of scripture. I have just enjoyed thinking about this today and passing it on to you.
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Post by Loving it on Jun 20, 2006 22:55:08 GMT -5
Thank you for sharing.
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Post by Thankyou on Jun 21, 2006 5:01:44 GMT -5
Thankyou for answering my request
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Post by newleaf on Jun 21, 2006 7:32:45 GMT -5
You are very welcome.
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Post by CherieKropp on Jun 21, 2006 7:54:55 GMT -5
I don't doubt the authenticity of the above at all. Sounds just like Dale. But could you please tell me where Dale said this, and when? Is this info on the notes you have copied? Thanx. CK
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Post by lol on Jun 21, 2006 8:04:23 GMT -5
SOunds like old Dale. He is a rambler! The older he gets the more he will ramble on...Good man. I just disagree with his views on the ministry.
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Post by curious guest on Jun 21, 2006 8:40:49 GMT -5
Dale is one of those speakers that has some "stock" parts. He'll speak about "The King's Highway" here or there, hither and yon. Then he'll have another one that he uses........and occassionally will use the "The King's Highway" (for example) again, and again.
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Post by newleaf on Jun 21, 2006 9:57:39 GMT -5
Word from my source is that this was spoken at Georgetown, TX convention last year.
Yes, I have to concede that Dale is a stock preacher, often using the same sermon throughout his convention tour the whole season. I remember the one he created around a tour of a gold mine and everyone was talking about it. Then 10 years later he had "refined" it and was still speaking about gold, only had polished it up and you could tell it had been given many times.
That really opened my eyes to the old belief that workers struggled before each convention meeting for "new bread". Granted, some do, but more likely than not, if the sermon was a hit at one place, it will be used again in a different state.
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Post by CherieKropp on Jun 21, 2006 18:12:28 GMT -5
Thanks, newleaf--I want to use a quote from it on TTT, and needed that info to do so.
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Post by faith2 on Jun 24, 2006 2:36:06 GMT -5
Kobus deVilliers The Altar of Obedience
I want to tell you about an experience I had here in Durban many years ago. At that time we still had the convention at Clairwood Racecourse and at that convention my job was to see to the transport - to fetch people at the station and to bring them to the grounds, or to do the shopping. The convention was already on and the kitchen staff realised that they still needed something so they asked me if I would go to town and get this for them. Well I bought this and started on my journey back. Clairwood is a few Kilometres out of the city and soon I realised that there was a car in front of me, I think it was a minibus but I could plainly see that a few nuns were in this car. I was following this car and it just so happened that where I turned left that they turned left and also when I turned right they did and so we continued until eventually we left the city and I was still behind them. Then I started thinking about them. There was such a resemblance to what I was doing and what they were doing. I knew that they too made a sacrifice and they left all the possibilities of making a career, having a home and a family. They have made this sacrifice and given their lives and feel that they are doing it for God’s Kingdom, the same as I did. They were living with a hope in their hearts that God would take notice of this and that God would eventually accept them into His Kingdom and give them a place at His right hand. I knew that they were sincere and sure that what they were busy with was the right thing and I wondered “Am I being very proud of myself to think that MY sacrifice would be accepted and theirs not?” I wondered, would God not take notice of that? They were doing it in all sincerity and would He not take notice of that? It worried me. Well we continued and eventually they continued and I had to turn off but my rest was gone. I didn’t feel so free inside any more and there was this something that worried me a bit. I delivered my goods to the kitchen and I went in to the meeting, which was still on. The last speaker, one of our visiting workers, was already speaking and when I sat down he was just at this portion where he read these verses in Matthew 23. Verse 16 “Woe unto you ye blind guides…” I will just jump to verse 18 “whosoever shall swear by the altar it is nothing but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it he is guilty. Ye fools and blind for whether is greater, the gift or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?” He continued to speak about that and to say that one could bring a very costly gift, very precious, but if you would put this on the wrong altar it would not be accepted but even a lesser gift that is brought to the right altar it will be accepted because it is not the gift that sanctifies the altar but it is the altar that sanctifies the gift. I was in awe that God, so directly, immediately jumped in. He could see that there was something that was worrying me, something that I could not handle and He IMMEDIATELY gave me the message that helped to bring peace back into my heart. That I could understand that this is what God expects of us, to honour the altar. One could be too inclined to look at the gift, that which goes on the altar as if that is the most important thing. He wanted me to realise that it is the altar that sanctifies the gift. I looked up in Exodus where it speaks about the first altar that was made. It says there in Exodus 29 verse 36 “Thou shalt offer every day a bullock for a sin offering for atonement and thou shalt cleanse the altar when thou hast made atonement for it and thou shalt anoint it to sanctify it. Seven days thou shalt make atonement for the altar and sanctify it and it shall be an altar most holy. Whatsoever touches the altar shall be holy. ” God said this had to be done. This altar was there, it was made out of stone and it was only a stone structure, until it was sanctified, until everything was done that God commanded should be done to it. There was a sacrifice brought unto it for seven days, a bullock, and eventually it was anointed, atonement was made for it and it was sanctified and declared holy, MOST holy. So holy that everything that would touch the altar would be holy. We read in Hebrews 13 verse 9 “Be not carried about with diverse and strange doctrines for it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace and not with meats which have not profited them which have been occupied therein. We have an altar of whereof they have no right to eat who serve the tabernacle.” We have an altar, a different altar. Not an altar built of stone but an altar which God approved of. So much so that He could lay His Son upon that altar. The greatest sacrifice that ever was brought and that altar was the altar of obedience. His Son was obedient. It says there in Philippians, and I often think of that part, where Paul says “Let this mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus who being in the form of God thought it not robbery to be equal with God but made Himself of no reputation and took upon Himself the form of a servant” and it says “He became obedient, humbled Himself and became obedient, even the death of the cross, wherefore God hath also highly exalted Him and given Him a name above every name. That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow. Things in heaven, things on the earth and even things under the earth.” He became obedient, obedient unto death. This was the altar on which this supreme sacrifice was laid, this altar of obedience. He was obedient although it cost Him so much, He had such a high position in heaven, He could have had a glory equal to what God had and yet He was willing to give that all up because God asked Him to do so and because of the love in His heart He came down to this world to be humbled, humiliated, hated, scorned and eventually to be nailed to a cross to die for our sins. God saw that sacrifice and it was a sacrifice so great, so holy, so noble, so that no other sacrifice could ever equal it. God thought that this was so great a sacrifice that no other sacrifice could ever be laid upon this altar, this altar of obedience. It says here in this verse in Hebrews that we have this altar whereof they have no right to eat which serve in the tabernacle. It also says not to be carried about with diverse and strange doctrines because it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace and not with meats which hath not profited them. It is a good thing that the heart be established. It is a good thing that the heart finds its comfort, be steadied, be assured because of grace, because of this grace, which has been bestowed upon us, because of what the Lord Jesus did. Let us find our strength there, find our comforts there and not in meats, not in the gifts. Sometimes we can make so much of it and we think of all that we have done. We could almost call it what we have sacrificed. We shouldn’t even use that word because what we do is so very little and God is not impressed at all by what I bring and what you bring. Our sacrifice doesn’t count at all, it is just that which the Lord Jesus brought that impresses God. The only thing that we can do, what we may do, we may come forward and we may touch this altar. Not with our hands but touch it with our hearts. With this feeling of gratitude that He gave this sacrifice and God’s heart was moved to forgive the sins of all the world, because of that sacrifice. The only thing that we can do is to humbly come forward with reverence, and touch this altar because they that touch this altar would be holy. I hope that God would help us not to be carried away, as it says here, by strange doctrines “Be not carried away with diverse and strange doctrines.” There is this inclination amongst some and they have their eyes fixed upon other strange doctrines. It appears that they give so much, they do so much, they bring greater sacrifices. They can heal the sick and they do so much for the poor and they have their eyes fixed on some kind of a gift and think that God could be impressed by that, but God is not impressed by that. He is impressed by that which the Lord Jesus did and the only thing that we can do is humbly come forward and touch that altar. May God help us that this morning too, that this would be our purpose and that we would see the beauty of this altar and come forward in such a way and touch it that we may receive this holiness.
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Post by Juniper on Jun 24, 2006 4:19:13 GMT -5
"Thanks, newleaf--I want to use a quote from it on TTT, and needed that info to do so. "
Is the hearsay of an anonymous board sufficient evidence of the authenticity of a document?
Is this a lowering of TTT standards?
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Post by a believer on Jun 24, 2006 4:32:54 GMT -5
That sermon shows me that there is still no meat in their preaching. And hasn't it been on here before?
If this is considered a good sermon then I would not like to see a bad one. No meat. Just all about them. He talks about the sacrifice of Jesus then relates it to their own sacrifice. Why do they have to interpret and reinterpret it until it becomes all about them. Why can't they just preach about Jesus and his scrifice, why do they always have to turn it around and make it all about them?
When I first went to a church I noticed that the pastor spoke from the Bible. He explained the Bible, he didn't reinterpret it to fit in with his own ideas. He didn't use the Bible to talk about himself but about Jesus only.
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Post by a believer on Jun 24, 2006 4:41:18 GMT -5
The second sermon by faith2 is a lot better than the one by Dale Spencer. The later starts off about his sacrifice and then turns it to Jesus sacrifice which is better than how Dale starts off with talking about Jesus then turns it to himself. Of course this last guy has to put in a bit about other people being wrong and him being right...a bit more truth in teh second speaker
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Post by Greg Lee unplugged on Jun 24, 2006 11:48:04 GMT -5
Dale is one of those speakers that has some "stock" parts. He'll speak about "The King's Highway" here or there, hither and yon. Then he'll have another one that he uses........and occassionally will use the "The King's Highway" (for example) again, and again. I heard one worker speak in a few special meetings. He related his life story to that of coming to the workers' church (or as he put it, God's family. At various times he cried. Was quite a touching story. The next year in another state the same worker was in that state's special meetings. He spoke the same story and did the same crying. I know another that told me 'I've never been in the same field this long...I only have three years of sermons".
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Post by ex-teenager on Jun 24, 2006 13:30:35 GMT -5
Dale is one of those speakers that has some "stock" parts. He'll speak about "The King's Highway" here or there, hither and yon. Then he'll have another one that he uses........and occassionally will use the "The King's Highway" (for example) again, and again. I heard one worker speak in a few special meetings. He related his life story to that of coming to the workers' church (or as he put it, God's family. At various times he cried. Was quite a touching story. The next year in another state the same worker was in that state's special meetings. He spoke the same story and did the same crying. I know another that told me 'I've never been in the same field this long...I only have three years of sermons". Question. Does the story become less touching the more it is told?
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Post by CherieKropp on Jun 24, 2006 21:57:12 GMT -5
To Juniper: RE: Is the hearsay of an anonymous board sufficient evidence of the authenticity of a document? Is this a lowering of TTT standards?
A; The "anonymous" source is known to me. I happen to know "newleaf".
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Post by you are so funny on Jun 24, 2006 22:16:38 GMT -5
Word from my source is that this was spoken at Georgetown, TX convention last year. Yes, I have to concede that Dale is a stock preacher, often using the same sermon throughout his convention tour the whole season. I remember the one he created around a tour of a gold mine and everyone was talking about it. Then 10 years later he had "refined" it and was still speaking about gold, only had polished it up and you could tell it had been given many times. That really opened my eyes to the old belief that workers struggled before each convention meeting for "new bread". Granted, some do, but more likely than not, if the sermon was a hit at one place, it will be used again in a different state. It amazes me that when one person does something that suits our agenda we group the rest of the others with them. Do you think that is really fair? You need to get your head and heart of the backwards ways of eastern Kentucky!
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Post by faith2 on Jun 25, 2006 7:35:07 GMT -5
JOHAN KOTZE Gospel Mtg Durban 06:
Those words in Psalm 149 verse 4 says: "The Lord taketh pleasure in His people, He will beautify the meek with salvation." Then Paul wrote to Titus and he spoke about those who were just servants, perhaps the lowest class in the Roman Empire, and he said that they would live in a way that would adorn the Gospel of God.
It may not be difficult to convince most people in this tent tonight that Jesus is the Truth and the Life and the Way that leads to God, those that would believe that in following Him that it is true, but there may be some that are not convinced that this thing is not only right but that is the most glorious thing on earth that God is calling us to. He’s calling us not to rob us, not to take all joy and contentment and peace from our lives, but to give us that that will make us beautiful people not only in this life. There is no cosmetic that can do for a person’s face what peace of heart can do - none, but that’s just ‘by the way’. It speaks of the day when He comes again and when He will be admired by all those who loved His appearing. There is no beauty to be compared with that - no glory that this earth can ever offer that can touch it. "He will beautify the meek with salvation." I just thought of a few of our friends and some may know these stories, these incidents.
There was a jeweller in Capetown who was a very faithful man. Then one day the boss, called the staff together just to teach them a few tricks of the trade, on how to sell a diamond. When he had finished speaking, this man stood up and he said, "Sir, I am sorry but I cannot do what you expect us to do." The boss was furious and he said: "What do you mean?" He answered: "I cannot live with double standards. You expect us to be honest and trustworthy to you, and dishonest to your clients" and he said: "I cannot do that" so in a rage he dismissed the meeting and this man went home and said to his wife "I think I am without a job." So the next day he went to work and he was hardly there when there was an announcement and he was called to the manager’s office and he thought: "Well here it is. This is it." He went in and closed the door behind him and sat down. His boss pulled open a drawer in his desk and he took out a bunch of keys and flung them across the desk. A kind of uncouth man, and he said: "I have been looking for a long time to find a trustworthy man to entrust these to. You are the man." His honesty, his truthfulness didn’t put him at a disadvantage and he was honoured above everyone else in that office.
There was another man in Bulawayo, who was an insurance agent and it came to a time when he considered retirement and the general manager of ‘Legal and General’ called him into the office and he said "Please don’t close your office because we cannot afford to take your name off our stationery and we cannot afford to take your name off that office door. Even if you come in just for a few hours a week, but please don’t close your office because we need your name on our stationery and on your office door." He also said "That young girl that is working for you, could she please come and work at the head office? We need honest people like that." Those were two who in sincerity served God and they never thought that anybody took notice of them but the Lord was beautifying the meek with salvation and made their lives attractive even to unregenerate eyes. Even people who were not quickened by God’s Spirit could see that whatever it is these people have, there is something beautiful about their lives. The beauty of God’s people is seen in their gentleness.
We’ve heard about Isaiah 53 and growing up like a tender plant and I remember a brother once saying that the Lord Jesus wasn’t just pushed around in His lifetime. He knew when to be tough and He knew when to be tender. There was a balance and when it came to the standards of the Kingdom, to His father’s will and the plan of salvation He was tough, no budging. They looked at Him, just a tender shoot and they thought: "Well it is easy to get Him out of the way" but it wasn’t so easy because He stood firm. When it came to personal insults and people despising Him, when it came to taking the place of a servant there was a tenderness about Him that was very, very wonderful. With God’s people, when there’s that same tenderness, gentleness about us, the same power, "Strong in the strength of gentleness of meekness faith and love" there is nothing more powerful, nothing more adorable than just that. Sometimes we have looked at people and admired some of these Godly qualities in their lives and we know that we are not up to that standard yet. We also know that it didn’t just happen and they weren’t born like that but there was a deep work going on in the soul to bring that about. At the same time it is available to all who will be willing to follow in the same way. There is a beauty about the joy of God’s people, about the contentment of God’s people and about their influence - too much to go into now in depth, but a beauty that even in this life, cannot be equalled by anything else. Contentment makes the poor person rich while discontentment makes the rich man poor. When God’s people really have the root of this matter in their lives there is the beauty of contentment. We don’t want anything else. We don’t want anything more but we only want more of Him, of Christ.
We heard about Matthew 5,6 and 7 and the Lord Jesus saying about the two ways - the narrow way and the broad way, and I thought of a few things that we read in those chapters about the narrow way and why it is narrow to the human way of thinking and glorious to God’s people at the same time - a way that the people of the world can see nothing in but self denial and, as we heard, the greatest ‘have-nots’ in the world as far as they’re concerned. You don’t have this and you don’t have that. You can’t have this and you can’t have that…. and who said so anyway? As we read in Matthew 5 "Blessed are the poor in Spirit…blessed are the meek. It’s a way of the heart, a condition of the heart that makes it possible for us to walk this way and it is that very condition that makes God’s people more beautiful than any people in all the earth. There is one translation for that little phrase ‘the poor in Spirit’ that says: "Blessed are those who realise how poor they are in the sight of God." That’s where it all starts. If we don’t get to that point where we understand how poor we are and how empty life is and how hopeless eternity without God, that’s where it starts. To God’s people it is the sweetest thing on earth when in all humility we discover His presence for the first time and the sweetness of that. To the world is it a despicable thing to humble yourself. This Way, God’s Way, is a Way that often leads to persecution, misunderstanding, ridicule…and that’s not pleasant to the human. To the human mind that makes the Way very narrow and very unattractive, but we read of those who rejoiced that they were counted worthy to suffer a little for His sake. Have you ever tasted that sweetness? The sweetness of this lowly Way, knowing that while people despise you that you have fellowship with the One who showed us this Way - the lowly man of sorrows. It is not an easy thing for a young boy to have his mother tell him how wrong he is, how he was mislead and that he was on the wrong track. (Johan didn’t say so but this happened to him when he professed). It is not an easy thing but there is a sweetness in it at the same time. It is a bittersweet experience that only the true people of God know.
We have heard that some are in the Way ‘in a way’ and those who are in the Way like that they won’t know about suffering, they won’t know about reproach because they are not very different from the world anyway. Then there are those who are in the Way ‘all the way’ because they see the Way not as a group of people, not as a doctrine, not as a gathering of people in homes with preachers that go two by two. They see it as the life, as the doctrine, as the Spirit of Jesus Christ, nothing less. There is something glorious about that because no fault can be found with that. It cannot be attacked and it need not be defended against malicious talk in the world today. It is forever sure at the right hand of God the Father and it cannot be touched. When we have seen the glory, that glory, of the truth of God then nothing can be more wonderful than serving God in Spirit and in Truth.
The Lord Jesus said: "Unless your righteousness exceed the righteousness of the Scribes and the Pharisees…" In what sense did it have to exceed? Not in quantity, not in blazoning it around, not in making a show of it but in the quality of it, in quietness. We heard once that nobody in this Way is too young to be an example and nobody is too old to pray and nobody is too handicapped to be faithful. The only true handicap is a wrong attitude and if our attitude is selfish… what I can get out of this and that people should see me and honour me for what I do, for what I know…that is the righteousness of the Scribes and the Pharisees and that is a great handicap. If our attitude is one of obedience and willingness… whatever the Lord says and wherever the Lord leads we will follow.
It was once said "How far was the ‘far country’ from the father’s house? What was the distance that the prodigal had to return? What was the distance? That distance was not measured in miles or kilometres but it was in the condition of the heart, in attitude. The moment his attitude changed, the moment he came to himself, the moment he realised his true condition, how poor he was, that was the beginning of his salvation and it could also be just one step away for anybody in this tent tonight. Just one-step away, just a change of attitude - not miles away, not light years away but just one step, a change of attitude. It says there that when you bring your gift to the altar, you remember there, it is a way of peace and reconciliation and forgiveness, while it is a burdensome thing for people who are not willing to serve God, they like to hold a grudge, they like to take revenge but to God’s people, what could be sweeter than forgiveness, obtaining forgiveness and forgiving from the heart. It is not difficult to forgive a childlike person and it is not difficult for a childlike person to forgive another. It is the sweetest thing that can possibly be. These are the things that make the Way of God narrow in the eyes of the people of the world and makes it the most glorious thing to the people of God.
It is a way of purity as far as marriage is concerned and we might as well mention that too. Read what Jesus said - those words have never been changed. They are as true tonight as what they were when Jesus spoke them. It is a way of purity, a glorious thing, a beautiful thing. It’s a way of prayer. People in the broad way also pray, yes - long prayers and repetitive prayers and prayers to be seen of men but this Way is narrow when it comes to prayer. You know, the Lord Jesus said STRIVE to enter in, strive to enter in by the straight gate, straight means narrow. If we don’t strive and if we don’t put our all into it, that word seems to mean just giving your all, not just half-hearted effort. Strive with all that is in you, strain every muscle, strain every nerve. To pray like that may seem a very narrow way for those who are unwilling for God’s conditions but it is the most glorious thing to God’s true people. It is the sweetest thing to truly have fellowship with God in secret. It makes it the most glorious thing. The best that is to be found in this Way and the very thing that makes the Way narrow to the people of the world makes it a glorious Way to God’s people and it beautifies their lives. There is far more in Matthew 5,6 &7 and it is a very nice study to make of what makes this Way so narrow and unacceptable to the world yet so glorious to the people of God. Have you ever proved the sweetness of Saviour’s lowly way? Have you?
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Post by newleaf on Jun 25, 2006 20:28:31 GMT -5
Word from my source is that this was spoken at Georgetown, TX convention last year. Yes, I have to concede that Dale is a stock preacher, often using the same sermon throughout his convention tour the whole season. I remember the one he created around a tour of a gold mine and everyone was talking about it. Then 10 years later he had "refined" it and was still speaking about gold, only had polished it up and you could tell it had been given many times. That really opened my eyes to the old belief that workers struggled before each convention meeting for "new bread". Granted, some do, but more likely than not, if the sermon was a hit at one place, it will be used again in a different state. It amazes me that when one person does something that suits our agenda we group the rest of the others with them. Do you think that is really fair? You need to get your head and heart of the backwards ways of eastern Kentucky! What has this got to do with eastern Kentucky anyway? I did not group them ALL together! I said "some do"
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Post by sex appeal on Jun 25, 2006 23:34:37 GMT -5
Young & pretty sister workers are more likely to win converts than old bent-back geezers. Sex appeal wins over old men any day..
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Post by Return to the fold on Jun 25, 2006 23:49:59 GMT -5
There you have it: It has just proven that the truth is THE TRUTH. Unless you have heard the gospel through the workers you have been led to believe a false gospel. Heed the words of Dale Spencer, and return unto the 2x2 fold.
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