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Post by gop on Oct 5, 2004 15:47:56 GMT -5
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Post by Robb Klaty on Oct 6, 2004 7:33:28 GMT -5
Now I am confused... it seems that I both agree with Kerry and disagree with him on the very same issues. When you hear his words "I have always been consistant"... get ready for a new position. Robb
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Post by Just Here on Oct 6, 2004 8:44:40 GMT -5
Now I am confused... it seems that I both agree with Kerry and disagree with him on the very same issues. When you hear his words "I have always been consistant"... get ready for a new position. Robb In my limited capacity to understand complex ideas, it seems that it is a better trait to stop every now and then, re-evaluate your position, and make corrections based on any new facts that may have presented themselves since you made your last stand. The Ptolemaic system functioned well until the publication of De revolutionibus orbium coelestium by Mikotaj Kopérnik, along with the work of many others, proved that Aristotle was mistaken in some of his thinking. The Catholic Church, after many years did change its stance but only after punishing hundreds who had the fortitude to state publicly that they had changed their belief system. Some put forth Bush's one track unchanged thinking as a positive trait. I have not yet heard him admit that there were any mistakes so the chances of his changing his policy to fit the available facts seems to be a distant hope. His method seems to be to spin the facts to fit his actions or to ignore the initial stated goals and point out the results as if they had been the original goals. Many people have changed their minds. Although in general I am opposed to war and think killing people is the absolute last resort, I supported the invasion into Iraq when the information at hand said there were WMD and that there were terrorist ties etc. that put the country in immediate danger. As the facts became known, it seems that there were some errors in the reports. Time to re-evaluate the plan. Unfortunatly, we are in a quagmire than makes it difficult to change course without making the lives of millions as bad as, if not worse than, before we went and killed tens of thousands and destroyed a considerable amount of property. On the positive side, Saddam never did unleash his WMDs on the US.
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Post by Robb Klaty on Oct 6, 2004 21:38:30 GMT -5
Thats one way to spin it.
Yes, Kerry seems to re-evalute his position on a nearly daily basis. He's for the war, then against it when he needs to beat Dean, then for it when he needs the support of middle America, then against it when he needs to enegize his base, then for it when his poll numbers are slipping again, then against it on days when the war appears to be going badly, then for it when talking to veterans, then against it...
Stay tuned to see how this principled man re-evalutes his position again tomorrow and changes his mind again with the political winds of the day.
Robb
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Post by American on Oct 8, 2004 11:04:05 GMT -5
Kerry's wrongs in no way make Bush's wrongs right.
Bush's unwillingness to relook at issues as new facts become avaliable is very scary to me.
This is by no means fact and is my opinion but i'd rather error on the side of changing too much rather than not changing enough or at all in the case of Bush. I realize not everyone will hold that opinion but that is what makes America great.
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Post by Robb Klaty on Oct 8, 2004 11:24:23 GMT -5
Then why don't you join me in voting for Peroutka if you really want to err on the side of change. Robb www.peroutka2004.com
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Post by American on Oct 8, 2004 16:37:22 GMT -5
On a personal level i agree with what he's for, however I beleive in seperation of church and state. His platform worries me that he wouldn't keep them as seperate as I would like.
I beleive the Church is a very important check to the state but to combind the two is to iliminate that. I'm also not aware (off the top of my head) of any good longterm examples of church and state being one and the same that has been good.
Although i suppose it dosn't really matter who I vote for as i'm not even close to being in a swing state, at least there are some close state races.
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Post by Robb Klaty on Oct 8, 2004 17:35:50 GMT -5
Ah yes... seperation of church and state.
I would encourage you to do a study of what the founding fathers were refering to with this phrase. I have concluded through my studies that they did not mean to keep God out of government, but rather to prevent the establishment of state sanctioned denominations. The intent of the founding fathers was to keep the state out of the church... a premise which Peroutka agrees with strongly.
Robb
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Post by American on Oct 8, 2004 18:48:45 GMT -5
I'm sure your correct on that, i'm sorry i didn't make myself clear.
I'm for keeping the state out of the church (arn't we all). I'm also for keeping the church out of the state. I don’t believe we should legislate morality no matter how strong I personly feel about the matter.
To make myself clear for others. Stealing is wrong no matter where you come from. Some people think being a homosexual is ok, others do not.
One is ok to legislate the other is not (this is my opinion), regardless of my opinion or my religious convinctions.
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Post by Robb Klaty on Oct 8, 2004 22:54:53 GMT -5
Every law is an imposition of someones "morality" on others. Even a traffic light law imposes morality. It imposes the principles of order, safety, protection of property, etc. The question is only whos morality will be imposed. I am for the proposition that God's Word ought to be our standard of morality. Others argue for a different standard but often have difficulty explaining their core basis behind their beliefs. For example, what is your core basis for suggesting that stealing is wrong?
Robb
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Post by American on Oct 9, 2004 12:22:06 GMT -5
There is definitely things that don’t fit very well however you look at it like traffic safety.
It’s been awhile but I had a class that dealt with morality some. The research suggests that there are some common basic things that are held by all societies. Murder, stealing and I forget what else are common things within all societies. They don’t always apply or apply differently to others outside their societies though.
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Post by Robb Klaty on Oct 9, 2004 22:00:08 GMT -5
American,
What is your standard of right and wrong again?
Robb
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