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Post by heavyheart on Sept 12, 2004 15:27:06 GMT -5
How do you deal with your child, after being married for years and has children, divorce and comes to you and tell you they are gay? I am having a breakdown over this. It is too hard to take. Can anyone help?
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Brenda
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Post by Brenda on Sept 12, 2004 16:00:25 GMT -5
I am sure it is a very hard situation- and not one that any parent wants to go through-- but I am sure this is the last thing your child wants to go through also--
Love them no matter what and listen-- JMO
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Post by Robb Klaty on Sept 12, 2004 17:27:30 GMT -5
Love the sinner, hate the sin.
Robb
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Post by BruceTenniswood on Sept 12, 2004 17:50:03 GMT -5
Heavyheart, this is a subject that creates quite a stir and cannot be fully appreciated by anyone that hasn't been through it. However, I have watched a mother go through this exact situation, and I can say that after the tears, the guilt, the questions of 'what did I do wrong' she finally accepted the fact that her child is what she is. There is light at the end of the tunnel. Just be there for your child regardless - 100%. Don't ask questions, especially of yourself, just concentrate on loving them through their situation and ask God for help in keeping a right spirit.
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Post by heavyheart on Sept 12, 2004 19:14:10 GMT -5
Thanks everyone, I will try harder to understand and be there for my child. Yes, tears, guilt - I've had it all. I need to pray.
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Post by Heather on Sept 12, 2004 20:03:38 GMT -5
I think you have been given great advice. Unconditional love is what a parent does best!
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Cindi
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Post by Cindi on Sept 12, 2004 23:07:29 GMT -5
I have two gay cousins - both very open although their professing mother refuses to even hear of it.
I could tell you that I always knew they were gay, but I don't know why my Aunt refuses (when the entire family knows) to at least try to understand her kids. She just scoffs it off.
You have my sympathy. Be the mom you have always been to them - they in fact need your love and support now more than ever. Don't worry about what other people think.
Cindi
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Post by Robb Klaty on Sept 13, 2004 13:56:50 GMT -5
Heavyheart,
What a awful, troubling thing to go through. I personally would not treat such a child any differently than if they where an adulterer, or thief, etc. The fact that sodomy is a sin (just like extra marital sex with the opposite sex) should not be overlooked, nor should the fact that God has given us power over sin through the blood of Jesus if we will repent. Please, please, please for the sake of his or her soul don't excuse the sin or leave Jesus out of the equation. I know that if such were the case with one of my children, I would be more concerned with their soul than appearing "tolerant" before our politically correct culture.
Blessings,
Robb
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Post by Just Here on Sept 13, 2004 14:42:16 GMT -5
Heavyheart, What a awful, troubling thing to go through. I personally would not treat such a child any differently than if they where an adulterer, or thief, etc. The fact that sodomy is a sin (just like extra marital sex with the opposite sex) should not be overlooked, nor should the fact that God has given us power over sin through the blood of Jesus if we will repent. Please, please, please for the sake of his or her soul don't excuse the sin or leave Jesus out of the equation. I know that if such were the case with one of my children, I would be more concerned with their soul than appearing "tolerant" before our politically correct culture. Blessings, Robb It is a sad thing to consider something that may well be at least partially genetically determined to be a sin and force the child or person to deal with the guilt of feelings that maybe well beyond their control. It harkens back to the time when epilepsy was thought to be caused by evil possession and those effected were punshed for their sins.
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Forget biblical implications
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Post by Forget biblical implications on Sept 13, 2004 18:22:53 GMT -5
The child may not be religious. It is harder on the professing parent to deal with the biblical implications of being gay.
One may not understand personally given their beliefs that this "sin" is "sin" in their eyes - Not always "sin" in the eyes of the gay person. There are many many gay people who believe in God, and Jesus, and they consider themselves Christian, just as anyone else.
It isn't always that you have to appear "tolerant" before our politically correct culture", although with the laws changing and protections being placed in force to protect their rights and their choices, you better get used to having to deal with it.
As a Christian, you really have to be able to not judge others who don't believe exactly as you do. This is one of those areas where it is best to not judge the forgiveness of God but to allow Him to take them under His care. Being gay doesn't mean you won't go to heaven - not one man alive can make that stand - it's for God alone to know that.
If your children decide a gay life style is what they want, your best lot would be to explain that although you don't agree with their choice, you will try to be supportive and caring. This is the best thing to do both as a parent, and as a Christian.
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Post by Robb Klaty on Sept 13, 2004 19:10:18 GMT -5
It is a sad thing that you have apparently bought into this idea which is a feeble attempt to shift responsability for ones actions. Of course even if I were somehow genetically determined to be a murderer it wouldn't and shouldn't matter... it (murder) is still a sin. Btw, I am likely genetically predisposed to adultery, being a hetrosexual male... that of course would not excuse the sin of adultery.
I love how this is brought up in an attempt to prove some sort of point. Of course having a seisure (sp?)is not a sin according to the Bible. Sodomy and adultery however are.
It pains my heart to see folks excuse or attempt to redifine sinful behavior thereby invalidating the need for repentance and a Savior.
God help us all.
Robb
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Post by Robb Klaty on Sept 13, 2004 19:15:17 GMT -5
What an interesting judgement you make! If God calls something a sin and I agree that God is right, that makes me judgemental? If so according to your definition, then so be it. It sounds like you might have a problem with what God is saying not me. Robb
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Post by Just Here on Sept 14, 2004 9:02:36 GMT -5
It is a sad thing that you have apparently bought into this idea which is a feeble attempt to shift responsability for ones actions. This is one of those areas that we will have to wait and see if the work under investigation shows that there is a genetic connection or not. If it does turn out that a person's sexual preferences are inherited just as the color of his skin are then we will have to all rethink, as we rethought the color issue in the past, what is normal and what is not normal regarding same sex attraction. I, for one, am not trying to shift any blame because I am not blaming anyone for their sexual orientation any more than I would try to blame someone for a speech impediment. Do you have any data to back up this claim? Can you show that the trait of adultery is genetically linked or do you think that being a male is the link? The facts do not support your claims. Studies show that. on average, 70% of males and 50% of females commit adultery. When comparing men and women in equal situations, that is, when women have the same means and opportunity as their male counterparts, there is little difference in fidelity. This is very true since it was not considered a seizure but rather a sign that the person was possessed. Being possessed and not getting rid of the evil spirit meant you were allowing it to stay and that was the sin. Many died as the good people tried to remove the evil spirit. Many of the "facts" quoted in the bible are based on incomplete knowledge of the world and universe. The earth does move. I am not sure this is the intent. If sexual tendency is inherited their is little a person can do about it and lust in the heart is the same as committing the sin. Following your logic there are many people guilty of lustful thoughts concerning sodomy that they have no control over and are present in their makeup as a result of the Creator. It seems that the option is to say that the meaning given to sodomy in the Bible may have been misread or that the Creator has made an error in His creation of these people. The research is new. But it is pointing in the direction of a genetic link. Much like the Catholic Church condemning those who did not place the earth in the center of the universe, in time thinking will have to change to accommodate the facts. God helps those who help themselves.
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Post by happy on Sept 14, 2004 11:48:46 GMT -5
Interesting discussion here. I am in agreement with you, Robb. The Word was, is and always will be. Hate the sin, not the person. With this, as with many things, it seems people pick and choose what to believe out of the Bible according to what the "fashion" of the day is. I do believe some must be genetically predisposed, as some boys are "feminine" at very young ages and girls "masculine" early. I also have heard that due to the amount of hormones in our food (meat, milk, veggies and fruit...watered with ground water that has absorbed sewer water that has birth control etc. in it....), we are complicating children's (and adults) hormone levels. Besides sexual orientation, we have some girls starting their periods in second grade! Whatever the cause, it is hard. And then the same sex couples want children and that is where my soapbox really gets going....
To the mom who started this thread: my prayers are with you. Thankfully, God knows the situation better then any of us and can give you the best advice/guidance. Hugs, Happy
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This thread is sickening
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Post by This thread is sickening on Sept 14, 2004 14:23:10 GMT -5
Interesting discussion here. I am in agreement with you, Robb. The Word was, is and always will be. Hate the sin, not the person. That should be a comfort. Love the person but unless they repent and "change their spots" they are going to hell. It is the natural course of things. It has been around since the beginining of time and despite the hate, the shunning, punishing, torturing, and even killing of those who choose to love regardless of gender, it is still with us. Homosexuality is not a disease and it is not picked up from toilet seats nor from the birth control pills than people take that have somehow made it through the sewer and into drinking water in quantities that change a person's desire. I just got tired of sitting quietly reading words of damnation.
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Post by happy on Sept 14, 2004 14:35:48 GMT -5
That should be a comfort. Love the person but unless they repent and "change their spots" they are going to hell. It is the natural course of things. It has been around since the beginining of time and despite the hate, the shunning, punishing, torturing, and even killing of those who choose to love regardless of gender, it is still with us. Homosexuality is not a disease and it is not picked up from toilet seats nor from the birth control pills than people take that have somehow made it through the sewer and into drinking water in quantities that change a person's desire. I just got tired of sitting quietly reading words of damnation. Well....sin is sin. Adultery, fornication..whatever form of sexual sin you choose, it is still sin. If your spouse cheats on you, do you hate the sin or the sinner? Is there room for forgiveness? Sure. So damnation isn't what is being said here. If I decide to commit adultery, as I am predisposed to do, is it ok if we cut the verses out of the Bible that say it is wrong so I can do it without worrying that I'm sinning? Please say yes, because that would be a great comfort to me to know that my fellow man thinks it is ok and so God will surely honor the popular vote, right? Adultery, gay lifestyles etc. have been around forever and always will be, I agree with you. But that doesn't mean it is right. Being attracted to the same sex and acting on that attraction are two different things. As I said before, thankfully, God can guide better then posters on this board. The pain the Mom, the wife and all others are feeling must be horrendous.
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Post by heavyheart on Sept 14, 2004 14:46:01 GMT -5
The pain the Mom, the wife and all others are feeling must be horrendous.
That is it - horrendous.
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Post by Pain on Sept 14, 2004 15:53:38 GMT -5
The pain the Mom, the wife and all others are feeling must be horrendous. ___________________________________ --------------------------------------------------------
For the mother, exactly what pain would that be? The man is still the woman's son. He is exactly the same as he was before he announced his sexual preference. What is the source of her pain? How does his decision affect her in a negative way? ------------------------------------------- The wife has lost a companion and that loss is direct. It is the same loss that happens in any divorce. The children will have to adjust to seeing their father in a different role but he is still their father and they will always be his children. -------------------------------------------- As to the man, maybe his pain is less. To make a decision of that magnitude he must have been suffering. --------------------------------------------- Divorce is messy and painful to those involved.
The fact the man has changed his sexual orientation is a sidebar to the rest of the drama.
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Post by happy on Sept 14, 2004 16:04:23 GMT -5
The pain the Mom, the wife and all others are feeling must be horrendous. ___________________________________ -------------------------------------------------------- For the mother, exactly what pain would that be? The man is still the woman's son. He is exactly the same as he was before he announced his sexual preference. What is the source of her pain? How does his decision affect her in a negative way? ------------------------------------------- The wife has lost a companion and that loss is direct. It is the same loss that happens in any divorce. The children will have to adjust to seeing their father in a different role but he is still their father and they will always be his children. -------------------------------------------- As to the man, maybe his pain is less. To make a decision of that magnitude he must have been suffering. --------------------------------------------- Divorce is messy and painful to those involved. The fact the man has changed his sexual orientation is a sidebar to the rest of the drama. Your empathy just astounds me.
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Post by Invisible on Sept 14, 2004 16:32:13 GMT -5
"Your empathy just astounds me."
Your explanation eludes me.
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Brenda
Senior Member
Posts: 652
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Post by Brenda on Sept 14, 2004 17:06:06 GMT -5
Wow-- lots of views-- for myself-- I hate anything that comes off as judgemental after being B&R in the 2x2's-- that is the first thing I avoid when contemplating visiting a church.
This person and their family-- ALL are in pain-- not anyone person is in pain more-- except maybe the person that for the first time is admitting who/what he really is--
Love him-- leave the judging up to God--
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Post by Robb Klaty on Sept 14, 2004 23:06:17 GMT -5
Do you reject the Bible on the basis of God's damnation and judgement of sin so obviously seen on the pages?
Yes, the reality would be hard to hear if we were not also aware of God's wonderful plan for releasing us from that awful burden of sin through Jesus.
Robb
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Post by Robb Klaty on Sept 14, 2004 23:21:01 GMT -5
Present,
As I read your post I see that you seem to think there is some point to be made by suggesting that sexual preference can be inherited. This point is lost on me. I do not see much of a distintion between sodomy and adultery. They are both sin because they are sexual activety outside of God's parameters. I would no more defend adultery than sodomy. You are correct that even the thought can be a sin (as Jesus tought)... a sin which I have had to repent of and get power over. But the power is there in Christ if we would only repent and believe.
Robb
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Post by Just Here on Sept 15, 2004 12:00:26 GMT -5
Present, As I read your post I see that you seem to think there is some point to be made by suggesting that sexual preference can be inherited. This point is lost on me. I do not see much of a distintion between sodomy and adultery. They are both sin because they are sexual activety outside of God's parameters. I would no more defend adultery than sodomy. You are correct that even the thought can be a sin (as Jesus tought)... a sin which I have had to repent of and get power over. But the power is there in Christ if we would only repent and believe. Robb My point was that if it does turn out that sexual attraction is a genetic trait then it would be difficult to call homosexuality a sin. "Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots?" If homosexuality is genetically determined then the individual is essentially born to failure. Of course, there is the other question that raises its thorny head in any discussion. Exactly what do you mean by sodomy? You have called sodomy a sin, not homosexuality which is very different from the act of sodomy. From a medical standpoint sodomy can be any of three things: 1.) Anal copulation of one male with another. 2.) Anal or oral copulation with a member of the opposite sex. 3.) Copulation with an animal. One scientific definition of sodomy is sexual intercourse that is not the union of the genital organs of a man and a woman. To the police and legal profession sodomy is the crime of oral or anal sexual contact or penetration between persons or of sexual intercourse between a person and an animal; especially the crime of forcing another person to perform oral or anal sex. I think that calling sodomy a sin might be casting a very wide net that would include acts that perhaps even you would not consider sins. Regarding your comparison between sodomy and adultry - they are different in the fact that sodomy does not depend on any legal sanctions, that is marriage, and is defined as an act whereas adultry is an act, sexual intercourse, that is legal but for the existance of legal/moral contracts. I hate to ask but how do you define sodomy when you use the term?
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Post by jh62 on Sept 23, 2004 22:25:28 GMT -5
I'm sorry I didn't read this post sooner, and it seems as though it's a little late to post on this now, but I just wanted to say how much I feel for you, heavyheart, (and your son....I'm sure he's had a difficult time too.) Some of the things that we go through as parents seem almost unbearable and overwhelming at times. But I think it's during those times that we learn life's most valuable lessons, whether it be unconditonal love, or humility, or empathy, or whatever. I know that it's hard to see through the darkness, but just know that whatever you learn from this experience will be a gift more precious than gold.
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The Jump to Conclusion
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Post by The Jump to Conclusion on Sept 24, 2004 9:25:29 GMT -5
(and your son....I'm sure he's had a difficult time too.) How do you know it is a male and not a female. I think the original poster just said 'child'. Rob has assumed that and leveled the sin of sodomy against the child even thought I don't recall there being any biblical restriction regarding sex between women. Perhaps some of these biblical restrictions are outdated and should be reconsidered in light of current knowledge. I like my domett and linsey-woolsey!
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Post by jh62not signed in on Sept 24, 2004 17:04:01 GMT -5
You're right...I just assumed because some of the posts. I stand corrected.
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Post by Robb Klaty on Sept 24, 2004 23:27:29 GMT -5
Obviously you must reject the fact that the Bible is God inspired (II Tim 3.16).
It is interesting that you put such stock in mans "current knowledge" that you apparently consider it to be absolute truth.
Robb
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