|
Post by inatent on Jun 9, 2004 12:16:29 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by no name on Jun 10, 2004 16:05:15 GMT -5
It's worth posting the info shared in the link
WORLD WAR THREE WW III
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 05:56:24 -0400
Not very long, but very informative. You have to read the catalogue of events in this brief piece. Then, ask yourself how anyone can take the position that all we have to do is bring our troops home from Iraq, sit back, re-set the snooze alarm, go back to sleep, and no one will ever bother us again. In case you missed it, World War III began in November 1979... that alarm has been ringing for years.
U.S. Navy Captain Ouimette is the Executive Officer at Naval Air Station, Pensacola, Florida. Here is a copy of the speech he gave last month. It is an accurate account of why we are in so much trouble today and why this action is so necessary.
AMERICA NEEDS TO WAKE UP! That's what we think we heard on the 11th of September 2001 (When more than 3,000 Americans were killed) and maybe it was, but I think it should have been "Get Out of Bed!" In fact, I think the alarm clock has been buzzing since 1979 and we have continued to hit the snooze button and roll over for a few more minutes of peaceful sleep since then.
It was a cool fall day in November 1979 in a country going through a religious and political upheaval when a group of Iranian students attacked and seized the American Embassy in Tehran. This seizure was an outright attack on American soil; it was an attack that held the world's most powerful country hostage and paralyzed a Presidency. The attack on this sovereign U. S. embassy set the stage for events to follow for the next 23 years.
America was still reeling from the aftermath of the Vietnam experience and had a serious threat from the Soviet Union when then, President Carter, had to do something. He chose to conduct a clandestine raid in the desert. The ill-fated mission ended in ruin, but stood as a symbol of America's inability to deal with terrorism.
America's military had been decimated and downsized/right sized since the end of the Vietnam War. A poorly trained, poorly equipped and poorly organized military was called on to execute a complex mission that was doomed from the start.
Shortly after the Tehran experience, Americans began to be kidnapped and killed throughout the Middle East. America could do little to protect her citizens living and working abroad. The attacks against US soil continued.
In April of 1983 a large vehicle packed with high explosives was driven into the US Embassy compound in Beirut. When it explodes, it kills 63 people.
The alarm went off again and America hit the Snooze Button once more.
Then just six short months later a large truck heavily laden down with over 2500 pounds of TNT smashed through the main gate of the US Marine Corps headquarters in Beirut and 241 US servicemen are killed. America mourns her dead and hit the Snooze Button once more.
Two months later in December 1983, another truck loaded with explosives is driven into the US Embassy in Kuwait, and America continues her slumber.
The following year, in September 1984, another van was driven into the gate of the US Embassy in Beirut and America slept.
Soon the terrorism spreads to Europe. In April 1985 a bomb explodes in a restaurant frequented by US soldiers in Madrid.
Then in August a Volkswagen loaded with explosives is driven into the main gate of the US Air Force Base at Rhein-Main, 22 are killed and the snooze alarm is buzzing louder and louder as US interests are continually attacked.
Fifty-nine days later a cruise ship, the Achille Lauro is hijacked and we watched as an American in a wheelchair is singled out of the passenger list and executed.
The terrorists then shift their tactics to bombing civilian airliners when they bomb TWA Flight 840 in April of 1986 that killed 4 and the most tragic bombing, Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland in 1988, killing 259.
Clinton treated these terrorist acts as crimes; in fact we are still trying to bring these people to trial. These are acts of war.
The wake up alarm is getting louder and louder.
The terrorists decide to bring the fight to America. In January 1993, two CIA agents are shot and killed as they enter CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia.
The following month, February 1993, a group of terrorists are arrested after a rented van packed with explosives is driven into the underground parking garage of the World Trade Center in New York City. Six people are killed and over 1000 are injured. Still this is a crime and not an act of war?
The Snooze alarm is depressed again.
Then in November 1995 a car bomb explodes at a US military complex in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia killing seven service men and women.
A few months later in June of 1996, another truck bomb explodes only 35 yards from the US military compound in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia. It destroys the Khobar Towers, a US Air Force barracks, killing 19 and injuring over 500. The terrorists are getting braver and smarter as they see that America does not respond decisively.
They move to coordinate their attacks in a simultaneous attack on two US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. These attacks were planned with precision.
They kill 224. America responds with cruise missile attacks and goes back to sleep.
The USS Cole was docked in the port of Aden, Yemen for refueling on 12 October 2000, when a small craft pulled along side the ship and exploded killing 17 US Navy Sailors. Attacking a US War Ship is an act of war, but we sent the FBI to investigate the crime and went back to sleep.
And of course you know the events of 11 September 2001. Most Americans think this was the first attack against US soil or in America. How wrong they are. America has been under a constant attack since 1979 and we chose to hit the snooze alarm and roll over and go back to sleep.
In the news lately we have seen lots of finger pointing from every high officials in government over what they knew and what they didn't know. But if you've read the papers and paid a little attention I think you can see exactly what they knew. You don't have to be in the FBI or CIA or on the National Security Council to see the pattern that has been developing since 1979.
The President is right on when he says we are engaged in a war. I think we have been in a war for the past 23 years and it will continue until we as a people decide enough is enough.
America needs to "Get out of Bed" and act decisively now. America has been changed forever. We have to be ready to pay the price and make the sacrifice to ensure our way of life continues. We cannot afford to keep hitting the snooze button again and again and roll over and go back to sleep.
After the attack on Pearl Harbor, Admiral Yamamoto said "...it seems all we have done is awakened a sleeping giant." This is the message we need to disseminate to terrorists around the world.
This is not a political thing to be hashed over in an election year this is an AMERICAN thing. This is about our Freedom and the Freedom of our children in years to come.
Please forward this to as many people as you can especially to the young people and all those who dozed off in history class and who seem so quick to protest such a necessary military action.
Time to wake up !!
|
|
Guarp
Junior Member
Posts: 79
|
Post by Guarp on Jun 12, 2004 16:14:07 GMT -5
In case you missed it, World War III began in November 1979... This alarm that has been ringing will be ringing for a long time. I think that is the reality this world has to face. This "war" against terrorism is not a war as the first and second world war were. The war in Iraq was a war, with a clear opponent, who surrendered. President Bush could hold a speech on a battleship and uttered the infamous words "mission accomplished". The clear threat of terrorism in Iraq since then is an ongoing battle, but the war is over. The word "war" has different meanings, i want to point out two of them. 1.) a legal state created by a declaration of war and ended by official declaration during which the international rules of war apply.This is what the first and second world war where about. Started by a clear declaratian of war and ended by declaration, held under international rules of war. 2.) a concerted campaign to end something that is injurious; "the war on poverty"; "the war against crime"... and "the war on terrorism". Something that is not just injurious but deathly. Terorism contains a real threat for every country in this world, but it's absolutely different from the first and second world war.
|
|
|
Post by inatent on Jun 12, 2004 16:19:43 GMT -5
. . . .President Bush could hold a speech on a battleship and uttered the infamous words "mission accomplished". . . . A minor correction to your otherwise well considered discourse. I believe President Bush did not say these words. They were merely placed by the troops aboard the ship on a banner that was flying over his head. There is speculation as to whether they refered to the war, or merely to the mission of getting him into Iraq and back safely. It is true, IMO, that this war is different than the first two, but it is a world war nevertheless. inatent
|
|
|
Post by HA on Jun 13, 2004 3:19:05 GMT -5
If it is then the Geneva Conventions DO apply ...
|
|
|
Post by no name on Jun 13, 2004 16:43:39 GMT -5
If it is then the Geneva Conventions DO apply ... Yeah, well -- it'd be great to see Al-Queda and other Militant Islamic terror groups jump on the bandwagon of the Geneva Conventions, but I'm doubting that will happen. It is a world war in the sense that countless areas of the world are engaged in their own battles with Militant Islam -- but the other aspects of it (Geneva Conventions, etc., etc.) aren't the same. Militant Islam is a blanket label for the numerous fanatical Islamic groups in the world, but since there's no physical nation of "Militant Islam", this is what differentiates the current "war" from the first two world wars, even though it is a world "war".
|
|
Guarp
Junior Member
Posts: 79
|
Post by Guarp on Jun 14, 2004 17:42:39 GMT -5
Yeah, well -- it'd be great to see Al-Queda and other Militant Islamic terror groups jump on the bandwagon of the Geneva Conventions, but I'm doubting that will happen. It is a world war in the sense that countless areas of the world are engaged in their own battles with Militant Islam -- but the other aspects of it (Geneva Conventions, etc., etc.) aren't the same. Militant Islam is a blanket label for the numerous fanatical Islamic groups in the world, but since there's no physical nation of "Militant Islam", this is what differentiates the current "war" from the first two world wars, even though it is a world "war". Chapter One of the Geneva Conventions: "Although one of the Powers in conflict may not be a party to the present Convention, the Powers who are parties thereto shall remain bound by it in their mutual relations." ( www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm) Here it doesn't speak of countries, but of powers. With that in mind there is probably not so much difference concerning prisoner treatment. It's not a world war.. it is a world wide war.
|
|
|
Post by no name on Jun 14, 2004 19:21:24 GMT -5
Chapter One of the Geneva Conventions: "Although one of the Powers in conflict may not be a party to the present Convention, the Powers who are parties thereto shall remain bound by it in their mutual relations." ( www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm) Here it doesn't speak of countries, but of powers. With that in mind there is probably not so much difference concerning prisoner treatment. I've actually heard that terrorists do not even fall under the protection of the Geneva Conventions . . . Okay, however you choose to call it, I guess -- I see the two as essentially the same thing.
|
|
Guarp
Junior Member
Posts: 79
|
Post by Guarp on Jun 15, 2004 4:00:40 GMT -5
I've actually heard that terrorists do not even fall under the protection of the Geneva Conventions . . . Yeah, right. I can see that that is the message given by the Bush administration, looking at prisoner abuse in Iraq and a total lack of justice in Guantanamo Bay. I thought the US were a country with a high moral standard, but what happened in the last year really did change my mind.
|
|
|
Post by Just Here on Jun 15, 2004 9:32:40 GMT -5
Yeah, right. I can see that that is the message given by the Bush administration, looking at prisoner abuse in Iraq and a total lack of justice in Guantanamo Bay. I thought the US were a country with a high moral standard, but what happened in the last year really did change my mind. The US is a diverse country where most of the citizens, as individuals, do have a high moral standard. The attack on 9/11 turned a new page for the US and there were those who used this event to further their own adgenda. Caught up in the Patriotic fever of it all, most elements of the government and most citizens stood behind the administration and supported their efforts. It is becoming clear that we were mislead as to what the real situation was. In its zeal to find and crush the people who had slapped us, essential rights were given away without protest because people wanted to give the administration all the support it needed. In the time following 9/11 it was difficult to make the point to people that while 9/11 was a disaster it was not the end of the world and changing the way we live our daily lives would mean that the terrorists had indeed won. The administration did little to reassure the people and in a misguided attempt to make people feel secure started to institute policies that did little to protect people but went a long way in making people fearful. Now more than 2 years following the attack we are in much the same position that we were in the week after the attack. Except now people are afraid and if you travel you are subject to searches that have been shown over and over to be useless in finding weapons. In an effort to get information the rules for dealing with prisoners have been changed. The US has engaged in rendition, a process of taking suspects to a third country without due process. It is then possible to use more forceful methods to extract information than would be allowed under US law. Prisoners transported to countries such as Jordan and Egypt can be subjected to torture and threats to their families in the process of extracting desired information about the Sept. 11 attacks from them. While some support this kind of behavior, allowing the end to justify the means, it does not have support by the majority of Americans.
|
|
|
Post by HA on Jun 15, 2004 11:01:16 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by no name on Jun 20, 2004 22:10:32 GMT -5
Unsubstantiated drama.
|
|
|
Post by Just Here on Jun 21, 2004 0:19:56 GMT -5
What is unsubstantiated? There was little or no protest as the whole country rallied behind the administration. The Patroit act did take rights.
|
|
|
Post by no name on Jun 27, 2004 16:16:36 GMT -5
If it was believed that the Patriot act “took away” rights, it would have been challenged in court. If there’s an event that is disputed, it will be challenged in court. So far, that hasn’t happened. The drama is unsubstantiated.
|
|