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Post by CherieKropp on Jun 20, 2006 10:17:24 GMT -5
I could use some input. If a person was in a conversation with a 2x2, and wanted to know if they were actually a part of the 2x2 group written about on the Telling The Truth website, what questions could they ask to find out? I have come up with the following:
How to identify a member of the 2x2 church.
ASK: Q: What is the name of your church? A: They claim not to have a name
Q: Do you believe in the Bible? A: Yes. Follow the New Testament teachings.
Q: What version of the Bible do you use? A: Predominantly the KJV (some may have other versions they use for reference purposes)
Q: What is the name of the hymnbook you use? A: Hymns Old & New in English speaking countries
Q: Do you worship in a building or a home? A: Home - but some meetings are held in buildings.
Q: Tell me about your ministers. A: Go out preaching 2x2 (in same sex pairs), leave their homes, do not marry, live with converts, are itinerant, supported by voluntary gifts from members
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Post by lloydswanson on Jun 20, 2006 10:51:03 GMT -5
you could ask them if they ever read the SECRET SECT BOOK
if they answer no, then they are 2x2s
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Post by Greg Lee unplugged on Jun 20, 2006 13:10:17 GMT -5
I think I do not understand. You are talking with one of the workers' converts, but you don't it? Or you think you are, but you are not sure?
Just ask the common question "You ever hear of George Walker?"
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Post by CherieKropp on Jun 20, 2006 13:30:22 GMT -5
The context is this. An outside person knows some about the 2x2 church--maybe from reading TTT or other websites. They meet someone and are trying to figure out whether or not they are a 2x2. What questions could an ousider ask to make this determination?
TO Glee: Some who live "out west" who were in Jack Carroll's territory, have never heard of Geo Walker. And some in the later generations haven't either, I've discovered. What worked well as a code for the service boys in the Vietnam war era isn't working so well anymore. My favorite story in the Vietnam memory book is when Bob Appleman went thru a dorm at Ft. Sam, in San Antonio asking, "Does anyone know George Walker?" And a large black man got up from his bed and said, "I'm George Walker. What can I do for you?"
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Post by lilwolfmisty on Jun 21, 2006 11:46:37 GMT -5
[glow=red,2,300] that was a good one about George Walker. She is right glee I was raised in the west and never heard of George Walker. One might ask if they know such and such overseer in their general area, but then one could also get that information off the internet. I guess it would be a process of adding up all the answers as well as looking at the appearance and if you can get a peek inside their house you might know even more. A 2X2 that is practicing to "look good and set and example for the world" will not have a TV or will have one that is hidden in a cabinet, they will wear their hair up and dresses if they are women, they will not wear jewlery except wedding bands, If they wear shorts or pants it would not be "in public", Their house would not support a Tv antenna or satellite dish ( I remember looking at peoples houses for these things when I was in), The women will cow tow to the men ALOT they look to their husband for all the answers ( some don't but alot do), Then you could just ask them about certain scriptures, One thing I have noticed is that most ( Not all) 2X2's never read the whole bible they take it in sections so they can justify their beliefs by quoting one section but if you throw another one at them they don't know what to do. Anyway just my thoughts fwiw.[/glow]
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IQ
Senior Member
Posts: 942
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Post by IQ on Jun 21, 2006 21:34:06 GMT -5
Try ... Leslie White...
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IQ
Senior Member
Posts: 942
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Post by IQ on Jun 21, 2006 21:35:58 GMT -5
[glow=red,2,300] that was a good one about George Walker. She is right glee I was raised in the west and never heard of George Walker. One might ask if they know such and such overseer in their general area, but then one could also get that information off the internet. I guess it would be a process of adding up all the answers as well as looking at the appearance and if you can get a peek inside their house you might know even more. A 2X2 that is practicing to "look good and set and example for the world" will not have a TV or will have one that is hidden in a cabinet, they will wear their hair up and dresses if they are women, they will not wear jewlery except wedding bands, If they wear shorts or pants it would not be "in public", Their house would not support a Tv antenna or satellite dish ( I remember looking at peoples houses for these things when I was in), The women will cow tow to the men ALOT they look to their husband for all the answers ( some don't but alot do), Then you could just ask them about certain scriptures, One thing I have noticed is that most ( Not all) 2X2's never read the whole bible they take it in sections so they can justify their beliefs by quoting one section but if you throw another one at them they don't know what to do. Anyway just my thoughts fwiw.[/glow] Ready for a couple of questions? If you dont know, you just might be a 2x2!!!
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Post by lilwolfmisty on Jun 21, 2006 21:45:20 GMT -5
LOL ask away
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Post by From Pacific NW on Jun 21, 2006 23:22:58 GMT -5
And who is Leslie White? I'm from the West Coast of US and have never heard of him. Perhaps as if they know Nathan Barker. He's really well known! ;D
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Post by ex-teenager on Jun 22, 2006 5:33:08 GMT -5
I reacon George Walker is well known over here as well. Because when some Americans come over to convention they like to give him a wee mention. Mind you alot of the older workers get a mention from time to time. Including Irvine and Reid, also Cooney in our meeting.
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Post by Greg Lee unplugged on Jun 22, 2006 6:36:23 GMT -5
I guess I just do not understand the premise here. I can't see that someone who has a slight knowledge of the workers' way would really be interested in discovering if someone with whom they are visiting is one of the workers' converts. But I suppse if that did happen, I think the best questions would be about the ministers/workers and place of worship/fellowship.
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Post by CherieKropp on Jun 22, 2006 6:42:28 GMT -5
Glee: It's not unusual for me to get email from people saying, I have a neighbor/friend, etc. that I THINK may be a member of the religion/sect/group described on TTT. How can I find out?
Or take the case of someone who was in BSF with my mother who told her about the group she was raised in. This lady thought it possible that her sister had joined the same group. She wanted to know how she could know if the group her sister was in and the group my mom came out of were the same group...since there is no name, this is a little difficult. She attended gospel meetings and decided the hymnbook could be the common denominator.
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Post by Greg Lee unplugged on Jun 22, 2006 6:58:36 GMT -5
Glee: It's not unusual for me to get email from people saying, I have a neighbor/friend, etc. that I THINK may be a member of the religion/sect/group described on TTT. How can I find out? Well, that would be quite the coincidence. An outsider knowing little, if anything of the workers' way, but might live next to one and is knowledgeable of you and your website. I wonder why an "outsider" would seek out information on the internet. I would think if they could find information about the workers' church on the internet, they could use the same words in seeking information from the one thought to possibly be a worker convert. Or take the case of someone who was in BSF with my mother who told her about the group she was raised in. This lady thought it possible that her sister had joined the same group. She wanted to know how she could know if the group her sister was in and the group my mom came out of were the same group...since there is no name, this is a little difficult. She attended gospel meetings and decided the hymnbook could be the common denominator. Well, I can see how that would happen. But in general, without some family or close persoanl relationship, I cannot see how some "outsider" would know enough or care enough about the workers' church to want to identify a worker convert.
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Post by prue on Jun 22, 2006 9:07:06 GMT -5
How do you think people would have identified 2x2's back in the first century Cherie? All look the same? Conservative? Knew the workers or apostles. Didn't join in games, theatre or politics? What is your reading of the people of the New Testament?
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Post by ilylo on Jun 22, 2006 9:12:07 GMT -5
How do you think people would have identified 2x2's back in the first century Cherie? All look the same? Conservative? Knew the workers or apostles. Didn't join in games, theatre or politics? What is your reading of the people of the New Testament? There were no 2x2s in the 1st century. Nothing gray about it.
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Post by junia on Jun 22, 2006 9:15:14 GMT -5
How do you think people would have identified 2x2's back in the first century Cherie? All look the same? Conservative? Knew the workers or apostles. Didn't join in games, theatre or politics? What is your reading of the people of the New Testament? That's easy. The women wore their hair in a bun, didn't wear makeup or jewelry, always wore skirts, and they didn't have a TV.
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ian
New Member
Posts: 29
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Post by ian on Jun 22, 2006 12:16:54 GMT -5
Christians in the first century might have recognised each other this way.
"Oh you must be a Christian, as there are only lions and Christians in here, and you don't look like a lion...."
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Post by Jessi on Jun 22, 2006 20:40:40 GMT -5
How do you think people would have identified 2x2's back in the first century Cherie? All look the same? Conservative? Knew the workers or apostles. Didn't join in games, theatre or politics? What is your reading of the people of the New Testament? I think they were dragged to the theater and killed, so technically, they did go. Christ is God, Jessi
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Post by theres on Jun 22, 2006 20:49:03 GMT -5
How do you think people would have identified 2x2's back in the first century Cherie? All look the same? Conservative? Knew the workers or apostles. Didn't join in games, theatre or politics? What is your reading of the people of the New Testament? There were no 2x2s in the 1st century. Nothing gray about it. there's no 2x2s now
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Post by SO on Jun 22, 2006 20:51:00 GMT -5
Christians in the first century might have recognised each other this way. "Oh you must be a Christian, as there are only lions and Christians in here, and you don't look like a lion...." So they were in with the Lions all the time have you just got out of bed?
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Post by lions Really on Jun 22, 2006 22:41:22 GMT -5
I think Ilylo is wrong. There were 2x2's back then - one such pair which springs to mind was Paul and Timothy? The only lions those workers spoke of are like the ones who write on this board.
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Post by Dueg on Jun 22, 2006 23:23:47 GMT -5
I think Ilylo is wrong. There were 2x2's back then - one such pair which springs to mind was Paul and Timothy? The only lions those workers spoke of are like the ones who write on this board. the first worker list,.. [in the bible] I think it is Mathew 10, starting with the naming of the apostles...they are identified in pairs, Simon [Peter]and Andrew, James and John, Phillip and Bartholomew, Thomas and Mathew [publican], James and Laebbaeus, Simon and Judas. When he[Mathew] wrote this list, he wanted to identify himself [as former publican]...because of the tremendous thanks he had to be taken from sucha dispized place as publicans had, in collecting taxes for Rome against his own Jewish peoples, and the jews felt these publicans were scum to do such work, and yet he, Mathew, was seen as one that could be depended on and trusted with the gospel. Awesome!!
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Post by ilylo on Jun 23, 2006 0:10:14 GMT -5
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understand the truth
Guest
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Post by understand the truth on Jun 23, 2006 6:20:59 GMT -5
i read the link this ilylo left. it has nothing to do with the question of whether there were two by twos in the days of Jesus because Jesus himself started two by twos. and if i live in an age where there is no witness to truth, and i begin preaching it myself with the help of another then we will become two by twos ourselves. please understand what truth means.
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Post by help us on Jun 23, 2006 6:47:44 GMT -5
and if i live in an age where there is no witness to truth, and i begin preaching it myself with the help of another then we will become two by twos ourselves. please understand what truth means. Help us understand what truth means. Your post, as it stands does nothing to elucidate. That fact that yourself and another individual might be willing to preach means very little, in and of itself.
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Post by prue on Jun 23, 2006 7:26:37 GMT -5
as i see it - two by twos, as they are called here, are simply people who meet in homes, hold to the exampe of the bible as seen in Acts and the letter of the Apostles, and send out homeless preachers two by two. true, this may mean little to you, but i can not think of any other reason why God would have left us this record, other than wanting us to follow the same example. The books we read, ie Acts, Romans, Corinthians etc elucidate a lot. thank you. prue
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Post by prue on Jun 23, 2006 8:49:21 GMT -5
Hi Cherie. If you asked someone in say, 50 AD, if they were one of those people first called Christians at Antioch you might get a dialogue as follows:
Q: What is the name of your church? A: The Way, the Truth, the Light etc We have no formal name.
Q: Do you believe in the Bible? A: Of course, but we also follow Jesus
Q: What version of the Bible do you use? A: Our bible is largely oral. But we have bits and pieces of the Hebrew Torah and Greek copies of Apostolic letters
Q: What is the name of the hymnbook you use? A: Usually traditional Jewish hymns, new Gospel ones added
Q: Do you worship in a building or a home? A: Home - but some gospel services are held in buildings.
Q: Tell me about your ministers. A: Go out preaching. They include Barnabus, Phillip, Apollos, Peter etc. Usually in twos like Paul and Timothy, Leave their homes, do not marry, live with converts, are itinerant, supported by voluntary gifts from members
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Post by To Pruebert on Jun 23, 2006 9:41:41 GMT -5
Q: Tell me about your ministers. A: Go out preaching. They include Barnabus, Phillip, Apollos, Peter etc. Usually in twos like Paul and Timothy, Leave their homes, do not marry, live with converts, are itinerant, supported by voluntary gifts from members
Are you familiar with the term eisegesis? It's what you do - reading the Bible to support your own preconceived notions. By doing that you ignore all the scripture that tells of Apostles travelling in many different configurations and entourages, including traveling with their wives. You somehow want to think that Peter and John left their homes without a single shred of scripture to support it. You say that they don't marry when there is clear proof to the contrary. You say the Apostles were itinerant when they clearly stayed right in Jerusalem. What you and others don't realize is that when you use language calling the Apostles workers, calling Math 10 the first workers list, etc - you destroy your credibility and marginalize your fellowship to the fringes of Christianity.
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