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Post by ozelaine on Jun 18, 2006 18:28:22 GMT -5
To Prue and Bert, with regard to your response in another thread where you wrote:
We believe all the glory for salvation belongs to God.
Salvation is all of God, therefore no part of it is conditioned on man and therefore no part of the glory for salvation can be rightly assigned to man, for there is nothing he can do in order to get himself saved or keep himself in a saved state. Yes, he must believe but this believing can only come when God grants His gift of faith, which exclusively believes and holds dear His one and only Gospel.
Is this your view of salvation? I'm just finding it hard to fit your comment with the views expressed on your web site.
Quote:
"Saved By Grace Alone is a philosophy which seeks to dispense with many of the requirements the bible says are necessary for entering the kingdom of heaven. This philosophy states that Jesus saves by his grace, and no works are required."
Can you tell us what these requirements for salvation are?
Sincerely trying to understand your beliefs,
Elaine.
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Post by Rob O on Jun 18, 2006 19:30:34 GMT -5
Hi Elaine,
I hope you don't mind if I add here. If so, please indicate and I will move this post.
---------------------------------
Pruebert,
I don't see that you've answered my question yet. Perhaps you have and I missed it. But just in case....
Do you accept Linda as a sister in Christ?
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Post by ozelaine on Jun 18, 2006 20:01:00 GMT -5
That's fine Rob I think your question fits well with this subject. Often times the meat gets lost in the sandwich.
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Post by prue on Jun 19, 2006 5:54:04 GMT -5
rob asked do we accept linda as our sister in christ there are two christs on this board which one are you referring to? prue
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Post by prue on Jun 19, 2006 6:02:08 GMT -5
hello i will cut and paste
Salvation is all of God - true
therefore no part of it is conditioned on man - not true the conditions of salvation are very high - remember the man told to sell all - remember those who gave their lives - remember those who left houses and wives and lands - remember those broken by the experiences - remember those who loved not their lives to the death
and therefore no part of the glory for salvation can be rightly assigned to man - partly true because we have a part of play if this salvation is to be ours
the requirement of salvation is to hear to love to obey and to follow where he leads us, loving nothing of this world.
hope this helps - prue
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Post by jxr on Jun 19, 2006 7:27:10 GMT -5
Pruebert, where did you get that last bit of scripture? If Christians were to love nothing of this world, then the first Christians would have been the one and only generation.
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Post by prue on Jun 19, 2006 7:39:29 GMT -5
that last bit of scripture i won't quote because you can find it many times in the bible - it is represented as a major theme of the bible - many references in the new test' prue
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Post by spiderman on Jun 19, 2006 7:51:12 GMT -5
that last bit of scripture i won't quote because you can find it many times in the bible - it is represented as a major theme of the bible - many references in the new test' prue You should quit while you're ahead, and speaking of head, I think you're in over yours right now. ;D
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Post by spiderman on Jun 19, 2006 7:53:12 GMT -5
rob asked do we accept linda as our sister in christ there are two christs on this board which one are you referring to? prue Yet another example of Pruebert in over his head.
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Post by spiderman on Jun 19, 2006 7:57:23 GMT -5
rob asked do we accept linda as our sister in christ there are two christs on this board which one are you referring to? prue I would say he means Jesus, the Son of God. I fear that He's grieved by the hard heartedness displayed in your post.
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Post by prue on Jun 19, 2006 8:02:18 GMT -5
spiderman what are you talking about? i can make neither head nor tails of you - prue
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Post by Rob O on Jun 19, 2006 8:13:45 GMT -5
I've only met one other person so obtuse. Let me make it easy for you Pruebert....
What Christ would Linda need to confess for you to consider her a sister in Christ?
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Post by spiderman on Jun 19, 2006 8:21:45 GMT -5
spiderman what are you talking about? i can make neither head nor tails of you - prue Prue, my friend, you have just made my point! ;D
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Post by spiderman on Jun 19, 2006 8:45:19 GMT -5
hello i will cut and paste Salvation is all of God - true therefore no part of it is conditioned on man - not true the conditions of salvation are very high - remember the man told to sell all - remember those who gave their lives - remember those who left houses and wives and lands - remember those broken by the experiences - remember those who loved not their lives to the death and therefore no part of the glory for salvation can be rightly assigned to man - partly true because we have a part of play if this salvation is to be ours the requirement of salvation is to hear to love to obey and to follow where he leads us, loving nothing of this world. hope this helps - prue Prue old buddy! Have you ever read John 3 and 16, with a clear open mind?
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Post by jxr on Jun 19, 2006 8:45:27 GMT -5
that last bit of scripture i won't quote because you can find it many times in the bible - it is represented as a major theme of the bible - many references in the new test' prue This is a lame response Pruebert. I have put the ball in your court to defend your position. If the references are many, then I take it that it would be very easy to pick one and quote it. Are you lazy?
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Post by jxr on Jun 19, 2006 8:55:16 GMT -5
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Post by selah on Jun 19, 2006 10:15:19 GMT -5
That last sentence - "This philosphy states that Jesus saves by his grace, and no works are required." - I want to comment that works ARE required of believers. It is a misunderstanding of the "Grace gospel" to say "no works are required of those who believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Of course God requires works of His people. We have the great commission, we are to be the light of the world, the salt of the earth...we are to LOVE with His great love.
BUT
These works FOLLOW salvation, they are NOT required to obtain it. Salvation is a FREE GIFT, given to us because of God's unmerited grace and mercy. It is receivced by faith, and works follow.
Romans 4:4-11 (just one passage of many that support this doctrine)
The crux is that we are not EARNING salvation. If we were earning it, it would not be a GIFT, it would be a REWARD. There are rewards in heaven according to our works, but salvation is NOT a reward in heaven. It is a GIFT right here, right now to all who would surrender to the perfect plan of God....Jesus Christ. When Jesus said the Kingdom of heaven is at hand, He meant it.
Blessings, Linda
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Post by selah on Jun 19, 2006 10:36:01 GMT -5
I love what Chuck Swindoll says in "The Grace Awakening". I don't have the text here, so I can't quote exactly, but it's to the effect that when people get the mistaken idea that we speak of a "Cheap Grace", it confirms that we are, indeed, speaking the true gospel. WAIT...let me explain.
The true gospel has always been misunderstood in that way. The Pharisees couldn't understand Jesus' liberty from the law, and thought that He too was bringing a gospel of "Cheap Grace".
At first it sounds like that, but that's not the reality of it. Just because God's grace is FREE to us, doesn't make it cheap. It is PRECIOUS and it was COSTLY to HIM.
He paid for our salvation, so we don't have to...because we never, ever could. That's why it's free to us...because HE paid for it, with the blood of the Lamb. So now, if we try to "buy it" or "earn it" with the currency of our "works", we render the blood of the Lamb without value.
Upon our acceptance of such a priceless gift (His blood-bought gift of salvation for and to us), the result can hardly be anything less than our steadfast love, service and devotion to Him and His ways.
Blessings, Linda
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Post by ozelaine on Jun 19, 2006 17:58:00 GMT -5
Dear Prue, in answer to your post I have highlighted your comments in red to make things clearer. (I like colours they kind of cheer the place up a bit! Salvation is all of God - truetherefore no part of it is conditioned on man - not true the conditions of salvation are very high - remember the man told to sell all - remember those who gave their lives - remember those who left houses and wives and lands - remember those broken by the experiences - remember those who loved not their lives to the deathI think you must be confusing salvation with living the Christian life. The man who was asked to sell all wasn't asked as a pre-requisite FOR salvation, he was asked to sell all as proof of his salvation. If he had trusted Jesus completely selling all would have been easy. He didn't, and he wouldn't so he walked away unsaved. Those who left houses and lands left them because they WERE saved, not to gain salvation. Those who loved not their lives to the death did so because they were ALREADY God's not to become God's. and therefore no part of the glory for salvation can be rightly assigned to man - partly true because we have a part of play if this salvation is to be oursIf all the glory for salvation belongs to God, then no part of salvation can be rightly assigned to man. To read into it otherwise would be making the first part of the statement null and void. You can't have it both ways, either ALL the glory belongs to God or it doesn't. Which is it? the requirement of salvation is to hear to love to obey and to follow where he leads us, loving nothing of this world.That's what happens AFTER we are saved, AFTER we have heard the Gospel, AFTER God has given us the gift of faith to believe, and AFTER we are born again. We love God because he FIRST loves us. We do not love the world because after salvation we are new creatures in Christ, we are not of the world neither do we love the things of the world. hope this helps - prueThank you, it does help me to see where you are coming from but I cannot agree with your assessment because it doesn't fit with scripture. I believe we are trying to discuss salvation, being saved or born again and it sounds like you are discussing the Christian life AFTER being saved. Things like hearing (because God has FIRST opened our ears) obeying (because we now love God and serve Him ATER we are saved) and following Jesus is what happens AFTER we are called and chosen and regenerated. I'm talking about the act of salvation, which is what God does for us, not what we do for God. We can't DO anything for God when we are lost and dead in sin. God's saving action comes first. ALL the Glory belongs to Him. If man were able to do something which would make him right with God or if he could contribute even in the slightest degree to his salvation, then salvation would be something gained, not entirely by the grace and mercy of God, but by a work—something performed or achieved by man. The Gospel is about God coming to man, a fact consistent with God electing those who would become His people before the world began. True Christianity is not about what man must do to get saved but what Christ Jesus the Lord has done TO save! "(God) hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began" (2 Timothy 1:9); "...He has chosen us in Him (Jesus) before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will" (Ephesians 1:4,5). Sorry this is so long... I can't really condense it anymore or it will lose clarity. Blessings, Elaine.
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Post by THE on Jun 19, 2006 18:42:07 GMT -5
that last bit of scripture i won't quote because you can find it many times in the bible - it is represented as a major theme of the bible - many references in the new test' prue You should quit while you're ahead, and speaking of head, I think you're in over yours right now. ;D the expert speaks
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Post by THE on Jun 19, 2006 18:43:35 GMT -5
rob asked do we accept linda as our sister in christ there are two christs on this board which one are you referring to? prue Yet another example of Pruebert in over his head. The expert speaks hiding in his kiddie suit
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Post by spiderman on Jun 20, 2006 6:43:17 GMT -5
I'm getting the feeling that "THE Guest" does not like Spiderman.
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