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Post by how on Jun 9, 2006 11:02:36 GMT -5
I wonder how some professing folks are able to reconcile being conscientious objectors, yet at the same time being pro-war?
My professing parents are "for" any war which has the possibility of "opening up a region for the gospel", yet during the Viet Nam era, they felt professing boys should be conscientious objectors.
No matter how flawed the political reason is for a given war, they are willing to, in effect, sacrifice other people's children if it means that a country might become "open" to the workers. But there is never a push for their own (professing) boys to enter the conflict in a killing capacity.
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Post by amazed on Jun 9, 2006 12:10:44 GMT -5
I don't like to point fingers or be negative but this seems to fit the somewhat elitist attitude many have. Not in a "royalty" way but in a "we are the saved one, we are the ones who need to show the world" way.
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Post by affairs of men on Jun 9, 2006 12:19:16 GMT -5
I am not a C.O. but I used to be. I am not anti-war and never have been.
The conflict addressed by this thread is exactly why I reconsidered my original position on being a C.O.
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Post by Hope For All on Jun 9, 2006 12:28:11 GMT -5
I wonder how some professing folks are able to reconcile being conscientious objectors, yet at the same time being pro-war? My professing parents are "for" any war which has the possibility of "opening up a region for the gospel", yet during the Viet Nam era, they felt professing boys should be conscientious objectors. No matter how flawed the political reason is for a given war, they are willing to, in effect, sacrifice other people's children if it means that a country might become "open" to the workers. But there is never a push for their own (professing) boys to enter the conflict in a killing capacity. Please quote specific names of a friend or worker who has ever said that they are in faviour of sacrificing others children?? This is simply a total distortion of what I have ever heard. The F&W see war as an ugly reminder of man's inhumanity to man- but support the suffering of others- come on?! Jesus himself said there would be wars and rumors of war. That is a sad reality of the world we live in. And it may also be God's way of dealing with corrupt governments. We do not always know what God is doing and why. God's ways are not our ways. FWIW My father volunteered for the Allies in WW2 and was opposed to those who took the "easy way out" by becoming conceincious objectors. He risked his life and was a part of the medical corps and helped patch up both allied and German men. Regards, HFA
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dano
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Post by dano on Jun 9, 2006 18:21:11 GMT -5
While you are correct that I never heard it specifically stated that the loss of worldly youth was an acceptable price to pay for opening a area "to the gospel" it was certainly implied. I was a good listener, and often not noticed, so words were not gussied up to perhaps obscure the meaning from a child. Having grown up in the Vietnam era all the young men I knew who were f&w were drafted as Conscientious Objectors. I know I was under the understanding that the CO status was appropriate from the rendition of the commandment, "Do not kill" in the KJV. Most then served as medics during the Vietnam conflict. Thus, while under the CO staus, this status was not always from an objection to war.
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Post by Terry on Jun 9, 2006 19:29:24 GMT -5
I graduated from college in 1970 and struggled mightely with the Vietnam War. I felt that it was a just cause (lost enthusiam when it became apparent we weren't there to win--but just to run up the body count--and buried friends) Because I was young--I didn't turn 18 until my junior year in college--I was in the first lottery and "won"--A number in the 280's. I did have to have a physical--and then appear before the draft board for a hearing on my CO status--I very nearly volunteered draft--didn't mainly because I would have been disowned by my parents and the F&W's. Believe it or not I've regreted that decision even since. Yes it was hypocritical--I freely admit that--and still regret it.
Had trouble with the CO status even then--but was so entrenched I couldn't rebel--always knew I would kill to defend my family--why not to defenc my country? This is one of the heaviest burdens I carry from my 30 years in the F&W.
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Post by Terry on Jun 9, 2006 19:32:38 GMT -5
Another thougt--slightly off-topic but applicable.
A couple who babysat for me--good F&W's--the husband was a volunteer fireman who wouldn't go to fight a fire if it was on a Sunday morning because he had to go to meeting. Always wanted to ask them (but never did) what they would do if as they were leaving for Sunday meeting they realize their house was on fire.
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Post by agree on Jun 10, 2006 0:40:29 GMT -5
I remember that during the Viet Nam War, almost all of the professing boys who were drafted, became medics. In this present conflict, professing young men (and women) are less pacifistic...and are more likely to be engaged in agressive combat situations. Do others agree?
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Post by Peter Kidd on Jun 10, 2006 17:44:32 GMT -5
I think Lloyd is an ex-Vietnam veteran ? Maybe he can answer the above ?
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Post by What Hat on Jun 11, 2006 8:23:05 GMT -5
I think Lloyd is an ex-Vietnam veteran ? Maybe he can answer the above ? How does one become an ex-veteran?
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Post by IllinoisGal on Jun 11, 2006 8:29:40 GMT -5
My friend who is a F&W and hubby is an elder got to talking about this war subject one day while eating lunch. She is a C.O yet on her vehicle there is a magnetic yellow ribbon that says we support our troops..Now figure that one out
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Post by Just for Laughs on Jun 11, 2006 8:46:48 GMT -5
C.O. means Command Officer. Come on now, lets get these acronims correct. Yes, all in the USA should have both a GWB and John Kerry sign on their vehicle. Then they can be correct in any circumstance! ;D
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Post by easy on Jun 11, 2006 9:05:51 GMT -5
I think Lloyd is an ex-Vietnam veteran ? Maybe he can answer the above ? How does one become an ex-veteran? You use terms you don't really think about or perhaps understand. Happens all the time. Many people still go to the ATM machine and enter their PIN number.
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Post by Please do on Jun 11, 2006 9:09:20 GMT -5
C.O. means Command Officer. Come on now, lets get these acronims correct. Yes, all in the USA should have both a GWB and John Kerry sign on their vehicle. Then they can be correct in any circumstance! ;D If you are going to correct at least get it right. CO - Commanding Officer CO - conscientious objector
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Post by Easy question on Jun 11, 2006 9:27:43 GMT -5
My friend who is a F&W and hubby is an elder got to talking about this war subject one day while eating lunch. She is a C.O yet on her vehicle there is a magnetic yellow ribbon that says we support our troops..Now figure that one out Support for an effort and participation in the same effort very different. People may support an individual's right to marry someone of the same sex but not be at all interested in doing so themselves. She supports other people's decision to be a combatant in military service but for personal reasons does not feel that taking an active part in killing other humans is right. Classified as a 1-A-O, you get to experience the same risk of getting killed as those classified as killed as 1-A but do not have a weapon to defend yourself. As a minor point - there is no CO classification. You can be either: 1-O - conscientiously opposed to both combatant and non-combatant aspects of military training and service. 1-A-O - conscientiously opposed to training and military service requiring the use of arms - fulfills his service obligation in a noncombatant position within the military. Either CO classification is a reflection of the roles you feel you can enroll in and not your feelings regarding the conflict in general.
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Post by what if on Jun 11, 2006 9:39:45 GMT -5
"What if they gave a war, and nobody came?"
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Post by a mighty force on Jun 11, 2006 9:40:45 GMT -5
"What if they gave a war, and nobody came?" They would force people to attend. Just as they have in the past.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2006 14:15:08 GMT -5
It seems to me that the pro-war feelings of many of the 2x2s, expressed of more resent years, represents a fairly major shift in doctrine/moral values. The predominant spirit 'kill all the bad guys' (especially if they are moslems) didn't exist in the work that I was part of 25 years ago.
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Post by didnt notice on Jun 11, 2006 14:51:26 GMT -5
Maybe a lot of things you didn't notice Edgar. Perhaps you never realised many of the things. Perhaps there's a wide gap between what you thought was 2x2ism and what it really is?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2006 15:22:00 GMT -5
Maybe a lot of things you didn't notice Edgar. Perhaps you never realised many of the things. Perhaps there's a wide gap between what you thought was 2x2ism and what it really is? You have a point there! -- I am well aware of things that did go on when I was in the work, that I was able to ignore at that time, and pretend that it was different.
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Post by ex-teenager on Jun 11, 2006 18:35:22 GMT -5
It seems to me that the pro-war feelings of many of the 2x2s, expressed of more resent years, represents a fairly major shift in doctrine/moral values. The predominant spirit 'kill all the bad guys' (especially if they are moslems) didn't exist in the work that I was part of 25 years ago. Woow, I wouldnt agree with the kill the bad guy shift either. I dont think that is the case here... But Ive always thought it strange that some of the American friends are in the army etc, I was always taught, love those who hate, thou shalt not kill, love thy neighbour etc etc.
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Post by Hope For All on Jun 12, 2006 15:46:04 GMT -5
It seems to me that the pro-war feelings of many of the 2x2s, expressed of more resent years, represents a fairly major shift in doctrine/moral values. The predominant spirit 'kill all the bad guys' (especially if they are moslems) didn't exist in the work that I was part of 25 years ago. Edgar, Please back up your statement by quoting a specific F or W who has said "kill all the bad guys-especially the moslems". After all if there are MANY who have these feelings it should be pretty easy to name a few who say it right?? FWIW I think this is an insult to the workers who are spending their life in countries like Pakistan working amunsgt the Moslems(some of whom you know personally like Keith O.) Do you think that he feels that way?? Does it seem logical to you that any worker would want a war?? HFA
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