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Post by too bad on Jun 5, 2006 13:05:15 GMT -5
Until recently, workers claimed Jesus Christ founded this fellowship when he called the 12 and 70 apostles. Workers are successors to the ministry of these apostles making every other religion on the face of the earth to be WRONG! And not one worker I know of has publicly apologized for denying a human founder. And few friends hold the workers accountable for this mistake, error!
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Post by lloydswanson on Jun 5, 2006 14:44:26 GMT -5
workers deny everything whats new?
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Post by Tom Smith on Jun 5, 2006 15:34:44 GMT -5
You are !
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Post by Rupert Younger on Jun 5, 2006 15:35:57 GMT -5
There's nothing new here, its all the same old same old. 2x2s defending the impossible, and exes trying their darndest to kill em off.
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Me
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Post by Me on Jun 5, 2006 18:13:40 GMT -5
i say good on them for telling what is true
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Post by ex-teenager on Jun 6, 2006 3:18:31 GMT -5
i say good on them for telling what is true Dont be so taken up with people telling the truth. The devil tells people things that are true also.
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Post by only Ireland on Jun 6, 2006 8:12:14 GMT -5
All people need to realize that the 2x2 problems wern't so obvious in Ireland, Engand ,Scotland.. because to hide anything would be impossible.Teenager needs to realize this also,like Teenager sees things from his prospective a lot i believe
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apostolic succession
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Post by apostolic succession on Jun 6, 2006 8:14:44 GMT -5
If the 2x2s are a apostolic succession has they claim they must of been hiding the bible has it was only given back to the people 1610...lol lol lol
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Post by events not denied on Jun 6, 2006 10:05:25 GMT -5
Ok... I apologise for all you people who only have human eyes. I apologise that when people say my faith is from the beginning, and founded by no man, that we overlooked Irvine, or Othniel, or Gidian, or Samuel or any one of many who were stirred by the truth, and went out to preach it. And I apologise to all who think that my faith claims a succession to the first apostles. Anyone who lives for God would know in themselves that this something which long preceded the apostles. And unless God himself speaks through the fire and cloud to humanity, or appears in the sky, any future gospel will also be started by a man. And those who are moved by what they hear will understand that this is something that came from no man. bert, for prue I am not denying the chain of events in history everybody understands that jesus is the founder the issue is over who started the 2x2s?Brain washing is serious thing pray for all to see outside there box
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Post by hi6 on Jun 6, 2006 10:26:32 GMT -5
1800 years elasped between the end of the New Testament (John and Paul) until Irvine, Walker, Cooney, Carrolls, Weirs, Sam Jones and others left ole Ireland for the English speaking world! There is no way that someone could have professed through someone going back to the New Testament! With the Dark Ages of Europe..the plagues, discovery etc.. Some of the problem is an ignorance of history. Not just professing 2x2 history but European History!
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Post by ilylo on Jun 6, 2006 10:58:25 GMT -5
Ok... I apologise for all you people who only have human eyes. Hmmm... and what kind of eyes do you have, pray tell? And why are you apologizing for us? To whom are you apologizing? I get the feeling you wrote "apologize for" because you cannot bring yourself to write "apologize to" anyone, regardless of what kind of eyes they have.
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studylearning unplugged
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Post by studylearning unplugged on Jun 6, 2006 11:17:27 GMT -5
Ok... I apologise for all you people who only have human eyes. I apologise that when people say my faith is from the beginning, and founded by no man, that we overlooked Irvine, or Othniel, or Gidian, or Samuel or any one of many who were stirred by the truth, and went out to preach it. And I apologise to all who think that my faith claims a succession to the first apostles. Anyone who lives for God would know in themselves that this something which long preceded the apostles. And unless God himself speaks through the fire and cloud to humanity, or appears in the sky, any future gospel will also be started by a man. And those who are moved by what they hear will understand that this is something that came from no man. bert, for prue This post is condesending. You write as though you think everyone else does not know anything. Before the apostles there were prophets and God. You make light of the F&W's link to WI. Before you go off on a tangent please can you explain what relevence William Irving's " Alpha Message" has with F&W's form of ministry? I feel this is a fair question. You see I have a combined family history of fellowship in the "Way" which spans 80+ years. Do you feel that I do not know anything about the workings of the Holy Spirit. I suggest before you treat others like they are in the dark you should research the history yourself. I will be more apt to listen to you if you can say for certain that you know how and explain to me what the impact of the Alpha Message is, in reference to the Ministry. 2 Peter 1:20-23 (New International Version) New International Version (NIV) Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation.
21 For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
So then if WI was part of the history of this minsitry which is fact; and he had a revelation or prophecy; then we as followers in this ministry should know what he spoke about since he claimed to be carried along by the Holy Spirit.
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Post by ilylo on Jun 6, 2006 11:26:19 GMT -5
Hi Ilylo I think that's called the eye of faith . Some saw in Jesus just a man, others saw the Messiah. Thus some saw His miracles and saw a 'devil,' others only heard His word (without any miracle) and saw the Christ. And what does this comment have to do with your inability to write "apologize to"?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2006 11:44:30 GMT -5
I had detailed instructions for how to deny the founder. First line of defense that isn't us. I am ashamed to say that I have looked at pictures of my own grandfather with. Ed Cooney and empatically insisted that is not us. If the person was sophisticated enough to realize the lie, next came the worker gone bad story. Last resort was to acknowledge beginnings, but in a vague way ie I believe there has always been a remnant. I am thoroughly sick of the lies. My family dates back to the beginning.
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Post by Bert on Jun 6, 2006 11:58:28 GMT -5
So what is the "lie" Daisy? I asked the workers and was told Irvine was one of the earliest workers. But if I lived somewhere with no gospel, and began preaching, I wouldn't want people to think it came from me, or was about me.
And if anyone said I founded it I would say they are missing the point.
The truth was not started by any man.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2006 12:43:59 GMT -5
Is it a lie or is it true to look at a pic of a close family member and deny knowing him? We did this on direct and specific worker orders. Makes me feel like a betrayer. However you don't consider that a lie? You must have quite a flexible conscience.
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Post by Good logic on Jun 6, 2006 13:16:02 GMT -5
Daisy...
Did William Irvine ever spoke publicly and openly in his gospel meetings, at the conventions, or special meetings where he claimed to be the "FOUNDER" when he was an active 2x2 worker? (1897-1918)
Daisy, Only because I'm very curious to watch this particular thread of logic self destruct, may I answer this question for you? Nathan, I'll say "who knows, please explain why it matters". While you're at it, please explain why you are trying to divert attention away from the issues of deceit that Daisy has raised?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2006 13:26:18 GMT -5
I have little interest in the words of Wild Bill Irvine, as he was in my opinion, a lunatic as well as your founder. I rely on 1 the words of my trusted and respected family members who were there and witnessed the beginnings and 2 the words of high ranking workers most notably our extremely close family friend George Walker, these people were also there to witness the beginnings and I also have a high amount of trust in their word. These old workers loved to talk about the beginnings, with the stipulation that we deny everything to those who were not already in the know *more lies*
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2006 13:28:03 GMT -5
Sorry double post
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2006 13:46:27 GMT -5
I believe Wild Bill to have been certifiably insane, I have little interest in his crazy and often contradictary ramblings. Alll of my knowledge is from people who were there and who I both respect and trust. I have no need to pick through the ramblings of a lunatic to try to make a case.
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Post by Good logic on Jun 6, 2006 13:50:11 GMT -5
Come on, Nate!!! I can hardly stand the suspense - please tell us why this matters. At all.
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Post by Good logic on Jun 6, 2006 14:04:34 GMT -5
Just what I figured. The weakest possible defense of your position that William Irvine isn't the founder of your fellowship. Never mind that there is government documentation that George Walker admitted it. The documentation is extensive, but since Daisy can't produce convention meeting notes of a sermon where Irvine says it from the platform - you're not gonna believe it. Nate, you just can't handle the truth.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2006 14:10:41 GMT -5
the fact that you go to the words of Wild Bill to make your case indicates that you acknowledge the importance of Irvine to this group. He was not just another worker and we both know it! However, he was insane and I don't waste my previos time studying *and twisting* his words to justify myself.
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Post by Bryanfromalaska on Jun 6, 2006 14:14:30 GMT -5
In Nathan's world WI cannot be the founder because he does not have in front of him quotes from WI saying he was the founder while he was a part of the fellowship.
Of course this logic is completly laughable.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2006 14:34:03 GMT -5
I want to stress that I am not here to make trouble. But, after a lifetime of me lying and deceiving others there is a bad taste in my mouth. From now on, I am trying to be honest. If there had of been more honesty within the group, I would still be a member. Those of you who are in the dark and kept from knowing what goes on behind the scenes are very lucky, but very deceived. I think I am happy to be who I am.
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Post by Good logic on Jun 6, 2006 14:36:38 GMT -5
I have read George Walker 1942 document to the USA Government Selective Service. He did not mention anywhere William Irvine was the Founder of the 2x2s.
You know, that might be correct - my bad. Maybe all he said was something to the effect that it was founded at the turn of the century in Ireland. So - who do you think he was referring to? Nate, I must tell you that I'm not interested in continuing this ridiculous debate - even the workers admit Irvine started your fellowship - except they don't say "founded", they say "raised it up".
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2006 16:06:13 GMT -5
Peace to all of you. I love many in this fellowship, that is why I will never purposefully lie to them again. Much love to all innies and outies both.
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Post by as i c it on Jun 7, 2006 13:55:42 GMT -5
Daisy,
What justification and explanation was given (by Walker or other workers) for the history's cover up? And for all the continued denials and evasions of the full and real truth? And how is it the consequences of the real truth (on the believer's lives) when they find out the real truth...hasn't moved them to do the right thing? (And correct all the wrongs connected to it???)
I just don't get it...Where is their conscience: and their responsibility (as ministers of truth) before God?
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