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Post by Huego on May 27, 2006 18:14:22 GMT -5
I wished that workers would feel comfortable to write a letter explaining why they leave the work. That would cut out the gossip! Just a simple statement explaining why they left the work. Too bad some are smeared by their brethern for leaving the work. And if they are kicked out of the work, I wished they could feel comfortable enough to state this ;however many want to remain professing and don't want to upset the power overseers.
There is a lack of communication between the workers and friends. Openess and honesty are needed.
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exit stories of workers
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Post by exit stories of workers on May 27, 2006 19:36:04 GMT -5
Maybe we can start with those on this board who left the work.. I know of least 6 who have identified themselves as having been workers at one time on here.... Paul, Edgar, Gene, Nathan, Greg, Brad, and a couple more whose names I do not remember without going over and reading past posts. A part for a couple most of them have also left meetings but not the Lord. Please tell us your exit stories from the work......
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Post by as i c it on May 27, 2006 20:00:41 GMT -5
Huego,
I agree. If someone leaves the church, everyone is going to want to know why. And whatever else they can about the situation. If no true knowledge is given out, then people will speculate: and soon those speculations will turn into so-called facts. And..passed on..of course...to others....
Now, just about everyone I know loves to gossip (be in on "the news"). But there's no desire among the believers--or any kind of conspiracy among them--to deliberately pass on false information: or to deliberately blacken someone's name. Most 2 x 2's are pretty nice: and pretty decent individuals (who..like all people) love "to be in the know".
Since we all know that: why not use it. Call the elders and pass on the true facts. Put the information on the net somewhere. (Maybe we should even have "An Exit Board" of some kind--where everyone can post their blurb and give the facts to all the curious. )Use 3-mails. Sent out a letter. That way, the real truth will stop (or work to combat) any of the false speculations about the situation.
Also: most 2 x 2's would probably be very happy to show some kindness (and be a help) to workers who leave the work. The true reason they aren't: is because the worker leaves--and many are left without a clue as to where the individual went: or if that worker is in need of help.
While the worker may be in need of seclusion at that point in time, a trusted friend or relative could pass on to others, ways in which they could help. And I'm sure others would willingly pitch in, if they could.
The lines of communication are so often down when these events take place. And if better communication were to take place--it would help eradicate many of the other problems or situations that happen due to lack of it.
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Post by guesty on May 27, 2006 20:08:46 GMT -5
Some very very personal stuff. I, for one, do not feel like anyone owes me any explanation for their major life decisions.
People can gossip about anything, including "stated reasons." Those who gossip are going to do it no matter what is said. They either have a handle on their tongue or they don't. If I want to know if I can be of any help to someone that I care about, I can ask them, or someone close to them. I think breathing room is probably very much in order for anyone who is going through a major life change. No explanation needed.
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Post by a believer on May 28, 2006 0:09:58 GMT -5
Many people seem to want to write about their experiences after they left. There have been 2 books (one very large called Reflections and the other Reflected truth), which contain people's stories. Part of healing for some is to write and share their experience including of leaving. Some people write exit letters.
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Post by Guest 1 on May 28, 2006 4:03:21 GMT -5
"...........no desire to deliberately pass on ............or deliberately blacken someone's name ."
That is of course, unless you are that person's overseer and you were in the process of 'freezing' that person out of the work.
In that case you might say "...so and so has a drinking problem".
And if you were called on it by someone who who knew this was a complete fabrication then you could just vaguely refer to "other matters".
See how easy it is when your followers give you complete unquestioning obedience?
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studylearning unplugged
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Post by studylearning unplugged on May 28, 2006 11:18:20 GMT -5
Huego, I agree. If someone leaves the church, everyone is going to want to know why. And whatever else they can about the situation. If no true knowledge is given out, then people will speculate: and soon those speculations will turn into so-called facts. And..passed on..of course...to others.... Now, just about everyone I know loves to gossip (be in on "the news"). But there's no desire among the believers--or any kind of conspiracy among them--to deliberately pass on false information: or to deliberately blacken someone's name. Most 2 x 2's are pretty nice: and pretty decent individuals (who..like all people) love "to be in the know". Since we all know that: why not use it. Call the elders and pass on the true facts. Put the information on the net somewhere. (Maybe we should even have "An Exit Board" of some kind--where everyone can post their blurb and give the facts to all the curious. )Use 3-mails. Sent out a letter. That way, the real truth will stop (or work to combat) any of the false speculations about the situation. Also: most 2 x 2's would probably be very happy to show some kindness (and be a help) to workers who leave the work. The true reason they aren't: is because the worker leaves--and many are left without a clue as to where the individual went: or if that worker is in need of help. While the worker may be in need of seclusion at that point in time, a trusted friend or relative could pass on to others, ways in which they could help. And I'm sure others would willingly pitch in, if they could. The lines of communication are so often down when these events take place. And if better communication were to take place--it would help eradicate many of the other problems or situations that happen due to lack of it. I very much disagree with part of this statement. When a worker or friend makes statements that a "person is unwilling" or that they are "in a wrong Spirit" just because that person, be it worker or friend, has stated something which goes against the GROUP THINK; it is deliberate. They seek to discredit based on diminishing that persons worth. There is no desire to discuss if the matter has merit or not. That is the way it is. Now that I have researched more, I see have been many many many friends who have been diminished in this manner. It is the methods used to sanction and shunning that person into just capitulation to the workers way or to drive them out of the fellowship. I see it as very un-Christian.
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Post by as i c it on May 28, 2006 18:49:16 GMT -5
Guest1 ,
Would the overseer blacken the individual's name if they just left the work, but intended to stay in the fellowship?
Studylearning,
I agree. I see it as un-christian too. And unnecessary. The Holy Spirit will draw and work within an individual--therefore--why not let the Holy Spirit do His work, as He will?
AS to the believers, deliberately blackening an individual's name...I'm doing a bit of a shuffle on how to answer you with regard to it...(And the reason for the shuffle is because it all depends on who I happen to think of..). And their motive. For example: one might be thoughtless, but...another could be malicious.
On the whole, I don't think the believers have an agenda to deliberately blacken anyone's name. Which isn't to say that an individual's name doesn't get blacken...in the process of what gets said about them--but...there's no "goal/agreement/plan"...whereby that's what all the believers are out to do.
It's more like everyone just loves gossip!
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studylearning unplugged
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Post by studylearning unplugged on May 28, 2006 20:50:49 GMT -5
Guest1 , Would the overseer blacken the individual's name if they just left the work, but intended to stay in the fellowship? Studylearning, I agree. I see it as un-christian too. And unnecessary. The Holy Spirit will draw and work within an individual--therefore--why not let the Holy Spirit do His work, as He will? AS to the believers, deliberately blackening an individual's name...I'm doing a bit of a shuffle on how to answer you with regard to it...(And the reason for the shuffle is because it all depends on who I happen to think of..). And their motive. For example: one might be thoughtless, but...another could be malicious. On the whole, I don't think the believers have an agenda to deliberately blacken anyone's name. Which isn't to say that an individual's name doesn't get blacken...in the process of what gets said about them--but...there's no "goal/agreement/plan"...whereby that's what all the believers are out to do. It's more like everyone just loves gossip! as i c it, I have been reading some historical letters of people who have left the truth as a result of firm convictions of wrong doctrine. One such letter was from 1972 and is an accounting of Fred and Ruth Miller. Let see that is 34 years ago. It is interesting to note that they say they were branded with a " wrong spirit" tag. Deserving or not, this seems to have been the methods used for a long time. I will say, by default, it blackens the names of people and sets up the inner thinking that those branded are some how bad.So you see it does appear to have some willful plan in it. Psalm 130:2-4 (King James Version) King James Version (KJV) Public Domain
2 Lord, hear my voice: let thine ears be attentive to the voice of my supplications.
3 If thou, LORD, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand?
4 But there is forgiveness with thee, that thou mayest be feared.
Seem that our brothers and sisters could learn from the above
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Post by Guest 1 on May 28, 2006 23:20:38 GMT -5
as i c it, Tho' my post was written as a hypothetical, it is in reality factual.The person involved is still a meeting person.
I believe the person involved was bringing some uncomfortable pressure to the overseer concerning some immorality and inappropriate behaviour in the ministry.
The usual sweeping under the carpet was occurring, much to the dismay of this worker.
The bottom line is that an overseer can not be seen in an unfavourable light..... must always appear to be right.
The deliberate discrediting of this brother ensured that anything he would say among the friends would not be believed. I must say that he was very gracious about the matter.
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Post by as i c it on May 29, 2006 1:24:14 GMT -5
studylearning,
I don't think those in the 2 x 2 church have considered the words "wrong spirit" to be a form of (deliberately) blackening an individual's name. When they've used that term, it's been "a fact" to them...because...you know what the church believes..."our group: and "group think" right--and anything else.."wrong-spirited".
On the thread to do with Steve B. you'll see what Amos posted with regards to Steve: and you'll also see what others posted before--as to Steve. I don't think the average believer (who may have believed, and passed on) any of those rumors had a goal in mind--such as to destroy Steve's reputation. .. Instead, I think they were just passing on gossip ("exciting stuff/shocking stuff...just to add drama to their lives!!!) Which, as I said, may have blacken Steve's name in the process--but their goal wasn't to do that...it was...just "exciting stuff/shocking stuff" ..to pass on --with all the enjoyment that comes from a scandel...
But if you're referring to where there's been trouble: and deliberate lies told to shun someone...and deliberately smear their name...well...who can back that as christian behaviour? or right behavior in the church or in the world??
Guest 1,
My response to you is the same as the one given above. (There's "right" behavior: and "wrong" behavior: and "truth" and "lies") And any behaviour that discredits or smears the innocent, in order to protect the guilty...obviously should not be considered right behavior--regardless of whether it's in the church or the world.
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Post by as i c it on May 29, 2006 3:06:34 GMT -5
studylearning,
I should also have said that the word "unwilling" is also often used as an explanatin.
For example: "What happened to .......?" (Answer): "They became unwilling".
Guest1,
In the world, it is wrong to slander another's reputation. In the church, it is wrong to bear false witness. And whether done in the world, or in the church, it is to do evil unto another: (because of the evil found in the wrong-doer's heart)
The church is the moral voice of society: setting forth (and maintaining) Christ's standard and example, of how we are to be--and to act--toward others--with all actions having a motive attached to them. Either our motives are to do good. Or, they are to do evil. Either they are to do what is right in God's eyes (and according to His word). Or--they are to disobeyed in order to serve our own evil purposes.
IMO, a deliberate smear campaign would be in violation of the two commandments.
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