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tithing
May 21, 2006 20:20:14 GMT -5
Post by happy on May 21, 2006 20:20:14 GMT -5
What are your thoughts on it? Postive or negative.
Is it strictly Old Testament?
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tithing
May 21, 2006 20:22:34 GMT -5
Post by Rob O on May 21, 2006 20:22:34 GMT -5
OT. The NT tells us to give generously and joyfully according to what we have determined in our heart to give. There is no set percentage or amount.
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tithing
May 21, 2006 20:25:38 GMT -5
Post by happy on May 21, 2006 20:25:38 GMT -5
I was reading verses in the NT today about giving. Does giving to others count equally as giving to the church in general? ie the pastor or to support the church?
(Our money wasn't accepted by workers due to us being "unequally yoked", so this is new stuff for me.)
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tithing
May 21, 2006 20:28:18 GMT -5
Post by bluejay on May 21, 2006 20:28:18 GMT -5
Rob, what are your thoughts about receiving a tax deduction claim form for any monies you may "freely give" to a church?
According to Canadian law I'm entitled to claim my church donations as tax deductions .... but somehow that has always just felt wrong to me.
I've never come across any scripture to either support or reject the act of claiming our joyful giving as a legal tax deduction.
Anyone ?
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tithing
May 21, 2006 20:33:41 GMT -5
Post by Rob O on May 21, 2006 20:33:41 GMT -5
I believe giving to others counts equally as to giving to the church in general. If you look at the purpose of tithing in the OT, it was to support the priests and Levites who had no inheritance of the land and therefore couldn't support themselves through agriculture etc. And the tithe was also used to support those who couldn't help themselves such as the poor and widows. Plus every three years there was an additional tithe used for a big party. There's a lot more to it but I don't have the time right now to pull up the info.
In the NT Jesus praised the poor woman who gave all that she could for the maintenance of the Temple. Paul speaks of collections taken up for churches in areas suffering in famine. The deacons were chosen by the church to administer gifts to those in need.
Drawing from these principles, I see that giving can count in whatever good need it goes towards: helping ministries, helping the poor and disenfranchised, contributing towards the furtherance of the gospel, etc.
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tithing
May 21, 2006 20:38:03 GMT -5
Post by Rob O on May 21, 2006 20:38:03 GMT -5
Bluejay, I would say it depends on how that money is to be used. If you leave the money with the tax office and the govt. spends up big on infrastructure and community development projects, then great. If the govt. wastes a lot of money then ask yourself is it right to leave money where it's likely to do little or no good? If you are entitled to a deduction for that money and you can directly use that tax saving for good, then it seems to me that you should claim your deduction and have direct control over where that saved money goes.
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tithing
May 21, 2006 20:43:04 GMT -5
Post by Rob O on May 21, 2006 20:43:04 GMT -5
Ps. Money is an idea. It has no intrinsic moral value. It's worth lies directly in how we perceive it and how we put it to use. Everything belongs ultimately to God and we are stewards of all that He has given under our control. Since money has no value outside of a given economic context then I believe we have a moral obligation to utilise money within that context in such a way that we can maximise how much we control and put our surplus to work helping those who can't help themselves.
Of course, that opens the door of debate to what defines "surplus".
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tithing
May 22, 2006 11:51:06 GMT -5
Post by Zorro on May 22, 2006 11:51:06 GMT -5
Bluejay, Many people wonder about taking deductions they are entitled to and , believe it or nto, the US Supreme Court actually ruled on a case that dealt with this. In the majority opinion the justice explained it like this: picture 2 bridges - one that you pay a toll and one that is free. You have a choice to go over whichever one you want. If you want to pay the toll (or taxes) go ahead. If you want to go over for free (take the tax deduction) that's fine too.
Another interesting factor is to consider why they make a deduction available in the first place. The gov't has always been willing to influence an agenda it considers in the public's best interest by "manipulating" the tax code. Increase overall savings? Make retirement accounts deductible. Help people buy homes? Make mortgage interest deductible. Administer a wide range of social programs to the public? Make charitable contributions deductible. A few years ago Bush put some floaters out there to transfer ALL administration of social programs from the gov't to the private sector because he felt they are in closer touch with the real needs of the people. IMO, he is right. Some people describe our charitable donations as "social capital" and we can either influence how it is used by giving directly to charities of our choice or default to the gov't and let them use it as they will. The choice is ours.
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tithing
May 22, 2006 19:23:15 GMT -5
Post by Gene on May 22, 2006 19:23:15 GMT -5
Rob, what are your thoughts about receiving a tax deduction claim form for any monies you may "freely give" to a church? According to Canadian law I'm entitled to claim my church donations as tax deductions .... but somehow that has always just felt wrong to me. I've never come across any scripture to either support or reject the act of claiming our joyful giving as a legal tax deduction. Anyone ? Gross up the donation. In other words, increase the gross donation by the amount of the tax savings. In other words: You are in a 25% tax bracket. You donate $100. Your tax savings is $25. Donate the $25. On the $25, your tax savings is $6.25. Donate the $6.25. On the $6.25, your tax savings is $1.56. Donate the $1.56. Etc.....
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tithing
May 22, 2006 20:43:12 GMT -5
Post by ithascome on May 22, 2006 20:43:12 GMT -5
A lot of our tax money goes to the poor. So it is a mater of giving to the government to help the poor or giving to the church. I would rather give to the church or some other charitable organization.
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tithing
May 23, 2006 3:43:50 GMT -5
Post by Brick on May 23, 2006 3:43:50 GMT -5
Rob, what are your thoughts about receiving a tax deduction claim form for any monies you may "freely give" to a church? As Jesus said, "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's..." He did not indicate that you should give more than your share to the gov't in taxes. Where the law says you get a tax deduction for your charitable contributions, you should use it. This is not ringing your own bell, this is merely accounting. The info that you send to the gov't in your tax return should be confidential. Of course, if you would rather the gov't have your money, go ahead and give it.
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