forest
Junior Member
Posts: 143
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Post by forest on May 16, 2006 15:17:16 GMT -5
Some known people (especially in Germany) do know some about the "antiChristian bias" of some of the workers. But they do not find enough power to go out from the meetings. Why? How is to help them?
Hope, more of these doubters would read such boards.
I startet to tell two families about the real facts of that ministry but no more question since 5 or 6 months. They are afraid? Why? Also all workers are normally people and no extra power or such all! Why people don't want to jump over their shadow? I'd like to help someone. But how?
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Post by I believe on May 16, 2006 15:30:06 GMT -5
I believe you are way under-estimating how many are leaving the fellowship. Most I am sorry to say are not leaving for doctrine sake but because when issue are mentioned they are put down.
The hushing will drive away more then and open accounting and perhaps an open study of just what doctrine the F&W do follow and believe.
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forest
Junior Member
Posts: 143
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Post by forest on May 16, 2006 15:36:46 GMT -5
I believe you are way under-estimating how many are leaving the fellowship. Most I am sorry to say are not leaving for doctrine sake but because when issue are mentioned they are put down. The hushing will drive away more then and open accounting and perhaps an open study of just what doctrine the F&W do follow and believe. sorry, should say: in Europe especially in Germany/Switzerland In US or CA are so much people. So there are also leaving out more (shown as number) as in Europe.
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Post by an on May 16, 2006 15:45:05 GMT -5
Why would they leave?
It is all they know.
All of their friends and family go to meetings. Their whole social network is in the meetings.
So why bother with uprooting your whole life oveer a few differences of opinion.
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forest
Junior Member
Posts: 143
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Post by forest on May 16, 2006 15:48:43 GMT -5
All of their friends and family go to meetings. Their whole social network is in the meetings. That's correct but the transmitted facts are to weighty to be ignored!
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Post by Because on May 16, 2006 15:51:24 GMT -5
So why bother with uprooting your whole life oveer a few differences of opinion.
Because some people don't want to worship God in a cult.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2006 15:52:00 GMT -5
All of their friends and family go to meetings. Their whole social network is in the meetings. That's correct but the transmitted facts are to weighty to be ignored! For some, but not all.
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Post by op on May 16, 2006 15:52:44 GMT -5
So why bother with uprooting your whole life oveer a few differences of opinion.Because some people don't want to worship God in a cult. This is the opinion of those who leave. Not those who might take issue with a few things but still stay.
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Post by Because on May 16, 2006 16:26:40 GMT -5
This is the opinion of those who leave.
Not those who might take issue with a few things but still stay.
I agree with this - because I have been in both positions. For a long time (25 years) I would have been one who took issue with some things but was willing to stay. Once I realized it is a cult, those things I took issue with looked a LOT different.
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Post by cross on May 16, 2006 16:32:53 GMT -5
This is the opinion of those who leave.
Not those who might take issue with a few things but still stay. I agree with this - because I have been in both positions. For a long time (25 years) I would have been one who took issue with some things but was willing to stay. Once I realized it is a cult, those things I took issue with looked a LOT different. and once you cross that line you can never go back. you can walk up to the line, look across the line, and maybe even reach over and pick some flowers on the other side of the line. But once you cross it that is it. And for many in the fellowship they have walked up to the line but have never been able to take that next step. But once they do that will be it. No going back - ever!
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Post by l on May 16, 2006 17:36:14 GMT -5
I agree once you get to know the score there is no way you can go along with the deception without saying anything
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Post by why go back on May 16, 2006 21:07:13 GMT -5
Why go back? 2x2ism is far too lacking in sound theology to even consider returning.
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forest
Junior Member
Posts: 143
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Post by forest on May 17, 2006 1:19:49 GMT -5
that's all right you told but hard to see some friendly people from the inside time running in vain this way and no ear to hear the reality.
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Post by Deutsch on May 17, 2006 4:31:29 GMT -5
It is quite possible to worship God in the 2x2 system. Leaving is too much trouble for no real gain.
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Post by IllinoisGal on May 17, 2006 6:36:45 GMT -5
It is quite possible to worship God in the 2x2 system. Leaving is too much trouble for no real gain. Quite Possible?? That should be the WHOLE reason for being there.
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Post by sjg on May 17, 2006 9:44:36 GMT -5
People stay because they are bound in fear. Most have been taught from a very early age that this is the ONLY way to salvation....that they must remain true to the workers and the ministry they represent to have any hope of salvation. That is NOT the gospel of the Bible. Jesus taught that there is salvation in the blood....HIS blood. We come to Him with a repentent heart and acknowlege His sacrifice on our behalf and live by faith in the Son of God who paid the ultimate price. Listen closely....that is not the message that the workers bring.
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Post by Well then on May 17, 2006 10:24:25 GMT -5
People stay because they are bound in fear. Most have been taught from a very early age that this is the ONLY way to salvation....that they must remain true to the workers and the ministry they represent to have any hope of salvation. If this is what they believe they should stay. If you believe that leaving is a ticket to Hell in a handbasket why would you leave. If your beliefs have changed - by all means explore alternative religions.
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Post by U R kiddiing on May 17, 2006 11:20:36 GMT -5
If this is what they believe they should stay. If you believe that leaving is a ticket to Hell in a handbasket why would you leave.
I hope you are joking. The reason someone believes that is because they've been brainwashed in a cult. You don't stay in cults - you leave. As difficult as it is, you leave.
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Post by Liz unplugged on May 17, 2006 11:44:00 GMT -5
I've often wondered, 'why me?' Why did I become dissatisfied with my 'walk with God' while in the 2x2 way when other professing folk seem perfectly content & happy ? And, because there were so many issues that bothered me about the way that I eventually had to leave, how could those same issues not be an issue to others in the way?!
Don't get me wrong! I'm soooooo glad to be out of the 2x2 way & wild horses couldn't drag me back.
Today, I'm happy to report that I'm finally able to 'live & let live'. For my family & friends who appear to be content within the way, I'm happy it works for them. And, I'm able to quit projecting my angst about the way onto them.
I had a great Aunt who, at age 80, realized the 2x2 way was anything BUT infallible. Yet, b/c of her age, she chose not to stop her involvement with the way simply b/c it (the whole professing lifestyle) was her life.
Being as the 2x2 way appears to be more lenient these days, I'm thinking that those who have issues with rules & regs are able to ignore the rules & regs w/o being called on the carpet. They can easily co-exist with such tenents b/c they are no longer strictly enforced. It makes staying in the way much easier.
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forest
Junior Member
Posts: 143
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Post by forest on May 17, 2006 12:09:40 GMT -5
... If your beliefs have changed - by all means explore alternative religions. Yes, very important: ... that nobody leave one cult and get into another cult!
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Post by true on May 17, 2006 12:12:23 GMT -5
"Being as the 2x2 way appears to be more lenient these days, I'm thinking that those who have issues with rules & regs are able to ignore the rules & regs w/o being called on the carpet. They can easily co-exist with such tenents b/c they are no longer strictly enforced. It makes staying in the way much easier. "
This is very true.
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Post by cultsarebad on May 17, 2006 15:01:47 GMT -5
Forest:
You are saying if one leaves the 2x2 cult & explores alternative religions then one is going from one cult into another. That very well may be. Many consider all organized religion (including christianity) a cult.
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forest
Junior Member
Posts: 143
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Post by forest on May 20, 2006 2:05:25 GMT -5
I know another family which also saw some things are wrong and inexplicable. But there is no enough weight to set a point and set a finish. The indoctrination seems to be to deep into their mind. So why did we find out? Can't understand others so easy.
Maybe 2x2 people should read an independent cult book like "Steven Hassan: Combatting Cult Mind Control"
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Post by IllinoisGal on May 20, 2006 8:13:06 GMT -5
If I were a 2x2 and left the way, I would be VERY sure I measured up the doctrine of what the bible says with my new found church.
As far as what you call rules and regs. I believe alot of that is mens preferences.
Since I can only go on what my opinion is and not facts on this matter I would believe it is very hard for a 2x2 person to make a new start and feel they can go to a church building because of the deeply ingrained issues of what they were taught previously.
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forest
Junior Member
Posts: 143
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Post by forest on May 20, 2006 10:01:08 GMT -5
Forest: You are saying if one leaves the 2x2 cult & explores alternative religions then one is going from one cult into another. That very well may be. Many consider all organized religion (including christianity) a cult. no, I would say if one leaves the 2x2 then he should be watchful! It's easy to get involved to a new or other cult. Not generally all is a cult. First people must find out the characteristics of cults and then they can decide it.
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Post by l on May 20, 2006 10:29:31 GMT -5
More people don't leave simply because they trust that a worker could do no wrong
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Post by guesty on May 20, 2006 22:00:24 GMT -5
If a person trusts that a worker can do no wrong then they need to experience the realization (be dissappointed) that they most certainly can and do wrong. They are people. I've repeatedly heard worker worship being called wrong and ungodly in the meetings. If a person chooses this form of worship then they will be sadly dissappointed. Any worker will tell you so.
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forest
Junior Member
Posts: 143
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Post by forest on May 21, 2006 4:05:27 GMT -5
More people don't leave simply because they trust that a worker could do no wrong of course LAS, and exact this attitude is part of teaching a cult. Also clearly to see in the described book and video from Steven Hassan.
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