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Post by Trying 8 on Jan 23, 2007 21:09:31 GMT -5
I think you're right; we have a disconnect here somewhere.
I can only find two questions about "punishment method":
Question 29: Thinking about when you yourself were a teenager, about how often would you say your mother or stepmother used physical punishment, like slapping or hitting you? Think about the year in which this happened the most.
Question 30: How about your father or stepfather? Again, thinking of the year in which it happened the most, how often would you say he used physical punishment in the course of a year?
Where do you find more?
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Post by Summery on Jan 23, 2007 21:18:28 GMT -5
Oh my! My previous post has nothing to do with spanking? Perhaps you should re-read it. That is the basis of the whole post! The studies go on to explain how punishment (not to be mistaken with discipline) distracts from problem solving, interferes with bonding, causes children to lock anger inside and possibly cause physical damage. In my previous post, I was giving some facts about "why not to spank." Was that not clear to you, "Random?" I would be more than glad to give you further clarification.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2007 21:43:24 GMT -5
Oh my! My previous post has nothing to do with spanking? Perhaps you should re-read it. That is the basis of the whole post! The studies go on to explain how punishment (not to be mistaken with discipline) distracts from problem solving, interferes with bonding, causes children to lock anger inside and possibly cause physical damage. In my previous post, I was giving some facts about "why not to spank." Was that not clear to you, "Random?" I would be more than glad to give you further clarification. summery, i am sorry for mistaking you for someone else
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Post by to admin on Jan 23, 2007 21:44:14 GMT -5
Dear Administrator: Please create a new sub-board for the kids here to use. Call it Day-Care. Thanks!!!
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Post by uh oh on Jan 23, 2007 21:45:35 GMT -5
Oh my! My previous post has nothing to do with spanking? Perhaps you should re-read it. That is the basis of the whole post! The studies go on to explain how punishment (not to be mistaken with discipline) distracts from problem solving, interferes with bonding, causes children to lock anger inside and possibly cause physical damage. In my previous post, I was giving some facts about "why not to spank." Was that not clear to you, "Random?" I would be more than glad to give you further clarification. summery, i am sorry for mistaking you for someone else uh oh
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Post by Just Looking on Jan 24, 2007 1:10:55 GMT -5
Oh my! My previous post has nothing to do with spanking? Perhaps you should re-read it. That is the basis of the whole post! The studies go on to explain how punishment (not to be mistaken with discipline) distracts from problem solving, interferes with bonding, causes children to lock anger inside and possibly cause physical damage. In my previous post, I was giving some facts about "why not to spank." Was that not clear to you, "Random?" I would be more than glad to give you further clarification. I think the point is that although your post did mention spanking, comparing that to abuse suffered by children is wildly inaccurate.
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Post by Summery on Jan 24, 2007 9:13:00 GMT -5
I would not say it is inaccurate, but that they really hammered the point. The study by this particular group went on to say that if we didn't spank children to begin with, they wouldn't end up where they are i.e low self worth, low self- esteem. When we hear people respond with, "well...I was spanked and I turned out ok." It causes one to wonder how much better could we have turned out had we not been spanked. Perhaps our self-esteem would have soared! Perhaps we could have thrived and flourished in ways we cannot imagine.
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Post by Chuck R on Jan 24, 2007 11:54:25 GMT -5
Summery, nearly every one of your original points got spanked good (pun intended) in reply 389. The author of that post didn't seem very interested in a reply from you (I'm not sure he thought you were serious) but I would like to see you defend your original statements. Half of your claims seem dubious at best and the fact that you say those things with no back-up or defense says a lot about your lack of moral character.
By the way, were you posting originally in this thread as "People Watcher"?
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Post by yeppers on Jun 27, 2007 0:34:06 GMT -5
Beet yer keds 2 a bloody pulp I say - teaches 'em whooz da boss!
Greatness peoples in history were beet as kids -
Stalin, Hitler, Sadaam, and GW Bush
Birds of a feather
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Jesus wasnt spanked
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Post by Jesus wasnt spanked on Jun 27, 2007 0:44:34 GMT -5
Jesus parents never had to spank him! Nuff said!
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Post by HOW on Jun 27, 2007 0:57:18 GMT -5
Jesus parents never had to spank him! Nuff said! Do YOU KNOW his earthly parents did not spank him?
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jgb
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Post by jgb on Jun 27, 2007 5:57:51 GMT -5
Gotta say the responses have been all over the place. As a father of five, I had two that spanking was all that worked and three that all I had to do was give them the "look" and they responded. Myself, Lord knows I was one that needed a good swat here and there. I can honestly say I never got a spanking I didn't deserve and shoud have gotten a whole bunch I didn't. Each child is an individual person and should be treated as such. My youngest was one that got into the tantrum stage and seemed to stay there. Couldn't find anything that worked for it. One day at the store he laid down in the floor and was throwing a doosy, I couldn't think of anything else so I lay down with him and started throwing one of my own. He stopped instantly, walked over to his Mom and asked her to take him away, Dad is embarrassing me. He never threw another one. Gotta get creative every now and then. Course my wife didn't speak to me for about a week but, ya gotta do what ya gotta do. Ya'll have a nice day, hear.
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Post by ARE U SURE on Jun 27, 2007 6:19:11 GMT -5
Jesus parents never had to spank him! Nuff said! How do you know? When are we able to read about the "lost years" when he was younger. He might have been beaten like a rented mule you don't know otherwise
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Post by ali on Jun 27, 2007 6:23:56 GMT -5
Gotta say the responses have been all over the place. As a father of five, I had two that spanking was all that worked and three that all I had to do was give them the "look" and they responded. Myself, Lord knows I was one that needed a good swat here and there. I can honestly say I never got a spanking I didn't deserve and shoud have gotten a whole bunch I didn't. Each child is an individual person and should be treated as such. My youngest was one that got into the tantrum stage and seemed to stay there. Couldn't find anything that worked for it. One day at the store he laid down in the floor and was throwing a doosy, I couldn't think of anything else so I lay down with him and started throwing one of my own. He stopped instantly, walked over to his Mom and asked her to take him away, Dad is embarrassing me. He never threw another one. Gotta get creative every now and then. Course my wife didn't speak to me for about a week but, ya gotta do what ya gotta do. Ya'll have a nice day, hear. ;D That's a great visual ....HILARIOUS..thanks. I find that removing privileges and time out in the naughty corner or their room has worked for mine...but I only have 2...and no plans for more! (Gonna quit while I'm ahead I guess! )
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Post by CherieKropp on Jun 27, 2007 6:29:31 GMT -5
How do we know Jesus wasn't spanked?
Because he was perfect, of course. When I was 4 years old, that was what I thought being perfect meant--never being spanked. And so as a little girl, I believed Jesus was never spanked. And my wise mother didn't correct my little girl definition.
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Post by Bump on Jun 27, 2007 8:45:52 GMT -5
Come on Hermie Nelson..........you know you like to be spanked!
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Post by Parents on Jun 27, 2007 14:30:09 GMT -5
How do we know Jesus wasn't spanked? Because he was perfect, of course. When I was 4 years old, that was what I thought being perfect meant--never being spanked. And so as a little girl, I believed Jesus was never spanked. And my wise mother didn't correct my little girl definition. Some parents will tell their kids anything. Whatever happened to the truth?
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Post by ah hah but on Jun 28, 2007 13:01:50 GMT -5
How do we know Jesus wasn't spanked? Because he was perfect, of course. Question is: were his parents perfect?
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beating vs spanking
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Post by beating vs spanking on Jul 2, 2007 21:48:14 GMT -5
I think that in general, to those born outside Truth, spanking and beating are two different things but to those born inside Truth, the line is not only blurred, it doesn't exist.
Take a man raised in a tightly knit group where everyone's business is everybody's business, where opinions are strong, absolute, and tied to salvation, where weakness in any area of life is seen as an indicator of ungodliness, where outward appearance and behavior are the primary indication of one's place in God's kingdom, and where the group's leadership is, by definition, childless and absent of natural parental instincts. Now this man is living under harsh conditions, paranoid of the judgment of others, frantic at the notion of being branded as a bad father, weak, unworthy, unsaved, etc. Is it really any wonder that a father in such an unhealthy, unnatural environment would treat his child in an unhealthy, unnatural way (ie beating rather than spanking)?
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Post by Phew on Jul 2, 2007 23:01:53 GMT -5
I think that in general, to those born outside Truth, spanking and beating are two different things but to those born inside Truth, the line is not only blurred, it doesn't exist. Take a man raised in a tightly knit group where everyone's business is everybody's business, where opinions are strong, absolute, and tied to salvation, where weakness in any area of life is seen as an indicator of ungodliness, where outward appearance and behavior are the primary indication of one's place in God's kingdom, and where the group's leadership is, by definition, childless and absent of natural parental instincts. Now this man is living under harsh conditions, paranoid of the judgment of others, frantic at the notion of being branded as a bad father, weak, unworthy, unsaved, etc. Is it really any wonder that a father in such an unhealthy, unnatural environment would treat his child in an unhealthy, unnatural way (ie beating rather than spanking)? It is after reading a heap of steaming crap like this I am so glad I decided to wear my boots.
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Post by I AM AMAZED on Jul 4, 2007 15:01:38 GMT -5
It is after reading a heap of steaming crap like this I am so glad I decided to wear my boots. Wow! So articulate, well thought out, insightful, and intelligent! Your intellect is truly a marvel of our modern age!
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Post by Distinction on Jul 5, 2007 8:16:03 GMT -5
.....unnatural way (ie beating rather than spanking)? What do you see as the difference? Both involve striking a child with enough force to cause pain. Both demonstrate to the child that the way to get your point across is through superior power. Both teach that if someone does not do as you wish striking them is the solution. Both show that in direct conflict of what parents tell their children, that the parents do not have to follow the rules. Hitting is OK.
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Post by FlyBall on Jul 5, 2007 18:34:25 GMT -5
What do you see as the difference? Intention. Purpose. Motivation. Goal. Commitment. Care. Love. Compassion. Dedication. (To name a few....) With the proper narrow mindset, one could make the case that the two are one and the same. But then again, some people think telling a child "no" is abuse. Debating such lunacy is really a waste of time. Nonetheless.... That depends on your definition of "striking", "child", "enough force", and "pain". With enough twist on these words, even your statement begins to make sense. Biased and rampant speculation like this makes me wonder if you believe this of if you're just trolling. But then again, I'm sure some people have such a narrow mindset as to believe such a thing as what you say with no real scientific evidence or practical experience. Wow. I guess this goes back to twisting definitions. With enough spin, you can make any statement sound plausible. Wow! You certainly know how to pack a lot in one statement. Unfortunately, all you've done is demonstrate a fundamental lack of understanding on your part when it comes to the delicate intricacies of the relationship between a parent and a child. Proper spanking is neither a "first resort" nor an "easy way out". Proper spanking is never easy and is always hard as hell to do. Proper spanking requires appropriate, proper, and effective communication between parent and child. (You touched on this with "what parents tell their children".) Proper spanking requires that the parent allow the child to be a child (contrary to the common abuse of today where children are treated as adults). (You touched on this with "parents do not have to follow the rules". The rules are different for parents and children. Parents can have sex, children can not (in healthy households anyway). See: Different rules. To suggest that children can do anything their parents do is simply perverse. One last thing: Your statement "Hitting is OK" may fly with some but it doesn't wash with me. Nobody said hitting is acceptable. The topic was spanking, not hitting. Do you get "sex" and "rape" mixed up too? I'm curious: Do you have kids?
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Post by I can explain on Jul 5, 2007 21:39:30 GMT -5
That depends on your definition of "striking", "child", "enough force", and "pain". With enough twist on these words, even your statement begins to make sense. Oh, let's use the standard definitions: child - A person who has not attained maturity or the age of legal majority. striking - The act of contacting one thing with another. enough - sufficient, as much as required. force - The act of contacting one thing with another. pain - an unpleasant feeling of discomfort that signals actual or potential injury to the body. which are twisted? I think a child is clear. Spanking without striking would be difficult, If there is not enough force then what is the point? Perhaps your spankings do not cause pain. I would be glad to consider any alternative definitions you may wish to use. Your children learn mostly by example. If you use pain (perhaps if you do not like the word pain you can explain what you believe the spanking does that causes the avoidance behavior)to correct/control your children what is the example you are setting? You will certainly teach them to avoid pain/punishment. But is that the lesson you want to teach? No, I firmly believe that you do not have to use physical punishment (or any punishment) to raise children. What it comes down to is communication. Proper spanking. There is an oxymoron. Why resort to physical punishment? Or any punishment? There are positive ways that have proved to be much more effective. I would love to hear someone explain to a 3 year old why they were going to hurt them. Perhaps the issue is that we want to communicate different things to our children. Do you tell your child you love them before/after the spanking? Of course the rules are different. But should it ever be allowable to hurt another person to force them to confirm to your wishes? Consensual sex and rape are both intercourse. Spanking and hitting are both striking. You cannot spank someone without hitting them. Or perhaps you can. But if that is the case please explain how you can spank someone without hitting (to come in contact with forcefully.) I do. And they were raised without spanking. And the best part - their children are not spanked either.
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tms
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Post by tms on Jul 5, 2007 23:48:18 GMT -5
THIS is a very interesting topic. I have a toddler. I spank her once in a blue moon, not much because it is not so effective. Different things work with her. When she screams because she has to take a nap or get in trouble, so she is in time out or go to room and she screams for over 30 minutes, you know the attention type of screaming..she goes into the cold shower to calm down..this happens about once a month. Its a shock thing. She just gets so worked up no talking can calm her. When she throws tantrums = over food or toys, the food goes away and she has to go in time out...if she is being naughty - her favorite toys go on top of the refrigerator for a day or two. She hates that. Today she was being naughty so I threw her favorite toy in the garbage...and took it out already. (its form the $1 store.) She is very spoiled acting, she screams if she doesnt like what I am fixing her to eat for a meal, so I just put it on the table, and after a few hours she eats it..I don't offer alternatives. She is pretty good overall. She minds, sometimes I have to raise my voice to get her to do something, but if she gets enough sleep she minds me after telling her 2X. As far as dangerous items, I just have the house childproof, I took out all the nicknacks and things like that. I have small dogs in the house and between them and the toddler there are no throw rugs, no nicknacks, no nice furniture, its all easy to clean, and not breakable. I limit her toys to only really sturdy things, and if she breaks a toy or rips a book, I throw it away...She has very few toys which is fine. She is allowed to play in the tupperware drawer. My husband spanks more than me, it works for him but I like to take things away and do time out. My parents spanked me until I was 14. I think that was too excessive, but we have a good relationship. I was quite the teen anyways. I think spanking is OK, but it depends on the child and the parents needs to control their temper.
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Post by FlyBall on Jul 6, 2007 0:00:44 GMT -5
Oh, let's use the standard definitions: child - A person who has not attained maturity or the age of legal majority. striking - The act of contacting one thing with another. enough - sufficient, as much as required. force - The act of contacting one thing with another. pain - an unpleasant feeling of discomfort that signals actual or potential injury to the body. striking = force I'll assume that was an oversight. It's the words you choose to make your point. You must be a lawyer - choose the most inflammatory words to describe what you are railing against. Are you capable of reason or are you just here to blindly push an agenda. What about cause and effect? Play with fire, get burned. Let's sue fire for abusing people. Part of life is learning that there are reactions to our actions. Some reactions are physical. Doesn't matter whether you're a kid or not. I'm teaching that our actions in life have consequences. Welcome to life. Do you play with fire? Do you play with guns? Do you do drugs? Do you mix household chemicals for fun? Cause and effect. Yep. Absolutely. Play with fire, get burned! They better learn it. Nice theory (I used to buy it). Then reality set in when I had kids. "No punishment." LOL. It sounds so silly now. Oh those crazy idealistic naive college days. Yes, and when communication fails, other means are employed. Communication can only be effective if both communicating parties are, at least in part, reasonable. What did you do when in the course of communicating, your children failed to be reasonable? So did your children inherit your intolerance for the personal life choices of other people? This shows the difference between you and I. I say if people don't want to spank, that is their choice. You say people shouldn't spank. I suspect you would force it on me if you could. Because in some cases, it is necessary. Do you honestly mean to tell me you NEVER punished your children? NEVER? Let's see some real proof. I did and still do. But just because they understand the spoken word doesn't make it any easier. I imagine this is hard for you to consider but think about the things in life that punish you. Fire doesn't give you an explanation before it burns you. I want to prepare my children for real life and teach them what they need to know to be healthy, successful, happy, productive, and confident adults in their world. I tell my children I love them all the time. More importantly though, I show them that I love them by doing what's right, even if it isn't easy, and even if someone else who doesn't know or understand me wants to unfavorably judge my actions. Absolutely. It happens all the time. It's legal. It's right. If you resist arrest, the police can use force, often resulting in pain, to force you to conform to their wishes. Opposing punishment though, I'm guessing you don't like the police? Consensual sex and rape are different. Spanking and hitting are different. But you can hit someone without spanking them. You like the word hit because it allows you to dirty the act of spanking. This is what extremists do, just as some extremists say that "all sex is rape" (even between consensual married couples). You are missing the point. Let's talk about spanking a child. Let's not talk about hitting a child. There is a distinct difference. Take the extremism out of the discussion (if you dare) so we can discuss this like adults. If you insist on the inflammatory rhetoric, our exchange is pointless. Great, and assuming they are truly healthy, successful, happy, productive, and confident adults, I congratulate you on your success. Some children are easier to deal with than others. I happen to recognize that when it comes to raising a child, some parents have different needs than others. Do you recognize the same, or do you think all parents can make do with your parenting style?
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Post by Back again on Jul 6, 2007 13:10:56 GMT -5
striking = force I'll assume that was an oversight. It was.
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Jilly
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Post by Jilly on Jul 6, 2007 15:29:58 GMT -5
THIS is a very interesting topic. I have a toddler. I spank her once in a blue moon, not much because it is not so effective. Why do you think it does not work? Different things work with her. When she screams because she has to take a nap or get in trouble, so she is in time out or go to room and she screams for over 30 minutes, you know the attention type of screaming..she goes into the cold shower to calm down..this happens about once a month. Its a shock thing. She just gets so worked up no talking can calm her.Sounds like nurse Ratched from One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. At a hospital I used to work the old the records show cold water treatments, much like you describe, and wrapping people in cold wet sheets. They were discontinued because it was ruled they were barbaric and inhumane. Just because something works it does not mean it is a good idea. When she throws tantrums = over food or toys, the food goes away and she has to go in time out...if she is being naughty - her favorite toys go on top of the refrigerator for a day or two. She hates that. Today she was being naughty so I threw her favorite toy in the garbage...and took it out already. (its form the $1 store.)
You cannot win a conflict over food. I cannot believe you took a child's favorite toy, put it in the garbage, and took the garbage out. What a loss for the child. Imagine someone taking your favorite object and discarding it. She is very spoiled acting, she screams if she doesnt like what I am fixing her to eat for a meal, so I just put it on the table, and after a few hours she eats it..I don't offer alternatives.I wonder if you would offer alternatives for an adult. Just out of curiosity, why not offer her some small selection to choose from so she has at least some say in her diet? Is it really important for you to be in control? She is pretty good overall. She minds, sometimes I have to raise my voice to get her to do something, but if she gets enough sleep she minds me after telling her 2X.She is probably worried something she likes will be taken from her. As far as dangerous items, I just have the house childproof, I took out all the nicknacks and things like that. I have small dogs in the house and between them and the toddler there are no throw rugs, no nicknacks, no nice furniture, its all easy to clean, and not breakable. I limit her toys to only really sturdy things, and if she breaks a toy or rips a book, I throw it away...She has very few toys which is fine. She is allowed to play in the tupperware drawer.
Did you ever think of sitting with her and repairing the damage? But then she has most likely learned by this time not to become too attached to anything or it will be taken away as a punishment. My husband spanks more than me, it works for him but I like to take things away and do time out.The more I read the more I think this is a put on. My parents spanked me until I was 14. I think that was too excessive, but we have a good relationship. I was quite the teen anyways.Did the spanking stop you from doing whatever it was you were doing wrong? I think spanking is OK, but it depends on the child and the parents needs to control their temper. Wow! Stunning report.
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