proposal for the 2x2s
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Post by proposal for the 2x2s on Apr 12, 2006 11:06:06 GMT -5
I just got an idea... whatabout if the fessin folks were to have their own little OT and NT switch, ya know, casting aside old rules and regulations and living more liberally and more by love than rules.
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Post by old and new on Apr 12, 2006 11:07:03 GMT -5
They could call it "The Old Bun" and "The New Bun" !!!
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Post by withopeneyes (Mandy) on Apr 12, 2006 12:24:25 GMT -5
A lot of us are trying to live by love, not by rules. I don't think it's just the F&W. Catholics and other religions have the same problem.
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Post by as i c it on Apr 12, 2006 12:55:41 GMT -5
I think the "falling away": the troubles within the fellowship: the younger generation: and the new knowledge about the true history: have all caused change--and a new "awareness" to start entering into the fellowship. And a "falling away" from the rules.
When your "world" (belief system) gets "all shook up"--you have to re-examine what you (truly) believe. And what is (really) "true". And then adjust (in some way) to your new knowledge.
Laws of love are needed to cope with all the changes...and all the "downfalls" of those you love--and what you love--and who you (really) love.
With so many of the "faithful ones" gone....or their marriages falling apart....or workers leaving...you notice...and start loving/appreciating those who remain....
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towit
Senior Member
. . .with charity for all; with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right. . .
Posts: 295
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Post by towit on Apr 12, 2006 12:56:44 GMT -5
I just got an idea... whatabout if the fessin folks were to have their own little OT and NT switch, ya know, casting aside old rules and regulations and living more liberally and more by love than rules. I love my kids, and my kids love me. But, I in my love for them- give them rules. If I didn't give them rules- just kind of let them decide on their own what was right and wrong- then I wouldn't be showing them much love. They in their love- keep the rules. They really do want to please me. I want to please my heavenly Father. I don't want to grieve the Holy Spirit. Jesus said, "If you love me, keep my commandments." Sincerely, towit |
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what a nice way to put it
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Post by what a nice way to put it on Apr 12, 2006 13:05:32 GMT -5
I think the "falling away": the troubles within the fellowship: the younger generation: and the new knowledge about the true history: have all caused change--and a new "awareness" to start entering into the fellowship. And a "falling away" from the rules. When your "world" (belief system) gets "all shook up"--you have to re-examine what you (truly) believe. And what is (really) "true". And then adjust (in some way) to your new knowledge. Laws of love are needed to cope with all the changes...and all the "downfalls" of those you love--and what you love--and who you (really) love. With so many of the "faithful ones" gone....or their marriages falling apart....or workers leaving...you notice...and start loving/appreciating those who remain.... Oh, I see, so as the pickins get slimmer, people who once weren't considered to be anything much are suddenly gaining status, climbing that ladder because there's open spots? Well isn't that sweet! |
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Post by sounds familiar on Apr 12, 2006 13:06:53 GMT -5
I just got an idea... whatabout if the fessin folks were to have their own little OT and NT switch, ya know, casting aside old rules and regulations and living more liberally and more by love than rules. I love my kids, and my kids love me. But, I in my love for them- give them rules. If I didn't give them rules- just kind of let them decide on their own what was right and wrong- then I wouldn't be showing them much love. They in their love- keep the rules. They really do want to please me. I want to please my heavenly Father. I don't want to grieve the Holy Spirit. Jesus said, "If you love me, keep my commandments." Sincerely, towit Ah, that's what all you professing folks use as an excuse for all your rules and tradtions and standards... come on, enough of that crap, we're all darn sick of it! |
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Post by as i c it on Apr 12, 2006 13:42:54 GMT -5
"what a nice way to put it",
yes, as you lose those you loved, you value (more) those who remain. Because now you're aware that they, too, could "go" from your life, and your church. You cease taking people (and their presence) "for granted".
And yes...it is sweet (to value those you once didn't know--or know very well--more so) as you get to know them better!!!
Very sweet indeed!!!
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Post by BUT on Apr 12, 2006 13:47:12 GMT -5
yeah BUT... don't you ever feel guilty that they were not good enough befor but now they are because there's no one better???
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Post by most on Apr 12, 2006 14:19:39 GMT -5
yeah BUT... don't you ever feel guilty certainly |
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Post by as i c it on Apr 12, 2006 14:20:22 GMT -5
"but",
It wasn't that anyone wasn't "good enough" before...It's like in all things: You don't value something (or, in this case) "someone"--until they're gone. You just "assume" they'll "always be there"....(or "it'll" always be there). Then you learn--not so...so you'd best appreciate whoever (or whatever) while they (or "it") is around.
As in work/or neighborhood--when changes occur--you form new relationships with those who remain...or who come into existence.
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Post by ahBUT on Apr 12, 2006 14:55:35 GMT -5
ah BUT it is so much more noticeable and frequent amongst the 2x2s with all their status bullsh-...but you folks will never admit to that so whatever...fact is though, you know damn well what I mean and I just hope you someday have the balls to be honest about, even if only to yourself.
All the best.
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Post by rules on Apr 12, 2006 14:55:45 GMT -5
I love my kids, and my kids love me. But, I in my love for them- give them rules. If I didn't give them rules- just kind of let them decide on their own what was right and wrong- then I wouldn't be showing them much love. They in their love- keep the rules. They really do want to please me. I want to please my heavenly Father. I don't want to grieve the Holy Spirit. Jesus said, "If you love me, keep my commandments." Sincerely, towit Yes, and what rules did Jesus bring? 2. 2 commandments. That is it. 2. |
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Post by slow to see on Apr 12, 2006 15:16:14 GMT -5
I think it would be safe to repeat "LOVE the Lord your God with ALL your heart mind and soul, and THEN , go and do what you want with NO rules.
Understanding what pleases the Lord would make us want to obey HIM. Rules ALWAYS have some loophole or a way around them- LOVE does not.
Alvin
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towit
Senior Member
. . .with charity for all; with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right. . .
Posts: 295
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Post by towit on Apr 12, 2006 15:46:10 GMT -5
I think it would be safe to repeat "LOVE the Lord your God with ALL your heart mind and soul, and THEN , go and do what you want with NO rules. Understanding what pleases the Lord would make us want to obey HIM. Rules ALWAYS have some loophole or a way around them- LOVE does not. Alvin Alvin, Beautifully put. My sentiments exactly. If we love God- then we don't do everything we want- we instead do what pleases the Father and not ourselves. Love is much more powerful than law. Therefore, we are also showing by our actions- who we love- our Father or ourselves. Sincerely, towit |
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Post by as i c it on Apr 12, 2006 16:09:57 GMT -5
ahBut,
There WAS a tendency present...from the old school of thinking (and times) now that I recall...
The way it went was: follow the workers. follow the "highly esteemed/approved friends"...
But now, with women working (and all the rest that's taken place)...I think we've been "scattered"...and now most just lead their own lives...most of the time..
Women were once "stuck" at home. Their "job" was their house, husband, and family members...and...maybe helping the elderly/sick, within the church. Socializing (with others) was something they had the time and strength to do (with all the preparations).
But today--women work outside the home--and then they come home to find more work to do.
In the house, yard, and with the kids--and with "getting ready for the next day of work".
"Tea parties"--don't (really) exist much anymore...for the many. (And, with all the changes within the church...and many of the "highly esteemed...for all their good works" gone...there aren't many "follow the good examples'" left to follow....(Not like in times past).
"The church" (like the rest of society) works! Takes care of their family. And their responsibilities--and the old days of "community leaders" and "church leaders"--and "good deeds"--which once created such "high esteem"--and which still (of course) continue to be done--just doesn't create the same impact of those days.
The world has changed. "Esteem" comes from so many other places/things/people...
What once made for "the standards"....in clothing and activities...aren't being followed the same...
"Status" once achieved because "whole families" professed...(gone) because, (again) so many have left
So, with the "standards" for what once gave "that status" gone....what's left is ...just friendship because you click...
(Elders and workers, of course, still retain a degree of status--like others would in any other church) but...it's not the status of old.
Peace to you, too.
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Post by perhaps on Apr 12, 2006 16:43:12 GMT -5
Perhaps it is not the status of old, but, at least where I come from, it is very much tainted with who is in the way and who is not, and of what calibre they are, and that is wrong no matter how you explain it or try to talk around it.
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Post by good on Apr 12, 2006 16:54:44 GMT -5
I love my kids, and my kids love me. But, I in my love for them- give them rules. If I didn't give them rules- just kind of let them decide on their own what was right and wrong- then I wouldn't be showing them much love. They in their love- keep the rules. They really do want to please me. I want to please my heavenly Father. I don't want to grieve the Holy Spirit. Jesus said, "If you love me, keep my commandments." Sincerely, towit Ah, that's what all you professing folks use as an excuse for all your rules and tradtions and standards... come on, enough of that crap, we're all darn sick of it! good go of and get sicker  |
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Post by as i c it on Apr 12, 2006 18:37:15 GMT -5
"perhaps",
Perhaps we were discussing different issues. I was thinking of those ONLY within the fellowship. You've brought up those in--as well as--those out. And, I agree with you. There is "a difference" still "present" between the two groups.
And yes, with (maybe, workers): and SOME friends, there is still a "difference" between the "really good" and "the border-line" ones. But the "impact" has certainly lessen!!!
In the past: status came about because you were one of "the good examples" upholding "all the standards". (No this/that/and the other thing: and always in meetings:etc) And with women home--association (and non-association) outside of meetings, often "defined" who was who (status-wise) in the fellowship.
"Everyone" accepted the definition of "the standards": and those who violated them....were "avoided" (as being "bad influences")...and...maybe "not quite "right-spirited")...
And of course it had an impact. To not be approved (in the fellowship) was close to being treated as--almost--an outsider)...Your reputation/association/acceptance--was "felt". (good and bad)
Today, of course, it still is...but...not like then. Not everyone believes--or accepts--or rejects--the same things. Especially with the younger generation. They (freely) wear slacks: or make-up: go to movies: and play sports. The influence (and power) that came from such and such families--is gone. You can't point to "the kids" as upholding those standards--because so many aren't...even in "the good" families.
And with today's "busy"ness...and women working...socialization among the friends isn't what it once was. (While "status" may still be there--it's not so much from "righteousness" now: and certainly not based on the same things).
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Post by horsewoman on Apr 13, 2006 2:52:23 GMT -5
I for one don't think there is a whole lot wrong with rules and tradition. For me at this time in my life, rules keep me grounded. Sometimes one just needs to know what to expect. In past posts I have addressed the appearance issue. Not professing hasn't changed my resolution to be more modest, more discreet. This is the central issue of my "rule". Not appearances for appearances sake, but a reflection of how my heart and mind are being changed.
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Post by jxr on Apr 13, 2006 6:46:36 GMT -5
I just got an idea... whatabout if the fessin folks were to have their own little OT and NT switch, ya know, casting aside old rules and regulations and living more liberally and more by love than rules. I love my kids, and my kids love me. But, I in my love for them- give them rules. If I didn't give them rules- just kind of let them decide on their own what was right and wrong- then I wouldn't be showing them much love. They in their love- keep the rules. They really do want to please me. I want to please my heavenly Father. I don't want to grieve the Holy Spirit. Jesus said, "If you love me, keep my commandments." Sincerely, towit Sure, you give them rules... ...at first. Then you are obliged to ensure they develop understanding. For the most part, rules are a wholly inadequate form of behaviour control. Imparting understanding is the goal. That is what growth and development are about. That is partly what life experience with the Holy Spirit is supposed to help with. That is what adding to our faith is all about. |
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Post by bonnie unlogged on Apr 13, 2006 7:05:51 GMT -5
Rules Rules Rules, wasn't that the old law? Wasn't that why God sent His preious son, God made flesh, so we would be able to live through a living example of the word. Man's rules don't work, but if you let Jesus reign and you want him to, then man's rules are not necessary. You have something with true power guiding, leading, and wining your heart.
Rules are necessary in our natural life. But in our spiritual life, a bun, dress, meeting are only the rules, not the living source that will truly set you free of man's rules.
Thank goodness for the leading and guiding of the Holy Spirit, which helps us discern from right and wrong, love and hate, showing mercy and not etc....
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Post by as i c it on Apr 13, 2006 12:57:17 GMT -5
But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. (James 3:17) God is holy, and He does want holy individuals. (This is made pretty clear if you even read what is found in your Bible concordance under the word "Holy"). Corinthians 3: 6 speaks of "not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life". Following rules --just to fit into "the right look" (without the Holy Spirit drawing you to do so) will be hard to endure...and kill your spirit. It isn't the Holy Spirit doing the work (or the "building"): it's not easy to endure (in fact, it causes resentment--because it's taking away what you value (your outward appearance) without giving you something better: and it's done for the wrong reason (with your eyes on man and gaining their approval--instead of God's) But, when the Holy Spirit is doing the work, it ceases to be a rule that you "have to" follow: and becomes, instead, a "want to"--giving you pleasure and joy (in how you look). It's pure, and gentle and easy to be intreated--and there is no hypocrisy (between what you are inwardly and outwardly). In any case, even in the world (and as a "worldly individual") dress always "defines" an individual....sends a "message" to others. And I would think, if an individual is a christian (of any church) that the message from the Holy Spirit would always be one for modesty...  Especially as the individual grew in spirit... |
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Post by as i c it on Apr 13, 2006 13:12:19 GMT -5
Also Roman 7:6
"But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held: that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter".
If the Holy Spirit does the work in our lives, then God receives the glory for what is done. (He--His Holy Spirit--has changed the human spirit into becoming holy)...in whatever area the work has been done.
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