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Post by humm on Apr 10, 2006 17:30:11 GMT -5
This is for Las as you seem to think that you hold all the cards on knowing in absolute the history of our fellowship.
A few years ago, I became aware of an old church that lived In the Alpine Valleys In Italy and France during the middle Ages and before the time of the Protestant Reformation. I have always believed that simple faith and fellowship established during the New Testament times existed outside of organised religion even until our present day. Several books written by Historians years ago reaffirmed my understanding. Listed below is some of the information I found, although I did not In any way research it myself. I was amazed at bow closely the fellowship; ministry and manner of worship of these people resembled the first century church.
I read about a travelling Itinerant ministry, very similar if not the same as the apostle Paul. Among such teachers was Pierre de Brueys' a sincere and diligent preacher who, for twenty years, braving all dangers, travelled throughout Dauphiny, [Atnguedoe, and Gascony, drawing multitudes from the superstitions in which they had been brought up, back to the teachings of Scripture, until he was burned at St Giles in 1126. He showed from Scripture that none should be baptised until they come to the age of understanding and attained to the full use of their reason; that it to useless to build churches, as God accepts sincere worship wherever offered, that crucifixes should not be adored, but rather looked upon with horror, as representing the Instrument on which our Lord suffered?, that the bread and wine are not changed into the body and blood of Christ, but are symbols commemorative of His Death and that the prayers and good works of the living cannot benefit the dead.
A certain Individual living in Lyon, France, who was a successful merchant and banker was aroused to see his need Of salvation by the sudden death of one of the guests at a feast he had given. He became so much interested in the Scriptures that in 1160 he employed clerks to translate parts into the Roman dialect.. A theologian directed him to the Lord's words. In Matthew 19*21 'If thou wilt be perfect go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor and thou shalt have treasure in heaven, and come and follow Me. He therefore in 1173 made over his landed Property to his wife, sold the remainder and distributed it among the poor.
For a time he devoted himself to the study of the Scriptures and in 1180 gave himself to traveling and preaching, taking as a guide, the Lords words: He sent His disciples two and two before His face into every city and Place wither He Himself would come.
Therefore said He unto them, the harvest, truly Is great but the labourers (workers) are few, pray Ye therefore the Lord of the harvest that He would send forth labourers into His harvest. Go your ways: behold I send you forth as lambs among wolves. Carry neither purse nor scrip nor shoes: and
salute no man by the way. “Luke 10:1 KJV Companions joined Him and travelling and preaching in this way, came to be known by others as the “Poor men of Lyon”. They tried to bring to the church of their day a sense of the church as it was at the time of the Apostles. The primitive church founded their faith and Practice On the Scriptures and were followers of those who from the earliest times had done the same. For outsiders to give them the name of a man prominent among them was only to follow the usual habit of their opponents, who did not like to admit their right to call themselves, as they did, “Christians.”
This man with his companions, and others like them directed multitudes of souls to the Scriptures, where they learn to draw for themselves fresh and Inexhaustible supplies from the wells of “salvation.” They disputed openly and called the people to solemn meetings in homes, in the market places or in the open fields. They were of all classes, nobles common folks, rich and Poor, men and women. Primitive churches were spread throughout Europe in the twelfth and thirteenth centuries, and in some parts they had a large measure of liberty; though elsewhere they were subjected to the most cruel persecution. Many names were given go them, yet they were essentially one and had constant communication and fellowship with one another. It is evident they were not the fruits of an effort to reform the Roman and Greek churches bearing no traces of the influence of those churches. They indicate, on the contrary, the continuance of an old tradition, handed down how quite another source ? the teaching of the Scripture and the practice of the primitive church. Their existence proves that there had always been men of faith, men of spiritual power and understanding who had maintained in the churches a tradition close to that of apostolic days, and far removed from that which the dominant churches had developed.
In accordance with the usual habit of attaching some sectarian name to any who endeavoured to return to the teaching of Scripture, many were called at this time. Petrobrussians, Henricians names which they themselves never acknowledged. Bernard of Clairvaux, the most powerful religious man in Europe at that time, complained bitterly of their objection to taking the name of anyone as their founder. He said: “Inquire of them the author of their sect and they will assign none”.
During the early 13th century, the believers were persecuted horribly and were burned alive at the stake or put in bags and drowned in rivers. Under the direction of high religious authorities and led by Simon do Montfort, a man of boundless ambition and ruthless cruelty, the early church was persecuted and ravaged. At the time of the capture of about 140 believers, women were found in one house, men in another engaging in prayer as they awaited their doom. De Montfort had a great pile of wood prepared, and told them to be converted to the Catholic faith or mount that pile. They answered that they were not under any papal or priestly authority, only that of Christ and His Word. The pile was lighted and the confessors, without hesitation, entered the flames. Later, at the council of Toulouse in 1229, when, the inquisition was made a permanent Institution, the Bible, excepting only the Latin Psalter, was forbidden to laymen. It was decreed that the common people might have no part of the Bible translated into their own language. In the view of this early church, the Bible was not a “sacred” book in Latin for the sole and exclusive us of the learned but was to be studied and meditated upon day in and day out by all people.
At times, the terror of the Inquisition made public preaching impossible. During those periods, the believers were constrained to keep the faith alive within the walls of their homes
Indeed within the recesses of their own hearts. Yet if the street were closed to them, they still had their gatherings in the kitchen, at their washing places by the streams, In their live stock stables and in their shops; any place where teaching and mutual strengthening in the faith could be carried on. The community was not entirely devoid of means of reaching out beyond the family circle, for the desire to communicate, to teach and to evangelise was always present.
One inquisitor’s remark may be typical: “Not one of them, old or young, man or woman, by day or by night ever stops learning and teaching others.”
In the Alpine valleys of Piedmont them had been for centuries congregations of believers. They traced their origin in those parts back to apostolic times. Like many of the other churches, these were not 'reformed', never having degenerated from the New Testament pattern as had the Roman, Greek, and some others, but having always maintained in varying degree, the apostolic tradition. There had continued to be a succession of those who preached the Gospel and founded home churches, uninfluenced by the relations between Church and State existing at the time. They considered the Scriptures, both for doctrine and church order, to be binding for their time, and not rendered obsolete by change of circumstances. It was said of them that their whole manner of thought and action was an endeavour to hold fast the character of original Christianity. To me this seems as paramount today as it was long ago.
A prior of the monastery of St, Roch was ordered to write an account of the history and opinions of these people in 1630. He wrote that they are so ancient as to afford no absolute certainty with regard to the precise time of their origin, but that, in any event, In the ninth and tenth centuries they were even then not a new sect. They could always assert without fear of contradiction the uniformity of their faith, from father to son, through time immemorial, even from the very age of the apostles. They stated: "this religion which we live is not merely our religion of the present day, or a religion discovered for the first time only a few years ago, an our enemies falsely pretend, but It is the religion of our fathers and of our grandfathers, even of our forefathers and of our predecessors still more remote. It is the religion of the saints and of the martyrs, of the confessors and of the apostles. When they came into contact with the reformers in the sixteenth century they said: “Our ancestors have often recounted to us that we have existed from the time of the apostles.”
The Catholic inquisitor said in a report to the Pope at the time; “They have existed from time Immemorial. It would not be difficult to prove that this poor band of the faithful were in the valleys of Piedmont more than four centuries before the appearance of Lather and Calvin.
They are in fact descendants of those refugees from Italy, who, after ST, Paul had there preached the Gospel, abandoned their beautiful country and fled, like the woman mentioned in the Apocalypse, to these wild mountains, where they have to this day handed down the Gospel from father to son, in the same purity and simplicity as it was preached by St, Paul.
Some among these brethren devoted themselves entirely to travelling and ministering the Word, and were called “ the Perfect", In accordance with the Lord's words in Matthew 19?21, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: come and follow me. They possessed nothing, had no home, and literally acted upon this command. The word ‘perfect' at the time mentioned above had the meaning of 'maturity* or 'completeness as opposed to our present day meaning which Implies ‘Without any fault'. We know that Jesus was the only human who was perfect in that sense. It also meant perfect in desire.
They were also called ‘the Barbes' (pronounced ‘barbi’) which in the ancient Italian dialect of the area means the uncles". Presumably, the children were taught to call the apostles ... “Barbes” or “Uncle” because the barbes were brothers in Christ to their believing parents. Another term that can be used in 'workers' remembering the words of Jesus in Matthew 9?36?38 'When go saw the crowds, He had compassion on them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd. Then He said to his disciples, The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into the harvest field. NIV (Now International Version). It was recognised that all are not Called to such a path, and that the majority of believers, while acknowledging that they and all they have belong to Christ, should serve Him while remaining in their families and continuing In their usual occupations.
Those whom they called “the Barbes” played an important part in their testimony. While the elders remained in their homes and churches, these Itinerant ministers travelled continually, visiting the churches in secret ? often at night. A distinction was made between those called to be in the ministry and others of the followers of Christ, based on the fact that in the Gospels some were called to sell all that they had and follow Christ, while others of His disciples were equally called to serve Him in the surroundings in which He found them. The ministers had no property or goods or home or family; if they had these they left them. Their life was one of self?denial, hardship and danger. They travelled in utmost simplicity, with neither money and nor a second suit; their needs being supplied by the believers among whom they Ministered the Word. They always went two together, an older and a younger men, the latter aiding his older companion. Their visits were highly esteemed, and they were treated with every token of respect and affection. The name “Friends of God” was often given to them. Great care was used in commending men to such service.
Apart from the Holy Scriptures the believers had no special profession of faith or religion, nor any rules and no authority at any man, however eminent, was allowed to set aside the authority of Scripture. Yet throughout the centuries, and in all countries, they professed the same truth and had the same practices. They valued Christ’s own words, in the Gospels as being the highest revelation, and ever they were unable to reconcile, any of His words with other portions of Scripture, while they accepted all they acted on what seemed to them the plain meaning of the Gospel. Following Christ was their chief theme and aim, keeping His words imitating His example. The Spirit of Christ, they said, is effective in any man in the measure in which he obeys the words of Christ, and is His true follower. It is only Christ who can give the ability to understand His words. If anyone loves Him, he will keep His words. A few great truths were looked upon as essential to fellowship, but otherwise, in matters open to doubt or to difference in view, large liberty was allowed. They maintained that the inner testimony of the indwelling Spirit of Christ is of great importance since the highest truths come from the heart to the mind not that their revelation is given, but a clearer understanding of the Word.
The portion of Scripture most dwell was the Sermon on the Mount, this being looked upon as the rule of life for the children of God. The brethren were opposed to the shedding of blood, even to capital punishment, to any use of force in matters of faith and to taking any proceedings against such as harmed them. They would take no oaths nor use the name of God or of Divine things lightly. They did not admit the claim of the great organized church to open or close the way at salvation, nor did they believe, that salvation was through any sacraments or by anything but faith in Christ, which showed itself in the activities of love. They held the doctrine of the sovereignty of God in election, together with that of man's free will. They considered that in all times there were, enlightened men of God.
The love of theological disputation and pamphlet war was not developed among them, and so many other’s; yet they were ready to die for the truth, placed great importance on the value of practical piety and desired in quietness to serve, God and to do good. In matters of church order they practiced simplicity, and there was nothing among them corresponding to that which had grown up in the Church of Rome. Yet, the churches and elders accepted their responsibilities with the utmost seriousness. The Lord's supper was for all believers, and was looked upon as a remembrance of the Lord's body given for them and at the same, time as a strong exhortation, to yield their lives to be broken and poured out for His sake.
Regular individual reading of the scriptures, regular daily family worship, and frequent conventions were among the most highly prized means of maintaining spiritual life. These saints would take no part in government and they said the apostles were often brought before tribunals, but it is not ever said that they sat as judges. Spirit taught laymen undertook the functions of preachers and college education was not the prerequisite to the ministry of Christ, rather the willingness to follow Christ in his teaching. (Luke 18:22).
In late May 1994, I visited Torre Pellice In western Italy with two good friends. This small Italian village is in the eastern slopes of the Cottian Alps and to located in the area where many of these believers lived and to which a number of the Itinerant ministers resorted during the winter months. Leaving the village and climbing higher into the Alps on increasingly narrower roads, we passed spectacular scenery and rugged, rocky terrain to Pra del Torno in the Angrogna Valley. Pra del Torno is one of the oldest and most interesting places of the area. Situated far up the Angrogna Valley in an absolutely secluded vale surrounded closely on all sides by high mountains, its position made it the refuge of the Inhabitants when they were in
danger of attack. Many fierce combats have taken place in its approach.
A steep, unscalable, mountain, named Roccagia runs right across the valley except where some convolution of nature has rent the, mountains and formed a long dark chasm through which the Angrogna torrent falls. Eventually, we could go no farther with the car and we set out on foot for five minutes of steep ascent to find a very old and modest stone cottage which had once served as a retreat for the “barbes” during the l4th, 15th and 16th centuries. It was from here and other similar places that the itinerant ministers fanned out across all of Europe carrying the good news of Jesus Christ to present day Germany, Hungary, Sicily, Spain and beyond.
This home was built in a lightly wooded, area high on the steep, slope beside a clear mountain stream which no doubt supplied both drinking and wash water. The building is Approximately 14 feet by 18 feet and consists of one main room which has a massive flat stone for a tabletop and a fireplace. Six hundred years ago or more the “barbes” sat around this table. Attached to the side or this main building two or three small additions are stepped up the hillside and were available for sleeping quarters. In one of these rooms, we noticed a bed of dry leaves on the earth floor which must have been typical of the 14th century sleeping conditions.
The entire structure is made of earth or stone floors with thick solid stonewalls. It is roofed with flat stones approximately 1” thick laid up like shingles on a hand hewn pole roof frame.
The Itinerant ministers came here during the winter season when the harsh Alpine winters filled the valleys with deep snow and prevented them from travelling and preaching. It was here that they came to meet with alternating or young companions and to met out again with renewed hearts for the new mission year.. Without printed Bibles, they no doubt needed time together to study copy manuscripts and memorize the scriptures. It is a well-attested fact that they learned by heart much of the New Testament and Psalms. "They carried the scripture in their hearts and minds during a period when it would have been in the Valdesi area. Had it been prepared today, it might have read with equal simplicity “ Workers”. As we descended from this stone cottage where some of the “Barbes” wintered, we pumped an older woman sitting peacefully in a little Alpine meadow close to the road tending her flock of Sheep and goats and three cows. It was such a tranquil pastoral setting that we stopped to ask her if it would be all right to take a picture of her flock. As my friend approached her, he couldn't help but notice that she quietly slipped a Bible which she had been reading into her bag and took out her knitting. She spoke only Italian and we spoke only English and so no conversation was possible but as we drove away, we couldn't help but wonder if somewhere a few of the old Valdesi exist today.
During certain periods of history, the local people were required under pain of death to attend a Roman Catholic Church service. Either before or after the official church service, they met secretly in a remote cave to worship God in “Spirit and in Truth” and to have genuine fellowship with other believers. It was Interesting to visit this cave with its tiny secluded entrance in the woods far above the inhabited valley below. The very low entrance to the cave restricted passage to individuals who were willing to enter on their knees.
A few kilometers away we visited Chanforan. It was here high on the mountain hillside in 1532 that the primitive church. Including both those in the ministry and those settled in home life, came together for a six day convention. One of the main purposes of these meetings was to determine if they should respond to the overtures being made by certain people within the new Protestant Reformation movment. The decision was not unanimous. Many believed that this could be a dangerous turning point and called for reconsideration, However the majority decided to join to some extent with these new reformers. A further decision was also made to translate the Bible into French.
After the decision in 1532 to join the reformers, the majority of the ancient church grew away from its New Testament basis and evolved into a mainstream church, gradually constructing church buildings with all the indicia of a modern organization. No doubt they were influenced by the thinking of the reformers who were struggling for separation from the
Catholic church. These reformers had left the Catholic church, because they disagreed on a number of important doctrinal issues. However, these reformers who had recently separated from the Roman church still accepted the concept of churches being organizations with growing property and material assets and with hierarchies and of the church being administered by a
resident salaried priesthood. All of this reminiscent of the Old Testament. They also embraced the idea of accepting a denominational name and of a church funded and powered by a weekly monetary collection. These foundational concepts were totally foreign to both the teaching of the primitive church in Valdesi and to the New Testament church. At Chanforan, there was a turning away from that kind of Christian discipleship which had been nourished by a literal reading of the Bible. Interestingly, the main stream church, which grew out of this turning point, has labeled the stone cottage mentioned above as “The College of the Barbi”. I suppose they feel this title gives it authority, but I am equally gram that the ancient “Barbes” had no such thought. After 1532 the ministry gradually became settled and resident in one place and was no longer Itinerant. Instead of the condition that they “follow, Christ” in faith like the New Testament Apostles and be practical God fearing men, the prerequisite to become a minister was an intellectual education abroad at a protestant university or seminary.
Inside the stone cottage above Pra del Torno a sign says that there were many other similar places in Europe. This little group which was relatively unnoticed and unknown may have been more widely spread than we realise. Today, believers meeting in accordance with the New Testament teaching and example, are to be found in most parts of the world. They are free from the historic developments of ritual and organisations that have drawn so many away from, the New Testament pattern and their simplicity makes them adaptable to various conditions. They do not publish or even compile, statistics, nor do they depend upon publicity or appeals for help (monetary or otherwise) for carrying on their testimony, so that they are little known in the world, even in the religious world. This gives their work a quiet effectiveness, the value of which is seen in times of persecution. Their activities are reminiscent of the Book of Acts. Such fellowships exist among every kind or people and contain in themselves the power for carrying the Word of Life to others who will receive it.
I would like to point out that I am not making a claim to be specifically associated with these ancient people, because I simply don't know. Rather I am saying that all through the intervening centuries since New Testament times there have been believers who patterned their lives and fellowship after their first century brothers and sisters. When Christ as the heavenly Bridegroom returns He will unmistakably know His own and it is my sincere desire to be part of the true Bride of Christ,
Yours very sincerely,
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Post by Cherie on Apr 11, 2006 21:31:45 GMT -5
I just looked it up - and Raymond Reid IS definitely the author. I have a hard copy of the entire letter in the TTT files.
The following P.S. was omitted:
"P.S. Should you feel that you would like to meet such people, please feel free to give me a telephone call or drop me a line. Over the years I have had the wonderful experience of meeting several believing friends and itinerant ministers throughout Europe, North America and South America who in turn have contacts in most places in the world. Many of these individuals are enjoying the rich blessings of a simple Christian faith.
My FAX No. is: XXX
My Phone No. is XXX"
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Post by nathan7 on Apr 11, 2006 21:40:57 GMT -5
I just looked it up - and Raymond Reid IS definitely the author. I have a hard copy of the entire letter in the TTT files. The following P.S. was omitted: "P.S. Should you feel that you would like to meet such people, please feel free to give me a telephone call or drop me a line. Over the years I have had the wonderful experience of meeting several believing friends and itinerant ministers throughout Europe, North America and South America who in turn have contacts in most places in the world. Many of these individuals are enjoying the rich blessings of a simple Christian faith. My FAX No. is: XXX My Phone No. is XXX" Thanks, Cherie. |
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timber
Senior Member
Posts: 249
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Post by timber on Apr 12, 2006 0:28:47 GMT -5
If these simple Christians are a link to "the truth", etc, why do we not find some of the traditions of these groups in "the truth" today. Maybe this has been addressed before, so I apologize for bringing it up again. Nowhere, I believe, do workers speak like the Waldeneses, etc. I believe that all of these groups were splintered from Catholicism.
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