Is there really a debate on foundation?

[THE SOLID ROCK]

My foundation is THE SOLID ROCK.

I have no doubts about that.

[horsewoman]

"Word games: head games: evasions and cover-ups--do not fit into the definition of "truth".
And the overseers need to step up to the plate and be accountable because they were (and are) the ones who set the route to be followed in this matter. (And until they do that....I will withhold my "trust" and judge what is "right" and what is "wrong" --for myself) And in accordance only with what I find in the scriptures"

I have seen this in my own life. What is the most demoralizing and demeaning part of it? That I am not allowed to explain myself, change my mind(God forbid)...or be confused or take too long with an answer. I am worse than at my wit's end. I am not speaking of being UNWILLING to apologize to those I have harmed. No....that truly is not in my nature. My privacy was also invaded today. I already feel fear and shame. Why would I post here? I am begging my true friends to step up to the plate....really hear me...please. I still need you. If I am expected to tell the truth...people must stop with the word games and such...i dont understand that at all.

[Messenger or message]

I recall a sign saying "The MESSENGER with the message" and someone stated that it should read "The MESSAGE and the messenger" in inverse capitalization. As the bible shows, attacking the messenger was an easy way of dismissing the message. There could have been DOZENS of 2x2 style faiths over the centuries, and living in ages without internet, each not knowing the other. This was the case when Paul found a similar church in Ephesus who knew nothing about Paul's own group.
Interesting reading home.iprimus.com.au/pruephillip/

[worthless waste]

the above named website is of no more value than nate barker's site. they are both useless wastes of bandwidth.

[as i c it]

horsewoman,

Is everything okay now???

[horsewoman]

as i c it.... not quite.Kind of puzzled still.... and feel l ike i wanna sleep a month and cant.

[straight question]

To Worthless Waste. I wouldn't call anyone worthless waste, so don't put yourself down.
What part of that website don't you like? How the early church lived? How their ministry went out? How Jesus was unknown and despised? How they had no name? etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. Please be specific, because the further you are from that way of living, the further you are from the Truth.

[as i c it]

horsewoman,

I don't know what your situation is: but you mentioned something about an apology in your post...so I take it you'd like to apology to someone for something??? And you mentioned the need to gather your thoughts...
Perhaps you could write that individual an apology? That way you'd have time to gather your thoughts, and could say what you want to say. Or, if you'd rather speak to them face-to-face, simply start with: "I'm sorry". And allow the conversation to flow from there.

Whatever it is, it's obvious from your desire (to sleep a month) that you've been through something terribly upsetting to you...And your mind is busy Yakking (no doubt) terrible things...robbing you of the relief that sleep would bring.

Wish I could help you.
fwiw: One way or another, things (usually) do get better...with time...And I hope whoever is "in" this with you, is reasonable...and that things will work out for you.

[Simple]

horsewoman said:

as i c it.... not quite.Kind of puzzled still.... and feel l ike i wanna sleep a month and cant.

Excuse me for interjecting here, but Horsewoman, these issues of
Truth cannot be resolved in a logical manner.
It is a futile debate within ourselves.
Faith is what leads us to Truth.
Like driving a car and letting go of the steering wheel, so God can
teach you and lead you. It takes Faith to let go, it takes Faith, to not grab the steering wheel. See how long you can go?
You will find yourself in the footsteps of Jesus Christ Horsewoman.
Giving up control, to what? This is the issue, Love is like a seed, look after that seed in your heart and watch it grow, be amazed,
its the Gospel of Jesus Christ and its come to grow in you. Praise the Lord.

Yes you become a bystander in your own life, as the Spirit of Truth
guides you through the unknown to Spiritual Truth.
You learn to quit listening to your flesh mind and choose by Faith,
Hope, and Charity.
Life is much simpler that way, and you will enjoy being childlike before God. He is much more true than we can be, you will find yourself as gentle and harmless as a Lamb, because his Son who leads you is so gentle with you. You will have patience beyond comprehension, endurance, peace.....(All the Fruit)
Yes there are those that will cry bloody murder if you follow him, but when God calls you, why not accept his invitation?

What stands in your way?
Pride ?
Fear ?
The consequences?
If God told you to jump off a diving board into an empty pool, would you?
Your life with him begins the second your feet leave the diving board Horsewoman. It's all or nothing with God
I always feel sad for those who think they have something to lose. That is the illusion of the flesh and the devil.

FAITH is what makes things happen
Why not just Trust God and find out how to put him first?
Just like Jesus did.

[jungo]

I asked the question to myself, why did they cover up the beginnings? The answer is because when William Irvine went Kahoots so to speak, he took a lot of followers with him. Just like what happened with Edward Cooney. So Now there are three factions from when the truth started in 1987.

I think it was easier for the workers to suppress the information, threaten the members with excomunication if these problems were talked about and lets just go on with believing what we believe with out those who followed Irvine and Edward.

Then it eventualy became second hand to say this was from the beginning and was passed down from generation to generation. Which was told to me so confidently. Much different then : well there was this Swiss connection thing.

I myself do not believe in a Swiss connection. Because there is no evidence. I think if William and Edward never split or were not excomunicated there would be plenty of talk about the origins to this very day and how God has given his truth to men again. But it had to be hushed up because of the termoil that was going on.

And besides there are professing people who state here at this board that they have always known about the beginnings. That the part of the country they are from has been open and honest about the origins.

Now why would they be saying that?

[as i c it]

congratulations,

Thank you for your kind words. But, looking back (to almost a month ago, I find I was still fairly "hard" in my "judgment". (And.."judge" is what I did)
That posting was made almost a month ago, and I think I must have overdosed on all the negative information that I'd be injesting. And I was..grieving...over everyone: and everything: and angry over all the "victims"/souls caused grief because of it.

I'll never condone wrong being done to others: but, since the exes seem satisfied with what they've found: and the workers are satisfied with their actions: and my conscience is clear before God...I'll just move on...

[as i c it]

Jungo,
I'd sure like to know what parts of what country those ones (who say they've always known about the origins) are from...

Any posters on this board know of any areas where the origins were known by everyone: and discussed in an open and honest way???

[origins]

Where the orgin is known by everyone.
Yes, as i c it, I can tell you the orgins of Jesus were known to everyone in Israel. He came from Galilee, and therefore there had to have been a BIG COVER-UP because He said he was from Bethlehem. The Jews spent a lot of time outing this man and his claims of "coming down from heaven." They felt they didn't have to hear what He had to say anymore - understand?

[Origins]

The area of northern New Zealand is one where there was no fairly stories about an origin in biblical days.

[Peace]

No history after Malachia until the New Testament. But faithful believers were there waiting and ready.

[as i c it]

origins,

No. I don't understand.
But I'm willing to hear. Would you like to explain it further...using the actual situation being discussed on this thread....?

[jungo]

Hi as i c it,

Ben Coffee comes to mind right now. He says that he has always know about William Irvine, and has given me a strong impression that where he is from the origin is not a big deal and that everyone knows about it. Maybe hes a fictitious person but I always thought he was a real person? I can't think of anyone else. The new Zealand post up above I cant quite understand but is he saying this to? I think Ben Coffee is fron New Zealand ? If you want to you can have the honor of starting a thread asking what areas of the world the origin is spoken openly about. But I'll try and find siome of Ben coffes threads and I definately know he says it.

[one of them]

Geoff from Scotland also says that. And I think other Europeans.

I tend to agree with the person who said the formula is there in the Bible and we don't need to claim any origin or an unbroken connection to the first century. The God I worship is the One who created heaven and earth, and I find fellowship with others who also worship Him among the friends and workers.

[as i c it]

one of them,
I find that same fellowship: and I agree that we don't need to claim any origin or an unbroken connection to the first century....

[Bridge]

I read the book from Broadbent. The swiss connection was a bunch of Monks. Please do the research. Many are blind leading the blind because they haven't spent the time or to protect "truth" are not giving correct information. Please read the scholarly book by Doug and Helen Parker, "The Secret Sect", and ttt website. The information there is documented and is not false or rumor.