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Post by mirror on Aug 23, 2007 2:56:56 GMT -5
One of the MAIN teachimgs of the workers over the years has been that we make no human representations of God, Christ or any other personnality in the Bible.
However, GIT's avatar is a nice icon like the ones we find in all orthodox churches as well as in some catholic ones.
GIT by using this avatar can only convey one of the following two messages:
- either he accepts the establishment of idols of persons of the Bible, something that certainly is a new 2x2 doctrine,
- or he wants to ridicule idolatry, but in so doing publicly offenses the millions of christians who use and adore icons as a means to get nearer to God.
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_
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Post by _ on Aug 23, 2007 3:04:28 GMT -5
GiT addressed his avatar back in march... It is a Russian Orthodox icon of the Apostle Andrew. I wanted to have an avatar that was related to the Bible in some way, but found it hard to find a good (or indeed, appropriate) image. After a lot of searching, I eventually settled on this one, but I think I may change it eventually because I am not sure I am entirely comfortable with it.
I do admire the Apostle Andrew. He was a dilligent disciple who is shown in scripture bringing many people to Christ.
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Post by gloryintruth on Aug 23, 2007 3:22:48 GMT -5
However, GIT's avatar is a nice icon like the ones we find in all orthodox churches as well as in some catholic ones.
Out of curiosity, what would you choose as an avatar, mirror? What image would best summarise your personality. I'm asking because I think our avatar is rich psychological fruit. (At least to me!)
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Post by gloryintruth on Aug 23, 2007 3:28:57 GMT -5
GIT by using this avatar can only convey one of the following two messages:
I doubt your options will come close to expressing the message I wanted to convey, but I will be courteous and consider what you have to say.
- either he accepts the establishment of idols of persons of the Bible, something that certainly is a new 2x2 doctrine,
I do not accept this. However, because I am not saying my prayers to the Apostle Andrew at night whilst at the same time squinting at the little image on my screen, and because I don't compose hymns of veneration to the Apostle (I have written a collection of hymns always addressed to Christ), I think it is safe to say that my avatar is not an idol.
- or he wants to ridicule idolatry, but in so doing publicly offenses the millions of christians who use and adore icons as a means to get nearer to God.
Idolatry is perfectly ridiculous on its own accord. My help is not required to prove this point.
Might I politely inquire as to your position on Orthodox Church iconography? Above you say the practice is contrary to New Testament doctrine, but then you say afterwards that millions of Christians use icons as devices to get close to God.
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Post by mirror on Aug 23, 2007 4:11:42 GMT -5
[quote author=gloryintruth board=general thread=1187855816 post=1187857368Out of curiosity, what would you choose as an avatar, mirror? What image would best summarise your personality. I'm asking because I think our avatar is rich psychological fruit. (At least to me!)[/quote] A mirror of course !
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Post by ranman77007 on Aug 23, 2007 4:16:55 GMT -5
staying out of this one.
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Post by mirror on Aug 23, 2007 4:17:26 GMT -5
- or he wants to ridicule idolatry, but in so doing publicly offenses the millions of christians who use and adore icons as a means to get nearer to God.Idolatry is perfectly ridiculous on its own accord. My help is not required to prove this point. Might I politely inquire as to your position on Orthodox Church iconography? Above you say the practice is contrary to New Testament doctrine, but then you say afterwards that millions of Christians use icons as devices to get close to God. Not replying directly (as most of the times) you confirm that you want to ridicule idolatry, and that your objective is to offence millions of people. I have nothing to say on MY position on iconography. We are discussing YOUR avatar and the message it conveys. However, to make things clear I do not believe in idols either, BUT I respect the choices of millions of (misguided you said elsewhere) people and will not offence them by publicly ridiculing what they consider to be holy items.
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Post by ii on Aug 23, 2007 4:41:59 GMT -5
- or he wants to ridicule idolatry, but in so doing publicly offenses the millions of christians who use and adore icons as a means to get nearer to God.Idolatry is perfectly ridiculous on its own accord. My help is not required to prove this point. Might I politely inquire as to your position on Orthodox Church iconography? Above you say the practice is contrary to New Testament doctrine, but then you say afterwards that millions of Christians use icons as devices to get close to God. Not replying directly (as most of the times) you confirm that you want to ridicule idolatry, and that your objective is to offence millions of people. I have nothing to say on MY position on iconography. We are discussing YOUR avatar and the message it conveys. However, to make things clear I do not believe in idols either, BUT I respect the choices of millions of (misguided you said elsewhere) people and will not offence them by publicly ridiculing what they consider to be holy items. hey man just get back to reality and live with the things you like and have the grace to let others do the same
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Post by for 2x2s on Aug 23, 2007 7:51:14 GMT -5
For 2x2s, their church is their idol.
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Post by gloryintruth on Aug 23, 2007 8:24:38 GMT -5
Not replying directly (as most of the times) you confirm that you want to ridicule idolatry, and that your objective is to offence millions of people.
Did you ask me some questions to which I was supposed to reply? I thought you just made omniscient statements, in which you listed two messages I was supposed to be conveying by my selection of avatar. My apologies.
I purposely set out to "offend millions of people" who don't read the TMB (good for them) by chosing an icon of an Apostle I admire. So that's what my motives are!
I have nothing to say on MY position on iconography.
Does this mean you can say untrue things about other people's beliefs, and make up false stories about their motives, but when someone takes the time to politely question you on your views, you're allowed to clam up?
We are discussing YOUR avatar and the message it conveys.
It's a picture of Andrew. And you are discussing my motives for using it as my avatar, not the "message it conveys". Let's not get confused on that point, O.K?
However, to make things clear I do not believe in idols either, BUT I respect the choices of millions of (misguided you said elsewhere) people and will not offence them by publicly ridiculing what they consider to be holy items.
I admit to getting angry at this statement. Explain to me again how I am publically ridiculing and offending "millions of people"?
Clearly you're a "cake-eater". You want your cake and you want to eat it too. Unfortunately, you have written more in this thread that would be offensive to the groups you claim I am ridiculing, that I ever have in relation to icons.
You obviously regard icons (or ikons) as idols (which is offensive to Greek Orthodox and Roman Catholic adherents, by the way), and you have made the point that icons are not consistent with New Testament teaching (again, offensive to reek Orthodox and Roman Catholic adherents, who hold that the practice of iconography is perfectly scriptural).
But having written this, you say that you "respect their choices". You've insulted a major aspect of their faith, and you've just said they're all idolators, but you "respect their choices"!
Perhaps you ought to get yourself some understanding of the religions you defend, before you get too involved in a shallow protest on behalf of those "millions" who are not "offended", because they don't troll the TMB. While you're at it, make a mental note to actually get a position on iconography - strange though that concept might be - before making an issue of it with someone else.
It's called "background research". As in, "go and do it".
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Post by N9 to GIT on Aug 23, 2007 8:35:30 GMT -5
From my experience with Mirrior on TMB... he is a loser, GIT.
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Post by Avatar on Aug 23, 2007 10:00:34 GMT -5
An avatar is NOT an idol You are hardly holding your avatar in higher regard then Jesus and God It is just an image which says something about you
From GIT avatar I would suffice to say that he is a holy man... Though it reminds me of something catholic....
It is not an idol
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Post by mirror on Aug 23, 2007 10:24:11 GMT -5
A lot of bla bla GIT but no real answer. The question from the beginning is how come a hardline 2x2 like you (i.e. somebody who despises idols and idolaters) uses as an avatar an icon who many million would consider holy. You may once more go on and on and on with your twisted logic but one thing is certain - either you promote idolatry - which you refuse doing - or you ridicule the beliefs of millions of believers, which is inconsistent with a loving and compassionate Christian as one should be according to what YOU pretend believing. And here we do not have an issue of «law and order» as you pretended for the Alberta ex-communions.
Based on the above, and numerous of your othet interventions on this board I had the opportunity to read and analyse I would rather think of you as an autocratic (I would be tempted to say dictatorial type) which has nothing to do with the personality of the apostle Andrew as we understand it from the existing sources. And this constitutes one more, the ultimate I would say insult, your use of the apostle Andrew avatar conveys.
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timber
Senior Member
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Post by timber on Aug 23, 2007 10:45:58 GMT -5
Oh please. This is not an idol. Do you have pictures of your family around your house? Would you consider these pictures to be idols? Perhaps GIT esteems Andrew highly and when he looks at his picture is reminded of those who serve God.
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Post by Big Church on Aug 23, 2007 10:54:53 GMT -5
Oh please. This is not an idol. Do you have pictures of your family around your house? Would you consider these pictures to be idols? Perhaps GIT esteems Andrew highly and when he looks at his picture is reminded of those who serve God. So then I guess the argument for those pictures in the BIG Worldly churches which have these very same pictures and others like them are not wrong then after all?
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timber
Senior Member
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Post by timber on Aug 23, 2007 11:26:36 GMT -5
Yes. I think these pictures are only intended to be reminders to people of those who lived holy lives, or in the case of Christ, because we are visual people, it is one more way to put him in front of us so to speak.
Think way back when most people couldn't read. These images perhaps helped to bring across a message to them..
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Aug 23, 2007 13:09:37 GMT -5
my avatar summarizes my personality. Except for the finger/nose one. M.
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Aug 23, 2007 14:02:01 GMT -5
Hmmmmm.... question..... my avatar is my picture... does that mean im worshipping myself? Could think of worse things to worship i suppose!
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Post by diet coke on Aug 23, 2007 14:18:45 GMT -5
my avatar summarizes my personality. mine does too.
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Post by Scott Ross on Aug 23, 2007 14:32:49 GMT -5
Oh dc you silly boy you...... I think your personality shines through in spite of yourself. Scott
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Aug 23, 2007 14:33:40 GMT -5
my avatar summarizes my personality. mine does too. That has to be because you're "diet coke" not diet pepsi!!!! Pepsi rocks! ;D ;D
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Post by mirror on Aug 23, 2007 15:29:15 GMT -5
A nice avatar for fundamentalists of all kinds !
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Post by freddy2 on Aug 23, 2007 17:02:07 GMT -5
GIT's idol is the 2x2 church/ministry.
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Post by gloryintruth on Aug 23, 2007 18:02:26 GMT -5
A lot of bla bla GIT but no real answer.
Or perhaps not the answer you were seeking.
The question from the beginning is how come a hardline 2x2 like you (i.e. somebody who despises idols and idolaters)
Please don't assume too much. I may despise idols and the concept of idolatry - for behind every idol is a devil, said the Apostle Paul - but I do not despise idolators, who are bound in captivity to the carnal mind and its reasoning.
uses as an avatar an icon who many million would consider holy.
Your dichtomy only works if an icon is an idol. This comes back to the old Protestant argument that a statue is a statue, until you bow down to it - then it becomes an idol. Likewise, a picture is a picture (an icon is an icon) until one chooses to venerate and worship it.
You are asking me why I have chosen an icon for my avatar despite my position on idolatry, and I have replied previously - as I will do so again - that I find Andrew an inspirational man. That's it. There's no dark motives; no hidden agenda. The honest, plain and open truth is that I liked the picture, so I chose it.
You may once more go on and on and on with your twisted logic
I always find it remarkable that those who speak most frequently of "twisted logic" never demonstrate any logic themselves.
but one thing is certain - either you promote idolatry - which you refuse doing - or you ridicule the beliefs of millions of believers, which is inconsistent with a loving and compassionate Christian as one should be according to what YOU pretend believing.
I pretend to believe that Christians should be compassionate and loving? So that's what I'm up to! Thanks for the update.
And here we do not have an issue of «law and order» as you pretended for the Alberta ex-communions.
I don't understand the statement. Sorry.
Based on the above, and numerous of your othet interventions on this board I had the opportunity to read and analyse I would rather think of you as an autocratic (I would be tempted to say dictatorial type) which has nothing to do with the personality of the apostle Andrew as we understand it from the existing sources. And this constitutes one more, the ultimate I would say insult, your use of the apostle Andrew avatar conveys.
You are, of course, free to form any opinions you like about me.
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Post by free translation on Aug 23, 2007 20:54:40 GMT -5
The following translation is provided free of service:
What GIT just said boils down to the following:
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
...only more so.
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Post by gloryintruth on Aug 23, 2007 23:12:17 GMT -5
What GIT just said boils down to the following: blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
Positive proof that some exes have reverted to childhood.
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Aug 23, 2007 23:46:49 GMT -5
and has WAY more time on his/her hands than I do!!! M. and awwww, diet coke...you're wrong on that one! PS...COKE RAWKS!!!! heheh
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Post by and on Aug 24, 2007 8:16:48 GMT -5
Positive proof that some exes have reverted to childhood. ...and a child shall lead them.
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