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Post by toparrow on Jul 12, 2024 7:39:02 GMT -5
Crime next Door Saints and Servants
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Post by CherieKropp on Jul 12, 2024 15:48:16 GMT -5
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Post by toparrow on Jul 18, 2024 10:50:38 GMT -5
I have listened to all episodes of podcast . Brotherhood of evil
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Post by themaninthemirror on Jul 19, 2024 4:58:50 GMT -5
I have listened to all episodes of podcast . Brotherhood of evil Some are, some aren't.
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Post by toparrow on Jul 20, 2024 10:27:33 GMT -5
Yes I probably came over to strong and I apologise. This cover up over the years has made me angry.
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Post by Pragmatic on Jul 20, 2024 15:49:56 GMT -5
There are some very nice an inoffensive workers, who are probably struggling with the knowledge of what has been happening. Some may have been unaware of the beginnings, the Living Witness Doctrine's formation, and the evil goings on and coverups. We are seeing here some struggling and suffering mental health issues, taking time out etc. They don't know what to do, or who to turn to, possibly because they're afraid of the answers.
I feel so sorry for them. They did not choose to be part of system that has acted like this. They thought they were answering God's call.
Those that have participated in CSA, SA, and the enabling of it by moving perpetrators, ignoring victims pleas, allowing perpetrators to continue preying on the innocent; deserve everything that is coming to them.
Every day, another name comes to light. With over 900 validated reports so far, 40% of them workers, my blood boils.
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Post by bfvernon on Jul 20, 2024 18:18:12 GMT -5
Does anyone know how Darryl Doland’s Workers Meeting ended up on YouTube? It’s hardly the kind of thing that the Workers would want in the public domain! But, then again, who knows …..?
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Post by Pragmatic on Jul 20, 2024 20:43:23 GMT -5
I have heard unverified talk of it being recorded by a sister worker who was unhappy with how she though the meeting would go, and recorded it. It was given to one of the friends who distributed, and someone uploaded it.
Good on her, and it has exposed Doland and his henchmen for what they are.
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Post by bfvernon on Jul 20, 2024 21:12:16 GMT -5
It is very disconcerting to listen to. They are obviously not interested in the victims, their disconnect from reality is frightening. My assessment would be that the only motive they have is to maintain their own positions of privilege and power, they don’t care how that is achieved. All Darryl’s talk about using scripture to find a way forward was really weaponising scripture for their own ends. They have no respect for people outside of their bubble, whether that’s exes, professionals, the law, the FBI. In their eyes, they are the only people with credibility. There’s absolutely no point in anyone talking to them. Even prison sentences won’t alter their viewpoint.
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Post by Pragmatic on Jul 20, 2024 22:24:29 GMT -5
I believe your assessment is bang on.
Having listened to all the episodes now, I am less uncomfortable with the term lying being used in the same context as overseer/workers.
Recently and overseer said that the FBI had cleared the 2X2 church of any allegations. The FBI do not clear such things. They investigate and if they find enough evidence to bring about a prosecution, they will hand it to the DOJ who will get clearance from the AG to bring about a prosecution if all parties deem it is warranted. So clearly someone lied. And at the same time this was being repeated, the FBI was actually conducting more interviews.
In Episode 6, a victim was told by the overseer that certain details of her case had been discussed between him and the Irish Police. The victim went to that particular office, and he said that no such things were discussed. This overseer has history when it comes to lying.
Here in Australasia we had the overseers telling the Friends that admission to the Redress scheme was a foregone conclusion, when they knew full well that they did not meet the criteria for admission.
Lie after lie after lie......what happened to the good and HONEST ground?
And they have the temerity to preach against the hireling, by their interpretation, and Pastor unlike a 2X2 worker. Some of these are truly the wolves in sheep's clothing.
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Post by bfvernon on Jul 21, 2024 5:06:31 GMT -5
Yes, their “interpretation “ of the actions of the FBI is that of pathological liars/ spin doctors.
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Post by help on Jul 21, 2024 13:32:24 GMT -5
The danger is, many people twist the Scriptures, seeking to make it fit some opinion of their own, hoping thereby to give authority to their peculiar prejudices. Such distortion of Scripture has generated a plethora of cults and heresies, past and present.
I admire bfvernon who made the effort to study Theology in the proper way. This is what has been lacking in the 2x2 Church and it has contributed to their demise.
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Post by bfvernon on Jul 21, 2024 17:35:16 GMT -5
Thank you, I appreciate your wisdom. It has been a long road out of the 2x2s. When I was first shunned (excommunicated) I did not know how to find a way forward. I realise now that I walked in the valley of death for most of my life, including the 40 years in the 2x2s. Now, I have a very peaceful and happy life because I have a solid foundation in Christ.
My birth family has been shattered by CSA from within that group, and it’s very hard to watch them live without Christ- they have no desire to seek help from Christianity because of their experiences in the 2x2s. I take comfort in the thought that God knows and understands.
I’ve had to learn a lot about psychology too, which has opened my eyes to the way they weaponise scripture, and groom people for their own evil purposes.
There were none of these forums when I left, it was a lonely road.
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Post by Pragmatic on Jul 21, 2024 18:28:17 GMT -5
The danger is, many people twist the Scriptures, seeking to make it fit some opinion of their own, hoping thereby to give authority to their peculiar prejudices. Such distortion of Scripture has generated a plethora of cults and heresies, past and present. I admire bfvernon who made the effort to study Theology in the proper way. This is what has been lacking in the 2x2 Church and it has contributed to their demise. I think, even if you look at Home Group Meeting testimonies, regardless of whether it is Sunday morning, or subject meetings you will find that many people:
1) Already know what they believe, or have been conditioned to believe. May be thankful for a worker visit, or what they heard in a mission.
2) Will find a verse, or verses, or a string of linked verses to endorse (1)
3) Will paraphrase (2)
4) Acknowledge that they have 'fallen short' in certain aspects, often without naming them
5) Want to do better in coming days
In other words, testimony is used to reinforce current thinking and the status quo, not explore fresh thinking or new perspectives. Very few will examine the churches in Revelations over a three week period, or the chapters in Romans on Grace.
You are right in your observation of Scripture being distorted., and what can result. Matt 10 is but one example.
bfvernon will enjoy the enlightenment that came with studying Theology. Of course the 2X church discourages people having this sort of knowledge and insight, because they can't have the wool pulled over their eyes by a misguided Ministry.
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Post by bfvernon on Jul 21, 2024 19:48:24 GMT -5
Pragmatic, your analysis of the fellowship text structure show that it too is part of the systemic approach to deceiving people. It doesn’t require exegesis, nor critical thinking, but the participants believe that they have the skills they need because they can parrot within an exclusive genre.
My grandmother didn’t profess until I was 13. She had never been to a fellowship meeting (she had been to many Gospel meetings). The first Sunday that she came to our fellowship meeting, during prayer she said the Lords Prayer. During testimonies she read Psalm 23. The next week my grandfather had educated her on the exclusive genre that was required for acceptable participation. It intrigued me for years, but only recently have I understood the forces at play and have the vocabulary to explain it.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 21, 2024 20:11:44 GMT -5
I believe your assessment is bang on. Having listened to all the episodes now, I am less uncomfortable with the term lying being used in the same context as overseer/workers. Recently and overseer said that the FBI had cleared the 2X2 church of any allegations. The FBI do not clear such things. They investigate and if they find enough evidence to bring about a prosecution, they will hand it to the DOJ who will get clearance from the AG to bring about a prosecution if all parties deem it is warranted. So clearly someone lied. And at the same time this was being repeated, the FBI was actually conducting more interviews. In Episode 6, a victim was told by the overseer that certain details of her case had been discussed between him and the Irish Police. The victim went to that particular office, and he said that no such things were discussed. This overseer has history when it comes to lying. Here in Australasia we had the overseers telling the Friends that admission to the Redress scheme was a foregone conclusion, when they knew full well that they did not meet the criteria for admission. Lie after lie after lie......what happened to the good and HONEST ground? And they have the temerity to preach against the hireling, by their interpretation, and Pastor unlike a 2X2 worker. Some of these are truly the wolves in sheep's clothing.
I was also reluctant to use the term "lie" about a worker. But it didn't take too many answers from a lot of people to recognize that I was hearing intentional lies. I even discovered workers lying to and about each other, and some of the friends too. That's why I decided I'd never have a meeting again with workers without an attorney with me.
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Post by bfvernon on Jul 21, 2024 20:25:19 GMT -5
That is hilarious! (And totally true!)
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Post by themaninthemirror on Jul 24, 2024 4:12:05 GMT -5
Yes I probably came over to strong and I apologise. This cover up over the years has made me angry. I think there is a broader more balanced view that needs to be taken on this - if we are truly interested in protecting children.
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Post by themaninthemirror on Jul 24, 2024 5:15:51 GMT -5
There are some very nice an inoffensive workers, who are probably struggling with the knowledge of what has been happening. Some may have been unaware of the beginnings, the Living Witness Doctrine's formation, and the evil goings on and coverups. We are seeing here some struggling and suffering mental health issues, taking time out etc. They don't know what to do, or who to turn to, possibly because they're afraid of the answers. I feel so sorry for them. They did not choose to be part of system that has acted like this. They thought they were answering God's call. Those that have participated in CSA, SA, and the enabling of it by moving perpetrators, ignoring victims pleas, allowing perpetrators to continue preying on the innocent; deserve everything that is coming to them. Every day, another name comes to light. With over 900 validated reports so far, 40% of them workers, my blood boils. I recently heard from something Cherie said, that 10% of workers stay in the work. This means the "40% of them workers" isn't a reflection of reality. Going by the statistics you just mentioned - most of the abusers in the fellowship aren't workers. Why isn't your blood boiling at the facts below? Here are some facts for you: - 1 in 10 young people exposed to online abuse (in the US there are 25.8million children - thats 2.5m) 2.5 MILLION. - 1 in 3 women in the USA have experienced rape (in the USA there are 168.6million women - thats 55.4m) 55.4 MILLION. - 20% of abusers are also children themselves. The scale is HUGE. Now, whilst folks are busy trying to frame this as "the workers and friends are evil" there are children at risk, right now. There is much to be done at a societal level on this, whether it is cultures where children get married or cultures where children are sexualised from a young age. It alarms me that a boy of 16 can pressure his 14 year old gf into sex and it is seen as "part of growing up" yet if she was pressured by her 18 year old bf to do the exact same thing, its seen as a crime. Think about it - the effect on her is the same, doesn't matter who it is - and this is happening all around us - every, single day. I am not excusing anything by the way, but I do have an issue with people who were 50 years in the fellowship, said nothing, then leave and complain from the sidelines having done nothing whilst it happened under their nose - now in 2024 they expect us to say they are "brave" for speaking out. Brave was speaking out in 1994.
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plp
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by plp on Jul 24, 2024 7:24:30 GMT -5
Yes I probably came over to strong and I apologise. This cover up over the years has made me angry. I think there is a broader more balanced view that needs to be taken on this - if we are truly interested in protecting children. Post Dean Bruer there has been some impulsive decisions (and clangers) made in various parts of the world on how csa should be handled in the meetings. Because of this I expect there will be a good deal of revisiting of how safeguarding works in practice until, after a number of years, it settles down to something that the church feels works acceptably and that provides appropriate safeguarding of children. People like Daryl Dolland (or others) having second thoughts on various aspects of their policies is only to be expected in my opinion. I'd be more concerned if they introduced a hastily formed policy and didn't reconsider it later after witnessing what works well and what doesn't in practice. It won't surprise me if the final settling place on safeguarding policies doesn't end too far off the approaches taken by mainstream denominations that have been in place for some years now. In my view, the church could have saved a lot of time and frustration within the fellowship (in some parts of the world anyway), if they'd referred to these before settling on their own starting csa policies.
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plp
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by plp on Jul 24, 2024 7:27:57 GMT -5
I have heard unverified talk of it being recorded by a sister worker who was unhappy with how she though the meeting would go, and recorded it. It was given to one of the friends who distributed, and someone uploaded it. Good on her, and it has exposed Doland and his henchmen for what they are. You sound unhappy with Darryl. What was the single thing you were most unhappy about in what he spoke in the meeting?
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Post by Pragmatic on Jul 24, 2024 15:10:24 GMT -5
Probably his seeking to influence what happens in NZ through Alan Mitchell who seems to be self anointing an Overseer title on himself for all of Australasia.
Pleas from other workers in the meeting were just ignored.
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Post by snow on Jul 26, 2024 15:45:33 GMT -5
There are some very nice an inoffensive workers, who are probably struggling with the knowledge of what has been happening. Some may have been unaware of the beginnings, the Living Witness Doctrine's formation, and the evil goings on and coverups. We are seeing here some struggling and suffering mental health issues, taking time out etc. They don't know what to do, or who to turn to, possibly because they're afraid of the answers. I feel so sorry for them. They did not choose to be part of system that has acted like this. They thought they were answering God's call. Those that have participated in CSA, SA, and the enabling of it by moving perpetrators, ignoring victims pleas, allowing perpetrators to continue preying on the innocent; deserve everything that is coming to them. Every day, another name comes to light. With over 900 validated reports so far, 40% of them workers, my blood boils. What I don't understand now in seeing the 'new' worker lists is how any of them are still offering for the work. There have been several new names here in Alberta
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Post by snow on Jul 26, 2024 15:56:05 GMT -5
What really bothers me is that those workers with allegations against them (multiple not just one) are still allowed to speak at convention. Children are actually more at risk now I think because the people that still are attending convention are the group that have literally turned a blind eye to all the allegations and won't be keeping a good eye on their kids when they are around those workers. Western Canada conventions have several workers with multiple allegations against them and they are still workers, still allowed on convention grounds and still speaking from the platform. I was happy to see that the owners of the Duncan convention actually sent letters out to the workers scheduled to attend telling them if they had any allegations against them they weren't welcome. I heard that they initially wanted the workers to sign that they had no allegations but several refused so the letter was just distributed. I'm not surprised because who would admit they were a predator anyway. The good thing is that the list of workers with allegations is constantly being updated as they become known and some conventions have actually escorted those persons off the grounds. That's progress but so little so late.
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Post by themaninthemirror on Aug 1, 2024 13:56:42 GMT -5
What really bothers me is that those workers with allegations against them (multiple not just one) are still allowed to speak at convention. Children are actually more at risk now I think because the people that still are attending convention are the group that have literally turned a blind eye to all the allegations and won't be keeping a good eye on their kids when they are around those workers. Western Canada conventions have several workers with multiple allegations against them and they are still workers, still allowed on convention grounds and still speaking from the platform. I was happy to see that the owners of the Duncan convention actually sent letters out to the workers scheduled to attend telling them if they had any allegations against them they weren't welcome. I heard that they initially wanted the workers to sign that they had no allegations but several refused so the letter was just distributed. I'm not surprised because who would admit they were a predator anyway. The good thing is that the list of workers with allegations is constantly being updated as they become known and some conventions have actually escorted those persons off the grounds. That's progress but so little so late. I don’t think the ex community helps this either - many exes where part of the group throughout all of this, they ran away in the last 1.5 years and started throwing bricks at the culture they maintained and the abuse they allowed - now they blame “the workers” when they were also cowards - easy now to stand up when everyone else has - shame on them!
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Post by help on Aug 1, 2024 15:59:00 GMT -5
I think you will find that it was due to the good work of some ex's that the true situation was revealed. Leaving it to the 2x2's it would still be shrouded in secrecy as per their modus operandi.
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 1, 2024 18:00:59 GMT -5
I think you will find that it was due to the good work of some ex's that the true situation was revealed. Leaving it to the 2x2's it would still be shrouded in secrecy as per their modus operandi. Exactly. What can you expect from people who have so rudely discovered that they had been so violently misled and betrayed. Karma is just a b1tch.
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 1, 2024 18:03:59 GMT -5
What really bothers me is that those workers with allegations against them (multiple not just one) are still allowed to speak at convention. Children are actually more at risk now I think because the people that still are attending convention are the group that have literally turned a blind eye to all the allegations and won't be keeping a good eye on their kids when they are around those workers. Western Canada conventions have several workers with multiple allegations against them and they are still workers, still allowed on convention grounds and still speaking from the platform. I was happy to see that the owners of the Duncan convention actually sent letters out to the workers scheduled to attend telling them if they had any allegations against them they weren't welcome. I heard that they initially wanted the workers to sign that they had no allegations but several refused so the letter was just distributed. I'm not surprised because who would admit they were a predator anyway. The good thing is that the list of workers with allegations is constantly being updated as they become known and some conventions have actually escorted those persons off the grounds. That's progress but so little so late. I don’t think the ex community helps this either - many exes where part of the group throughout all of this, they ran away in the last 1.5 years and started throwing bricks at the culture they maintained and the abuse they allowed - now they blame “the workers” when they were also cowards - easy now to stand up when everyone else has - shame on them! Shame. Yes -- I was ashamed that I had been misled for so long. What do I owe them now for the betrayal?
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