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Post by Pragmatic on Jun 24, 2024 17:10:24 GMT -5
Here is the Ministry's reponse to the situation in India following two visits by Alan Mitchell and Wayne Dean, and on their second visit accompanied by two senior US/Canadian workers. Six international airfares. One of the alleged perpetrators was named by a woman in the US as being the one who touched her inappropriately. He was sent back.
The arrogance personified in the last paragraph says it all.
Clarification re removal of Indian worker
Indian worker removed from Olympia, WA convention
Letter from Church Leadership in India
MESSAGE TO THE STAFF
As you know, in March, 2024 a group of overseers from various places met together with the local staff in India to help the staff deal specifically with allegations that have been made against David Jeyaraj and Jeeva Panchavarnam as well as other issues of concern in the Church. On March 31 a decision was made that David Jeyaraj and Jeeva Panchavarnam would be asked to step down from their places in the work while an investigation into the allegations against them was made.
On April 2, 2024, Four of the overseers along with Prabhakar met with a trusted legal advisor that a respected elder of the Church introduced them to. They asked for his advice as to how best to carry out this investigation. After carefully considering the nature of the allegations that we are dealing with, and the lack of detail provided in the allegations he strongly advised against hiring a third party agency to look into these allegations. His hesitance to suggest engaging in a third party agency, was based on the fact that there is corruption that exists in this country and that ‘pay-offs’, in the end would determine the outcome. He has suggested that it is the proper procedure that those who are responsible for guiding the work in our fellowship, look into and deal with these cases. He further helped us sift through the material we have and has given us his opinion on what action, if any, should be taken in each case. We feel that this is the right and scriptural way to handle this based on 1 Corinthians 6:1 to 7, where Paul strongly recommends that matters like these be settled within the fellowship rather than taking them to be settled by unbelievers in the world, but only when no criminal activity has been found to have taken place. Otherwise it will be taken to the relevant authorities.
In following the recommendations given us by the legal advisor, we have undertaken to look carefully into the allegations that have been made against David and Jeeva. It has became clear that there is not sufficient, verifiable proof of the allegations made against them to justify them being asked to leave the work. In our investigation we have had to sift the truth out of many untruths so of course we were left with some questions still. Unfortunately, as we sought to find the truth in these matters, we did find that an anonymous person, or group of people, whose motives are very questionable, appear to be responsible for making the majority of these allegations.
We appreciate David and Jeeva’s cooperation in agreeing to quietly step down from being active in the work while this investigation was in progress. Now that the investigation has been concluded, we find no reason why they should not continue to fill an active place in the work on this staff.
It has saddened us all to think we should need the help of a legal advisers when we believe that we are the children of the Living God and we’re following His Son Jesus as our Saviour in all things that he lived and taught.
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Post by Pragmatic on Jun 24, 2024 17:13:27 GMT -5
Ross has given permission for this to be shared:
The Letter from Church Leadership in India has been rightly globally criticised. Here are just a few things that are terribly wrong with it: - Any decent church and church minister who received a serious complaint from a victim(s) would immediately talk to the civil authorities and organise an independent investigation from a reputable organisation with expertise in child sexual abuse matters
This did not occur
- An independent investigation would be at arms-length from the church and church ministers to protect both the victim(s) and deal justly with the complaints lodged about the alleged perpetrator(s)
This did not occur
- No decent church or church minister would try and influence the outcome of the investigation
This did not occur
- No decent church or church minister would formally communicate that information from victims contained many untruths in an attempt to discredit the victims. It just wouldn’t occur and has been done in this situation to protect alleged offenders. Any decent church would not comment on the evidence presented
This did not occur
- Any decent church or church minister, when dealing with allegations of child sexual abuse, would never reference 1 Cor 6: 1-7. Any decent church knows that this passage is dealing with mere grievances or civil disputes. Any decent church would reference Romans 13:4-5.
This did not occur
- Any decent church or church minister would not use loaded language in favour of its ministers like “we appreciate David and Jeeva’s cooperation in agreeing to quietly step down from being active in the work…”. The language used infers that the workers have consistently done the right thing. Any decent church would simply refer to the outcomes of the independent investigating organisation
This did not occur
- Any decent church or church minister would not be sad that there are times when the help of civil legal authorities is required. They would know from Romans 13:4-5 that it is necessary to submit to civil authorities who have been placed by God as His servants in positions of authority
- This did not occur
The letter is extraordinarily poor, designed to support their own staff and marginalise those who make complaints. We know that for decades in the 2x2 church that perpetrators have been protected whilst victims have been shunned.
We also know that nothing would have changed in the past few years (and particularly in the last year) apart from pressure from people who care and show genuine love, grace and mercy to those who have been abused and who hold offenders to account.
We know that it is now likely that Overseers will walk back policies and guidelines that have been developed in favour of continuing to protect perpetrators. Perpetrators are inside. They are needy and desire acceptance so they highly support 2x2 leadership and obey their commands. They have been accepted and trusted by 2x2 leadership for decades.
Victims are shunned by the 2x2 church leadership and are characterised as obscure (using Darryl Doland’s recent words). They apparently make up stories and cause trouble and want money – that’s the way many of the workers and some of the friends characterise them.
Decent churches and decent church ministers don’t do this. They follow God’s Word – they seek to flee from sexual immorality (1 Cor 6: 9-20 – ironically verses in the same chapter as the earlier verses oft quoted by workers), they bear one another’s burdens (Gal 6:2), they give justice to the weak and maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute (Psalm 82:3). Why would anyone choose a church that embraces and protects evil?
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Post by chuck on Jun 24, 2024 17:21:24 GMT -5
They're just liars and need to go to jail.
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Post by Pragmatic on Jun 24, 2024 17:28:19 GMT -5
It is also possible that the Australian workers are in breach of the Commonwealth and Extra Territorial laws in regard to child exploitation and abuse in a foreign nation with Australian citizens involved.
I understand that both the FBI and AFP have the information on this.
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Post by tulip2 on Jun 24, 2024 18:06:32 GMT -5
Here is the Ministry's response to the situation in India following two visits by Alan Mitchell and Wayne Dean, and on their second visit ... Here in Australia, those guys have reputations... send them on a mission like this, no surprises what you get. Sad that's the calibre of 'oversight' in Australia. So sexual abuse of children (CSA) is not "criminal activity" in India? If it were, any and all allegations of CSA should be turned over to the police to properly investigate, not hick investigators who have climbed the rungs in a church organisation. Leaving the "investigation" to the investigative abilities of Mitchell & Dean, really amazingly flabbergasting! What saddens those of us still trying to stay in communion with those true believers in this church, is the incredibly poor examples these workers are of the high standards they purport to uphold. If they truly believed in upholding the standard of Jesus, and in their own words truly believed "Paul strongly recommends that matters like these be settled within the fellowship rather than taking them to be settled by unbelievers in the world, but only when no criminal activity has been found to have taken place", then there are such matters among their worker staff that should have been settled by them years ago. Starting with several known offending workers on staff in the eastern states of Australia. They know too well who they are!
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India
Jun 24, 2024 20:17:28 GMT -5
via mobile
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Post by chuck on Jun 24, 2024 20:17:28 GMT -5
Here is the Ministry's response to the situation in India following two visits by Alan Mitchell and Wayne Dean, and on their second visit ... Here in Australia, those guys have reputations... send them on a mission like this, no surprises what you get. Sad that's the calibre of 'oversight' in Australia. "We feel that this is the right and scriptural way to handle this based on 1 Corinthians 6:1 to 7, where Paul strongly recommends that matters like these be settled within the fellowship rather than taking them to be settled by unbelievers in the world, but only when no criminal activity has been found to have taken place. Otherwise it will be taken to the relevant authorities." So sexual abuse of children (CSA) is not "criminal activity" in India? If it were, any and all allegations of CSA should be turned over to the police to properly investigate, not hick investigators who have climbed the rungs in a church organisation. Leaving the "investigation" to the investigative abilities of Mitchell & Dean, really amazingly flabbergasting! "It has saddened us all to think we should need the help of legal advisers when we believe that we are the children of the Living God and we’re following His Son Jesus as our Saviour in all things that he lived and taught." What saddens those of us still trying to stay in communion with those true believers in this church, is the incredibly poor examples these workers are of the high standards they purport to uphold. If they truly believed in upholding the standard of Jesus, and in their own words truly believed "Paul strongly recommends that matters like these be settled within the fellowship rather than taking them to be settled by unbelievers in the world, but only when no criminal activity has been found to have taken place", then there are such matters among their worker staff that should have been settled by them years ago. Starting with several known offending workers on staff in the eastern states of Australia. They know too well who they are! Isn't it funny how the "unbelievers of the world" are not the criminals in this picture........... Their minds have been completely screwed over by religion.
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Post by Pragmatic on Jun 24, 2024 20:40:30 GMT -5
Gee, I hate the way TMB says Pragmatic says, when I was re-posting ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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Post by fixit on Jun 24, 2024 23:20:36 GMT -5
Matthew 7 comes to mind...
15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
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India
Jun 24, 2024 23:57:30 GMT -5
Post by tulip2 on Jun 24, 2024 23:57:30 GMT -5
Gee, I hate the way TMB says Pragmatic says, when I was re-posting ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) Good pickup. Fixed.
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Post by fixit on Jun 25, 2024 5:54:44 GMT -5
What saddens those of us still trying to stay in communion with those true believers in this church, is the incredibly poor examples these workers are of the high standards they purport to uphold. If they truly believed in upholding the standard of Jesus, and in their own words truly believed "Paul strongly recommends that matters like these be settled within the fellowship rather than taking them to be settled by unbelievers in the world, but only when no criminal activity has been found to have taken place", then there are such matters among their worker staff that should have been settled by them years ago. Starting with several known offending workers on staff in the eastern states of Australia. They know too well who they are! The sad reality is that secular authorities have proven to be wiser, and arguably more Jesus-like, than many workers and friends with respect to CSA and SA.
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peggysullivan
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India
Jun 26, 2024 15:03:46 GMT -5
via mobile
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Post by peggysullivan on Jun 26, 2024 15:03:46 GMT -5
Here is the Ministry's response to the situation in India following two visits by Alan Mitchell and Wayne Dean, and on their second visit ... Here in Australia, those guys have reputations... send them on a mission like this, no surprises what you get. Sad that's the calibre of 'oversight' in Australia. So sexual abuse of children (CSA) is not "criminal activity" in India? If it were, any and all allegations of CSA should be turned over to the police to properly investigate, not hick investigators who have climbed the rungs in a church organisation. Leaving the "investigation" to the investigative abilities of Mitchell & Dean, really amazingly flabbergasting! What saddens those of us still trying to stay in communion with those true believers in this church, is the incredibly poor examples these workers are of the high standards they purport to uphold. If they truly believed in upholding the standard of Jesus, and in their own words truly believed "Paul strongly recommends that matters like these be settled within the fellowship rather than taking them to be settled by unbelievers in the world, but only when no criminal activity has been found to have taken place", then there are such matters among their worker staff that should have been settled by them years ago. Starting with several known offending workers on staff in the eastern states of Australia. They know too well who they are! Sadly, the plight of women and underage women in India is not that great. For hundreds of years child marriage was acceptable and practiced regularly. Then they technically outlawed it but it isn’t enforced well. Women are not traditionally treated well and respected. Their worth is often tied to their husbands. It was practiced for hundreds of years that widows would be put to death. They outlawed that but in some places they still do it.
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Post by Pragmatic on Jun 26, 2024 15:40:10 GMT -5
Here is an Exit letter published in October 2023 from India: October 30th, 2023
To all overseers, workers, and friends, We have loved the ministry. Even revered it. It has been an unshakeable part of our testimony. We have been part of this fellowship for over 50 years. We have raised 3 children in India, who now live here in the US, with 8 (and growing) grandchildren. Until this year we couldn’t have imagined any other desire than seeing them all attending meetings. We have opened up our home and our hearts to workers in India, the US, and all over the world. We are, however, deeply disappointed with our ministry and church, both in India and the US. It started with the handling of Child Sexual Abuse and Sexual Abuse. We are appalled at senior leaders not addressing these issues appropriately worldwide. What is more shocking though is the ministry's behavior of continuous denial, cover-up, and apathy towards victims. We find their lack of integrity very distasteful, dishonest, and unchristian. This stance is not only very arrogant, but utterly contemptuous of the entire congregation that they are supposed to shepherd. The assumption that the people will bear abuse and humiliation just to have a place in this fellowship is indicative of their deep contempt. We have experienced this firsthand in India in recent months when numerous credible allegations have been systematically silenced, overlooked, and discredited. We see this here in the US too from all that has and continues to come out. To the ministry: - The call is divine, but you are not divine. The message is from God, but you are not God. You are men and women with human weaknesses, and you need to acknowledge it. - Jesus came to do away with the Levitical priesthood and its place. God ordained the sacrifice of His Son, did away with the continuous sacrifice of the sinner, and established His Son as the only mediator. By positioning the ministry between God and Church, you have brought back that order. You decide who should be heard, who should approach the altar, who is worthy of fellowship and who is against the Way simply because they brought your faults to light..God never intended for this to be the role of the ministry. - Christ, though innocent, took on the cross willingly to fit into His Father's plan. Your reluctance and refusal to face rightful accountability, let alone pay any price, defies that Christlike spirit. And so, we are saddened but resolved. We cannot believe in or follow this ministry anymore (“…to him that knoweth to do good and doeth it not, to him it is sin”). Following the ministry anymore threatens our own salvation. We must follow Jesus. We have not lost our faith in Jesus. We have lost our faith in this ministry that is no longer connected to Him. As such, we no longer wish to be associated with this ministry and will not be attending meetings anymore. We continue to be followers of Jesus, practice our Christian faith, and seek fellowship with like minded believers. Hema and Mohan
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Post by snow on Jun 26, 2024 15:56:59 GMT -5
Here is an Exit letter published in October 2023 from India: October 30th, 2023 To all overseers, workers, and friends, We have loved the ministry. Even revered it. It has been an unshakeable part of our testimony. We have been part of this fellowship for over 50 years. We have raised 3 children in India, who now live here in the US, with 8 (and growing) grandchildren. Until this year we couldn’t have imagined any other desire than seeing them all attending meetings. We have opened up our home and our hearts to workers in India, the US, and all over the world. We are, however, deeply disappointed with our ministry and church, both in India and the US. It started with the handling of Child Sexual Abuse and Sexual Abuse. We are appalled at senior leaders not addressing these issues appropriately worldwide. What is more shocking though is the ministry's behavior of continuous denial, cover-up, and apathy towards victims. We find their lack of integrity very distasteful, dishonest, and unchristian. This stance is not only very arrogant, but utterly contemptuous of the entire congregation that they are supposed to shepherd. The assumption that the people will bear abuse and humiliation just to have a place in this fellowship is indicative of their deep contempt. We have experienced this firsthand in India in recent months when numerous credible allegations have been systematically silenced, overlooked, and discredited. We see this here in the US too from all that has and continues to come out. To the ministry: - The call is divine, but you are not divine. The message is from God, but you are not God. You are men and women with human weaknesses, and you need to acknowledge it. - Jesus came to do away with the Levitical priesthood and its place. God ordained the sacrifice of His Son, did away with the continuous sacrifice of the sinner, and established His Son as the only mediator. By positioning the ministry between God and Church, you have brought back that order. You decide who should be heard, who should approach the altar, who is worthy of fellowship and who is against the Way simply because they brought your faults to light..God never intended for this to be the role of the ministry. - Christ, though innocent, took on the cross willingly to fit into His Father's plan. Your reluctance and refusal to face rightful accountability, let alone pay any price, defies that Christlike spirit. And so, we are saddened but resolved. We cannot believe in or follow this ministry anymore (“…to him that knoweth to do good and doeth it not, to him it is sin”). Following the ministry anymore threatens our own salvation. We must follow Jesus. We have not lost our faith in Jesus. We have lost our faith in this ministry that is no longer connected to Him. As such, we no longer wish to be associated with this ministry and will not be attending meetings anymore. We continue to be followers of Jesus, practice our Christian faith, and seek fellowship with like minded believers. Hema and Mohan Well written. I thought the last paragraph was interesting. Part of the whole problem is that they put so much emphasis on the system and workers and not just seeing it as another way another church. But the isolation of members and their belief that it's their only way to salvation makes the world seem scary and evil. Those who feel that way about the 'world' are never likely going to be able to walk away no matter what the workers do or more accurately put, don't do.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jun 27, 2024 1:10:56 GMT -5
Many of you will know of workers and may even know some personally who have gone to India. And other places too such as Sri Lanka, Nigeria, Vietnam and many more. The question now crosses my mind is why were they sent there? Was a cover up going on?
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 27, 2024 4:48:53 GMT -5
Many of you will know of workers and may even know some personally who have gone to India. And other places too such as Sri Lanka, Nigeria, Vietnam and many more. The question now crosses my mind is why were they sent there? Was a cover up going on? They had a nerve problem.
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Post by bfvernon on Jun 27, 2024 6:27:23 GMT -5
And it’s called a pedophile ring.
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Post by SharonArnold on Jun 28, 2024 16:20:31 GMT -5
Many of you will know of workers and may even know some personally who have gone to India. And other places too such as Sri Lanka, Nigeria, Vietnam and many more. The question now crosses my mind is why were they sent there? Was a cover up going on? They had a nerve problem. Yeah. As a kid, I used to wonder what a “nerve” was. As an adult, I still wonder what a “nerve” really is. (Though it is becoming increasingly apparent.)
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Post by SharonArnold on Jun 28, 2024 16:22:39 GMT -5
And it’s called a pedophile ring. I now know this is true. Though there are still parts of me that resist this reality.
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Post by bfvernon on Jun 28, 2024 20:06:14 GMT -5
Actually, it’s an international pedophile ring
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 28, 2024 20:24:11 GMT -5
Actually, it’s an international pedophile ring Indeed. I once heard an ex-worker say in a meeting that the "geographic solution to a problem" is really NOT the right one. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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