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Post by tulip2 on May 26, 2024 20:23:47 GMT -5
A corporate apology after a commission of enquiry, government style? This, to me, smacks of ticking the CSA apology box, and moving on. Too bad about how this all has affected everyone else. No acknowledgement of the lies told, and no apology to Graham Thompson who is owed one. ausnzinfo.comIs this the first 'official' website operated by workers for the Friends and Workers 2x2 church? When did it first appear online? How did you find out about it Pragmatic? Who is the administrator of the website? Nowhere (that I could find) was there any background or explanation of who this 'fellowship' (church group) is or of their beginnings (William Irvine). Not even in the 'About' link. Seems there's still way too much need for secrecy, sadly.
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Post by Pragmatic on May 26, 2024 20:40:28 GMT -5
There is a commission of anonymous people who report and pass on recommendations to the Aus and NZ overseers regarding CSA. CSA is their only brief, so other topics are outside their project scope. The situation now is that, CSA has uncovered so much more that needs to be addressed. And people are distressed. I can't divulge my source, but since my posting, Wayne Dean has sent it out to the workers, who have passed it on to elders for distribution. Max Goldsack has added a header and forwarded it on here in our region. Our elder forwarded it straight away.
I don't know who the administrator is. The site was registered one month ago.
The site does say it is for CSA only. But as Mike Oxlong, aka Ted Harris, says, "stay off the Internet, and don't forget to hit Like and Subscribe" ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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Post by tulip2 on May 26, 2024 21:54:03 GMT -5
There is a commission of anonymous people who report and pass on recommendations to the Aus and NZ overseers regarding CSA. CSA is their only brief, so other topics are outside their project scope. The situation now is that, CSA has uncovered so much more that needs to be addressed. And people are distressed. I can't divulge my source, but since my posting, Wayne Dean has sent it out to the workers, who have passed it on to elders for distribution. Max Goldsack has added a header and forwarded it on here in our region. Our elder forwarded it straight away. I don't know who the administrator is. The site was registered one month ago.
The site does say it is for CSA only. But as Mike Oxlong, aka Ted Harris, says, "stay off the Internet, and don't forget to hit Like and Subscribe" ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) Thanks Pragmatic. Seems this 'official' website is brand new, not yet widely known about or disseminated within the fellowship. In Australia, there have been rumours about the identities of the faceless "16 wise advisors". This is what their website says: Who are they? An advisory group has been formed to provide advice to the ministry, focusing on child safety and survivor support drawing on personal and professional experience, sourcing assistance from specialist experts, external resources and professional bodies as required.
All members of the advisory group are part of our fellowship and consist of survivors, those who have supported survivors, workers, elders, elder’s wives and friends.That's it. When that advisory group was first announced here, it was to be hoped that it included fellowship members who had shown the fortitude to expose perpetrators and stand for victims of CSA at a time when the ministry strongly opposed that stance. In general, such a principled position resulted in those individuals being ostracised especially by the workers themselves. But if as hoped the advisory group included such strongly principled people, why would they insist on secrecy? The concern would be if this secret "advisory group" includes sycophants or those "super saints" who have curried favour by shamelessly supporting workers in their previous incarnation where supporters of victims were demonized. All well & good that these same workers have largely had an epiphany, but what was behind it - God's moral truth in Christ, or fear of being held accountable by some government commission of enquiry?
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Post by Pragmatic on May 27, 2024 0:11:23 GMT -5
Quote "All well & good that these same workers have largely had an epiphany, but what was behind it - God's moral truth in Christ, or fear of being held accountable by some government commission of enquiry?"
If there had been no Bruergate, and the subsequent fallout. Would all this have happened, or would we be where we were when Bruer was a respected overseer preaching about Lighthouses?
The amount of action, or lack thereof, pre-Bruergate is the answer in my opinion
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Post by BobWilliston on May 27, 2024 1:30:17 GMT -5
Quote "All well & good that these same workers have largely had an epiphany, but what was behind it - God's moral truth in Christ, or fear of being held accountable by some government commission of enquiry?" If there had been no Bruergate, and the subsequent fallout. Would all this have happened, or would we be where we were when Bruer was a respected overseer preaching about Lighthouses? The amount of action, or lack thereof, pre-Bruergate is the answer in my opinion Well, maybe this is pre=bruer style. We're going to do this, but we're not going to say it's a clerical exercise - - you know, like "the classy new convention shed" is some owner's public charge. But like gospel meetings -- there is public notice. That was a try.....
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Post by BobWilliston on May 27, 2024 1:31:50 GMT -5
Of course, when you are called before caesar, you have to own the deed.
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Post by Pragmatic on May 27, 2024 4:26:26 GMT -5
My blood is boiling on this website, for a number of reasons. I will enumerate my concerns over the next few days, and provide feedback to the group. I doubt they'll listen
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Post by menatwork on May 27, 2024 5:52:50 GMT -5
The workers are hiding behind an anonymous “advisory group” that we don’t know even exists or if it does who is on it. You can be sure that if this group exists it will be comprised of people who support the workers and agree with what they are doing. They will certainly not be critical of how the workers are handling CSA and will not be supportive of victims/survivors.
When the case of the now deceased worker Ernie Barry broke in 2010 a group of well intentioned friends tried to help the then overseer with suggested guidelines on how to deal with CSA. This was ignored and people threatened for trying to help and support victims. The said overseer even arranged for Barry to be defended in court! The main objective was to keep things secret and protect the group from adverse publicity.
We all waited for the overseer to offer a sincere public apology at the following convention, but all was quiet as if nothing happened. It was a perfect opportunity to offer sincere repentance that a holy God requires. I fear that nothing has been learned over the years and that the workers will only do what they are forced to do when the heat is on them from the authorities.
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Post by menatwork on May 27, 2024 6:18:42 GMT -5
My blood is boiling on this website, for a number of reasons. I will enumerate my concerns over the next few days, and provide feedback to the group. I doubt they'll listen You can be sure they won’t listen to anyone who offers constructive criticism of the way they are doing things. It will be seen as undermining their authority leading to a lack of control of the narrative, which they are desperate to maintain at all costs. As Jack Nicholson famously said “You can’t handle the truth”
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Post by menatwork on May 27, 2024 6:51:18 GMT -5
A corporate apology after a commission of enquiry, government style? This, to me, smacks of ticking the CSA apology box, and moving on. Too bad about how this all has affected everyone else. No acknowledgement of the lies told, and no apology to Graham Thompson who is owed one. ausnzinfo.comIs this the first 'official' website operated by workers for the Friends and Workers 2x2 church? When did it first appear online? How did you find out about it Pragmatic? Who is the administrator of the website? Nowhere (that I could find) was there any background or explanation of who this 'fellowship' (church group) is or of their beginnings (William Irvine). Not even in the 'About' link. Seems there's still way too much need for secrecy, sadly. Anyone accessing this website would not know what group it is referring to unless they were a 2x2!! Talk about secrecy…….I guess it is difficult to put a name to the website when it has been produced by “the church without a name.” Wired stuff😳
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Post by tulip2 on May 27, 2024 18:00:26 GMT -5
Quote "All well & good that these same workers have largely had an epiphany, but what was behind it - God's moral truth in Christ, or fear of being held accountable by some government commission of enquiry?" If there had been no Bruergate, and the subsequent fallout. Would all this have happened, or would we be where we were when Bruer was a respected overseer preaching about Lighthouses? The amount of action, or lack thereof, pre-Bruergate is the answer in my opinion Reminding us of the pivotal role of Dean Bruer in all this raises the question - were some of the 16 faceless advisors that the workers have chosen among those who paid public tribute to Bruer in the "roll of shame" before his exposure? professing.proboards.com/thread/31859/bruer-extent-deception-public-tributesIf so, understandable that the workers would want to keep their identities secret. So much for transparency and the credibility that would come with it.
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Post by tulip2 on May 27, 2024 18:05:49 GMT -5
You are right that Graham Thompson deserves an apology. However, it needs to be given in a different way than via this website which focuses on CSA. A reminder, Graham felt compelled to leave the ministry but it was for issues/reasons far far broader than CSA. A personal apology still needs to be made to Graham that covers the whole shebang. Yes, but I'm afraid it won't happen.
I will to an SEO diagnosis on the site over the next few days to work out how it can be found. I suspect it designed to not be found, and relies on it's presence being passed via messaging or email. I'm not seeing certain keywords that make it visible to someone searching. The was a guy on her, stevenz (I know who he is, but won't advertise it) who shared all the correspondence between Graham and the powers that be. It would have made a web site on it's own! I am wondering if the timing of this was to coincide with Special meetings so that they can avoid saying anything, which would be the ideal forum. The web site smacks of lawyers and things being said in such a way as to not invite a class action.
"The web site smacks of lawyers and things being said in such a way as to not invite a class action." There's a professing junior lawyer in the eastern states, known advisor to the workers on CSA and related issues. Being kept busier than ever these days, one suspects! Anyway it's rumoured this "little lawyer" is one of the chosen 16.
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Post by Pragmatic on May 27, 2024 18:45:50 GMT -5
Yes, but I'm afraid it won't happen.
I will to an SEO diagnosis on the site over the next few days to work out how it can be found. I suspect it designed to not be found, and relies on it's presence being passed via messaging or email. I'm not seeing certain keywords that make it visible to someone searching. The was a guy on her, stevenz (I know who he is, but won't advertise it) who shared all the correspondence between Graham and the powers that be. It would have made a web site on it's own! I am wondering if the timing of this was to coincide with Special meetings so that they can avoid saying anything, which would be the ideal forum. The web site smacks of lawyers and things being said in such a way as to not invite a class action.
"The web site smacks of lawyers and things being said in such a way as to not invite a class action." There's a professing junior lawyer in the eastern states, known advisor to the workers on CSA and related issues. Being kept busier than ever these days, one suspects! Anyway it's rumoured this "little lawyer" is one of the chosen 16. When I was a kid, and briefly thought about Law, the workers, my parents, grandmother were all against it. Fiercely so. I wasn't overly serious about it, so dropped the idea. But how "Truth never changes"! And just as they now depend on being 'lawyered up', they have a website, after people being warned about the dangers of the 'World Wide Web'. Apparently it spoke of, The World, Wideness as opposed to the Narrow Way, and the Web of confusion.....seriously, I heard our nutty overseer at the time, (NM) say it!
I have heard from victims, victim's parents, and upset church members about the web site....they are all fuming and victims are triggered. It poses more questions than answers, and will be the final nail in the church coffin for some.
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